So, the Coin Sniffer is pretty darn cool, but what about all those old time Blue Ribbon coppers alre

renomedphys

I mean, let's face it. Most if not all nice collectible large cents have been treated with Blue Ribbon or some other substance during a period when this was considered OK and beneficial. My guess is that this same rule applies to most any high-end copper that's at least 100 years old. So what now? I've got lots of PCGS certified copper, and if I submit it for a regrade, the Coin Sniffer will bark?

My guess is that this is accounted for in the analysis. I simply can't imagine that PCGS will buy back any coin that gets barked at, especially not market acceptable copper that has suffered the indignity of conservation at some point when it was acceptable. But my straight-up fear is that I'll end up getting hosed on some coin some day some way.

19Lyds

<< <i>I mean, let's face it. Most if not all nice collectible large cents have been treated with Blue Ribbon or some other substance during a period when this was considered OK and beneficial. My guess is that this same rule applies to most any high-end copper that's at least 100 years old. So what now? I've got lots of PCGS certified copper, and if I submit it for a regrade, the Coin Sniffer will bark?

My guess is that this is accounted for in the analysis. I simply can't imagine that PCGS will buy back any coin that gets barked at, especially not market acceptable copper that has suffered the indignity of conservation at some point when it was acceptable. But my straight-up fear is that I'll end up getting hosed on some coin some day some way. >>

It is my understanding, that PCGS stands behind their graded coins with a cash guarantee.

For regrades, the coin is "guaranteed" to grade at least what was assigned to the coin before PCGS cracked it out. If the coin sniffer detects a problem with the coin at that point in time, I don't think you'll be hung out to dry do to the grading guarantee.

Of course, the only real way to tell is by submitting something for regrade.

As a side note, when all those counterfeit 1896-O, 1900-O, and 1902-O ''Micro O'' Morgan Dollars were discovered a few years back, PCGS still offered a buy back on the coins they had previously graded as authentic. (Ref)

LindeDad

Have to wonder if this might be part and cause of PCGS changing their guarantee on copper a while back?

lkeigwin

The change to the copper guarantee was about color, and only for those graded or sold after 12/31/09. I don't think the looming sniffer had anything to do with it.

While it is true that the PCGS guarantee will kick in for regrades that are barked at, the guarantee rarely makes the owner whole because the payout is usually quite a bit less than the owner's purchase price. And the loss of a cherished coin is a bummer in itself.

I was surprised to see Blue Ribbon listed as a substance to be detected. It always thought it was fairly benign. Is Coincare also being sniffed?
Lance.

Lakesammman

I was surprised that finger oil sets it off - what if you scratched your nose before submitting the coin?

JapanJohn

The sniffer is indeed pretty cool. Some years ago I used to train people in Confined Space Entry and from a technological standpoint I have some questions I don't really expect anyone to answer. First I'm curious who made the gear. I think I probably know what company may have done it.

Also curious as to whether the LEL sensor is a methane gas sensor as well. They're pretty well known to be not very accurate. And I'm curious how often the machine is calibrated. We had to field cal our gear before every entry. Of course people's lives were on the line as well.

Just rumbling out loud because I have a little background in this area. I like that the grading companies are using technology to find problems. This is exactly the direction that they need to take in this day and age where anybody can buy a Roland Engraving machine and do magic.

John

leothelyon

Since Blue Ribbon coin conditioner or Coin care is getting rejected by the sniffer, what copper coin cleaning method is acceptable for coins to get graded?

edit to add; After reading a half dozen other past threads on the subject, PCGS has certified copper that has been cleaned with BR.

Coinflip

not sure how verdicare holds up to it, but alot of cent guys love that product

leothelyon

So now it's called Verdi-care. I have the BR somewhere, likely in my freezing garage. But anyway, we landed a large accumulation of coins recently and the large cents were held in a Whitman folder for a long time. The reverse sides of the coins have extracted a pattern from the backing paper of the blue folder. And on a couple, the obverses are heavily crusted from the folder. I really would like to clean those coins. One in particular, a 1834 Matron, Lg 8, Lg stars and medium rev. letters. So I'll order the stuff and see what happens.

Thanks for the heads up.


Leo

ricko

EVOO works....but takes a long time....Cheers, RickO

illini420

The sniffer detects lots of different chemical substances... just because it detects those substances doesn't mean they are automatically rejected as ungradable. Acetone is also one of the substances the sniffer can detect and we know that 100% pure acetone is acceptable in most cases to use on coins.

Have you seen anything from PCGS saying coins treated with Blue Ribbon are now ungradable???

Coinflip

<< <i>So now it's called Verdi-care.

