2011 SF Giants thread: Title Defense Failed

digicat

40 man roster (via my rookie card collection)

The Rotation: Cain (AS), Lincecum (AS), Vogelsong (AS), Bumgarner, Surkamp


The Infield: Stewart (C), Huff (1b), Keppinger (2b), Cabrera (SS), Sandoval (3b) (AS)


The Outfield: Belt (LF), Torres (CF), Beltran (RF)


The Bullpen: Wilson (AS), Romo, Ramirez, Lopez, Mota, Casilla, Runzler (LHP), Joaquin (RHP), Zito (LHP), Edlefsen (RHP)



The Bench: Fontenot (IF), DeRosa (IF/OF), Whiteside (C), Ross (OF), Burrell (OF), Pill (1b/2b), Crawford (SS), Ford (OF), Gillaspie (3b), Christian (OF), H. Sanchez (C)





The 15 Day DL: J. Sanchez (LHP), Schierholtz (RF)


The 60 Day DL: Posey (C, out for season), F. Sanchez (2b, out for season), Affeldt (LHP, out for season)


Minor Leagues: Peguero (OF), Adrianza (IF)





(from April 1st)
So, dropping 0-2 to start a season isn't impressive. The Giants defense has been horrible. If routine plays get made, the Giants are 2-0.

Anyways, I was on vacation for a week, away from any real media access, so seeing that rookie slugger Brandon Belt made the team came as a shock to me. He's got a lot of promise, but I figured the Giants would let him fine-tune in AAA, not start 1st base on Opening Day!

But, he's looked good in his first 2 MLB games. If he keeps it up, it'll be interesting to see who gets taken off the roster and who gets benched when Ross gets back from the DL.

As a result of Belt's promotion, the Giants DFA'ed Travis Ishikawa, who was a 1st baseman project with a golden glove and a sketchy bat who never managed to pan out since being drafted 9 years ago. He got used in 2010 mostly as a pinch hitter and a late inning defensive replacement. He did make the 2009 Topps All Star Rookie team though.

57loaded

Aubrey makes right field "interesting".

The team will take some time sorting it out. DeRosa back should help.

Pitching looked for the most part fine. Zito, I guess will always have early game jitters

digicat

Runzler didn't do much for his case to stay in the bullpen with last night's outing. It's my guess that since he has options left, he'll be heading to Fresno once Wilson comes back.

As for Ross, I'm really curious to see what short of shuffling around gets done.

Since they probably won't release Aaron Rowand, I suspect that the only 2 moves they could possibly make would be:

1) DFA/Trade Nate Schierholtz. Ross gets his RF job back, Huff moves to LF, and Burrell goes to the bench.
2) Send Brandon Belt to AAA Fresno. Huff goes back to 1b, Ross starts in RF, and Schierholtz continues as the late-inning defensive specialist, pushing Ross over to LF when he comes in.

digicat

The Giants are fielding like a little-league team right now. 1-4. Pathetic.

digicat

Well, Brian Wilson and Santiago Casilla are trading places, with Wilson getting activated and Casilla going to the DL with a sore elbow.

Now that Wilson's back, the Giants can start winning.

larryallen73

Incredible pitchers and a mediocre NL west will keep your boys in the race until the end. I just hope my Dodgers keep pace, through the season, so it's at least a two team race. Long way to go....

digicat

Nice thumping of the Padres tonight. The Pads owned the Giants last year, so seeing Lincecum and the Giants trash the Pads at Petco Park is always nice.

One of the Giants blogger sites I like to read had this headline: "Giants ration poorly, score season's worth of runs against Padres in one game"

digicat

Giants blow the lead in the 9th, then manage to win it in the 12th.

Wilson still looks hurt.

ARAGH! Looks like the torture carries over to 2011!

digicat

Flag raising ceremony....

Brought a tear to my eye.

2010 belongs to the SF Giants, forever. Hopefully we can put a 2011 flag to go along with it!

CollectorAtWork

I think the Giants will be in it until the end, so I'm not too worried. Their pitching is just too good, and even Zito, as Radnich keeps saying on Sportstalk, if you just think of him as a 5th starter and try to forget his salary, he's not too bad. I think this year will be a lot like last year, and the Giants aren't going to run away with it. Likely, every game in Sept will be really important just to try to make the playoffs. Panda bear looks a lot better than last year, and heck even Rowand looks good so far. Batting will still be the major problem with the Giants (okay, maybe defense too), since this team will still need to grind out wins.

I think the first couple of months, Boche is going to have to see which players are batting the best. Right now, Belt is like another Ishikawa and not batting too well. I even read that he's taking practice in the outfield. I think that once Cody Ross is back, they'll move Huff to 1st, and Belt to the bench or the minors.

