Has Ebay become just too greedy?

seateddime

In listing 100,000 lira from an old trip on Ebay for $75 I was w told that my final value fees for the store format would be $7.50 and tack another $3.00 for Paypal and my silent partner is getting close to what you pay a major auction house to handle the work and sell them.

I am wondering if ebay, who is going to once again raise fees, has just become a venue for the Buy.com's of the world to sell on and for the average Joe where they started by taking 3% or so for a sale has worked up to close to 15%.

Is it just me are have they become too greedy?

cameron12x

Do they have a graduated commission schedule, based on the final sale price?

How do they compare to Teletrade?

DennisH

YES!
And not just with this latest fee structure change, but several ago.

Type2

Fee-bay sucks now.

2manycoins2fewfunds

Ebay is useful for items where your profit margin is large and item requires a lot of 'eyes' to sell.

A combined Ebay/Paypal bite of 15% is a killer unless your gross margin is 30%+

Virtually impossible to sell any coins below $100 where bullion content is major portion of worth.................

ambro51

It gives your item immediate Worldwide exposure and millions of potential buyers with one click buying and electronic transfer of money into your account from anywhere in the world.


what else, where elso, how else.....how else you gonna do that??

seateddime

For more expensive coins you can goto major auction house but say you break up a set, after the keys there are a lot of semi keys worth $50 to $100.

What do you do with them to sell them?

291fifth

They continue to test what the market will bear. I suspect the changes to their fee structure they are implementing on April 16 will result in many fewer listings.

It's not just the eBay/PayPal fees but the cost of shipping as well. USPS charges have gone up substantially (though sellers of lightweight items like coins may not notice it.)

The real threat to eBay is that potential buyers will just stop looking at the site. In some categories that seems to be happening already. I'm seeing far fewer hits, watchers and bidders than in the past in several non-coin categories I use. True auctions have been replaced by "full retail" (or more) sellers with high starting prices or high buy-it now.

lkeigwin

ebay is a business. It is no more or less greedy than any other company looking to grow and profit. If you don't like the fees or policies don't use it. Simple, really.
Lance.

seateddime

<< <i>It gives your item immediate Worldwide exposure and millions of potential buyers with one click buying and electronic transfer of money into your account from anywhere in the world.


what else, where elso, how else.....how else you gonna do that?? >>



I agree but if you need to make 15% margin to break even that's tough if are selling say 90% silver. At least with major auction houses they do much of the work.

seateddime

<< <i>They continue to test what the market will bear. I suspect the changes to their fee structure they are implementing on April 16 will result in many fewer listings.

It's not just the eBay/PayPal fees but the cost of shipping as well. USPS charges have gone up substantially (though sellers of lightweight items like coins may not notice it.)

The real threat to eBay is that potential buyers will just stop looking at the site. In some categories that seems to be happening already. I'm seeing far fewer hits, watchers and bidders than in the past in several non-coin categories I use. True auctions have been replaced by "full retail" (or more) sellers with high starting prices or high buy-it now. >>



I think you have to fix prices and take offers.

I am seeing a LOT of buyers trying to cut deals off of Ebay to save money, they buyers are paying more.

On electronics I can buy new for less on Amazon 75% of the time and sometimes much less.

In the auto sales almost no cars that sell are sold via Ebay, it's more like an ad.

Twobitcollector

Yep!!!

keyman64

I like going to local coin shows to sell stuff. No fees and get cash. . Granted, if you are in a hurry and do not have a local coin show coming up in the next couple of weeks then you might have to resort to fee-bay.....just try not to put yourself in this position. My 2 Cents.

I had a complete Franklin set in MS63ish raw that I took to a local coin show. I received many offers ranging from $450 to $625. I sold it for $625. I built the set over the past several years for $600 so I was happy to get out of it. I do not think I would have done better on eBay because I would have needed kick butt photos of 35 coins which would have been a ton of work....then there would have been close to $80 in fees!!!!! I would have lost my butt on that set. Why flush money down the toilet when you don't have to most of the time? Sometimes you need the power of eBay but many times you do not!

renomedphys

From about March 2006 until mid 2008 I sold about 200 coins on eBay, probably totaling about $100,000 or therabouts. That's about the time when they introduced their "beginning of the end" fee structure. Over the next few months, until September 30, I only sold four. Then I went dark.

Then, in May 2009, I sold what was to be my last coin on the Bay for $168.

Since then, I have sparsely used the site to hawk wares like camera parts and sporting goods that were too nice to throw out. In fact, since September 2008, I have received only 13 feedback from sales, including that last coin.

