Have you ever been to a small country coin auction?
hchcoin
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I just returned from a small country auction in the middle of nowhere. I went to look at a shotgun for my son but was also happy because they were selling some "rare" coins. I watched as frenzied bidders bought circulated clad bicentenial half dollars for $3.50 a piece and bought circulated clad Ike dollars for $6 to $8.50 a piece. Common mint and proof sets were going for around $15 a piece at the low end of bidding. Cull indianhead pennies were going for $1.50 to $3.50 a piece. Someone bought circulated steel cents for over $1 a piece. I saw three well worn CC morgans sell for $875, $250 and $175. The $875 was for a VG to F 1893CC the other two were 82 and 83's. Needless to say, I didn't return with any rare coins or any firearms. The place was packed and it was a feeding frenzy. I actually enjoyed watching the bidding but could not believe the prices. Wow!
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<< <i>I just returned from a small country auction in the middle of nowhere. I went to look at a shotgun for my son but was also happy because they were selling some "rare" coins. I watched as frenzied bidders bought circulated clad bicentenial half dollars for $3.50 a piece and bought circulated clad Ike dollars for $6 to $8.50 a piece. Common mint and proof sets were going for around $15 a piece at the low end of bidding. Cull indianhead pennies were going for $1.50 to $3.50 a piece. Someone bought circulated steel cents for over $1 a piece. I saw three well worn CC morgans sell for $875, $250 and $175. The $875 was for a VG to F 1893CC the other two were 82 and 83's. Needless to say, I didn't return with any rare coins or any firearms. The place was packed and it was a feeding frenzy. I actually enjoyed watching the bidding but could not believe the prices. Wow! >>
Yes. Coins seem to bring insane prices. I bet they all thought they were getting bargains. Also, shill bidding is rampant at these auctions.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
And there was absolutely no collusion between dealers, just a few "agreements"
I also once paid a local attorney to bid for me in a sale. I paid him $150 an hour. His instructions: "Dress like a farmer and say nothing". You'd be surprised how bidding against a "rube" rather than a known professional can soften the last 25% of a bidder's resolve.
San Marino?
Grand Fenwick?
<< <i>Do you mean like Liechtenstein?????
San Marino?
Grand Fenwick?
How about this: Have you ever been to a small coin auction out in the country?
<< <i>... Most of the crap sells for way too much, many of the truly nice or rare coins sell waaaay cheap. ... >>
You can say that again. I picked up my 1848 D/D $5 piece at a small auction in rural Maine that sometimes sells coins. It was raw, in a 2x2 marked VF.
I sent it to PCGS, where it slabbed as AU53, then sent it to _ _ _, where it stickered gold. The last time I checked the pop reports, I think it was a pop 15/3 coin.
One of my top 5 all-time favorite scores!
<< <i>
<< <i>Do you mean like Liechtenstein?????
San Marino?
Grand Fenwick?
How about this: Have you ever been to a small coin auction out in the country?
Sure. There is a guy named Sonny Henry who does sales about 100 miles west of Chicago. I went out there one time a few days before the sale, looked at all the lots and made notes, figured my bids and went back for the sale. Didn't buy a single coin.
However, the state of Illinois once had their unclaimed property sale at the state of illinois building in downtown Chicago two blocks from the coin shop I was working at at the time. Did the lot viewing thing, made notes and went back. Didn't buy a thing. Saw a Krugerrand go for +$75 when we were selling them for +$25.
Had a lady come into the store two days later with one of the bags of silver dimes she had just bought. I offered her about 80% of what she paid. She couldn't understand why she had lost money.
TD
<< <i>
<< <i>Do you mean like Liechtenstein?????
San Marino?
Grand Fenwick?
How about this: Have you ever been to a small coin auction out in the country?
Thanks for the clarification...I also was wondering what small country was holding the auctions.
All the lots were numbered, of course (i.e. lot #1 through lot #396).
However, they auctioned the lots off in random order. In other words, they'd sell lot #1, then lot #296, then lot #44, etc.
Since you never knew when "your" lots were being auctioned, you had to pay attention throughout the entire night. And you couldn't go anywhere (the bethroom, to the snack bar, etc.) for fear that you would miss a lot you wanted to bid on.
Also -- they occasionally would put 3 or 4 similar (but not identical) lots together and sell them as a "group lot". In other words they would say, "Now we are going to sell lot #15 and lot #371 and lot #206 as one lot."
Lastly -- the snack bar food reminded me of an old Saturday Night Live skit, for some reason. They had only 2 choices: macaroni salad, or banana cream pie. I passed on both...
The people running it were really nice though. I saw no shilling going on, and they appeared to be working the book bids honestly.