Leo >>



Veridcare is different, I understand its mostly a conservant but it does wonders on verdigris. it was developed by Bad-Thad with a chemistry background and is the best thing I've seen, without going into results from a professional conservation service..
Verdicare

TPRC

<< <i>The sniffer detects lots of different chemical substances... just because it detects those substances doesn't mean they are automatically rejected as ungradable. Acetone is also one of the substances the sniffer can detect and we know that 100% pure acetone is acceptable in most cases to use on coins.

Have you seen anything from PCGS saying coins treated with Blue Ribbon are now ungradable??? >>



My question exactly. I've never used Blue Ribbon, but I don't think it gets rejected by pcgs, a least not automatically.

lkeigwin

I wasn't aware that acetone is one of the banned chemicals the Sniffer detects. Are you sure about that, Michael?

I can't remember all the chemicals I saw in the video PCGS made. Blue Ribbon, Verdicare were there. Other obscure ones I never heard of. And of course it detects some disturbing human fluids.

PCGS had no problem with copper I submitted that had, at one time, been treated with BR. But then I don't use Secure Plus and the Sniffer is rarely used for non-SP submissions. My understanding is that PCGS objects to BR and VC because they can lend an enhanced look to coins, maybe due to the oils in them. If a coin does not appear to be treated I doubt there would be a problem with non-SP submissions.
Lance.

Elcontador

As one of the most knowledgeable copper dealers once told me, products like coin care protect the surfaces of Large / Half Cent and help to maintain the attractive hue on Unc. copper. He applies it twice a year on his Unc. coppers, which he prefers to keep raw. Holders are not air tight, so without something like this substance on the coin's surfaces, something can happen to the coin's surfaces which is not good.

Ergo, I had a high end Braided Hair Half Cent begin to develop active PVC eight years after I bought the coin. I do not know what caused this to take place, but it would not have happened if something like coin care was applied to the coin on a regular basis. I would also like to point out that I bought the coin from one of the most reputable coin people on the planet, so it's not like he knew or even had a hint that it was a problem coin when he sold it to me.

Based on the above, I can't imagine that the sniffer would bag a coin with a product like coin care on its surfaces, though I cannot speak for the powers that be at PCGS.

After my experience, I will not buy a pre Coronet Head copper unless it is in an OGH. If it hasn't turned by now, it has been holdered over 20 years, so it's not likely to turn in the future. If that means I never own another one of these coins, so be it.

illini420

<< <i>I wasn't aware that acetone is one of the banned chemicals the Sniffer detects. Are you sure about that, Michael?


Lance. >>




I'm sure that the sniffer can detect acetone... but I do not think it's a "banned" chemical.

leothelyon

<< <i>So now it's called Verdi-care. I have the BR somewhere, likely in my freezing garage. But anyway, we landed a large accumulation of coins recently and the large cents were held in a Whitman folder for a long time. The reverse sides of the coins have extracted a pattern from the backing paper of the blue folder. And on a couple, the obverses are heavily crusted from the folder. I really would like to clean those coins. One in particular, a 1834 Matron, Lg 8, Lg stars and medium rev. letters. So I'll order the stuff and see what happens.

Thanks for the heads up.


Leo >>



I know, I'm quoting myself but is everyone cool with how I'm going about cleaning some large cents? I've checked some youtube videos and they weren't much help. From reading other past threads, it has been suggested to use pure acetone first then the conservant. But I don't want to remove the natural toning under the crude. MS70 was also suggested and I know I'm not using that stuff. Any suggestions?

magikbilly

<< <i>

<< <i>So now it's called Verdi-care. I have the BR somewhere, likely in my freezing garage. But anyway, we landed a large accumulation of coins recently and the large cents were held in a Whitman folder for a long time. The reverse sides of the coins have extracted a pattern from the backing paper of the blue folder. And on a couple, the obverses are heavily crusted from the folder. I really would like to clean those coins. One in particular, a 1834 Matron, Lg 8, Lg stars and medium rev. letters. So I'll order the stuff and see what happens.

Thanks for the heads up.


Leo >>



I know, I'm quoting myself but is everyone cool with how I'm going about cleaning some large cents? I've checked some youtube videos and they weren't much help. From reading other past threads, it has been suggested to use pure acetone first then the conservant. But I don't want to remove the natural toning under the crude. MS70 was also suggested and I know I'm not using that stuff. Any suggestions? >>




Hi Leo,

Maybe if you posted some photos of the coins in question?

Eric

keets

I had a high end Braided Hair Half Cent begin to develop active PVC eight years after I bought the coin.

that seems very unusual, for PVC to have been on a coin's surface for eight-plus years with no reaction. following your line of reasoning, coating the coin with BlueRibbon would have prevented PVC from adhering to the coin during those eight years but would have done nothing but trapped PVC that was on the coin when you bought it. instead of avoiding everything but "a pre Coronet Head copper unless it is in an OGH" the best remedy might be to just examine coins more closely and rinse them thoroughly with acetone whenever possible prior to storage.