My NEWP: 1953S OBW Franklin Roll- NEW INTERESTING COMMENT
Coiny
Posts: 711 ✭✭
It just arrived today!I will share pics of my "new baby" with you!
Been dreaming about this addition to my OBW roll collection.
This is now the centerpiece of my growing 31 OBW Franklin roll collection. It is about as pristine as you can picture. Very tight roll, looks like it was well cared for over the years and clearly an original!
May never get opened under my watch... bought this one as an investment along with the others. I believe lots of appreciation going forward in Franklin OBWs as the years go on.
Anyone else think this is the cats meow?
Been dreaming about this addition to my OBW roll collection.
This is now the centerpiece of my growing 31 OBW Franklin roll collection. It is about as pristine as you can picture. Very tight roll, looks like it was well cared for over the years and clearly an original!
May never get opened under my watch... bought this one as an investment along with the others. I believe lots of appreciation going forward in Franklin OBWs as the years go on.
Anyone else think this is the cats meow?
Coiny
0
Comments
Russ, NCNE
They're saying, "Look at us!"
<< <i>Crack that puppy open! Probably loaded with FBL examples.
Russ, NCNE >>
I agree with Russ!
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
But... me think (as does Bushmaster) that the probability is low for FBLs.
I purchased it betting that I can double my investment in its present OBW form inside of 24 months
Then again my 66-65FBL MS Franklin Registry set is only short one FBL... oh so tempting!!!
Always nice though to have the option
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but why does one side of the roll look properly tight while the other is not as nice?
<< <i>tomb has a good point about a lack of any toning...
but why does one side of the roll look properly tight while the other is not as nice? >>
Nice catch fc.........the "other" side does look a little fuzzy.
The crease is only on the part showing in the picture - next to the writing. as I turn the roll around, there is absolutely no crease.
It is also exactly where the first coin edge meets the wrapper so just by handling, I can see how the crease could occur.
Ricks new book also refers to the 53S saying that brilliant examples are very common.
"most coins are quite brilliant, with excellent luster".
<< <i>Ricks new book also refers to the 53S saying that brilliant examples are very common.
"most coins are quite brilliant, with excellent luster". >>
That would make sense since 18 coins in each roll aren't exposed.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>but why does one side of the roll look properly tight while the other is not as nice? >>
That was my thought exactly. And the white coins are strange, but you say Tomaska says that's not unusual so....
<< <i>
<< <i>Ricks new book also refers to the 53S saying that brilliant examples are very common.
"most coins are quite brilliant, with excellent luster". >>
That would make sense since 18 coins in each roll aren't exposed.
Russ, NCNE >>
Exactly. What about the two end coins that presumably should have some sort of toning?
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
didn't do a search to see if there was a fidelity trust Co in Philadelphia at that time
how can you be sure they are all San Frans? or Franklins?
double in 24 months is good
I like when you can double now
<< <i>dj,
The crease is only on the part showing in the picture - next to the writing. as I turn the roll around, there is absolutely no crease.
It is also exactly where the first coin edge meets the wrapper so just by handling, I can see how the crease could occur.
Ricks new book also refers to the 53S saying that brilliant examples are very common.
"most coins are quite brilliant, with excellent luster". >>
Ok i see now that also the crease doesnt seem to go all the way around. Depending how much you have invested in this roll i would open that baby right up!
chemically approved wrapper as well as outside airtight containers and then inside a box with a tight lid. This 53S OBW came to me with the same care
and wrapping. Will an end roll coin still tone if wrapped in that fashion? Beats me... but I would guess, maybe not if air cannot get to it?
If you were able to hold this OBW you would, there is no way this is fake or has been opened. The fibers coming off the wrapper are as real as real can be and
the end roll is as tight as possibly could be.
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
I am only hoping that the answer to that question will bother someone so much that they will buy this roll from me for many thousands of dollars.
Thats why I bought it..... when the TPGs MS65-66's slow down to trickle of additions, my OBW rolls ( and other collectors) will skyrocket in value
as the last "hoard" of the unknown treasures!!
<< <i>No one knows... but my experience has been that every OBW roll I have opened ( about 50 over the years) all have had same year and mint coins.
I am only hoping that the answer to that question will bother someone so much that they will buy this roll from me for many thousands of dollars.