I don't know what to think of Pat the Bat these days. Horrible BA, but he's hitting HR's and taking key walks.

digicat

What a mess!

Barry Zito (LHP) goes down with a foot injury.
Ryan Vogelsong (RHP) got called up to replace him. He was impressive in spring training, and the Giants kept him in AAA to provide long-relief/emergency starting as necessary.
He's done well so far. Ironically, he first came up with the Giants and got traded in 2000 to the Pirates in the deal that landed Jason Schmidt.


Andres Torres (CF) goes down with foot injury!
Darren Ford (OF) got called up to provide speed off the bench and another OF option as Aaron Rowand takes over in CF.


Mark DeRosa (utility IF/OF) goes down with wrist injury (again)!
Manny Burriss (2B/SS) got called up to provide some depth at 2B and SS.


Pablo Sandoval (3B) goes down with a broken wrist and will be out for 6+ weeks!
Nightmare scenario here. Panda was the Giants best hitter, and one of the only guys hitting during this nasty offensive drought that the Giants have found themselves in. Ugh. With Tejada shifting over to 3B and Mike Fontenot getting starts at SS, Giants called up Ryan Rohlinger (3B) to provide some depth at 3B.

(Rohlinger has been bouncing between AAA and the Giants every year since 2008, but has yet to get a MLB baseball card.

digicat

I was really worried about Bumgarner after his first 4 games this season. He looked lost and was getting hit hard.

First 4 games: 0-3, 7.79 era, 2.019 WHIP
opposing batters: .357/.427/.500

However, something clicked, and in his last 5 games:
Last 5 games: 1-3, 1.60 era, 0.980 WHIP
opposing batters: .205/.254/.238

The kid's pitching like an ace, unfortunately the Giants aren't giving him much run support.

Last night he pitched into the 9th and was 1 out away from his first career shutout, then gave up a run and got yanked for Wilson (who didn't blow the game thanks to an awesome diving catch by Nate Schierholtz).


Ryan Vogelsong seems to be a great fill-in (or possible replacement) for Barry Zito. The Giants are 4-0 in his starts. Still, he came to the Giants with a 5.86 era in 315 ip in 6 seasons in the majors. Once upon a time, he was a prospect with the Giants who turned out to be a bust. Now, 10 years after getting traded, he's not sticking out like a sore thumb in SF's elite rotation.

57loaded

Digicat,

when is Zito scheduled to return and what happens?

Vogelsong deserves to stay on, right? I'd be disappointed if he was Barry's back-up (read long relief). This is Barry's last year on contract?

digicat

<< <i>when is Zito scheduled to return and what happens? >>


The Giants are taking their time with Zito. Apparently once he starts his rehab assignment in the minors, the clock starts ticking and he has to be activated within 30 days. Apparently the Giants can keep him in pre-rehab limbo as long as they want, within reason. So, he hasn't started rehab yet.



<< <i>This is Barry's last year on contract? >>


Sadly, no. Zito's under contract through 2013. He then has a 2014 $18 option / $7 buyout.



<< <i>Vogelsong deserves to stay on, right? >>


If he keeps pitching like he's pitching, oh yeah. He's been a dependable starter. Before the season started, he was seen as a solid long-relief option, so he's got value to the team. Unless he turns into Todd Wellemeyer overnight, I can't see the Giants getting rid of him.

The really tricky part about Zito coming back is that someone has to be taken off the active roster to make room for him.

Lets say they keep Vogelsong. Someone in the bullpen has to go away. The only guys who are getting blown up so far this year are Runzler and Affeldt, both lefties. Runzler has options, but Affeldt would have to be DFA'ed.

They'll probably option Runzler. That way they don't give someone up.

Then, it gets painful: Santiago Casilla's coming back soon, and then you have to make ANOTHER roster move to fit him in.

The problem there is that any move you make (outside of optioning Sergio Romo, which would be nuts) would require someone in the pen to get DFA'ed or cut into the bench (optioning Ford).

digicat

Stats can be a disturbing thing some times.

At this time last year, Barry Zito was 6-1, with a 2.15 era in 8 starts.

In his next 26 games, he went 3-13 with a 4.90 era.

Vogelsong's track record isn't good, but who knows, maybe he's becoming the next Billy Swift

digicat

Buster Posey got his ankle destroyed in a play at the plate and had to be carried off the field.



If he goes down for any length of time, I don't know how the Giants will stay competitive.




Ironically, the game was really exciting, with the Giants rallying in the bottom of the 9th from a 6-2 deficit to tie the score. The play at the plate resulted in the winning Marlin run scoring, and after watching Posey grab the ground screaming in agony, the Giants half of the inning went quickly for the loss as they all hurried into the clubhouse to check on Buster.

digicat

This was the 2nd Giant to leave the game with an injury. SS Mike Fontenot pulled his groin and had to be replaced.

