A general grading question

Morganmanic · January 29, 2011 10:34AM

Hello Everyone

Since I am not an expert in the grading arena I was wondering how you all would grade a Lincoln penny given these parameters.

Obverse grades a F-12 and reverse grades VG-8. The difference could even be greater.

Would the overall coin grade a VG-8?

Ethically, I can not grade any higher than VG-8 but it seems a shame when the other side is a F-12 or better.

A little guidance and education would be appreciated.

Thanks

Cliff

coinguy1 · January 29, 2011 10:52AM

Generally, the obverse is more important, grading-wise, than the reverse. However, if you will be selling the coin in question, why not state your honest opinion (of the split grade) as you have, here?

PerryHall · January 29, 2011 10:58AM

I read somewhere that the overall grade weigh should usually be about 60% for the obverse and 40% for the reverse. Does this sound about right to you guys?

fivecents · January 29, 2011 11:15AM

The designs on the reverses of most US coins are busier with devices than the obverse designs. So the reverse tends to hide more in the way of imperfections. The obverse designs tend to have more open fields are the weakest link in the grading chain. So the obverse does tend to carry more grading weight than the reverse.

krueger · January 29, 2011 2:11PM

Correct me if I am wrong. Are not the obverses on US coins struck with the hammer die imparting a higher relief then the reverse anvil die.
This would be where the high points on the design are, therefore this side is given more weight in grading. There are a few exceptions where it was done in reverse to this, I think mercury dimes are one case.

Krueger

kurtdog · January 30, 2011 1:43PM

Cliff, what's the date and mint on that one, we may be able to be more specific.

lkeigwin · January 30, 2011 2:08PM

<< <i>Correct me if I am wrong. Are not the obverses on US coins struck with the hammer die imparting a higher relief then the reverse anvil die.
This would be where the high points on the design are, therefore this side is given more weight in grading. There are a few exceptions where it was done in reverse to this, I think mercury dimes are one case.

Krueger >>

The obverse is generally the anvil, not the hammer. But I don't get how either yields a higher relief.
Lance.

GrumpyEd · January 30, 2011 3:23PM

Is this an older Lincoln like teens-20s?

It might be one that had a really weak reverse die so what you see is not wear although on a circ it might get graded as if it was wear. The 60-40 sounds about right.

I've had older Lincolns with no wheat lines still get in the low MS grades.

pursuitofliberty · January 30, 2011 5:14PM

I'm no expert on grading, but I always saw truely split grade coins (circulated at least) as a bit of a rarity at more than one grade point - using choice grades as an intermediate scale (i.e I could see a 12/8, 30/20 or a 40/30 ... but not really a 30/12, 40/20 or 12/4 ... if that makes any sense)

Typically, if those coins are examined closer, some of it is (probably) striking annomlies

It seems then the grades get further split down (intermediates of intermediates), where a 20/12 becomes a 15, a 12/8 a 10, and similar

Based on your example, if the coin is really split that way, I might be tempted to either state the split grades, or call it a "VG 10, with claims to a full Fine but a weak reverse"

my humble opinion

291fifth · January 30, 2011 5:56PM

A coin is no better than its weakest side. There is no reason to be a generous grader when buying.

That said, just describe it accurately and see if a "live one" is willing to pay more than a VG8 price.

PerryHall · January 30, 2011 9:30PM

<< <i>A coin is no better than its weakest side. There is no reason to be a generous grader when buying. >>

So, you would pay the same for an AU/XF coin as a XF/XF coin? Good luck with that---the marketplace doesn't see it that way.

Morganmanic · January 30, 2011 9:54PM

<< <i>Cliff, what's the date and mint on that one, we may be able to be more specific. >>

Most of the difficult coins for me are the Lincoln pennies from 1929 to 1909. I have a lot of really nice obverse coins some in the EF range but the reverse often has only half the wheat lines or even if the wheat lines are separated they are so flat that they look merged together. I tend to agree 291fifth and the others that state essentially the coin is graded to its weakest attribute. I will post a few pictures after I get the kids of to school.

Cliff

BillJones · January 30, 2011 11:39PM

It all depends upon the date. Generally the obverse is the more important side with respect to grading, but the wheat ears are a grading point for the Fine grade; they should be complete.

The reason why I cite the date is that there are a number of date and mint mark combinations from the 1920s that were poorly struck from "tired dies." In those cases some allowances can be made if the surfaces appear to be the higher the grade.

I know it's against the current rules, but the old ANACS (when it was owned by the ANA) practice showing split grades does have validity in some cases.

SamByrd · January 31, 2011 1:44AM

<< <i>Generally, the obverse is more important, grading-wise, than the reverse. However, if you will be selling the coin in question, why not state your honest opinion (of the split grade) as you have, here? >>

A general grading question

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