Thats why I bought it..... when the TPGs MS65-66's slow down to trickle of additions, my OBW rolls ( and other collectors) will skyrocket in value
as the last "hoard" of the unknown treasures!! >>
Coiny- no doubt you have what many Franklin lovers see as the quintessential to the mother lode outside of a bag of 93-S Morgans still sewn sshut.
But as many have said- no toning on the end coins is very suspicious, and to be honest- that ink looks to new to be 50+ years old sitting in a bank vault that was hermetically sealed from all outside environments.
I have purchased 9 rolls of different dates from the 50's (none in a 53-S) over the last 4 years- none have blast white enders, now the 60's were just starting to break color- but the 50's were toning brownish to slight plum in color.
They now sit in a ziploc baggie at the SDB.
I would be leery of this roll - sorry...
If I had to bet, I'd bet it's been opened.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
My gut says this roll was searched and those nice 2 end coins, heads and tails were placed there for a reason.
Both roll ends don't match and I don't want to see brilliant white 55 year old silver coins on the ends.
<< <i>No one knows... but my experience has been that every OBW roll I have opened ( about 50 over the years) all have had same year and mint coins.
I am only hoping that the answer to that question will bother someone so much that they will buy this roll from me for many thousands of dollars.
Thats why I bought it..... when the TPGs MS65-66's slow down to trickle of additions, my OBW rolls ( and other collectors) will skyrocket in value
as the last "hoard" of the unknown treasures!! >>
What happens when the new owner rips (gently tears) it open only NOT to find what you assumed what was in the roll?
How can you be sure?
I'm dissappointed, but not suprized, to read some of the "expert commentary" posts in regards to your purchase. I always see alot of wolfpack mentality posts, which is why I do not post on the forums. It is human nature to be skeptical and everybody has a right to their opinion. The roll is exactly as it is represented, as tight as it gets, and yes, no toning on the end coins. These characteristics are absolutly correct and consistant with OBW's of this date, if you can ever find any. I have collected Franklin's for over 30 years and consider myself knowlegeable on the subject and also have been on Ebay for 11 years with 100% perfect positive feedback. I also was the person who discovered the very first 1959 Bugs bunny ( which graded a 62FBL). It came from a U.S.Treasury OBW roll, there were actually 2- 59 Bugs in the roll, the other being a 64. Also, my Franklin PCGS Registry sets, Franklin Half Dollars Complete Variety Set ,FBL and non FBL are both currently ranked #1 , Northcoast Franklin collection. I think my credentials will speak for themselves. Please, don't let the naysayers and chronic doubters ruin your moment.
As for me, I enjoy hearing the thoughts both pros and cons and also understand that many will be skeptical with such a rare find. I do not plan to open the roll as I really do collect OBW's and getting seriously close to completing a full set of them for the Franklin series.
Down the road , if anyone wants to own this roll, you will at least know that I have it and we can begin private negotiations as every coin/roll I own is for sale at some price. I think this roll is a beauty, pristine and yes I believe is very real and wrapped at Fidelity Bank in Phila. in the original wrapper. I will never guarantee this rolls contents or any others as I was not present when it was wrapped. The unknown treasure possibility is why I collect OBW's. It is human nature to be curious and excited at the same time. This is what makes the hobby so much fun!
Thanks for all for the comments as that is the purpose of this forum. Best regards to all who took the time to respond to my post.
- and don't have a problem with the end coins being un-toned ........
but just looking at your pix ,
the image on the right has the wrapper looking as I'd expect on an orig. roll
....... but the end wrapping on the pix on the left looks much different
...but hey , orig. rolls of the 53-S date are certainly not rare - just unopened one's are I guess
this roll seems to be the same thing. it was bought because it is believed to be "sealed by the bank in 1953 and never unwrapped" by at least two collectors; many others tend to think otherwise. the twist is that there is only one way to know with a high degree of certainty, by unwrapping the roll, and that is unlikely to happen because the sole purpose for buying it is that is supposed to be "never opened" original. it borders on lunacy, but we each have our areas of collecting that drive us forward. this roll seems to fit the profile of an investment which is built on the hope of at least one more person being willing to buy something that he'll never open. not to be critical of coiny or the previous owner, but isn't that the basis of how their sale was orchestrated, built on the hope/belief that the roll has never been opened and never will be opened??
whoever the previous seller was, he's off the hook. when coiny sells the roll, the guy he bought it from is off the hook, and so on and so on until someone finally opens it and the truth is known. till that happens we just have an expensive House-of-Cards.
it makes me a little nuts just to think about it.