On Sunday, outfielder and speedy pinch runner Darren Ford sprained his ankle scoring the winning run. He's day to day, with the hopes that he'll shake it off.

However, with 2 starters going down, it's likely that the 15 DL will be invoked on the 3 hurting guys to provide some depth.

Sad thing is, we have no real depth at catcher or on the right side of the infield.

Eli Whiteside, the backup catcher will now be the starting catcher. The pitchers are comfortable with him, so that's good. However, he's an 8th place hitter, and the only other catcher on the 40 man. They might need to 60-day DL DeRosa to make room and add someone from AAA, or perhaps ask unemployed free agent Bengie Molina to come back. Eli Whiteside knows our pitchers, but Bengie Molina groomed the staff into a dominant force. It almost makes sense to bring him back.

Unless Fontenot shakes off his groin pull, Manny Burriss is going to start at SS. He was on fire in the minors this year, and he hasn't sucked in his brief stint with the Giants so far this year. Unless he totally sucks, I can see the Giants keeping him out there until the Panda comes back.

With Fontenot hurt and Burriss starting, there are no more backup infielders on the 25 man. I suspect that Ryan Rohlinger will get called up. He's been playing SS and 3b in AAA, but isn't much of a factor with his bat.


Well, I can see the Giants making a hard run for Jose Reyes now.

WTCG

I'd be shocked if Posey isn't out for the rest of the year if not longer. Other than Whiteside there isn't any depth in the position. There's what's his name in (single) A ball but he's exactly that, still in "A" ball.

Unless there's a miracle in the works this season is effectively over.

Connecticoin

<< <i>

Buster Posey got his ankle destroyed in a play at the plate and had to be carried off the field.



If he goes down for any length of time, I don't know how the Giants will stay competitive.




Ironically, the game was really exciting, with the Giants rallying in the bottom of the 9th from a 6-2 deficit to tie the score. The play at the plate resulted in the winning Marlin run scoring, and after watching Posey grab the ground screaming in agony, the Giants half of the inning went quickly for the loss as they all hurried into the clubhouse to check on Buster. >>



MLB should do something about runners simply trying to knock the ball from the catcher without sliding, or we may see Joe Mauer in a wheelchair. What the runner did to Posey should result in a 10 game suspension.

digicat

<< <i>There's what's his name in (single) A ball but he's exactly that, still in "A" ball. >>



Tommy Joseph (San Jose) and Hector Sanchez are the Giants two young catchers down in A ball, but both of them are way, way, way off. Both have ugly strikeout/walk rates, which means they'd be utterly useless in the majors.

In all likelihood, the Giants will call up Chris Stewart, their AAA catcher. He was battling Whiteside for the backup catcher position in spring training and looked ok. Right now i think the Giants just want a warm body with catching experience.



<< <i>I'd be shocked if Posey isn't out for the rest of the year if not longer >>



We'll find out what the prognosis is later today. All I know is that when asked last night, team officials simply told reporters that Posey was going in for an MRI today. However, when asked, team officials said the situation did not "look good."

rbdjr1

The latest on Buster Posey’s condition, and where the Giants stand now

(credits: by Andrew Baggarly on May 26th, 2011 at 1:21 am

There were so many things to write about Wednesday night’s game, including one of the Giants’ greatest ninth-inning comebacks in recent memory. But really, only one thing matters.

Buster Posey is hurt. Significantly hurt.
First, the latest on his condition: Posey went for X-rays on his left ankle and he will have an MRI Thursday morning. The Giants did not release X-ray results and they won’t have anything new until Thursday morning, when they are expected to make multiple roster moves. (Mike Fontenot hurt his groin in the game, too, and Darren Ford probably was headed to the DL with an ankle injury, anyway.)

But a club official put it to me this way: “Not good.”

Broken?

“Not good.”

For now, all I can tell you is the Giants are very concerned, they are saying prayers, and they did not react harshly to Scott Cousins’ decision to go high and hard while scoring the tiebreaking run for Florida in the 12th inning. Giants manager Bruce Bochy said he hadn’t seen a replay, but “the catcher is so vulnerable there. That’s the toughest play in baseball, with a runner bearing down. You hate to see it. That’s our guy behind the plate.”

The tiebreaking run that Cousins scored in Florida’s 7-6 victory wasn’t the worst part. Not by any stretch.

Posey barely had time to turn after receiving Nate Schierholtz’s throw from right field on Emilio Bonifacio’s sacrifice fly. It was a terrible sight. The crowd had risen to its feet, expecting Schierholtz to make another golden throw after catching the ball in closer-than-medium right field.

