How not to buy silver

CaptHenway · March 27, 2011 5:11AM

Why coin dealers drink. This is from my old dealer-to-dealer network today. Which one of you was in his shop?
.
"My saturday story. Second guy in the door. I'm looking for SAE. OK ?
I'm paying 39.00 !! Really ??? About a 30 sec pause. Arent you going
to sell me any ?? Not at 39 ! Whats your asking price ??? Not interested
in selling any at this time. Pause !! I guess I could pay 40. Pause !!
Do you have any for sale ??? Nope ! Not to you !! You wont sell me
any ? Nope !! Dont need rent money. Your not very easy to do business with.
Yep your right ! Think its time for you to leave. Had another regular
standing there and he's laughing his a** off. I just love the flea market
types. "

Spot is around $37.40. Wholesale cost to a large dealer is +$2.85 per coin, and as of Thursday MTB did not have any available.

The dealer haters may now chime in.

fivecents · March 27, 2011 5:37AM

It wasn't me Capt...I promise.

Garneteye · March 27, 2011 5:59AM

Capt- His store, his right to act as he pleases, I have dealt with some individuals who were more trouble than their business is worth. I simply price my product so that they go elsewhere.

Dan

pakasmom · March 27, 2011 7:12AM

Not everyone with a desire to own, or sell, understands the "finer points of conduct" in a coin or bullion transaction.
Not sure why anyone would expect them to...

roadrunner · March 27, 2011 9:29AM

Was it Tee135 trying to restock?

roadrunner

jmski52 · March 27, 2011 9:38AM

When I buy Silver Eagles, I have to figure that the dealer has to want my dollars as much as I want his Silver Eagles, or vice versa if I am selling.

That being the case, why not just act like a human being when establishing the price?

oilstates2003 · March 27, 2011 10:04AM

<< Was it Tee135 trying to restock?

roadrunner >>

Thanks I needed a good laugh!!!!

Weiss · March 27, 2011 10:26AM

I'm sorry I'm dense: what happened here? Someone went to a shop wanting to buy eagles at $1.60 over melt and was turned down, so they offered $2.60 and were still turned down (rudely, apparently)?

I understand that dealers buying wholesale have to pay a fair amount per coin. But do dealers pay that much of a premium per coin when buying odd lots from the public? In other words, if someone had just come into that same shop to sell a few rolls, would the dealer really have paid them spot plus $2-something per coin? That just doesn't seem likely.

I dunno. If it was a regular cheapskate trying to milk the dealer, then yeah, eff off. But without that context, it just sounds like a dealer being rude to a customer.

tydye · March 27, 2011 10:36AM

I think it had to do more with the buyers approach rather than the prices.

OPA · March 27, 2011 10:38AM

It's called being an uninformed ... next time refer him to APMEX. For one coin they'd charge him $42.78, but he can save a few bucks if he purchased 500 or more @ $41.28 per coin. BTW, their buy back price is...$39.24 per coin. Buyers need to do their homework before making an ars of themselves.
(I'm not a dealer, but an edumacated PM consumer

)

ufdah · March 27, 2011 10:43AM

I think this shows the importance of a good Dealer relationship, I have a dealer I almost exclusively go to for my bullion needs, I pay around the same price for them as a guy off the street does, however after 3 years of buying from him, he knows what I like and usually saves anything off the street He is sure that I would want and doesnt offer them to any Joe off the street until I come in and look at them, (and usually buy) I have even given him a crib sheet of dates that I want and he keeps an eye out for me.......If I go into another coin store I do not assume anything when it comes to price or quite frankly the seller/dealers personality, its America every dealer has the right to operate how he sees fit.

jmski52 · March 27, 2011 12:07PM

Weiss may be right on this. There needs to be a bit more context, and without some idea of the dealer's buy/sell spread it's hard to know who, if anyone was pushing the limit.

57loaded · March 27, 2011 12:21PM

first guy in the door was the "regular", right?

CaptHenway · March 27, 2011 12:54PM

Walk into your neighborhood gas station and say "I want a tank of gas. I'm paying $1.29 a gallon!" and see how far that gets you......

Amigo · March 27, 2011 3:00PM

I tend to think it's a rude Dealer as well.

It could've been a teachable moment to someone that isn't well informed, turning him into a regular. The dealer acting like an ass in front of a regular would guarantee no business from hiim, nor me as the regular if I saw the Dealer being as ass like that.

OldEastside · March 27, 2011 3:56PM

Went in about a half hour before closing time to my local guy on saturday, right off I sense some irratability, no big deal I get that alot everywhere

, he says "I got nothing", so I says "I'm not here for that" I need a 66 sms set for my bro in law" he calms down and tells me he's tired and it's been a heck of a week, I said I understand while glancing at his bullion case and theres nada, nothing, zipppp, except for some circ morgans & piece dollars and some gold, last week there was a couple of hundred ouncer bars an alot of rounds as well as at least 70 or 80 ASE's.

