Whenever a lot is sold like this and the seller uses the fact that it is unsearched as a selling point and then it clearly has been searched whether by the seller or someone prior then you as the buyer have every right to demand a full refund.
I believe the OP when he says the lot has zero key cards and when the boxes are even listed as "Commons" then something is clearly not as described. Now if the lot was sold as a bulk lot of cards from these years that is a whole different story. This lot was clearly listed as unsearched and full of possible stars and rookies and is not as described.
It will be interesting to see how the seller re-lists the cards. >>
Well, if she lists it as anything more than "here's some junk commons, help an old lady out" someone here will crucify her.
---------------------- Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989 ----------------------
Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq
The set was promoted by the seller with the following clauses:
"unsearched"
"collector's dream"
"many great and rare baseball cards and rookies"
The package arrived and corvette noted that the outside of the box was noted, "72 Commons, '68 Commons, and '70-'71 Commons." He also noted this is exactly what the box contained.
I have another clause to add to the seller's claims: ITEM SIGNIFICANTLY NOT AS DESCRIBED.
This is a classic case of a seller over-promoting an item to increase bidding. Whether she is truly as ignorant about baseball cards as she claims is questionable to me, but it's also kind of irrelevant. She had a case of commons and they were labeled as such, and she totally oversold them.
Also going back and looking at the original picture of the cards in that 3600 count box with the years listed on the front. The "blacked out" area under the years doesn't happen to be where it said "commons" at one time and is now sharpied over is it?
As a seller, I detest the idea that someone can take my item off the market, see that it meets the auction description but NOT his expectations, and then return it so I can go through the whole listing process again. Not to mention lost opportunity costs if the bidders on.
////////////////
Fair enough. Then emphasize the lot is being sold 'as is', and don't accept refunds. Your hammer price will probably be 60% of what it would be if you did accept refunds, but if you're comfortable making that trade-off then that's certainly your prerogative.
<< <i>Well, if she lists it as anything more than "here's some junk commons, help an old lady out" someone here will crucify her. >>
So just because an ebay seller claims to be an old lady who doesn't know anything about cards, she should be allowed to make false claims in promoting a listing?
I don't get why so many people find the words "I don't know" so difficult.
"I don't know if there are any good cards in this box. Maybe there are and maybe there aren't."
How about that? No need to refer to the lot as junk commons.
The unopend pack experience you can enjoy and returnopen. Just messing around and it doesnt matter. return all we want if its an option. Thats why costco is bas as$
So the moral of this story is that we can buy any card lot's on ebay and when we get them if we can't turn a profit we can return them. Since we can always find something in the listing the would justify that it's "not as described".
I rarely post here anymore, mainly because of silliness like this, but for some reason found myself reading through this thread...
The listing itself was deceptive in the aspect that the word commons was blacked out on purpose. The listing never stated whether the cards would be commons or stars, but it is a reasonable assumption that any seller, even one with absolutely no baseball knowledge, could very easily figure out which players were stars and subsequently pull them for the pictures. The fact that the picture showed Torre & Martin shows that the seller knows more than you are willing to believe, and should have told you that there would be no other stars in the lot. However, after reading the listing, I fail to see how the lot was not as described. Every professional athlete is a famous person to a certain extent, certainly more so than the majority of the population who are not or were not professional athletes, and the term "rare" gets thrown around on eBay with just about every collectible item.
As a buyer, if you are gambling, you absolutely must be willing to take the good with the bad. Returning the cards after searching them is not gambling, that's a wimp clause that shouldn't have even been offered.
This is like a scene in the movie The Sting, where they are playing poker and one player cheats figuring he'll clean up (the seller in this case), but the other (the buyer) also knows the other player is cheating and out-cheats him on the same hand.
<< <i>So the moral of this story is that we can buy any card lot's on ebay and when we get them if we can't turn a profit we can return them. Since we can always find something in the listing the would justify that it's "not as described".
Bob >>
Yes Bob, that's both correct and business.