Instead of a cheer, the fans let out a gasp.

Posey had dropped the throw just before Cousins, a USF alum, went shoulder-first into him. Posey’s left cleat appeared to stick in the infield clay while the rest of his body was hurled sideways. In still photos, you can see the foot pointed the wrong way. As Cousins reached back to touch the plate, Posey squirmed around in obvious agony. At first, I thought he might have fractured his leg. But it became clear his ankle was the problem, and with trainer Dave Groeschner and Mark Gruesbeck bracing Posey, he was carried off the field.

“It’s hard to speculate,” Bochy said. “It could be just a sprain. I don’t even want to guess. When I see him laying there, it’s not a good feeling for me, certainly not for him, for teammates, anybody. We’re hoping he’s OK.”

Freddy Sanchez said he looked at a replay, and even though Cousins appeared to have room to slide, Sanchez deemed it a clean play. He gave the impression that was the team-wide view, too.

“From looking at it, we think it was,” Sanchez said.

Schierholtz has a unique perspective, and not just because he made the throw from right field. Don’t forget, he received quite a bit of publicity — not all of it positive — when he collided with and injured Chinese catcher Yang Yang while scoring a run for the U.S. Olympic team in Beijing.

“It’s the 12th inning, it’s 6-6, teams are running out of players,” Schierholtz said. ‘I understand why he went. Any time you get contact on a baseball field, it’s not good. it’s really the last thing we need right now. To be honest, I was just hoping the wind was knocked out of him and that was all. I kind of knew it wasn’t.

“It’s part of the game. There’s really no right way to take a hit. Maybe you don’t have your feet under you the right way. There’s nothing you can do.”

Here are Cousins’ comments, courtesy of Joe Capozzi of the Palm Beach Post:

“I felt like he was blocking the dish. It’s the go-ahead run in the game. I’ve got to do whatever I can do to score. I know Schierholtz has an absolute cannon in the outfield. We made up our minds that we were gonna go when the ball was in the air and force the issue and make them make a perfect play.

“I couldn’t tell if Posey dropped the ball or not. All’s I saw was he looked like he secured it and turned towards me, I decided to try and knock the ball loose. … There was no lane to slide in. From the split-second I had ot make up my mind 10 feet away there was no lane. I went in the only way I thought was the right way to go in.

“I touched home. I knelt over him and was trying to see if he was all right because he’s a great guy and he’s a great player. I’m not trying to end anybody’s season or anything like that. I was just trying to play hard and score the go-ahead run. He didn’t say much. You could tell he was in pain. When the manager came out, he was pretty frustrated, I didn’t want to stick around and make things any tenser so I decide dot get out of there.

“It’s a baseball play. It’s part of the risk of being a catcher. We’re trying to win games also. I’m not going to concede the out by any means, not in that situation, not ever. I’m on this team to help do the little things to help this team win a game and if that means going hard and forcing the issue on the bases because I have speed, then that’s what I’m going to do.

“It was a great feeling to help this team win. I don’t care where we’re at. I don’t know if I’m going to be welcome home as much any more but it’s a baseball play. I feel bad for Buster Posey. I hope he’s OK. I’m going to send a message over there to him.”

–
So what do the Giants do now?

Well, for one, they should thank their lucky stars that Triple-A Fresno is not in Memphis or somewhere far-flung right now. Otherwise we might be seeing Single-A catcher Hector Sanchez on the roster tomorrow.

Remember, Eli Whiteside is the only other catcher currently on the 40-man roster. It’s pretty obvious that Chris Stewart, San Diego’s Triple-A catcher last year, will be joining the team. Stewart had an impressive spring both receiving and with the bat. That isn’t easy when you’re catching Lincecum, Cain and Sanchez for the first time.

A number of Twitter followers immediately asked about Bengie Molina. He hasn’t officially retired. But at least as of two months ago, he was not in any kind of shape to play, from what I understand. I have no idea if he’s been doing anything active. I’d call it a very long longshot, but even though I’m flying to Milwaukee tomorrow ahead of the team, I’ll see if I can learn anything new.

It’s worth pointing out that the Giants lost their cleanup hitter in addition to their catcher. I’m not sure if that will warrant calling up Brandon Belt in the hopes of adding the best possible bat. It’s not like Belt owns shinguards. But it’s a possibility. As I understand it, the Giants were thinking of purchasing the contract of either Tyler Graham or Travis Ishikawa to take Ford’s roster spot. With Fontenot day-to-day, though, they’ll need innings to cover on the infield. So even if Fontenot avoids the DL, that probably means we’ll see Ryan Rohlinger, despite his .170-something average at Fresno.