Anyhow I get my 66sms and I look at his modern commemerative case and pick out Madison bill of rights buck and half buck silver and I get it for a buck more than melt, I was real happy, he named the price.

8 years ago there was 10 places locally I could walk in and satisfy my cravings, today theres ONE !.

I don't mind supporting my local coin guy, because I miss the one's that are gone.

OzzyAndy · March 27, 2011 6:55PM

Wow, that's one big avatar, OldEastSide.

Steve27 · March 27, 2011 8:22PM

"Wholesale cost to a large dealer is +$2.85 per coin,..."

Maybe it's time to become a small dealer, yesterday I witnessed a dealer pay less than 10c over spot for 15 mixed date SAEs.

PerryHall · March 27, 2011 9:14PM

<< I tend to think it's a rude Dealer as well.

It could've been a teachable moment to someone that isn't well informed, turning him into a regular. The dealer acting like an ass in front of a regular would guarantee no business from hiim, nor me as the regular if I saw the Dealer being as ass like that. >>

Agree. I wonder how many friends and neighbors this person told about this dealer acting like a total jerk.

gimli89 · March 27, 2011 10:09PM

This is how I got rid of flea market types when I had my sports cards & memorabilia, supplies etc. store.

Prices were clearly marked on box or on sign so I believed they could not read when they would ask ' what do you want for that box?' I would quote the price marked, say $49. they would say 'I will give you $30.00 how bout that, then I would counter offer and say now its $50, ( this is how I found out if they could read or not). 'WHAT it says $49.' yes that's the price I say, Ok they say I give you $31, I take the box down and remark it at $51.00 and by this time most get the message, few buy it at the original price but most just leave I never see them again. I know I know I lost customers that way but I can put myself in the poor house, don't need anyone else's help.

Moral of story as they go down I go up.

PS
My longest post to date. sorry no giveaway for reading

ufdah · March 27, 2011 10:24PM

<< 8 years ago there was 10 places locally I could walk in and satisfy my cravings, today theres ONE !.

I don't mind supporting my local coin guy, because I miss the one's that are gone. >>

I agree that 10 years ago there were twice as many dealers in the area than currently in business now, sad to say that the ones who have made it through are usually the shrewd and less "interesting" dealers, but it is a business after all. I have a dealer who I'm comfortable with but I have never seen him be rude to anyone, I can see both sides to this really.

gecko109 · March 27, 2011 10:32PM

If wholesale cost to large dealers is really $2.85......and even at that hefty premium, there still arent enough to go around....then why wont dealers buy 100 from me at +$2.85 instead of +$1.25? Are the wholesaler's ASEs somehow better than my ASEs? What you forget Tom is that a LARGE portion of items the dealers sell comes in off the street...and at nowhere near "replacement" cost. Sure, its true that Tulving sells 1/4 oz gold eagles at 9% over melt when bought in quantity....but can you name me a single local dealer who would pay ME 9% over for my 1/4s? The fact is that if I was to walk into GoldDust, Chicago Coin Co. or even HJB this morning, I would be lucky to get anything over melt on my 1/4s. Yet, the next guy who walked in wanting to BUY 1/4s would be given the line "my replacement cost on these is melt +9%", even though he just bought 2 rolls of them at melt from me an hour earlier.

Attitudes on either side have no place in negotiations. I dont condone the buyer's actions in your story, nor those of the dealer. Both of them "blew it" in my opinion.

CaptHenway · March 27, 2011 10:49PM

Phil, it's one thing to walk in and ask "Got any deals today?" hoping that the place just bought something. No problem with that at all. It's another thing to walk into another man's business and tell him how to run his business.

What would you do if some civilian walked up to the fire truck and started telling you how to put out the two-alarmer you were working?

gecko109 · March 27, 2011 10:51PM

<< Phil, it's one thing to walk in and ask "Got any deals today?" hoping that the place just bought something. No problem with that at all. It's another thing to walk into another man's business and tell him how to run his business.

What would you do if some civilian walked up to the fire truck and started telling you how to put out the two-alarmer you were working? >>

Point taken.

jmski52 · March 28, 2011 12:08AM

The key is in not having to buy or sell, but in choosing to.

carew4me · March 28, 2011 1:22AM

Sounds like dealer who has had it up to here with paying customers.

pakasmom · March 28, 2011 3:06AM

CaptHenway, (Serious question) If I wanted to sell some of my bullion to my local shop, what is the most polite way to ask him what he's paying today?

Downtown1974 · March 28, 2011 4:23AM

<< Phil, it's one thing to walk in and ask "Got any deals today?" hoping that the place just bought something. No problem with that at all. It's another thing to walk into another man's business and tell him how to run his business.

