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Do you think coin graders make mistakes ?

STEWARTBLAYNUMISSTEWARTBLAYNUMIS Posts: 2,697 ✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

I am talking professional graders at PCGS,NGC and CAC.

Stewart Blay
«1

Comments

  • coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,484 ✭✭✭
    No, why would you ask a question with such an obvious (correct) answer.
  • adamlaneusadamlaneus Posts: 6,969 ✭✭✭
    no, never

    let's get to stage 2 shall we. please indicate what issue you have. thanks.

  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,796 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, who doesn't make mistakes?
    My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132
  • pakasmompakasmom Posts: 1,920 ✭
    Depends. Are they humans?
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭
    yes.

    100+ or nuke. MJ
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,484 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Depends. Are they humans? >>

    From my experience, most (but not all of them) are.image
  • pakasmompakasmom Posts: 1,920 ✭
    Is that an offer to wager, MJ?
  • ColonialCoinUnionColonialCoinUnion Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭
    I'm sure this thread is heading somewhere really excellent.
    Coin Rarities Online
  • JamesMurrayJamesMurray Posts: 4,036 ✭
    I'd think they must make mistakes occasionally , going by the number of posts about cracking out and resubmitting and didnt one major grader slab chinese fakes ?
  • ModCrewmanModCrewman Posts: 4,032 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I'd think they must make mistakes occasionally , going by the number of posts about cracking out and resubmitting and didnt one major grader slab chinese fakes ? >>

    And presumably tooled FE cents at some point? image
  • tresgatostresgatos Posts: 531 ✭
    Shoot, I'm counting on it.
    molon labe
  • ChrisRxChrisRx Posts: 5,619 ✭✭✭✭
    Did Fonzie jump the shark?

    image
    image
  • silverpopsilverpop Posts: 6,670 ✭✭✭✭✭
    yes they do make mistakes but after all they are only human

    1997-present

  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,364 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I suspect it's like reading xrays.

    You give a good Radiologist 100 xrays and have them read.

    Give the same person the same xrays 3 months from now and they will disagree with THEMSELVES 5-10% of the time.

    The more experience and knowledge you have, the less variation there tends to be.
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
  • earlyAurumearlyAurum Posts: 722 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Is this a philosophical question?
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,162 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I predict they're almostt as infallable as Stewart! image
    Early Dollar Set
  • DNADaveDNADave Posts: 7,264 ✭✭✭✭✭
    They made a mistake on the amount of rotation on my rotated reverse Peace Dollar.


    FACT
  • bidaskbidask Posts: 14,011 ✭✭✭✭✭
    no they are the professionals
    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • ambro51ambro51 Posts: 13,771 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Of course thats why more than one grader 'grades' the coin.
  • clw54clw54 Posts: 3,815 ✭✭✭
    They don't make many mistakes because they're the ones who assign the grade. If a coin is 64 one day and 65 a month later, was a mistake made? No, because the coin was 64 the first time and 65 the next.
  • DennisHDennisH Posts: 13,989 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes; on a daily basis.

    Of course, they grade more coins in a day than I do in a month (at least), so daily mistakes are to be expected.
    When in doubt, don't.
  • kimber45ACPkimber45ACP Posts: 2,399 ✭✭✭
    That is why more than one person looks at each coin. Unless you are referring to a coin that all
    graders gave the same grade, and then later an issue arises causing the grade to come into
    question. That is when you use the guarantee feature of the grading company.
  • WTCGWTCG Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭
    Graders are humans. 'Nuff said.

    Is the OP throwing a fit over his grading results again? If he is he needs to grow up.
    Follow me on Twitter @wtcgroup
    Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
  • adamlaneusadamlaneus Posts: 6,969 ✭✭✭
    I bet coin graders have nightmares.

    For example:
    As he holds the coin, it slips out of his hand and drops to the floor. The grader flinches; knowing that he made a mistake. But in doing so, the grader knocks a stapler, telephone and paperweight onto the floor, all of them hitting the coin with an awful ringing thud. Carefully bending down to pick it up, a wheel of the chair rolls over the coin and it is crushed into a fine powder.

    Coin grader nightmares must be something.
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I'm sure this thread is heading somewhere really excellent. >>



    It has a classic Stewart thread written all over it.

    Lob a stick of dynamite in the forum with a long slow fuse

    Let the masses try to figure out what do with it and how to defuse it

    After we tucker ourselves out SB will return much later in the thread just as it's about to lose steam to reveal other information or the exact point of the post that would have been useful in the beginning. Adding potential fuel to the thread.