–
Carl Steward will be covering Thursday’s game while I travel to Milwaukee. So check back for his updates in a few hours.

If this teaches us anything, it’s that a baseball season can change in an instant. Just 24 hours earlier, the Colorado Rockies had a very bad day when they lost left-hander Jorge De La Rosa to a torn elbow ligament. But I have to think Posey is a much greater loss, considering he plays every day and impacts the game on so many levels.

I will leave with one more thought: Many people will react with anger that Bruce Bochy and Brian Sabean decided to keep Posey at catcher when so much is riding on his bat. I’d remind those people that the Giants don’t win the World Series last year without Posey’s defensive skills, game-calling acumen, diligence to the scouting reports and intelligence behind the plate. There is a reason he moved from shortstop to catcher at Florida State. It’s the position where he has the greatest value. He did not have the range or quickness to be a middle infielder in the big leagues. Plus he loves to catch. It’s his calling.

Some people can’t live without throwing blame around. But in baseball, sometimes things just happen.

Good and not good.

markj111

MLB should do something about runners simply trying to knock the ball from the catcher without sliding, or we may see Joe Mauer in a wheelchair. What the runner did to Posey should result in a 10 game suspension.


Suspension for what-playing baseball? Trying to win a game? That play happens all the time. The injury was unfortunate, but there was nothing dirty about the play.


MSNBC is reporting a broken leg and torn ligaments.

digicat

CSN Bay Area reporting that Posey suffered a broken leg and torn ligaments



Brandon Belt and Chris Stewart (AAA catcher) are on their way to SF from Fresno right now.


Belt's callup is an emergency callup. The Giants lost their best hitter. Now they're hoping that Belt can live up to his hype.

Chris Stewart is going to be the new backup catcher.


One thing's for sure, the opposing running game is back on against SF.

alnavman

Too bad about Posey, hopefully he will recover and get back to how he was producing......we went thru something similar last year here in Cleveland when Santana got hurt.....missed the rest of the year. He's back this year but still isn't producing offensively like he did last year....at least he has stayed healthy. Now if we could only get Grady and Pronk back in the lineup....

digicat

Word is that Fontenot is headed to the DL as well, joining Ford and Posey.


Today's call-ups are:

Brandon Belt (1b/of). He set the minors on fire in 2010, showed promise at the start of the season, then set AAA on fire after he was demoted. Hopefully he'll provide some thump in a thumpless offense.

Chris Stewart (C). The Giants' AAA catcher. His job is to back up Eli Whiteside and catch balls thrown to him by the pitcher. That's about it.

Brandon Crawford (SS). I didn't expect this. He's been considered the team's "shortstop of the future" for the last few years. Most projected that he'd reach the majors in 2012. He's jumping to the majors from the Giants high-A San Jose team. He's been doing well there, with a 1.005 OPS. Not sure what that'll translate into in the majors though. My guess is that his job is to backup Manny Burriss at SS and be a lefty-bat off the bench.


Crawford and Stewart were not on the 40 man roster, so my guess is that Posey and DeRosa are both getting put on the 60 day DL, freeing up their spot on the 40 man.

digicat

Hmm, I'm not sure what's going on. The Giants put Posey on the 15 day dl, not the 60.

Pablo Sandoval tweeted this morning that Posey was out for the year, but Bochey basically said that Pablo didn't know what he was talking about.

A few news sources reported that Posey suffered both a broken leg and ligament damage, but the Giants said that ligament damage has not been confirmed, and the "break" is a fracture.


Anyways, the 60 day dl wasn't invoked at all, and two guys were DFA'ed:

Henry Sosa: 25 year old RHP in AAA Fresno. He's been getting horrifically lit up this season, with 10.41 era and a 2.40 whip in 23.1 ip.
Ryan Rohlinger: 27 year old infielder in AAA Fresno. He's appeared in 46 games over the last 4 seasons in SF, coming in mostly as a backup infielder. He's been struggling as a hitter in the minors this year, going .174/.293/.331.

WTCG

Just like that Sunday in 1999 for the 49ers with Steve Young, yesterday will be one of those days rooted in infamy. Now half the team are in reality minor leaguers (and most suck even in the minors) while the other half can't hit. It's one discouraging combination.

One part of me says the Giants will not win more than 30 games from now until the end of the season.

digicat

<< <i>One part of me says the Giants will not win more than 30 games from now until the end of the season. >>



Tell that part to shut up!

I don't really have the "all is lost" mentality like I did last night when I watched that cursed event unfold on TV, but I certainly think it'll be harder.

