Need Help Ap"s purchasing from the Mint and Rules
1tommy
Posts: 3,019 ✭✭✭✭✭
Ok Question. We all know the Ap's purchase bullion products directly from the U.S. Mint. Now Is It Fair that they can send out there allotment to get a Numeric Grade put on some and a B.U on others ? Does this not allow them to keep the 69's for themselves and send out the rest to us? Now I understand that this has been going on for awhile. But recently you have one of these companys that sold raw sets to some while others got sets without any 69dm taking those and selling them directly on ebay. It Seems to me if they are allowed to send them in and keep the best ones that can't be a good thing for the rest of us......I just really believe they should not beable to send in any of these for a numeric grade. So the question is should they be allowed to have these graded before the public can get them? thanks 
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I used to be famous now I just collect coins.
Link to My Registry Set.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-specialty-sets/washington-quarters-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1932-1964/publishedset/78469
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I used to be famous now I just collect coins.
Link to My Registry Set.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-specialty-sets/washington-quarters-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1932-1964/publishedset/78469
Varieties Are The Spice Of LIFE and Thanks to Those who teach us what to search For.
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Comments
Then again what if they just opened the mint tubes that they got them in and sent you 5 beat up turds that look like they were actually used in a hockey game? Would you want to return them? What if they refused to accept returns? I can see where you are coming from, but maybe it isn't quite as bad as you think.
<< <i>When they buy the product, it is theirs to do with as they please, just as you could do with product you purchase. Freedom is great isn't it?? Cheers, RickO >>
Apparently they can do everything, but overcharge for them?
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<< <i>When they buy the product, it is theirs to do with as they please, just as you could do with product you purchase. Freedom is great isn't it?? Cheers, RickO >>
Apparently they can do everything, but overcharge for them? >>
Not so, they can also overcharge, but why would they? That's like cutting of your nose to spite your face. 9 AP's ordered the 2011 pucks, and the price they charge will be dictated by the supply & demand. It's obvious there is ample supply, but I'm not sure if the demand is there.
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<< <i>When they buy the product, it is theirs to do with as they please, just as you could do with product you purchase. Freedom is great isn't it?? Cheers, RickO >>
Apparently they can do everything, but overcharge for them? >>
Not so, they can also overcharge, but why would they? That's like cutting of your nose to spite your face. 9 AP's ordered the 2011 pucks, and the price they charge will be dictated by the supply & demand. It's obvious there is ample supply, but I'm not sure if the demand is there. >>
How many of them got away with trying to whack us $1395 or more for the first set late last year? The reason some were so late because after they found out they couldn't make a killing they didn't want to mess with them. They ended up ripping people on shipping on top of it.
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<< <i>When they buy the product, it is theirs to do with as they please, just as you could do with product you purchase. Freedom is great isn't it?? Cheers, RickO >>
Apparently they can do everything, but overcharge for them? >>
Not so, they can also overcharge, but why would they? That's like cutting of your nose to spite your face. 9 AP's ordered the 2011 pucks, and the price they charge will be dictated by the supply & demand. It's obvious there is ample supply, but I'm not sure if the demand is there. >>
How many of them got away with trying to whack us $1395 or more for the first set late last year? The reason some were so late because after they found out they couldn't make a killing they didn't want to mess with them. They ended up ripping people on shipping on top of it. >>
What has that got to do with the cost of rice? Last year (2010), the Mint implemented guidelines to the AP's because of low production. For 2011, all those restrictions have been removed. In theory, the AP's can do what they want, just as they do with the bullion ASE's, AGE's & APE's, but as I said previously, why would they. To much competition. Time for you to wake up & smell reality. BTW, where is your outrage of what the Mint is now charging for the 2010 version? $280 for a 5 oz silver sand blasted bullion round.
I used to be famous now I just collect coins.
Link to My Registry Set.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-specialty-sets/washington-quarters-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1932-1964/publishedset/78469
Varieties Are The Spice Of LIFE and Thanks to Those who teach us what to search For.
