150 gold coins seized from American in Mexico

goingbroke · January 25, 2011 7:40AM

150 gold coins seized from American in Mexico

2010-04-21 10:20:00

At least 150 gold coins were found in the baggage of a US citizen as he awaited a flight to Panama here at the Mexico City airport, officials have said.

Thomas Arnold Martin, 58, 'appeared visibly nervous', prompting agents to run his suitcase through a scanner, which detected several containers inside, the Mexican Public Safety Secretariat said Tuesday.

One container held 50 gold coins with the legend 'Suid Afrika-South Africa' on them and two others had 100 coins inside that said 'United States of America'.

The coins weighed a total of more than five kg, the secretariat said.

Though Martin showed a receipt for the purchase of 50 gold coins worth $1,171 each, he was turned over to prosecutors, the secretariat said. 5 kg of gold coins is worth $180,000 dollars. Not smart at all.(unless he got each of them for $10.00 LOL)

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gecko109 · January 25, 2011 7:46AM

So its now some sort of crime to carry gold coins on your person? WTF is this world coming to?

PreTurb · January 25, 2011 8:03AM

One container held 50 gold coins with the legend 'Suid Afrika-South Africa' on them and two others had 100 coins inside that said 'United States of America'.

What an outstanding journalistic effort.

PreTurb · January 25, 2011 8:06AM

WTF is this world coming to?

You're seeing a great example right here!

They will try to tighten the noose around those who don't embrace the corrupt fiat system. The war against cash is coming as well.

DNADave · January 25, 2011 9:19AM

<< WTF is this world coming to?

You're seeing a great example right here!

They will try to tighten the noose around those who don't embrace the corrupt fiat system. The war against cash is coming as well. >>

It would have been the same if they'd found over 10,000 in cash.

DrBuster · January 25, 2011 9:30AM

I thought bullion was ok to fly with.

Now, I will say, coming home from NY last week I had a roll of prezbux in my jacket. The sanner ate that roll twice, and the xray agent popped me for inspection...and the agent gave me a big ol sigh for having to pull out a roll of dollars as an xray issue.

JCMhouston · January 25, 2011 9:30AM

The law has been that way for quite a while, you have to declare if you are carrying over $10k in cash or equivalent. It was done to protect the children from drug dealers.

goingbroke · January 25, 2011 9:43AM

Under U.S. law the gold coins are legal tender and the gold coins would be assessed at minted face value not by gold value! The Eagle IS legal tender IE 1 ounce gold eagle is $50.00 At $50.00 each how many 1 ounce gold eagles would add up to $10.000? . I have a close friend that regularly transports shipments of gold Eagles to Wales. He tried to declare there value at much more then face the U.S. customs told him that he didn't need to do so because the coins minted values was far below $10.000.

gsa1fan · January 25, 2011 9:51AM

I would not think American laws apply in Mexico.

When I go to coin shows I just tell TSA officer, I'm a collector going to a show. Never had a problem~yet

Ciccio · January 25, 2011 9:55AM

<< Under U.S. law the gold coins are legal tender and the gold coins would be assessed at minted face value not by gold value! The Eagle IS legal tender IE 1 ounce gold eagle is $50.00 At $50.00 each how many 1 ounce gold eagles would add up to $10.000? >>

The US C&B Protection says:
"There is no duty on gold coins, medals or bullion, but if the value of the gold coins is over $10,000, it must be declared to a Customs and Border Protection (CBP) Officer and must be reported on the FinCEN 105 form."

Also:
"Failure to declare currency in amounts of over $10,000 can result in its seizure."

And in the definition of monetary instrument:
"Gold Bullion is not a monetary instrument for purposes of this requirement."

OPA · January 25, 2011 11:09AM

<< The law has been that way for quite a while, you have to declare if you are carrying over $10k in cash or equivalent. It was done to protect the children from drug dealers.

>>

Heck it's been like that for at least 20 years....You must declare anything in value of over $10k and hope you are flying to a country that does not impose a PM restriction.

Baley · January 26, 2011 3:41AM

Need more information about the specifics, to comment intelligently.