The NL West sucks this year, but someone's going to "win" it. Now, whether or not the Giants can make noise in October w/o Posey is a different thing altogether.

Barndog

too bad for Posey and SF fans. I hope he heals well (better than Kendry Morales, let's say)

As for rules changes, if anything is done, the rules should have restrictions on what catchers can do and what a runner can do. Something along the lines of "catcher blocking the plate means runner is given the plate and other runners move up one base" and "running into a catcher who is not blocking the plate means runner is out and other runners must stay at current base"

Can't just be a one-way restriction.

WTCG

Today's game is most likely a preview of the rest of the Giants season. Depressing offense with no life and inability to score any runs. And you thought the A's offense was bad.

This morning I was hoping all isn't lost. After today's game I believe all is lost.

If the Giants can even win 30 games the rest of the way they'd beat expectations.

digicat

The mindset for a baserunner pretty much is "if the catcher has the ball, hit him hard enough so he drops it."

If they're going to change a rule, they should change it so that the "hit the catcher and make him drop it" part gets removed from the equation. Perhaps make it so that the runner is out upon moment of contact with the glove/ball if the catcher has possession of the ball.

digicat

Ryan Vogelsong just learned about what it means to be an SF Giant today.

8 ip, 1 run, loss


Even if Posey was in the lineup today, I doubt it'd have mattered.


Well, this next month will be a little experiment. Lets see what Brandon Belt can do, and when Panda gets back from the DL next month, we'll see what happens.

digicat

Giants trainer Dave Groeschner said in an interview today, about Posey's injury: "Yeah, we’ve seen this stuff before. We’ve had other guys throughout our system, catchers included, who’ve returned no problem."

8+ weeks is the typical recovery time for this sort of injury, then he gets to start rehab. If everything works out well, we might see him back as early as August.

Barndog

<< <i>

<< <i>too bad for Posey and SF fans. I hope he heals well (better than Kendry Morales, let's say)

As for rules changes, if anything is done, the rules should have restrictions on what catchers can do and what a runner can do. Something along the lines of "catcher blocking the plate means runner is given the plate and other runners move up one base" and "running into a catcher who is not blocking the plate means runner is out and other runners must stay at current base"

Can't just be a one-way restriction. >>





If I'm not mistaken, I believe that rule already exists (where catchers can't block the plate), it's just never called. >>



ah, so just like so-called "gun control" measures, there is no need for more regulations...we just need the enforcement of current ones! So the umpires broke Posey's leg!

digicat

I pulled these frame grabs from the net. I didn't circle the ball, but wanted to show the play.

Under the rules, hitting the catcher to try to make him drop the ball is legal.

This was not a case of a guy blocking the plate though. It was a case of "I think I might be out, so I better take out the catcher and hope for the best."

markj111

Here is Bill James' take in the incident.

A lot of people over at FanGraphs are complaining about the Posey collision. They are saying the rules should be changed. However, didn't you once write something about blocking the plate being illegal according to the MLB rulebook? Wouldn't MLB just have to enforce the rule rather than change it?
Asked by: Izzy
Answered: May 26, 2011


I would put it this way, that

1) There is nothing in the rules that gives the catcher any right to obstruct the runner in a manner that would be prohibited for another infielder, and

2) If any other infielder did the same things, it would obviously be ruled obstruction.

It's been a contentious issue for a hundred years, what the catcher should be allowed to do to block the plate, and we were probably overdue for another round of the controversy.

jdip9

<<<This was not a case of a guy blocking the plate though. It was a case of "I think I might be out, so I better take out the catcher and hope for the best.">>>

I had not seen this frame by frame before. It is pretty clear that the runner has a clear path to the plate. So, basically, this is no different than A-Rod swiping the ball out of Arroyo's glove in Game 6 of the 2004 ALCS. The runner should be out.

digicat

2011 SF Giants Thread: 5/27 - dawn of the Brandon Crawford era

This thread title is in jest, as I doubt a minor league shortstop is going to make much of an impact... but I'm oddly excited about this kid, and he's making his major league debut today (not counting his pinch-runner appearance last night).

He's the #6 prospect in the Giants farm system. which doesn't really say a whole lot when only top two guys (Belt and Wheeler) were the only ones to crack the top 100 in all baseball. He's a kid who scouts consider to have a major league glove at short, but needs to work on his bat. Most experts were projecting his "major league readiness" to be in 2012.

He's been doing well this season, batting .322/.412/.593 in A+ San Jose, but his overall stats from his 4 years in pro ball, while not as exciting, are not horrid either: .270/.336/.412. Since the Giants see a future in this kid, I suspect that they were going to add him to the 40 man roster this year anyways (to protect him from the Rule 5 draft), but accelerated the process due to the glut of injuries that have hit the Giants this season.