When a seller ships an item paid for through paypal they agree to accept a return if the buyer feels the item is not in advertised condition.
it would be interesting if one of our attorney friends chimed in here.....it's my opinion that by invoking the term "unsearched" the seller essentially opened the door for anyone to challenge the authenticity of their claim, meaning that ANYONE, not just Tommy, could have turned that lot right around if they did not think that the item fit the description....it has nothing to do with taking advantage of a flawed system, although that is how it appears.
as buyers, we are entitled to the protection the system allows, nothing more....all the buyer wants is to have his funds returned....to accuse him of differentiating a successful buy as one which turns a profit is silly, because as business people, THAT IS WHAT WE DO.
<< <i>So the moral of this story is that we can buy any card lot's on ebay and when we get them if we can't turn a profit we can return them. Since we can always find something in the listing the would justify that it's "not as described".
Bob >>
The moral is: if you want to sell on ebay, describe your lots honestly.
Those of us who do that, run into very few problems.
If it's EX, don't call it mint. If they're commons, don't add that there are famous players and come back with some nonsense about how even common players are technically famous degree. Please.
Several years ago ebay's lot category used to filled with scamming sellers offering blind lots like this that were filled with junk. Once paypal started allowing buyers to file not as described complaints, most of those trashy sellers disappeared, and that's a good thing.
I have seen quite a few of these types of threads. If it's a board member who is the seller then everyone wants to know who the buyer is so they can BBL them. When the board member is the buyer then everyone is in agreement that it was not as described.
<< <i>I have seen quite a few of these types of threads. If it's a board member who is the seller then everyone wants to know who the buyer is so they can BBL them. When the board member is the buyer then everyone is in agreement that it was not as described.
Which way is it?
Bob >>
If a board member sold the lot in question I can understand why everybody would want to block them.
If a board member is the buyer of the lot in question I can understand why everybody would be in agreement.
Why everyone is not in agreement in this case is baffles me.
<< <i>I have seen quite a few of these types of threads. If it's a board member who is the seller then everyone wants to know who the buyer is so they can BBL them. When the board member is the buyer then everyone is in agreement that it was not as described.
<< <i>As a seller, I detest the idea that someone can take my item off the market, see that it meets the auction description but NOT his expectations, and then return it so I can go through the whole listing process again. Not to mention lost opportunity costs if the bidders on the first listing have moved on. You know, all the things we sellers complain about in the "bad buyer" threads.... >>
/////////////////////
I "detest" it too, but I recognize that EBAY is - with PayPal in the mix - really just an "approval service."
In the instant circumstance, the lot is clearly SNAD and returning it is appropriate.
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
<< <i>So the moral of this story is that we can buy any card lot's on ebay and when we get them if we can't turn a profit we can return them. Since we can always find something in the listing the would justify that it's "not as described".
Bob >>
The moral is: if you want to sell on ebay, describe your lots honestly.
Those of us who do that, run into very few problems.
If it's EX, don't call it mint. If they're commons, don't add that there are famous players and come back with some nonsense about how even common players are technically famous degree. Please.
Several years ago ebay's lot category used to filled with scamming sellers offering blind lots like this that were filled with junk. Once paypal started allowing buyers to file not as described complaints, most of those trashy sellers disappeared, and that's a good thing. >>
I agree with what you are saying, but in looking at the listing I don't see where it dishonest. To someone unfamiliar with baseball cards this is what I would expect for a listing. There was nothing in the listing about "stars" or "HOF" players, just that there might be some famous players.
I would like to know what the condition of the cards were that he got. He had past dealings with this person and even knew that they were not very knowledgeable about cards.
If it's EX, don't call it mint. If they're commons, don't add that there are famous players and come back with some nonsense about how even common players are technically famous degree. Please. >>
So Billy Martin, Joe Torre, Tug McGraw, Bob Clemente are all non famous players? Please.
<< <i>This is like a scene in the movie The Sting, where they are playing poker and one player cheats figuring he'll clean up (the seller in this case), but the other (the buyer) also knows the other player is cheating and out-cheats him on the same hand.
Bottom line: Two cheaters. >>
///////////////////////////////////
Accepting the return terms in the listing is really not "cheating."
Maybe if the listing said "no returns" and the buyer used PayPal to bailout on his "gamble," that would be "cheating."
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
<< <i>Your disappointed you can't make money on the lot, period. >>
//////////////////////////
But, as noted in the "gamble" part of the thread, he ONLY bought the lot to make money on it. Naturally, if the profit part of the "gamble" vanishes AND a "return privilege" is noted in the listing, it would be imprudent for him NOT to return the items.