If it weren't for the change in their fee structure, my story would be vastly different.

GoldenEyeNumismatics

It's a business that is trying (like any other business) to increase its profits. I think "greed" is the wrong word. It's just business as usual.

pf70collector

EBay buys GSI of $2.4 B

Somebody has to pay for their acquisition.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>It gives your item immediate Worldwide exposure and millions of potential buyers with one click buying and electronic transfer of money into your account from anywhere in the world.


what else, where elso, how else.....how else you gonna do that?? >>



Would you be willing to ship to Libya or Afghanistan right now? FWIW, there aren't millions of buyers for any coin I own.

robkool

As each day passes... I'm really hating the bay more & more as a seller.

jmski52

From about March 2006 until mid 2008 I sold about 200 coins on eBay, probably totaling about $100,000 or therabouts. That's about the time when they introduced their "beginning of the end" fee structure. Over the next few months, until September 30, I only sold four. Then I went dark.

Then, in May 2009, I sold what was to be my last coin on the Bay for $168.

Since then, I have sparsely used the site to hawk wares like camera parts and sporting goods that were too nice to throw out. In fact, since September 2008, I have received only 13 feedback from sales, including that last coin.

If it weren't for the change in their fee structure, my story would be vastly different.


My experience is almost identical to yours, except that I've been "ebay-free" now for about 2 1/2 years. They made plenty of good money off my listings during the 8 or 9 years I participated.

If they're happy with their business model, that's fine. Personally, I hope their top execs have to bail because of falling revenues and a shareholder revolt, the sooner the better.

ianrussell

Definitely the eBay fee structure makes it very difficult for the seller. The worst part is that the seller has to do all the work. You pay Paypal, you pay eBay, you take all the risk, and you have to image, ship and do everything.

- Ian

Frankcoins

A year and a half ago, you could sell 5 items a month with no final value fee...of course you had to give Paypal their 3%

Then they got rid of that, but capped the fee at $20


Then they capped it at $50

Now it will be capped at $100

So on a $1500 coin the total fees have gone from $45 to $65 to $95 and soon to be $145. That's a 245% increase in less than two
years. Greed is the only word for it.

mkman123

I think so. For people that buy, ebay can be great. For sellers.........ugh talk about the fees and all the things that go along like bad bidders, etc.

Plus I'm seeing more and more ebay stores in which people just put very high prices on their stuff vs doing an auction.

Unless there is a real challenger to ebay, I think it continue to be the same. Slowly and slowly I think that forums like these that have a BST will cut into ebays profits especially in the coin department.

robkool

I'm afraid it will only get worse for the sellers on the bay...

LindeDad

Closed the store and getting ready to go fishing have fun eBay.

19Lyds

I believe that eBay has gotten greedy in that they need to respond to their stock holders. Stock Holders "expect" profits not losses and given the number of reputab;le coin sellers dropping off of eBay, their profits must surely show some effect.

Granted, coin sales are not the onky thing being sold on eBay but comparatively speaking, the fee increases we suffer through are suffered by sellers of other items as well.

I just wish that "Coins & Paper Money" were given the big discounts that other categories seem to enjoy in Final Value Fee's for Fixed Price items.



I guess I don't understand why Electronics has such a lower rate?

Maybe I should list coins as electronics and see how well they do?

sonofagunk

It is not an auction site anymore. Costs you the same to list it at 0.99 or $100.

Constantine

Yes, those eyeballs are costing plenty these days. That is the catch, as it is expensive, but there is the following. eBay is great if you want to blow out of something.

Fairlaneman

Here are my thoughts about ebay versus the very limited chance to sell where I live. I will use a raw coin that was purchased on ebay and sold on ebay. Hope the buyer is not on this board....

The coin is a 1943D colorfully toned dime. The picture when buying the coin was next to terrible so of course only a couple of people bid on the coin. I cannot remember exactly what was paid for the coin but it was less than 10 bucks delivered.

When the coin arrived it was a MS65 FB coin all the way. If I would have taken it to the one and only coin shop in the area, 7 bucks gas round trip, they would have down graded the coin as usual and then given 80% of bid. Right there the coin was worth $5.80 or a loss, when considering gas, of 4 bucks plus change. That was and is out of the question in my book.

After taking a picture and putting it on ebay for a 30 day Buy It Now listng with the Make a Offer option the coin sold for 35 bucks. Take the 15% for fees and you are left with $29.75 realized for the coin. Take the 10 buck cost off and the profit is $19.75.