What did the guy's custom form look like? Did he declare the gold, or not?

What about his return ticket? Did he have one, or is this a one-way trip?

What's his story? Is this his "coin collection" or is he transporting/laundering money?

Does anyone else have "ownership" or claim to the gold and/or the money represented? (wife, business, etc?)

btw, same questions would apply whether the liquid asset is Gold, US or other national currency, bearer bonds, etc..

RGJohn · January 27, 2011 1:09AM

Whew. Has this fellow ever been seen or heard from in the ensuing 9 months since his detention?
Frankly, I would never confuse him with being Einstein as it is too well known to be remarked that in Mexico, the cops and the robbers are one and the same organization.
And, uh, Panama? Another destination known to be thoroughly legitimate. Uh-huh.
I don't think it was unreasonable to regard Tom as other than just another tourist passing through.
----
As for legality, take a drive around the border areas of the US in the southwest with that much gold in your car. Be sure to tell the truth when asked if you have any guns, large sums of money, etc. After dark is always best.
You will at least be heard from again, but I would bet almost any dollar amount that your gold will never be returned to you.

fishcooker · January 28, 2011 11:56PM

Sounds like a non-stop to Panama would have been a wise investment...

percyb · January 29, 2011 12:14AM

<< So its now some sort of crime to carry gold coins on your person? WTF is this world coming to? >>

The might have drawn and quartered him (no pun in tended). Maybe he'll rot in a Mexican prison. Good luck travelling south of the border.

yellowkid · January 29, 2011 7:55AM

I don't think this had anything to do with any law on the books, and I would bet that the gold will be in private hands tout suite.

goingbroke · January 29, 2011 10:21AM

I used to live in El Paso Texas on the Mexican border and no one I knew there would cross that border!. Years ago it was the place to go for Dental work, prescription's, and just plain FUN. But no more! Americans are now targets in Mexico!

goingbroke · January 30, 2011 10:33PM

Getting gold out of the country
At the moment there are no restrictions on getting gold out the US, but there is no guarantee that exchange controls could not be introduced in the future.

Most countries do not recognize gold as a monetary instrument (at least based on its market value), so gold can be moved freely and privately across most borders. In the United States, the law requires that an individual is required to report if s/he is leaving the country with more than $10,000, or foreign equivalent, in monetary instruments. So what is a monetary instrument? Domestic and foreign currency, travelers checks in any form, money orders, negotiable instruments, stock certificates, or any investment securities in bearer form. If you leave (or enter) the United States with more than $10,000 in monetary instruments, you must fill out form FinCen 105, which you can ask for upon arrival or departure. Gold bars and coins are not included on this list. One-ounce American Eagle coins have a face value of $50, therefore theoretically 200 Eagle coins would meet the $10,000 threshold. Of course, it is not illegal to depart the country with more than $10,000-- you simply have to declare the money... so if you are nervous or in doubt about leaving the country with your gold, just ask for the form.

In Canada, the rules are essentially the same. Entering or leaving the country with more than C$10,000 or foreign equivalent in monetary instruments must be declared to Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) on form E667.

There are certain countries, Taiwan and Uruguay for example, that require you to declare ownership of gold upon entry. Since laws change all the time, make sure you check your departing and arrival country’s customs information before the trip.

Frankcoins · February 7, 2011 10:59PM

<< So its now some sort of crime to carry gold coins on your person? WTF is this world coming to? >>

NOW?

It's called smuggling when you don't declare cash or valuables over a certain about when traveling between countries.

Jack Benny and George Burns were arrested for this in 1938!

Link

OPA · February 7, 2011 11:14PM

<< 

<< So its now some sort of crime to carry gold coins on your person? WTF is this world coming to? >>

NOW?

It's called smuggling when you don't declare cash or valuables over a certain about when traveling between countries.

Jack Benny and George Burns were arrested for this in 1938!

Link >>

Frank, for once, you hit the nail on the head.

mrearlygold · February 11, 2011 10:17AM

<< The law has been that way for quite a while, you have to declare if you are carrying over $10k in cash or equivalent. It was done to protect the children from drug dealers.

>>

150 gold coins seized from American in Mexico

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