Not every transaction presents "moral dilemmas;" sometimes it's just about doing biz according to the listing's terms.
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
I agree with Boopotts. The auction offers a return privilege and the buyer exercised it, end of story. This situation really isn't a moral dilemma. If anything, the seller should have done a better job providing more detail about the lot and used fewer superlatives in trying to promote it. Bottom line: if you're going to sell on ebay, and make money that way, you should be prepared to accept returns if you portray a box of commons as anything but a box of commons.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
You will only make a profit if you bid no more than 50.00 If you bid 60 with the intent to make 100. You wont. You might make 12.55. and when I say 50.00 I mean you will only make 22.55 But if you bit 52.00 I hope you get the point. But if you dont I dont except returns Thanks for looking
But the return option is available for all Paypal transactions regardless of if it is stated in the description or not.
How many threads have been started from the other perspective? A board member sells a set or a lot on ebay and now the buyer wants to return it, and 9/10 people side with the seller.
I get the feeling that most of the members here will side with whichever side of the fence is convenient for them at the time.
<< <i>If they have a "game", I'm not sure what it is. Like I said, the seller doesn't sell cards. This is the first lot of cards I've seen from her in over a year. Maybe she/they put the dupe on me and I have almost 2000 solid condition vintage commons for $700. I've sure spent my money on worse things, lol. >>
Left out of this is "If this is what I get Im going to send them back anyway."
Comments
I believe the OP when he says the lot has zero key cards and when the boxes are even listed as "Commons" then something is clearly not as described. Now if the lot was sold as a bulk lot of cards from these years that is a whole different story. This lot was clearly listed as unsearched and full of possible stars and rookies and is not as described.
<< <i>never mind >>
Too bad, you made some good points CrazyMind2017.
It will be interesting to see how the seller re-lists the cards.
<< <i>
<< <i>never mind >>
Too bad, you made some good points CrazyMind2017.
It will be interesting to see how the seller re-lists the cards. >>
Well, if she lists it as anything more than "here's some junk commons, help an old lady out" someone here will crucify her.
Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
----------------------
Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq
"unsearched"
"collector's dream"
"many great and rare baseball cards and rookies"
The package arrived and corvette noted that the outside of the box was noted, "72 Commons, '68 Commons, and '70-'71 Commons." He also noted this is exactly what the box contained.
I have another clause to add to the seller's claims: ITEM SIGNIFICANTLY NOT AS DESCRIBED.
This is a classic case of a seller over-promoting an item to increase bidding. Whether she is truly as ignorant about baseball cards as she claims is questionable to me, but it's also kind of irrelevant. She had a case of commons and they were labeled as such, and she totally oversold them.
////////////////
Fair enough. Then emphasize the lot is being sold 'as is', and don't accept refunds. Your hammer price will probably be 60% of what it would be if you did accept refunds, but if you're comfortable making that trade-off then that's certainly your prerogative.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>never mind >>
Too bad, you made some good points CrazyMind2017.
It will be interesting to see how the seller re-lists the cards. >>
Well, if she lists it as anything more than "here's some junk commons, help an old lady out" someone here will crucify her. >>
I'm sure some will, right?
<< <i>Well, if she lists it as anything more than "here's some junk commons, help an old lady out" someone here will crucify her. >>
So just because an ebay seller claims to be an old lady who doesn't know anything about cards, she should be allowed to make false claims in promoting a listing?
I don't get why so many people find the words "I don't know" so difficult.
"I don't know if there are any good cards in this box. Maybe there are and maybe there aren't."
How about that? No need to refer to the lot as junk commons.
<< <i>But if they didnt say refunds accepted. Paypal could always make them at least >>
Re-read the thread and listing.
1..............Rare? Not by the true meaning of the word. Not on 'rare' card in that lot.
2.............Did Tommy get a Piece of Authentic in that lot?
3...............Mint to very good condition? I doubt it.
4.........Famous names? I guess Joe Torre is a famous name. I'll give her this one, even the most common baseball card contains someone famous.
(Famous maybe to his mother)
Also, in her description she claims all sales final, yet offers a7 day money back guarantee.