Of course not all deals work out like this but if you are carefull with how you buy and grade to please your customers ebay can be a great place to buy and sell if needed. Actually with the rise in silver most of the buying mistakes of past years have been almost washes now. I will say that I do not buy expensive coins on ebay and do not sell expensive coins on ebay. Maybe that type of seller is playing a whole different ballgame.

For people out in the wide open parts of the country Ebay cannot be beat.

Ken

AUandAG

I milked them for years but have weaned myself off lately.

bob

slipgate

Is Ebay greedy? Yes

Is this a capitalist country and they can charge whatever they want? Yes

Will their greediness put them out of business? Perhaps, it depends if the greediness of the public and the willingness of the people to pay higher and higher prices for what they buy is greater.

I do disagree with the "they are a business like any other and need to grow like any other". They aren't really. For one, whether they do a billion auctions or a trillion, their costs do not go up linearly like in other businesses. The # of auctions they host is increasing though, so arguably they are double dipping as they are getting more business (which increases their profit) and charging more fees (which increases their profit). Again, if the public is willing to bear this, they will continue to do this. The problem is, "necessity is the mother of invention" so when (if?), the pubic revolts, it just may put them out of business.

Personally I rarely buy on ebay anymore since it seems to be mostly businesses (and charging retail) with very few private parties anymore.

airplanenut

<< <i>A combined Ebay/Paypal bite of 15% is a killer unless your gross margin is 30%+ >>

How inexpensive are the items you're selling. When I sell an item over $163.63 for someone, the total fee they pay is about 12%, and that includes eBay, PayPal, and my commission of 5.5%...

Russ

Ask a B&M dealer who's paying rent and all the other associated expenses, (and getting nowhere near the exposure), if eBay is too greedy.

Russ, NCNE

DNADave

I saw an add the other day during a cable news commercial, for a new online auction site....
but I can't remember the name

it wasn't boocoo

leothelyon

I believe that if everyone here with a website could find a way to link all the websites together to one central website, wouldn't that create more traffic for everyone's websites?

I'm thinking that there's a way to provide a link to a thumbnail picture of anyone's website on another's website.



Any ideas on how this could be done?


Leo

coindeuce

<< <i>I believe that if everyone here with a website could find a way to link all the websites together to one central website, wouldn't that create more traffic for everyone's websites?

I'm thinking that there's a way to provide a link to a thumbnail picture of anyone's website on another's website.



Any ideas on how this could be done?


Leo >>



Ask Anaconda. That is exactly what he is working on with his new website.

bestday

over a hundred bucks in fees to sell a $1,000 coin ?... sell it at a B&M and remember to keep an eye on resaleability of coins when you purchase them

PawPaul

<< <i>It gives your item immediate Worldwide exposure and millions of potential buyers with one click buying and electronic transfer of money into your account from anywhere in the world.


what else, where elso, how else.....how else you gonna do that?? >>



bingo !

PonyExpress8

Yes. Stopped using them when combined fees averaged double digits about 3 years ago.

It's easier and more efficient to use StackBowers or Heritage for a lot of items then eBay sadly.

Ask a B&M dealer who's paying rent and all the other associated expenses, (and getting nowhere near the exposure), if eBay is too greedy.

Russ I know of 4 different large eBay sellers that in recent months have de-empasized their eBay operation and invested in the B & M side. They haven't stopped their eBay activity but they are having more success in the current market focusing on the B & M side. There are plenty of outlets to sell material too that are much less hassle and time, lower risk and a better return.

While Jeremy makes a valid point when you get to a certain $ level, it's still a lot of money considering the margins present in coins. And there is no assurance you will get the level of bidding activity in an auction to reach the $163 level. Jeremy does a good job and if you can afford the 12% it's not a bad way to go, especially if you are just raising cash. But often 12% is all the margin there is and it doesn't always make sense to work for free now does it!

BaseballAbs

OFF the subject, but I wonder when PCGS is going to add a listing fee to the BST?

leothelyon

<< <i>

<< <i>I believe that if everyone here with a website could find a way to link all the websites together to one central website, wouldn't that create more traffic for everyone's websites?

I'm thinking that there's a way to provide a link to a thumbnail picture of anyone's website on another's website.



Any ideas on how this could be done?


Leo >>



Ask Anaconda. That is exactly what he is working on with his new website. >>



Thanks for the heads up. I would think a lot of folks here would be interested in pooling their websites together. When someone clicks my website and they're looking for something other than Jefferson nickels, I haven't been able to provide a link.