I doubt those low-minors numbers will translate into much at the big league level, but who knows, maybe he'll adjust well, kinda how Pablo Sandoval did when he made the jump from AA to MLB back in 2008 (.337/.364/.549 in AA; .345/.357/.490 in ML).

2006-07 USA Baseball Signatures (earliest card)


2008 Donruss Elite Extra Edition

digicat

If there's a way to endear one's self to the fanbase quickly, it's to do what Brandon Crawford did tonight: Grand slam home run in his major league debut! Awesome!

He went 1-3 on the night, with a walk and that slam. It made all the difference tonight too, as the Giants won 5-4.

WTCG

<< <i>If there's a way to endear one's self to the fanbase quickly, it's to do what Brandon Crawford did tonight: Grand slam home run in his major league debut! Awesome!

He went 1-3 on the night, with a walk and that slam. It made all the difference tonight too, as the Giants won 5-4. >>



That win tonight was definitely needed and came in the nick of time in the perfect scenario. They looked like zombies until Bochy was tossed, which knowing Bochy, was probably intentioned. It was exactly what was needed to put a little life into the lineup.

bman90278

<< <i>I pulled these frame grabs from the net. I didn't circle the ball, but wanted to show the play.

Under the rules, hitting the catcher to try to make him drop the ball is legal.

This was not a case of a guy blocking the plate though. It was a case of "I think I might be out, so I better take out the catcher and hope for the best."

>>



Rich, Even though I'm a Dodgers fan, I really hated to see Posey suffer an injury like that one. I hope Posey bounces back fine!

Posey looks like he was in a great spot to make a nice sweep tag, while still giving the runner a clean shot at home plate. I doubt the runner didn't see the runner, but it definitely looks like he should have just slid into home plate. So much for Posey playing fair.

I don't want to see any rule changes, but maybe MLB should look into additional some fines and penalities when a runner seems like he's more into knocking a catcher over than scoring.

I doubt any player in the MLB level tries to seriously hurt another player, but they are physical athletes and they are putting their opposing players in jeopardy when they play that way.

b

digicat

Righty reliever Santiago Casilla's back from the DL, and lefty reliever Dan Runzler's headed down to AAA. He's been shaky, at best. Word is that the Giants are going to try to convert Runzler into a starter/long reliever.

digicat

Impressive win tonight. Lincecum gets torched for a 7th inning 2 run homer to reverse a 1 run lead.... and the Giants rally to tie it up, then win it in extras.

Brandon Crawford's been a breath of fresh air. A young shortstop who can make athletic plays, unlike Miguel Tejada who stunk up that position in the first month of the season, or Mike Fontenot who is playing out of position there (natural 2b).

His offense is currently above what his career minor league numbers would suggest. However, it's said that he spent the off-season totally retooling his swing, so maybe his minor league stats aren't a great indicator of the type of hitter he'll be.

Still, I'm not going to rush out and say that he is to 2011 what Posey was to 2010, but I can hope.

Speaking of Posey, I'm sure Timmy was missing him today. Timmy was in strikeout mode today (9 k's) and his pitches ended up being a little too nasty for Whiteside, who let a few get past him. One strikeout victim reached base, and in another inning, a guy scored form 3rd. Both got scored as wild pitches, but Buster would have handled those.


Pablo had a strong BP from both sides today and is apparently going to begin his rehab assignment this weekend. Having him back will be awesome... but I wonder if they'll actually bench Teajda and his wretched .520 OPS and let Crawford play his way out of the SS job?

jdip9

Is Johnny Bench watching the same video that everyone else in the world is seeing? Where does he want Posey to set up? Posey was not in the baseline, and if he set up any further up the first base side he would have given himself no shot of tagging the runner if he slides to the other side of the plate??

BTW, I praise Sabean for coming to the defense of his player. Good for him.

57loaded

to Johnny Bench:

compare this Pete Rose Ray Fosse 1970 All-Star game

to what you said about blocking a plate (or in a baseline for that matter) and get back to us.

Sabean said a few things publicly he regrets, now. Brian is a great GM. i have similar base feelings towards what happened, though and don't blame Sabean for what he felt. Publicly saying some of it is another.

going at a catcher out of the base path is like running into a football player calling for a fair catch, you just can't "lay him out" to create a "fumble".

digicat

2011 SF Giants Thread: 6/4 - Jose Uribe Memorial Hospital - Brandon Belt his the DL with fractured wrist

Brandon Belt = DL with fractured wrist.

The fracture happened when he got HBP in St Louis on Tuesday. Initially the xrays were negative, and he was sitting out with a sore wrist, but I guess the initial xrays were wrong.