1988 score ?? Hello?
old ladies with unsearched cards by them is rare right. We all believed her so she gets that one too.
<< <i>Even added later she it was still in the lot. >>
You win just with that alone.
Bob
Looking for Bob Uecker cards
My Ebay Auctions
The listing itself was deceptive in the aspect that the word commons was blacked out on purpose. The listing never stated whether the cards would be commons or stars, but it is a reasonable assumption that any seller, even one with absolutely no baseball knowledge, could very easily figure out which players were stars and subsequently pull them for the pictures. The fact that the picture showed Torre & Martin shows that the seller knows more than you are willing to believe, and should have told you that there would be no other stars in the lot. However, after reading the listing, I fail to see how the lot was not as described. Every professional athlete is a famous person to a certain extent, certainly more so than the majority of the population who are not or were not professional athletes, and the term "rare" gets thrown around on eBay with just about every collectible item.
As a buyer, if you are gambling, you absolutely must be willing to take the good with the bad. Returning the cards after searching them is not gambling, that's a wimp clause that shouldn't have even been offered.
This is like a scene in the movie The Sting, where they are playing poker and one player cheats figuring he'll clean up (the seller in this case), but the other (the buyer) also knows the other player is cheating and out-cheats him on the same hand.
Bottom line: Two cheaters.
<< <i>So the moral of this story is that we can buy any card lot's on ebay and when we get them if we can't turn a profit we can return them. Since we can always find something in the listing the would justify that it's "not as described".
Bob >>
Yes Bob, that's both correct and business.
When a seller ships an item paid for through paypal they agree to accept a return if the buyer feels the item is not in advertised condition.
as buyers, we are entitled to the protection the system allows, nothing more....all the buyer wants is to have his funds returned....to accuse him of differentiating a successful buy as one which turns a profit is silly, because as business people, THAT IS WHAT WE DO.
<< <i>So the moral of this story is that we can buy any card lot's on ebay and when we get them if we can't turn a profit we can return them. Since we can always find something in the listing the would justify that it's "not as described".
Bob >>
The moral is: if you want to sell on ebay, describe your lots honestly.
Those of us who do that, run into very few problems.
If it's EX, don't call it mint. If they're commons, don't add that there are famous players and come back with some nonsense about how even common players are technically famous degree. Please.
Several years ago ebay's lot category used to filled with scamming sellers offering blind lots like this that were filled with junk. Once paypal started allowing buyers to file not as described complaints, most of those trashy sellers disappeared, and that's a good thing.
Which way is it?
Bob
Looking for Bob Uecker cards
My Ebay Auctions
<< <i>I have seen quite a few of these types of threads. If it's a board member who is the seller then everyone wants to know who the buyer is so they can BBL them. When the board member is the buyer then everyone is in agreement that it was not as described.
Which way is it?
Bob >>
If a board member sold the lot in question I can understand why everybody would want to block them.
If a board member is the buyer of the lot in question I can understand why everybody would be in agreement.
Why everyone is not in agreement in this case is baffles me.
<< <i>I have seen quite a few of these types of threads. If it's a board member who is the seller then everyone wants to know who the buyer is so they can BBL them. When the board member is the buyer then everyone is in agreement that it was not as described.
Which way is it?
Bob >>
I think Bobby might disagree with you on that.
Next.
<< <i>As a seller, I detest the idea that someone can take my item off the market, see that it meets the auction description but NOT his expectations, and then return it so I can go through the whole listing process again. Not to mention lost opportunity costs if the bidders on the first listing have moved on. You know, all the things we sellers complain about in the "bad buyer" threads.... >>
/////////////////////
I "detest" it too, but I recognize that EBAY is - with PayPal in the mix -
really just an "approval service."
In the instant circumstance, the lot is clearly SNAD and returning it
is appropriate.
<< <i>
<< <i>So the moral of this story is that we can buy any card lot's on ebay and when we get them if we can't turn a profit we can return them. Since we can always find something in the listing the would justify that it's "not as described".
Bob >>
The moral is: if you want to sell on ebay, describe your lots honestly.
Those of us who do that, run into very few problems.
If it's EX, don't call it mint. If they're commons, don't add that there are famous players and come back with some nonsense about how even common players are technically famous degree. Please.
