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Does toning put a cap on the grade of a coin?

thekramers5thekramers5 Posts: 41
in U.S. Coin Forum
I'm new to all of this from a grading standpoint, and know that toning can make a coin more desirable in many instances. But does toning to the coin below make the possible grade lower than if it had no toning? For example, it couldn't grade higher than MS 67 because of the toning?

Sorry for the size of the pictures ... I just figured out how to take meaningful, clear pictures as opposed to scans!

Thanks!

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Comments

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,843 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Grading Mint State coins to an exact grade between MS or PR-60 to 64 from photos is really hard and involves some guess work. Once you get to the “super” grades of MS or PR-66 to 70 it is impossible.

    Given the era, finding a Proof 1953 quarter that grades higher than PR-67 would be very difficult. The production methods at the time plus the mint packaging and numismatic storage systems make it hard for all of the elements to come together to location a coin that grades higher than PR-67 or even PR-66.

    As for toning issue some light toning would not preclude PR-68 or 69 IMO, but I’ve never seen a PR-69 or 70 coin that had toning. Of course the only examples I’ve seen were very recent coins since I’m not a player in very high grade older Proof pieces.

    I might add the really attractive toning might add a point for a coin in the PR-65 or 66 range. At least that seems to have been the case with a few coins I've seen.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,885 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I might add the really attractive toning might add a point for a coin in the PR-65 or 66 range. >>



    Is it because toning helps to hide hairlines that are a grading factor on proofs?

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  • Coins911Coins911 Posts: 538
    No I have toned coins graded pr68 and PR69
  • keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,548 ✭✭✭✭✭
    In many cases the reverse seems to be true. Very few Merc Dimes have been graded higher than 67...most of the ones higher are quite heavily toned....such as the 1939-D Merc Dimes.
    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
    Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners. :smile:
  • PQueuePQueue Posts: 901 ✭✭✭
    Heavy toning on 19th century silver can hold down the grade.
  • thekramers5thekramers5 Posts: 41
    Thanks for all the thoughts...definitely helps out.

    Bill, the 1953 shown is a proof from a set that I got from my father that "appears" to be out of this world. None of the coins appear to have a single mark on them at all. There is also a 1954 and 1955 set in the same condition (actually, just 1c, 5c, 10c and 25c).
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Tarnished coins, in my (very well known) opinion, are much less desirable - and - again in my opinion, cause me to 'move on' to another coin. I simply will not purchase tarnished coins. Cheers, RickO
  • TheShampineCollectionTheShampineCollection Posts: 98
    Ditto- I've never liked toned coins personally. To each his own, I guess. I like lowball coins, so what do I know? When buying a high grade coin, the one that is blast white is vastly preferred by me over a coin that has toning in the same grade. Toning can be pretty, don't get me wrong. But in this guy's lowly, non-expert, semi-newbie opinion, toning should be a detractor, not an influence in a purchase of a high grade coin.
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,217 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ain't nuttin more boring than an all white set of silver coins. Attractive toning won't hold back the grade - attractive toning to PCGS that is. image
    Early Dollar Set
  • 19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,492 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Ain't nuttin more boring than an all white set of silver coins. Attractive toning won't hold back the grade - attractive toning to PCGS that is. image >>

    Attractive is a relative word though since what you find attractive, Ricko finds "distractive".

    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



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  • TheShampineCollectionTheShampineCollection Posts: 98


    << <i>Ain't nuttin more boring than an all white set of silver coins. Attractive toning won't hold back the grade - attractive toning to PCGS that is. image >>




    HUH? I thought "boring" and problem-free was the objective of any high-grade coin collection? So, you want action on your coins? Why not save a lot of money and collect scratched-up coinage, lots of action there. Why is a complete surface color change not a detractor to a coin's grade, yet the tinyest scratch is? I know why, (in my best Forest Gump voice) "Because colors is purdy". Not trying to be insulting, just razzing you toner enthusiasts, mostly. I understand the appeal, just don't agree, that's all.

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