What would you do if some civilian walked up to the fire truck and started telling you how to put out the two-alarmer you were working? >>

Capt, A civilian wouldn't walk up to Phil and say that. They would say "Hey firefighter...great job extinguishing that 2 alarm fire! But, we want to take away your pension and raise the roof on your health care benefits. Oh...and your collective bargaining...we want that too. Again, thanks for not letting my home burn down to the foundation!

PerryHall · March 28, 2011 5:06AM

<< CaptHenway, (Serious question) If I wanted to sell some of my bullion to my local shop, what is the most polite way to ask him what he's paying today? >>

Why not just ask your dealer "What are you paying for silver?" Depending on his answer, you may want to sell it on the BST.

stevkc · March 28, 2011 6:03AM

<< Walk into your neighborhood gas station and say "I want a tank of gas. I'm paying $1.29 a gallon!" and see how far that gets you......

>>

Great point...oh yeah, except that when I buy gas there is a big giant sign outside that says how much gas costs. I'm guessing you didn't have one of those outside your store.

So the guy was a bit annoying--sounds like he wasn't completely unreasonable on his price. In any event, why not just tell him your price and cut all the drama? I guess it is more fun to just be a jerk to someone?

CaptHenway · March 28, 2011 7:04AM

<< 

<< Walk into your neighborhood gas station and say "I want a tank of gas. I'm paying $1.29 a gallon!" and see how far that gets you......

>>

Great point...oh yeah, except that when I buy gas there is a big giant sign outside that says how much gas costs. I'm guessing you didn't have one of those outside your store.

So the guy was a bit annoying--sounds like he wasn't completely unreasonable on his price. In any event, why not just tell him your price and cut all the drama? I guess it is more fun to just be a jerk to someone? >>

Wasn't my price, wasn't my store. I'm retired. Please read the original post a bit more closely.

I was just pointing out the kinds of jerks that walk into coin shops.

P.S.: Offering well under replacement cost IS being completely unreasonable.

CaptHenway · March 28, 2011 7:07AM

<< CaptHenway, (Serious question) If I wanted to sell some of my bullion to my local shop, what is the most polite way to ask him what he's paying today? >>

Start by declaring what you have for sale ($200 face 90%, 25 one ounce silver bars, whatever).

Then, instead of asking "What are you paying today?" and getting the generic buy price, ask "How much can you pay for it?" This may get you a higher offer. You can then play or pass at your decision.

TD

Wingsrule · March 28, 2011 7:50AM

Capn,

Back to Phil's question...in your opinion...if I walked in to HJB tomorrow with a sealed box of ASEs, would I be offered the 'wholesale' spot +$2.85 price, or would I be given the generic 'man-off-the-street' price? Would it matter if I'm a regular or not? I'm not trying to stir up anything, just curious.

Mark

CaptHenway · March 28, 2011 8:55AM

<< Capn,

Back to Phil's question...in your opinion...if I walked in to HJB tomorrow with a sealed box of ASEs, would I be offered the 'wholesale' spot +$2.85 price, or would I be given the generic 'man-off-the-street' price? Would it matter if I'm a regular or not? I'm not trying to stir up anything, just curious.

Mark >>

First of all, let me repeat that I am retired, and no longer speak for HJB, Ltd.

With a sealed case, would you be offered +$2.85? Probably not.

Could you ask for +$2.85? Sure, you can ask for anything.

Would you get it? Maybe yes, maybe no. Depends on how the law of supply and demand is swinging when you ask. If they still cannot buy any from the official distributor, and they have a customer they can flop it to at a profit, they might. If, on the other hand, their supplier is loaded up again, they would probably not pay +$2.85, though they would still pay a premium.

TD

Wingsrule · March 28, 2011 9:01AM

That's why I wrote "in your opinion".

1) I appreciate the answer.
2) I apologize because it was supposed to be a PM. I wasn't trying to put you on the spot.
3) Wings and Blackhawks tied at 1.

CaptHenway · March 28, 2011 9:43AM

2-1 Hawks!

Geotovore · March 28, 2011 1:15PM

<< 2-1 Hawks! >>

Good luck tomorrow night against Boston, especially with Thomas in net.

CaptHenway · March 28, 2011 1:36PM

<< 

<< 2-1 Hawks! >>

Good luck tomorrow night against Boston, especially with Thomas in net. >>

I love Original Six games! I grew up watching Gordie Howe at Olympia!!!

pakasmom · March 29, 2011 3:21AM

Start by declaring what you have for sale ($200 face 90%, 25 one ounce silver bars, whatever).

Then, instead of asking "What are you paying today?" and getting the generic buy price, ask "How much can you pay for it?" This may get you a higher offer. You can then play or pass at your decision.

Thank you. That's helpful... The last time I tried to check what price he was comfortable buying at, he said, "Well, I'm not paying X!" (I hadn't said anything about X and this guy seems to like me alright.) So it left me feeling like the conversation was a bit of a verbal mine field. And I didn't know how to properly navigate it.

How not to buy silver

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