Several years ago ebay's lot category used to filled with scamming sellers offering blind lots like this that were filled with junk. Once paypal started allowing buyers to file not as described complaints, most of those trashy sellers disappeared, and that's a good thing. >>
I agree with what you are saying, but in looking at the listing I don't see where it dishonest. To someone unfamiliar with baseball cards this is what I would expect for a listing. There was nothing in the listing about "stars" or "HOF" players, just that there might be some famous players.
I would like to know what the condition of the cards were that he got. He had past dealings with this person and even knew that they were not very knowledgeable about cards.
Bob
Looking for Bob Uecker cards
My Ebay Auctions
<< <i>
If it's EX, don't call it mint. If they're commons, don't add that there are famous players and come back with some nonsense about how even common players are technically famous degree. Please. >>
So Billy Martin, Joe Torre, Tug McGraw, Bob Clemente are all non famous players? Please.
<< <i>This is like a scene in the movie The Sting, where they are playing poker and one player cheats figuring he'll clean up (the seller in this case), but the other (the buyer) also knows the other player is cheating and out-cheats him on the same hand.
Bottom line: Two cheaters. >>
///////////////////////////////////
Accepting the return terms in the listing is really not "cheating."
Maybe if the listing said "no returns" and the buyer used PayPal
to bailout on his "gamble," that would be "cheating."
Had the same box, with the same cards been super high grade that had potential 10's, would you have returned it, saying it was SNAD?
My guess is you would happily keep it.
Your disappointed you can't make money on the lot, period.
<< <i>Your disappointed you can't make money on the lot, period. >>
//////////////////////////
But, as noted in the "gamble" part of the thread, he ONLY
bought the lot to make money on it. Naturally, if the profit
part of the "gamble" vanishes AND a "return privilege" is
noted in the listing, it would be imprudent for him NOT to
return the items.
Not every transaction presents "moral dilemmas;" sometimes
it's just about doing biz according to the listing's terms.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Actually I found maybe 4 challenges.
1..............Rare? Not by the true meaning of the word. Not on 'rare' card in that lot.
2.............Did Tommy get a Piece of Authentic in that lot?
3...............Mint to very good condition? I doubt it.
4.........Famous names? I guess Joe Torre is a famous name. I'll give her this one, even the most common baseball card contains someone famous.
(Famous maybe to his mother)
Also, in her description she claims all sales final, yet offers a7 day money back guarantee. >>
Damn, Steve. Should I BBL you, too?
Ebay discription.
You will only make a profit if you bid no more than 50.00
If you bid 60 with the intent to make 100. You wont. You might make 12.55.
and when I say 50.00 I mean you will only make 22.55
But if you bit 52.00 I hope you get the point. But if you dont I dont except returns
Thanks for looking
<< <i>t would be interesting if one of our attorney friends chimed in here... >>
One did, 2 posts above yours.
Could you imagine if I sided against him how many this thread would have garnered?
One last point and I'll leave it to others in getting it to 100.
My points here had nothing to do with the gambling aspect of this transaction.
Mine was more in line with what BooPotts has said AND Grote15.
Happy Ebaying!
How many threads have been started from the other perspective? A board member sells a set or a lot on ebay and now the buyer wants to return it, and 9/10 people side with the seller.
I get the feeling that most of the members here will side with whichever side of the fence is convenient for them at the time.
Bob
Looking for Bob Uecker cards
My Ebay Auctions
the seller needs to know what they are selling...
or dont offer returns...
Looking for 1970 MLB Photostamps
- uncut
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<< <i>If they have a "game", I'm not sure what it is. Like I said, the seller doesn't sell cards. This is the first lot of cards I've seen from her in over a year. Maybe she/they put the dupe on me and I have almost 2000 solid condition vintage commons for $700. I've sure spent my money on worse things, lol. >>
Left out of this is "If this is what I get Im going to send them back anyway."
<< <i>
<< <i>t would be interesting if one of our attorney friends chimed in here... >>
One did, 2 posts above yours. >>
well, then thanks.....found a detective, too.
<< <i>Like a wise man once said, Tommy can still put asses in the seats. >>
he's kind of like our in-house Dennis Rodman.
flashy guy, good at what he does, not afraid to embrace controversy, chicks dig him.
99