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<< <i>
<< <i>When they buy the product, it is theirs to do with as they please, just as you could do with product you purchase. Freedom is great isn't it?? Cheers, RickO >>
Apparently they can do everything, but overcharge for them? >>
Not so, they can also overcharge, but why would they? That's like cutting of your nose to spite your face. 9 AP's ordered the 2011 pucks, and the price they charge will be dictated by the supply & demand. It's obvious there is ample supply, but I'm not sure if the demand is there. >>
How many of them got away with trying to whack us $1395 or more for the first set late last year? The reason some were so late because after they found out they couldn't make a killing they didn't want to mess with them. They ended up ripping people on shipping on top of it. >>
What has that got to do with the cost of rice? Last year (2010), the Mint implemented guidelines to the AP's because of low production. For 2011, all those restrictions have been removed. In theory, the AP's can do what they want, just as they do with the bullion ASE's, AGE's & APE's, but as I said previously, why would they. To much competition. Time for you to wake up & smell reality. >>
If you had been paying attention you would have noticed that the guidelines were only issued because someone complained to someone else at the mint. Also limits were one per household and some are still trying to figure how some others apparently had 100s of them. I noticed so far that the 2011s have been comparably priced, but I don't know for a fact if last year's guidelines are still in effect or it is due to competition. Do you have a verifiable source for which it one it is?
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<< <i>When they buy the product, it is theirs to do with as they please, just as you could do with product you purchase. Freedom is great isn't it?? Cheers, RickO >>
Apparently they can do everything, but overcharge for them? >>
Not so, they can also overcharge, but why would they? That's like cutting of your nose to spite your face. 9 AP's ordered the 2011 pucks, and the price they charge will be dictated by the supply & demand. It's obvious there is ample supply, but I'm not sure if the demand is there. >>
How many of them got away with trying to whack us $1395 or more for the first set late last year? The reason some were so late because after they found out they couldn't make a killing they didn't want to mess with them. They ended up ripping people on shipping on top of it. >>
What has that got to do with the cost of rice? Last year (2010), the Mint implemented guidelines to the AP's because of low production. For 2011, all those restrictions have been removed. In theory, the AP's can do what they want, just as they do with the bullion ASE's, AGE's & APE's, but as I said previously, why would they. To much competition. Time for you to wake up & smell reality. >>
If you had been paying attention you would have noticed that the guidelines were only issued because someone complained to someone else at the mint. Also limits were one per household and some are still trying to figure how some others apparently had 100s of them. I noticed so far that the 2011s have been comparably priced, but I don't know for a fact if last year's guidelines are still in effect or it is due to competition. Do you have a verifiable source for which it one it is? >>
Guide lines that were implemented for the 2010 pucks were removed for the 2011 pucks. It's been published numerous times in N.N. & C.W. & on the MInts website.
You'd have a hard time saying it is unfair to grade some and sell the MS70 coins or whatever if there is adequate supply of the ungraded bullion and with the fact that many non-APs can score MS70s coins on what they buy wholesale from the APs.
Now, when it comes to the limited supply 2010 ATBs, grading them isn't as much of an issue as the case where they have them graded and they keep the good ones for themselves. All were supposed to be sold to the public, graded or not.
I also think it is an issue if an AP were to grade them then charge an substantial amount over issue price for them in graded holders. They were supposed to be sold as bullion at a bullion price and not as numismatic products with a numismatic price.
The big question is if any AP was holding back the good 2010 ones for themselves.
Now, after 2010, if the supply is large enough, I do not see any issue with an AP getting theirs graded and selling them as special numismatic products as long as there is enough supply in the market for bullion buyers, and if the APs are not "cornering the market" on high graded coins. No one has been claiming there is a cornered market so far, so it's not an issue with me.
Silver AP Requirements
Nothing prevents them from cherry picking.
II.
PURPOSE
The United States Mint is interested in ensuring that the coins minted and issued under its American Eagle and America the Beautiful Silver Bullion Coin Programs are distributed effectively and efficiently and in a manner that ensures that the bullion coins are competitive with bullion products produced by other international mints. To accomplish this goal, the United States Mint seeks to utilize private sector distribution channels that ensure that the coins are:
A. As widely available to the public as possible;
B. Bought and sold at prices/premiums that are in line with other similar silver bullion coin products in the marketplace; and
C. Bought and sold in a manner that ensures relatively low transaction costs.
Due in part to the commodity-like, investment nature of these coins characterized by constantly fluctuating precious metal prices, the United States Mint has determined that the most effective and efficient means for bullion coin distribution is through the use of the well-established silver bullion coin distribution network in the private sector. This network consists of hundreds of coin and precious metals dealers, participating banks, brokerage companies and other financial intermediaries.