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<< <i>I have also seen MCMVII $20's, proof gold, an unc Cal $2 1/2, and an 1843 $2 1/2 catalogued as prooflike mint state (est $800-$1200) that sold for $57.5K + 15% because it was gem proof (resold $85K after slabbing). Most of the crap sells for way too much, many of the truly nice or rare coins sell waaaay cheap. More proof Lincs and Buffs that I can count. And more counterfeit gold than I can count too. How about a gem 1912 $20 ($15K-20K) sell for $1200 (gold was $700 at the time).
And there was absolutely no collusion between dealers, just a few "agreements"
I also once paid a local attorney to bid for me in a sale. I paid him $150 an hour. His instructions: "Dress like a farmer and say nothing". You'd be surprised how bidding against a "rube" rather than a known professional can soften the last 25% of a bidder's resolve. >>
On not being allowed to bid at the auction, how did it help them to block you for their "turf" ? Wouldn't your bids just increase the selling prices?
.............I know I am missing something here. If you care to share more, it would be interesting to learn a little more what you were banned for?
ETA.....I think I get it......it was "bidders" that asked you to leave (not sellers)?
......I collect old stuff......
<< <i>
<< <i>Do you mean like Liechtenstein?????
San Marino?
Grand Fenwick?
How about this: Have you ever been to a small coin auction out in the country?
Do you mean half dimes? Silver three cent pieces? Gold dollars? Maybe Panama Pills?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Do you mean like Liechtenstein?????
San Marino?
Grand Fenwick?
How about this: Have you ever been to a small coin auction out in the country?
Do you mean half dimes? Silver three cent pieces? Gold dollars? Maybe Panama Pills?
O.K., how about this: Have you ever been to a coin auction that was held out in the country in a small town?
I went there ONCE, too. Once being the operative word.
There was more going on there than one thinks.
<< <i>Now how would one go about consigning material to a country auction
It is rather easy and at 15 to 20% commision not too bad if the stuff does well....it can also go the other way too!
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I did buy 22 raw Morgans @ 10 bucks a piece four years ago at an estate auction held in my county fairground permanent building.
The strangest thing offered for sale at these auctions - THE WALKING TACO - An opened bag of Dorito chips with cheesy sauce poured on them. Locals love the WT, me, I'm not from here, I can't get the hang of the WT.
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<< <i>Just a few days ago I went to one here in New England. This one had a few twists I hadn't seen before.
All the lots were numbered, of course (i.e. lot #1 through lot #396).
However, they auctioned the lots off in random order. In other words, they'd sell lot #1, then lot #296, then lot #44, etc.
Since you never knew when "your" lots were being auctioned, you had to pay attention throughout the entire night. And you couldn't go anywhere (the bethroom, to the snack bar, etc.) for fear that you would miss a lot you wanted to bid on.
Also -- they occasionally would put 3 or 4 similar (but not identical) lots together and sell them as a "group lot". In other words they would say, "Now we are going to sell lot #15 and lot #371 and lot #206 as one lot."
Lastly -- the snack bar food reminded me of an old Saturday Night Live skit, for some reason. They had only 2 choices: macaroni salad, or banana cream pie. I passed on both...
The people running it were really nice though. I saw no shilling going on, and they appeared to be working the book bids honestly. >>
Did they have any official explanation for this bizarre behavior? Obviously they would not announce that they were colluding with certian bidders, but did they even pretend to have a rational explanation????
TD
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<< <i>This one had a few twists I hadn't seen before. >>
I was at an auction which included a nearly complete set of Morgans in a Whitman album. The auctioneer started the bidding by stating that bidding was per coin and the high bidder could take as many coins from the book (bidder's choice) as he wanted, at the winning bid amount for each coin selected. After the winning bidder picked the coin(s) wanted, the whole process started over again.
It was interesting watching everybody trying to keep track of which dates were left after each round of bidding.
My Ebay Auctions
Got it in three notes or less.
Also: NEVER leave a mail bid at a country auction.
While the auctioneer may have no idea what the coins are worth, many of them have a certain feral shrewdness.
This one puts me in a wonderful light
Attending another of these sales, I go the day before to inspect the lots. I start flirting with a woman (warm, friendly, attractive, intelligent, funny) working for the auction company who turns out to be the auctioneer's girlfriend. She seems a bit ambivalent about that status.
The coins are mostly the crap. The auctioneer tells me he needs someone to catalogue the foreign coins by country, date, and denomination, explicitly with no value or estimate) and he'll give me $50 to do it, but stay away from that woman or "I might have a problem getting some of my bids recognized".