Anyways, Conor Gillaspie is being called up from Fresno to take his spot in the roster. Gillaspie has been exclusively a 3rd baseman in his minor league career, and is .278/.355/.428 in Fresno this season.

He was drafted in 2008 and was called up almost immediately, due in part to his contract, which required him to be put on the 40 man roster the moment he signed, and see play time in his first year. Since 2008, he's been in the minors.

He's probably getting called up simply because the Giants want another infielder on the bench.

rbdjr1

Friday, June 3, 2011
Brian Sabean Is An Idiot (Credits: Giants Newsletter)

Nobody is happy about Scott Cousins' collision at home plate with Buster Posey
which, unfortunately, ended the Giants superstar catcher's season.
I'm not happy about it, Buster isn't happy about it,
Cousins isn't happy about it but Giants GM Brian Sabean is being a jerk about it...
Giants general manager Brian Sabean on Thursday tore into Scott Cousins
of the Florida Marlins for his devastating hit on Buster Posey,
saying the Giants will have a "long memory" of the play
and everyone in the organization will be happy if Cousins is through as a major-league player.


The GM's harshest statements in the lengthy interview came when co-host
Ralph Barbieri noted that Posey had no desire to hear from Cousins.

"I don't blame the kid," Sabean said of Posey. "Why not be hard-nosed?
If I never hear from Cousins again, or he doesn't play another day in the big leagues,
I think we'll all be happy."
Cousins wasn't much of a major leaguer to begin with
but he is built like a linebacker and crushed Posey at the plate.
The ensuing injury led to varying opinions ranging from it
was an intention hit to rules should be changed/enforced
to Posey could have had better technique.
However you view the incident, the result is the same.
It's a crushing blow to the Giants and one of baseball's rising stars.

But Sabean's radio rant bothered me and
I'm sure some front office folk will be calling for a public apology.
Cousins, by all means, seemed upset about the outcome of the
play and tried reaching out to Posey. If Posey didn't/doesn't want to hear an apology,
I can't fault him, he did lose his season after all,
but I tend to think cooler heads will prevail.
Sabean, on the other hand, flat out wished ill on a professional baseball player.

While I realize this was largely an emotional reaction,
Sabean is representing a Major League franchise and should have some professional tact.
That was, and will continue to be, a legal play in the eyes of Major League Baseball.
Blocking the plate and charging the catcher are
baseball fixtures that will take years to overcome if a change in philosophy is,
and might be, warranted.

It's unjust for Sabean to so harshly criticize Cousins
for a play baseball taught him his whole career.

digicat

I'm not surprised that Sabean put on a show with his comments. He's lashed out at the fans from time to time via that same radio show... and he's lashed out at the host of that show as well.

Same old Sabes.

jdip9

<<<going at a catcher out of the base path is like running into a football player calling for a fair catch, you just can't "lay him out" to create a "fumble".>>>

+1

digicat

Last year a local rapper named Ashkon made a song and video for the Giants playoff run that got a lot of publicity and recognition by the Giants and even Steve Perry (who's a big Giants fan).

During Giants FanFest this year, he showed up on his own and pretty much got mobbed by fans wanting his auto, which he was happy to offer. Heh. This year he and another rapper got together and made Feeling Like A Giant, this time with support from the team. Good stuff.. if you're a Giants fan.

Best line "We've got MadBum, no poor folk."

Normally, I hate rap music, but I'm ok with this stuff. Especially good after a torturous extra innings win like tonight.

digicat

2011 SF Giants Thread: 6/6 - Timmy gets 1000th K & lit up

Timmy got torched for 4 runs in 5 innings, but the Giants managed to claw their way back and win in the 13th, 5-4.

Timmy's been off for the last month. He's coughed up 9 earned runs in his last 2 starts, but the Giants still managed to win both times.

1,000 K in his 5th year of pro ball is pretty cool. The only other guys to do it are:

Tom Seaver, 1155 (1379.1 ip, 2.34 era, 1.045 whip)
Bert Blyleven, 1094 (1335.2 ip, 2.74 era, 1.135 whip)
Dwight Gooden, 1067 (1172.2 ip, 2.62 era, 1.102 whip)
Kerry Wood, 1065 (902.2 ip, 3.62 era, 1.261 whip)
Grover Cleveland Alexander, 1036 (1715 ip, 2.32 era, 1.103 whip)
Hideo Nomo, 1031 (960.2 ip, 3.82 era, 1.277 whip)
Mark Langston, 1018 (1124.1 ip, 4.03 era, 1.391 whip)
Tim Lincecum, 1000 (899.1 ip, 3.00 era, 1.117 whip)

Tim's got a shot at the top of that list if he plays like he usually plays.