America the Beautiful Silver Bullion Coins Program
The America the Beautiful Silver Bullion Coins are sold in bulk quantities to business firms approved by the United States Mint which have met the qualifying criteria discussed in Section V below. Approved firms can purchase these coins in the following quantities:
- A minimum of 10,000 ounces (2,000 coins) of silver. Purchases above the minimum must be in 500-ounce (100-coin) increments, the standard packaged quantity.
- However, the United States Mint reserves the right to sell less thanthe minimum quantity, impose a maximum order quantity and suspend all sales at any time as circumstances warrant.
The America the Beautiful Silver Bullion Coins are packaged in semi-clear plastic tubes
(10 five-ounce coins to a tube). The tubes are then placed in vacuum-formed inserts in sealed molded plastic shipping containers. The tops of the plastic tubes and the shipping containers are imprinted with the United States Mint seal.
The price of the America the Beautiful Silver Bullion Coin is based on the silver content plus a fixed premium per ounce. The premium for this coin will be established in 2010 prior to the launch of this program and is subject to change. United States Mint bullion coin premium changes are posted in the Federal Register.
The pricing of the coins, based on their precious metal content, is established as the London Silver Fix on the first business day following the day of the order, excluding federal government holidays. The set premium charged covers all of the United States Mint’s manufacturing, marketing and distribution expenses. The United States Mint reserves the right to alter the pricing mechanisms and vary the premium charged for the America the Beautiful Silver Bullion Coins as circumstances dictate. Any such change will not affect orders accepted prior to the announced change.
Fax orders are received by the United States Mint, Bullion Coin Operations Branch, until
3:00 p.m. ET, Monday through Friday, excluding federal government holidays. Once the order is confirmed in writing by the United States Mint, an order cannot be changed or cancelled by the purchaser. All sales are final.
Payment for silver bullion coins is accepted only in U.S. dollars by wire transfer of funds on the second business day (standard “two-day value”) following the day of the London Fixing used in determining the price of the order.
Purchased coins are authorized for release after receipt of payment is confirmed. All United States Mint silver bullion coins must be picked up freight-on-board (F.O.B) at the United States Mint at West Point (West Point, New York).
The United States Mint will not repurchase its silver bullion coins.
This line, in effect, would or should preclude APs from selling numismatically graded bullion coins at numismatic prices. (at least for 2010) This year, there seems to be an adequate supply such that both can be sold without disruptions to the bullion market.
I believe holding the better grades for preferred customers is breaking the spirit of a fair and wide sale and the Mint intentions, but I think that could be contested.
Keep in mind that I'm referencing the 2010s. The 2011s+ are a different animal.
I have been carrying this guilt since 2009. If you bought one from me for twice what I paid for it (and then sold it later for twice what you paid for it), I apologize. Thank you for the opportunity to get this off my chest. I feel much better now.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>So the question is should they be allowed to have these graded before the public can get them? >>
Sure. I don't have a problem with it.
<< <i>There is nothing in the rules that says the 2010 bullion cannot be graded. >>
C. Bought and sold in a manner that ensures relatively low transaction costs.
This line, in effect, would or should preclude APs from selling numismatically graded bullion coins at numismatic prices. (at least for 2010) This year, there seems to be an adequate supply such that both can be sold without disruptions to the bullion market.
<< <i>I confess. I bought many, many 2008 W Unc. gold eagles (all sizes) from the mint. I sent the ones that looked 70 to NGC and PCGS for grading. I was so greedy that I even broke up four-coin sets to get more 70s. Sold the slabbed 70s to the general public for an outrageous price. Sold the raw ones for a lower price.
I have been carrying this guilt since 2009. If you bought one from me for twice what I paid for it (and then sold it later for twice what you paid for it), I apologize. Thank you for the opportunity to get this off my chest. I feel much better now. >>
C. Bought and sold in a manner that ensures relatively low transaction costs.
This line, in effect, would or should preclude APs from selling bullion coins at numismatic prices.