I deliberately misdescribe several bullion 10 rubles as 5 rubles. No one, not the auctioneeer, not one single person in the audience catches it and I buy them. This while MS61 GSA CC's are selling for $225 each. But, sadly, I mentioned to the auctioneer I was curious about 4 (1920's perhaps) Erte' designed bottles (perhaps brandy?) coming right after the coins. He says maybe someone will pay $200 per. I call up a friend at Sotheby's who tells me it's $900 each on three of them and $1200 on the last.
The lots are arranged in lot order around the walls of a quite large room. The coins sell and I pay a massive $400 for bullion underbid by people who just could not have looked.
The Erte' bottles are next. Then an announcement that some lots will be sold out of order.
Two hours sitting there watching furniture, very nicely framed assembly line oil paintings, hex signs, butter churns, arrowhead collections, music boxes, etc., and, since it's clear I'm not leaving, our auctioneeer decides it's Erte' time.
It's a Chinese auction. Opens $1000, then $500, $400, $300, $200 and I bid. There is absolutely no action on the floor and, just as I am getting that twitchy feeling that anticipates a "rip", the auctioneer bids $300. Nobody but us and I let him buy it at $700. Again, again, and $900 on the last.
How did I disappoint myself?
I never got that lovely woman's phone number.
Weird scenes inside the gold mine.
Re: another thread. Was this a spiritual slip on my part, or fully sociopathic behavior?
<< <i>[q}ETA.....I think I get it......it was "bidders" that asked you to leave (not sellers)? >>
Got it in three notes or less >>
That time...
<< <i>Do country bumpkin auction houses use potted palms for imaginary bids, or bales of hay??????????
No, they usually have enough of the natural kind of bumpkins. From the previous poster, I think most of those auctioneers do have an idea of the value of what they are selling.
Isn't this a form of theft?? Just sayin'....... certainly not ethical and on top of this you were trying to make time with the auctioneer's girlfriend? ..... hope you don't attend any auctions where I have items up for sale.
the shills were putting their own stuff in with the legitimate items at the "estate" auctions I was attending and they were in cahoots with
the auctioneer, not my friend, to drive up the prices and split the profits. I saw a lot of common date melt coins going way over value to those
unaware they were being shilled.
<< <i>I deliberately misdescribe several bullion 10 rubles as 5 rubles. No one, not the auctioneeer, not one single person in the audience catches it and I buy them. >>
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Do country bumpkin auction houses use potted palms for imaginary bids, or bales of hay??????????
Sometimes it's the staff at the snack bar.
<< <i>"I deliberately misdescribe several bullion 10 rubles as 5 rubles. No one, not the auctioneeer, not one single person in the audience catches it and I buy them."
Isn't this a form of theft?? Just sayin'....... certainly not ethical and on top of this you were trying to make time with the auctioneer's girlfriend? ..... hope you don't attend any auctions where I have items up for sale. >>
Never said I was proud of this.
An interesting point about the auctioneer's "ownership rights" per his girlfriend.
I don't catalog for major auction houses. Consign to them and you're safe(r)
<< <i>
<< <i>I deliberately misdescribe several bullion 10 rubles as 5 rubles. No one, not the auctioneeer, not one single person in the audience catches it and I buy them. >>
So, you're a crook. Thanks for warning us. >>
I never said I was proud of this ethical failure.
But, in fairness, I have inhaled, so I'm a drug addict. And I'm old enough to have had kids in the 70's and they were spanked, so I'm a child abuser. And I've had non-coital sex in states when and where it was legally sodomy, so I'm a sexual deviate. And I know coin doctors, so I'm an enabler. And.. and... and...
And this guy first screwed with me and then I screwed him back based on his arrogance, ignorance, and lack of of due diligence. And so I'm a human being.
Maybe the thing that pushed me over the edge was his deliberate explicit instruction not to value the lots and his more than slightly unethical stance in telling me he would not honor my bids.
I was still wrong.
But I thought the example might prove useful in describing the games people play. And bear in mind, I owned my own behavior rather than saying "A friend told me he...".
A little bit of redemption (at least in my own heart and perhaps my HP's) for making the amends, whether you judge it or not.
And every cop is a criminal, and all the sinners saints.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>You're forgiven. Don't let it happen again.
How magnanimous.
Leo
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<< <i>ColonelJessup, you have anything else you wanna fess up to? Murder anyone and got away with it?
I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.
<< <i>Do country bumpkin auction houses use potted palms for imaginary bids, or bales of hay??????????
The one I went to had a rooster sitting on the fence, it would cuck-a-doodle doo now and then and the auctioneer would recognize the chicken as a bidder, people would laugh.
In all honesty, the one time I did attended one of these country tent sales, they had nothing but generic Morgan dollars in 2X2 flips, some with a lot of wear, some AU's and some low grade 63's that the auctioneer claimed were all BU. They were also selling depression era glass and cuckoo clocks. I bought nada.
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