The 1st "No Downside" Silver Coin?
carew4me
Posts: 3,473 ✭✭✭✭
Canada 2011 $20 Commemorative Pure Silver Maple Leaf
Is this the first Silver Coin with zero downside?
1. $20 FACE! - Legal Tender
2. Canadian dollar in parity with US and expected to surpass
3. Each coin has has around 1/4 oz Pure silver (that's .9999!) to will enjoy increase as spot rises
4. $20 face provides solid floor value
5. Limited mintage
6. Canadian Mintage restrictions - Not available for sale outside Canada
Pure silver + a limited mintage + $20 denomination = no-risk?
Is this the first Silver Coin with zero downside?
1. $20 FACE! - Legal Tender
2. Canadian dollar in parity with US and expected to surpass
3. Each coin has has around 1/4 oz Pure silver (that's .9999!) to will enjoy increase as spot rises
4. $20 face provides solid floor value
5. Limited mintage
6. Canadian Mintage restrictions - Not available for sale outside Canada
Pure silver + a limited mintage + $20 denomination = no-risk?
Loves me some shiny!
0
Comments
They also claim you have a double play of $20 face plus $8 in silver for a value of $28! Get the math?
Talisman Spin.
Miles
TD
The RCM ships them for free, so it's like a currency exchange without fees (though, I will pay the shipping from Canada to the US).
100 EUR = 136 USD
or
1/10oz = $140 in gold
<< <i>Looks like the text from the Talisman site.
They also claim you have a double play of $20 face plus $8 in silver for a value of $28! Get the math?
Talisman Spin.
Miles >>
Miles, Not sure I understand the reply. Yes, I read about it on RCM page and then was surprised to see them for sale (Canadian residents only????) from Talisman.
So, you think these wont hold up? I don't work for Talisman, but the $20 face is intriguing, they seem to have alot going for them.
Capt, you are saying that Canada may not honor the face value of their legal tender coin? (Why? chem trails?)
Ciccio, these seem to have many elements going for them. I am going to pick a few up!
I have sold many 10 gram JM bars for $20-$30 and they do not have $20 face value.
Loves me some shiny!
A link to an old (presumably, or this is a raging bargain) ad: Linkage
<< <i>Didn't the Canadians dishonor the face value of the 1976 Olympic silver coins when silver ended up in the toilet in the 1980's????????
TD >>
I believe this is true. I don't believe this would happen again with these coins, considering the silver bull market is really just starting, but I suppose it could. Either way, people will probably have trouble spending them at face value even if they retain legal tender status. Good luck trying to spend one of these in public
<< <i>I ordered 3 coins yesterday. All those 9s are pretty cool!
The RCM ships them for free, so it's like a currency exchange without fees (though, I will pay the shipping from Canada to the US). >>
The mint site states these are only available to Canadians. How are you doing this?
<< <i>
<< <i>I ordered 3 coins yesterday. All those 9s are pretty cool!
The RCM ships them for free, so it's like a currency exchange without fees (though, I will pay the shipping from Canada to the US). >>
The mint site states these are only available to Canadians. How are you doing this? >>
I have a friend who lives in Montreal, so I added his shipping address to my account with the RCM. He is going to forward me the package as soon as he receives it.
My isssue with this RCM issue is:
You can't get it directly as the RCM is not shipping to the US, currently.
You can deal with Talisman; although, I think their ad is misleading as they make it very difficult to ascertain the real silver content,
which is not an ounce. Then they claim is is a double play of $8 of silver and $20 face value - you can't have boith at the same time. Again misleading.
Then they take your money for an indefinite period upfront and ship later. Fine if the silver market wasn't moving so fast.
I have rarely found that RCM material holds the value of American bullion/proof regardless of the mintage numbers (often super-low for the RCM).
So, for a few "$20" coins, no big deal. For a silver play, I would pass. Finally, I have found Talisman to be on the high end of retail.
I much prefer APMEX or Gainesville, all things considered.
Miles
I knew it would happen.
linky, eh?
<< <i>From a site for a company that buys foreign coins, about the Canadian Olympic silver coins being demonetized:
linky, eh? >>
Hosers.
appreciate the insight but I am going to disagree on this one.