<< <i>Just as an FYI... the previous owner ( a major Franklin collector) had this to say about the posts......
I'm dissappointed, but not suprized, to read some of the "expert commentary" posts in regards to your purchase. I always see alot of wolfpack mentality posts, which is why I do not post on the forums. It is human nature to be skeptical and everybody has a right to their opinion. The roll is exactly as it is represented, as tight as it gets, and yes, no toning on the end coins. These characteristics are absolutly correct and consistant with OBW's of this date, if you can ever find any. I have collected Franklin's for over 30 years and consider myself knowlegeable on the subject and also have been on Ebay for 11 years with 100% perfect positive feedback. I also was the person who discovered the very first 1959 Bugs bunny ( which graded a 62FBL). It came from a U.S.Treasury OBW roll, there were actually 2- 59 Bugs in the roll, the other being a 64. Also, my Franklin PCGS Registry sets, Franklin Half Dollars Complete Variety Set ,FBL and non FBL are both currently ranked #1 , Northcoast Franklin collection. I think my credentials will speak for themselves. Please, don't let the naysayers and chronic doubters ruin your moment.
As for me, I enjoy hearing the thoughts both pros and cons and also understand that many will be skeptical with such a rare find. I do not plan to open the roll as I really do collect OBW's and getting seriously close to completing a full set of them for the Franklin series.
Down the road , if anyone wants to own this roll, you will at least know that I have it and we can begin private negotiations as every coin/roll I own is for sale at some price. I think this roll is a beauty, pristine and yes I believe is very real and wrapped at Fidelity Bank in Phila. in the original wrapper. I will never guarantee this rolls contents or any others as I was not present when it was wrapped. The unknown treasure possibility is why I collect OBW's. It is human nature to be curious and excited at the same time. This is what makes the hobby so much fun!
Thanks for all for the comments as that is the purpose of this forum. Best regards to all who took the time to respond to my post. >>
My question about why the end coins appear to have no toning was innocent enough and was formulated in a logical manner. I also was not out to prove the roll to be an aftermarket creation. However, the load of BS just fed to you by the seller stinks so bad that I have to state that now I believe you have been had and the seller is full of it. I can't prove one way or another virtually anything about this roll, but the heavy handed credentials along with subtle terms and not so subtle terms to possibly disparage those who question the roll leaves me very firm in this belief. Again, it might be original as described and I hope it is, but I am giving my opinion on the input.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
but wonder/question why a bank in Philadelphia has a roll of new coins from San Francisco when they were making the same thing a few miles away?
did they have better distribution channels back then?
But if you don't believe that OBW coin rolls can't be faked just take a quick look on ebay. Check out the supertight rolled coins with an Indian head cent at one end and a Lincoln cent at the other.
I could see it possible that the end coins would still be blast white today if the roll was vacuum sealed in 1953?
thinking about Schrodinger's Cat situations tends to make one's head spin...
if this roll is NEVER opened, it could have a 1953D on one end, a 54S on the other, and 63Ps in between, and it would NOT MATTER!
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
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<< <i>I have purchased and sold 5 rolls of original 53-S frankies over the years. I have never seen a roll out of the 30-40 I have seen from this bank, nor have I ever owner nor seen a roll with bright white coins like that, ever. My gut tells me something is south of cheese and the real risk is that many buyers like myself wouldn't touch that roll with a ten foot pole so you may not realize the profit you think you would when it comes time to sell. So many questions on its authenticity here will transfer when it comes time to sell. If I were in your shoes I would just open it as I think a BU opened roll would yield more money then a crap shoot gamble. >>
I agree with you, I bet 99 to 1 that is either a put together roll of au/unc sliders, or it is totally garbarge!! The wrapper doesn't even look real and the ink is very weak.
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I have some tulips for sale.
<< <i>I purchased it betting that I can double my investment in its present OBW form inside of 24 months
I have some tulips for sale.
Hah!
It's going to the moon. To the MOON, I tells ya!
Coin Rarities Online
Fidelity later became Fidelcor Bank.