Leo

Leo

ebaytrader

<< <i>Yes. Stopped using them when combined fees averaged double digits about 3 years ago.

It's easier and more efficient to use StackBowers or Heritage for a lot of items then eBay sadly.

Ask a B&M dealer who's paying rent and all the other associated expenses, (and getting nowhere near the exposure), if eBay is too greedy.

Russ I know of 4 different large eBay sellers that in recent months have de-empasized their eBay operation and invested in the B & M side. They haven't stopped their eBay activity but they are having more success in the current market focusing on the B & M side. There are plenty of outlets to sell material too that are much less hassle and time, lower risk and a better return.

While Jeremy makes a valid point when you get to a certain $ level, it's still a lot of money considering the margins present in coins. And there is no assurance you will get the level of bidding activity in an auction to reach the $163 level. Jeremy does a good job and if you can afford the 12% it's not a bad way to go, especially if you are just raising cash. But often 12% is all the margin there is and it doesn't always make sense to work for free now does it! >>



Ebays fees are more than the rent of the store and ebay sales account for less than 1% of our revenue. I'd be off of feepay in a heartbeat if it were my call.

Russ

<< <i>over a hundred bucks in fees to sell a $1,000 coin ?... >>



Uh, no. Not even close.

Russ, NCNE

Russ

<< <i>Ebays fees are more than the rent of the store and ebay sales account for less than 1% of our revenue. I'd be off of feepay in a heartbeat if it were my call. >>



Well then, congratulations on the multi-$millions a year you're generating at the store.

Russ, NCNE

DRUNNER

I love to buy there, but I think I would be hesitant to become a new 'seller' with the reviews of what I see. I know of just a couple B&M dealers who supplemented their income to a large degree with eBay sales up to two years ago . . .and now they have disappeared from the site. These are dealer friends who have a large amount of experience. More power to those who can make it there . . . you are the ones who are selling the Doilies I buy!!!

Drunner
(Doilies aren't just for eBay anymore)

Russ

<< <i>I love to buy there, but I think I would be hesitant to become a new 'seller' with the reviews of what I see. >>



eBay absolutely sucks for new sellers. Besides the labyrinth of nebulous rules and the constant, (frequently nonsensical), changes, they now have severe revenue and funds access restrictions in place that make it very difficult to succeed as a newbie.

Russ, NCNE

notwilight

<< <i>

<< <i>over a hundred bucks in fees to sell a $1,000 coin ?... >>



Uh, no. Not even close.

Russ, NCNE >>



Actually, pretty close and it can be over $100 if you figure it right. A seller who pays full paypal rate of 2.9% and has no ebay fee discount pays $92.80 in fees on a $1000 BIN sale. if you let ebay goad you into offering "free shipping" then that cost puts you over $100 to sell a $1000 coin.

Even with my discounts and charging shipping I still pay $82.65.

--Jerry

BigRick

Yes.

Disgraceful they charge a final value fee on the whole sale of a $1,000 bill, e.g. instead of everything over face value.

wondercoin

"Definitely the eBay fee structure makes it very difficult for the seller. The worst part is that the seller has to do all the work. You pay Paypal, you pay eBay, you take all the risk, and you have to image, ship and do everything.
- Ian"

And, hence, you have created a company to try to do all of this for your consignors for less than the ebay fees? Good luck with it. This is an example of the "competition" that folks have been predicted will be coming.

Wondercoin

ianrussell

<< <i>"Definitely the eBay fee structure makes it very difficult for the seller. The worst part is that the seller has to do all the work. You pay Paypal, you pay eBay, you take all the risk, and you have to image, ship and do everything.
- Ian"

And, hence, you have created a company to try to do all of this for your consignors for less than the ebay fees? Good luck with it. This is an example of the "competition" that folks have been predicted will be coming.

Wondercoin >>



That's exactly why. If eBay had the fees of 10 years ago, I would not have created my new company.

- Ian

Tdec1000

Ian, I am patiently awaiting to see what some of the coins realize at your auction house. I am very tempted to send some your way if they do well. I wonder how long until this company rivals TT and Heritage?

ebaytrader

<< <i>

<< <i>Ebays fees are more than the rent of the store and ebay sales account for less than 1% of our revenue. I'd be off of feepay in a heartbeat if it were my call. >>



Well then, congratulations on the multi-$millions a year you're generating at the store.

Russ, NCNE >>



Thanks, but the full credit goes to my partner. To demonstrate how ridiculous feepay's fees are, we do as much on FACTS in one or two days than on feepay in a full month and FACTS is about $165 a month.