Silver bars vs rounds question
BobS
Posts: 1,738 ✭✭
My local shop charges spot +$0.50 for silver bars, rounds, etc. They do not differentiate between:
Generic bars
"name" bars - Englehard, Agor, etc.
Generic rounds
"name" rounds
Stamped bars
poured bars, new bars
old bars
You get the picture. They also sell all the 1oz. coins (maple leaf, monics, kuko's, etc.), except for the silver eagles at the same price. eagles are sopt plus 4 bucks.
From a value/investment prospective, assuming all yhe above can be purchased at the same amount, can you name the order in which I/You would rank these? Or, is bullion just bullion to most of you, like the shop treats them?
Bob
Generic bars
"name" bars - Englehard, Agor, etc.
Generic rounds
"name" rounds
Stamped bars
poured bars, new bars
old bars
You get the picture. They also sell all the 1oz. coins (maple leaf, monics, kuko's, etc.), except for the silver eagles at the same price. eagles are sopt plus 4 bucks.
From a value/investment prospective, assuming all yhe above can be purchased at the same amount, can you name the order in which I/You would rank these? Or, is bullion just bullion to most of you, like the shop treats them?
Bob
0
Comments
buy any and all of it you can for spot + .50. I would say the Engelhard bars first in bar material and Maple Leafs/Kooks in round form.
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
"Name" bars first (Engelhard and Argor are good or, even better, JM) and then Kookaburra's, Panda, Maple...
Unfortunately, the +.50 is the smallest shop and usually only has generic stuff (except today). cleaned them out of Kuko's (1), philharmonics (3) and maple leafs (6).
Another unfortunate thing is the +1.50 shop has all the good stuff. Have been able to pick up about 20oz of Englehard bars and another 20 or so of Agor bars from them though. Even at spot +1.50 this is good, right?
JC
<< <i>So to summarize, if I want to buy silver strictly of long term investment (instead of for examples, CDs which are paying like .9%) does it make any difference if I buy 1 oz rounds or bars or Eagles? If they all are .999 aren't they are going to be worth 1 oz at spot price someday?
JC >>
Not quite. Most fair dealers take in eagles at spot + a buck, maybe even 2. Generics...like x-mas and b-day rounds usually sell back of spot...50 cents or so. Engelhards, Johnson Matthey and the like are usually bought in at spot (sometimes a tad back of spot if its a really high volume wholesaler).
The difference you will see in resale value for generics vs premium is best demonstrated when selling on ebay.....and to a lesser extent, the BST here. 20oz of generic silver offered at melt might take a few hours to sell, whereas 20oz of Engelhards offered at spot would take a few minutes to sell. Same for eagles or maples or any other higher end form of .999 fine.
JC
<< <i>Thanks. I believe you but I don't understand. Silver is a commodity, silver is silver. It is like going to a store to buy lemons. A lemon is a lemon. I don't shop for a brand name of lemon. I can see where Eagles would cost more as it must cost more to make and it can be used as money I guess.
JC >>
Your premise is about 90% right....silver is silver. It is just a commodity, but let me ask you this...and be honest.
Your local dealer has a small pile of x-mas and b-day rounds and some other generic bars...lets say 20 ounces total, and he is asking $ $700 for the whole lot.
You notice he has a 2nd pile as well, but this one has eagles, maple leafs, Engelhard and Johnson Matthey bars, and a few credit suisse bars too....lets say 20 ounces total, and he is asking $700 for the whole lot as well.
Now you have just $700 in your pocket, and want to buy that much in silver bullion. Which pile would you choose?
Because there IS a very real demand for premium tier silver physical bullion among those who choose to purchase such things, there is a very equally real stratisfied pricing structure among the many various forms of silver one can buy. Much like the average person who sees a car as simply a mode of transportation from point A to point B, they will choose to spend $20k on a Camry rather than $50k on a Lexus. Both vehicles do essential identical tasks, yet there still is a market for the premium vehicle. Buy generic silver if it doesnt bother you....it bothers the hell out of me though, and I wont touch the stuff, even at deep discounts to the "good" stuff!
JC
<< <i>Thanks. I believe you but I don't understand. Silver is a commodity, silver is silver. It is like going to a store to buy lemons. A lemon is a lemon. I don't shop for a brand name of lemon. I can see where Eagles would cost more as it must cost more to make and it can be used as money I guess.
JC >>
Just check the sell prices on ebay and you will see how much difference in value there is between the forms of silver.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>The problem with the Christmas, birthday, anniversary, etc silver bars/rounds is that in most cases the company that made them isn't shown on the round/bar. The same can be said for the Indian $5, Morgan, SLQ, etc silver round replicas. >>
If the silver art bars were minted in the 1970's then a lot of them will have the mint name on them. For example, Madison Mint minted a lot of Christmas and other major holiday and anniversary silver art bars during the '70's. Mother-Lode Mint and United States Corporation also minted Christmas and other major holiday silver art bars during the 1970's.
If the Christmas and other major holiday, anniversary, Father's Day, etc. silver art bars were minted in the 1980's, then it might (or might not) have the mint shown on the bar. I believe that the National Mint (Canada) produced some Christmas and other holiday themed art bars during the '80's as well as Silvertowne Mint.
Most of the Christmas, birthday, graduation, etc. silver art bars that I have seen were minted in the last 10-15 years were minted by Silvertowne. The Silvertowne name will not be on the bar but they have different reverse types that only Silvertowne produces as far as I know.
These above statements are just past observations from me as a silver art bar collector.