Carew4me:
My isssue with this RCM issue is:
You can't get it directly as the RCM is not shipping to the US, currently. A bonus if we in the states can get them then
You can deal with Talisman; although, I think their ad is misleading as they make it very difficult to ascertain the real silver content, This is a RCm issue , talisman does not need to edumacate me on this issue, the innerweb serves that purpose, the amount of silver is but a few mouse clicks away
which is not an ounce. Then they claim is is a double play of $8 of silver and $20 face value - you can't have boith at the same time. Again misleading. no, the $20 face value is unique, not a symbolic dollar but $20 Canadian AND you get 1/4 .9999 silver per coin, so to me there is a double dip in play
Then they take your money for an indefinite period upfront and ship later. RCM website them selves state that shipping is delayed
Fine if the silver market wasn't moving so fast.
I have rarely found that RCM material holds the value of American bullion/proof regardless of the mintage numbers (often super-low for the RCM). not a pure bullion play, $20 face, 1/4 oz slver, 200,000 mintage , imposed limits
So, for a few "$20" coins, no big deal. For a silver play, I would pass. Finally, I have found Talisman to be on the high end of retail. I have only one prior purchase with them, i don't consider them as a bullion , more of a
collector coin , who else has svarski crystal(sp) maples? etc
I much prefer APMEX or Gainesville, all things considered.
Miles
I agree, not a pure bullion play, but a interesting low mintage , high face value hybrid that you can snag at a low cost.
Loves me some shiny!
<< <i>Ciccio, when does one buy those 10th oz coins, they are snazzy!---------------------BigE >>
I have been on the hunt for over one year, then I found it on eBay. It sells way over spot, though!
I tried to find one in Italy but my dad got a price of 170 euros (when gold was $1300). I eventualy paid it $170.
the $20 face value is unique, not a symbolic dollar but $20 Canadian AND you get 1/4 .9999 silver per coin, so to me there is a double dip in play
I'm really not trying to talk you out of these if you like them as coins, but.........................
I think that these don't have much going for them, and I don't see these as having the advantages you cite. It is "either, or" and not really a double play.
Consider the two factors that you think of as having two-pronged value:
1) At $20 Canadian, this coin is being sold at a 150% premium over spot. Would you put $10,000 into these as bullion at a 150% premium when there are alternatives available for less than 3% premium? I wouldn't (and I don't think you would either)
2) With a baseline of $20 Canadian, and a selling price of $27.95/ea, you are paying a 40% premium over face value for that floor on the selling price of the coin. You can do the same thing with (40) one dollar bills at 40% less in order to accomplish the same purpose.
In the case of both (1) and (2) above, I see potential downsides of 147% and 40%, respectively. I therefore don't think that this is the first "no downside" coin.
If you collect Canadian bullion, then it's a buy. If you collect low mintage coins and believe that 200,000 is a low mintage, then it's a buy. If you think that .9999 purity is cool, then it's a buy. If you like the design, then it's a buy. No argument there.
But I couldn't justify this coin as a bullion piece or as a safeguard against currency fluctuation. That's just how I see it. Others may disagree.
I knew it would happen.
No one (who is in the know about PM investing) is buying these as an investment in silver. They're a novelty that basically costs nothing. It's now a $20 coin sitting in a drawer rather than a $20 bill sitting in your wallet. On the offchance silver goes $80+, now your little coin is better than that $20 bill in your wallet by a marginal amount. But, again, really no one is buying them counting on that happening.
Also, as has been said, there is no "double dip" play here. The coin is either worth it's $20 face value or it's silver content melt value (if silver ever breaks $80/oz). Trying to argue different like Talisman coins is just wrong, and outright misleading.
This is not a pure bullion play, no one has stated that.
You cant make the argument that its simply a $20 coin as opposed to having a $20 bill in your wallet.
They don't print just 200,000 $20 bills nor do those bills have 1/4 oz of precious metal.
You do get the protection of the face value while enjoying the benefits of the low mintage and the silver content.
they will never be mutually exclusive. that is double dip. If this was just a $20 coin,say to replace bills, no one would care.
It the other features that make it a stress free addition.
Loves me some shiny!
<< <i>They don't print just 200,000 $20 bills nor do those bills have 1/4 oz of precious metal. >>
Actually they do just print 200,000 bills or less for some runs. (i'm a currency guy)
I think this coin is pretty cool, thinking about buying 2 or 3. I'm seeing them sell at about $40ea on ebay give or take a few bucks. Pretty hard to beat that. I thought in the coin world a 200,000 mintage would be considered VERY low. Is this just not the case?
<< <i>they will never be mutually exclusive >>
I think they are mutually exclusive.