Per Wikipedia:
Construction began in 1927 and the building was opened on June 1, 1928.[3] The building became premiere office space in the center of the city, becoming the home of major law firms among other tenants.[7] In 1953 steel and concrete pen houses were built at the back of the building to house air conditioning equipment.[3]
In July 1982 the parent company of Fidelity Bank, Fidelcor Inc., put Fidelity Building Corp. a subsidiary which owns The Fidelity Building and the neighboring Witherspoon Building, up for sale. In December of that year Fidelcor Inc. announced that the Al-Tajir Foundation, a real estate investment company owned by Mahdi Al Tajir, had agreed to buy Fidelity Building Corp. for US$63.5 million.[5] In 1983 the building was featured in the Eddie Murphy film Trading Spaces.[4]
The late 1980s saw an office building boom in the West Market Street neighborhood of Center City. Businesses vacated the Fidelity Building moving to the newly built office space. As a result the building's owners filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in 1992.[7][8] That same year the Fidelity Building Corp. was purchased by First Fidelity Bankcorp, a company formed from the merger of the building's original owners and First Fidelity Corp. of Newark, New Jersey in 1988.[9]
First Union Corporation took control of the building in 1995 when it bought Fidelity Bankcorp.[10] Shortly after taking over, First Union spent millions of dollars renovating the facade and interiors and modernizing the mechanical systems.[4] In 2000, First Fidelity Building Corp., a company controlled by First Union, put the Fidelity Building up for sale.[4] Later that year Nicholas Schorsch of the American Financial Resource Group and a group of investors bought the building for about US$110 million.[11] In 2006 256,000-square-foot portion of the lower floors of the building was sold to Resnick Development Corp., a subsidiary of Jack Resnick & Sons Inc. In April 2008 American Financial Realty Trust sold the remainder of the building to SSH Real Estate and Young Capital for US$57.7 million.[12]
During the 2000s the building became known as the Wachovia Building. Wachovia had become the building's largest tenant after merging with First Union Corp. early in the decade. In 2006 Wachovia re-negotiated its lease, which was set to expire in 2010. After looking at other potential new office space in Center City, Wachovia made a deal to stay in the Wachovia Building along with the neighboring Witherspoon Building and the nearby One South Broad and Widener Building until the 2020s.[13]
As far as the roll, my father-in-law, who was a big stockholder of Fidelity in the 1950's through the 1970's, told me several times that Fidelity offered a service to their coin collecting customers by wrapping rolls of all three mints starting in 1955 after the 1955 S-mint cent craze. As to whether Fidelity started this practice a couple of years earlier (or did this retroactively) is unknown.
In my opinion, there is a 25-75 chance that this roll is all S mint 1953's. The roll does appear to be original and more likely than not, unopened. It it is certainly a cool and very collectible obw roll to own. It will not double in the next 24 months because it has already more than tripled in the last 5-7 years. There is very strong collector interest among obw roll collectors of everything that is Philadelphia based but this happens to be an expensive roll and is dependent on the date/mm/possible FBL rarity valuation rather than the less costly historic paper wrapping historical interest.
<< <i>Wachovia made a deal to stay in the Wachovia Building along with the neighboring Witherspoon Building and the nearby One South Broad and Widener Building until the 2020s.[13] >>
Will Wachovia last that long?
After reading all the various comments 2 things come up repeatedly.
1)The difference in the fibers/apparent density of the paper when comparing the 2 crimps. I am not familiar enough with OBW from the era to know if the difference we see here is significant.
2) That crease. I just can't see how that crease could form in a full, tightly wrapped roll and leave the opposite side of the roll unmarred.
The two most obvious forces that could crease the paper like that on a roll that apparently tight would be:
--being dropped and hitting at certain angle.
--being struck on edge by a hammer, or some other implement (tee time?)
But either of these should show a flat spot in the paper opposite the crease, right?
3) The other obvious possibility is that the paper was creased prior to rolling. Again, I'd plead ignorance. I don't know enuff about the rolling mechanics involved. However it seems unlikely to me.
At any rate IMHO it would be a major folly to open the roll, and Coiny is not going to do that unless he is a bigger gambler than I think!
Opening it, on the other hand, would settle the question of originality. I would expect a very uniform pristine roll with matching edges and matching luster throughout, likely with several examples being obviously from the same die pair.
Many MS65s, a good chance for 1 or 2 MS66's, and likely none or few grading below MS64.
So just picture those creamy Gems in your mind, Dave.
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
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