I see a coin with FV of C$20 or a silver coin worth $8 melt.
I don't know how you can extract the silver from the thing and leave C$20, nor do I see how anyone will accept it as C$20 and then say "let me give you the silver value on top" simply because the silver can't be extracted from the C$20 without destroying the C$20.
I'd buy these for C$20 because they only have 1/4toz of silver in them. It seems over-priced at anything higher.
Who buys $1000FV bags of 90% silver for (melt + $1000) ???
<< <i>Actually they do just print 200,000 bills or less for some runs. (i'm a currency guy) >>
How true..but in most cases they are star note runs. Some even as low as 9600...
Then some guy named Les Fox took 10,000 face in gold Balboas to the central back of Panama and asked to convert them into other money, and was refused. He did the same at several other Franklin Mint issuing countries, and was turned down at every one of them. Then he wrote a story.
Though I am Canadian by ancestry on both sides and grew up in Detroit watching Canadian TV and listening to Canadian radio, I have to say that Canada has become a third-world country when it comes to their coinage.
TD
<< <i>
<< <i>they will never be mutually exclusive >>
I think they are mutually exclusive.
I see a coin with FV of C$20 or a silver coin worth $8 melt.
I don't know how you can extract the silver from the thing and leave C$20, nor do I see how anyone will accept it as C$20 and then say "let me give you the silver value on top" simply because the silver can't be extracted from the C$20 without destroying the C$20. >>
Exactly this. You can't melt your silver and spend it too!
<< <i>I'm an old fart, and I remember all the ads back in the 1970's after gold became legal offering Franklin Mint gold coins from places like Panama, Bermuda, the Bahamas, Jamaica, etc. One big selling point was that even if gold went down, the coins were still good for their full face values in the countries of issue.
Then some guy named Les Fox took 10,000 face in gold Balboas to the central back of Panama and asked to convert them into other money, and was refused. He did the same at several other Franklin Mint issuing countries, and was turned down at every one of them. Then he wrote a story. >>
Interesting, but really not all that surprising.
<< <i>
I have to say that Canada has become a third-world country when it comes to their coinage. >>
That's an... interesting.. comment. Troll much?
<< <i>
<< <i>Actually they do just print 200,000 bills or less for some runs. (i'm a currency guy) >>
How true..but in most cases they are star note runs. Some even as low as 9600... >>
You must visit my side of the board from time to time.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>they will never be mutually exclusive >>
I think they are mutually exclusive.
I see a coin with FV of C$20 or a silver coin worth $8 melt.
I don't know how you can extract the silver from the thing and leave C$20, nor do I see how anyone will accept it as C$20 and then say "let me give you the silver value on top" simply because the silver can't be extracted from the C$20 without destroying the C$20. >>
Exactly this. You can't melt your silver and spend it too!
<< <i>I'm an old fart, and I remember all the ads back in the 1970's after gold became legal offering Franklin Mint gold coins from places like Panama, Bermuda, the Bahamas, Jamaica, etc. One big selling point was that even if gold went down, the coins were still good for their full face values in the countries of issue.
Then some guy named Les Fox took 10,000 face in gold Balboas to the central back of Panama and asked to convert them into other money, and was refused. He did the same at several other Franklin Mint issuing countries, and was turned down at every one of them. Then he wrote a story. >>
Interesting, but really not all that surprising.
<< <i>
I have to say that Canada has become a third-world country when it comes to their coinage. >>
That's an... interesting.. comment. Troll much? >>
When a country de-monitizes a coin they just produced (1976 olympic coins), that is the very first sign of a 3rd world country in regards to its coinage. With all of its financial problems, at least the U.S. has honored every single coin they have ever produced at the mint. Your "troll" comment is WAY out of line.
That question has been answered. If you want to pay nearly $80 per ounce for silver and gamble that the Canadian's will back the $20 face value..
(history shows otherwise), then "zero" downside may be a stretch.
Miles
I left one to my friend in Montreal (a small gift for the favor and his son's first birthday in 2011).
They are really nice (sorry for the bad pic). Well worth what I paid, CA$20.
<< <i>Didn't the Canadians dishonor the face value of the 1976 Olympic silver coins when silver ended up in the toilet in the 1980's????????
TD >>
Way to stay classy, Canadian government. Sheesh.
I was looking at some at my local coin guys shop the other day , he is selling them for melt he offered some to me the other day . I passed on them they aren't much to look at. He had a large set of them in one case and also some singles in individual boxes.