    Yes, this thread could be heading someplace special. MJ
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • RayboRaybo Posts: 5,304 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The only mistakes would be on the coins that I happen to purchase. image
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,067 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The only mistakes would be on the coins that I happen to purchase. image >>



    Or the ones that you sell that turn out to be under graded.
    theknowitalltroll;
  • raycycaraycyca Posts: 1,636 ✭✭✭
    They made mistakes on two of my coins lately when I resubmitted them. Dang fools went up 1 point on one coin, and 1 1/2 points up on the other! I'm sure happy those PCGS graders made 2 mistakes on my part. Perhaps it's because I wrapped a $100 bill around each one. But I didn't use a rubber band so as to leave a mark on the coin. LOL I think PCGS are fantastic at grading and running their company. We all make mistakes, sometimes when we grade our own coins. PCGS also messes up on other things too. Such as wrong insert, wrong spelling, wrong denomination, etc. But they ALWAYS correct their mistakes very professionally. THANKS PCGS! Ray
    You only live life once, enjoy it like it's your last day. It just MIGHT be!

    image
  • TevaTeva Posts: 830 ✭
    Theres two aspects to grading one is technical and scientific in nature the other is based in opinion. I don't think they make to many technical mistakes and as for the opinion part I think a grader can be wrong without being considered to have made a mistake??image
    Give the laziest man the toughest job and he will find the easiest way to get it done.
  • HotfootspinHotfootspin Posts: 430 ✭✭
    Of course, we all make mistakes. Graders only rarely, however.

    More often on my coins than on your coins, unfortunately image

    The Secret Of Success Law:
    Discover all unpredictable errors before they occur.
  • ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've heard they are consistently overgrading MPLs


    imageimageimageimage
    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • adamlaneusadamlaneus Posts: 6,969 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Only when it comes to grading your coins I assume.image .......so what happened ole fella? >>



    No no. I'm sure that's all that Stewart had to say.
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,199 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Is the OP throwing a fit over his grading results again? If he is he needs to grow up.

    "Growing up" is overrated.
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • STEWARTBLAYNUMISSTEWARTBLAYNUMIS Posts: 2,697 ✭✭✭✭

    I'll be more specific : Has anyone ever got a coin returned as questionable color ? And the coin just came from a fresh roll ?

    Has anyone ever got a coin bagged for cleaning when all you have done is dip a coin ?

    Has anyone ever seen a coin that was certainly over graded ?

    If you had to describe each of the three grading services in political terms what would you say ?

    I say PCGS is conservative and NGC is liberal and CAC is Democratic.

    Stewart
  • DennisHDennisH Posts: 13,989 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I'll be more specific : Has anyone ever got a coin returned as questionable color ? And the coin just came from a fresh roll ?

    Has anyone ever got a coin bagged for cleaning when all you have done is dip a coin ?

    Has anyone ever seen a coin that was certainly over graded ?

    If you had to describe each of the three grading services in political terms what would you say ?

    I say PCGS is conservative and NGC is liberal and CAC is Democratic.

    Stewart >>

    No and no. Yes. Yes. President. Speaker of the House. Minority Leader.
    When in doubt, don't.
  • robkoolrobkool Posts: 5,934 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I believe coin graders sometimes make mistakes, but not often...
    Ebay items for sale Current BIN's / The Kingdom Collection
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,199 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I say PCGS is conservative and NGC is liberal

    Still?
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • ecichlidecichlid Posts: 1,212 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I am talking professional graders at PCGS,NGC and CAC.

    Stewart Blay >>



    If you mean giving out the wrong grade, then the answer is no. Grade is a matter of opinion. If by mistake to they missed tooled coins and such. Yes, just like you have.

    Do you expect them to be "mistake free"? Have you made any mistakes in your profession?
    There is no "AT" or "NT". We only have "market acceptable" or "not market acceptable.
  • BlindedByEgoBlindedByEgo Posts: 10,754 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm anxiously awaiting the denouement.

    Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1

  • illini420illini420 Posts: 11,466 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sure, haven't you seen some of the mechanical errors that PCGS sends out??? Those are the biggest mistakes I think they make as they could be avoided with some additional quality control.

    I remember one dealer showing me a coin he got back from PCGS... it was a key date Indian Cent in an MS holder... too bad the coin was probably an F or maybe a VF on a good day!!!

    I recently got back a coin w/ a supposed "mechanical error" as well... not fun!!!

    Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448

  • ElcontadorElcontador Posts: 7,512 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It depends on your definition of a 'mistake.'

    The powers that be many years ago decided to be far more forgiving of Draped Bust material than its more contemporary coins. Ie., I've seen a good 100 Bust $s which were slabbed in first world holders that would have been in 'genuine' holders if instead, they were Seated $s.

    You could argue all day regarding Draped Bust $s re what is an AU 53 versus an AU 55.

    Would you call grading a liner coin when one year it's in a 63 holder and the next year it's resubmitted and winds up in a 64 holder a mistake?

    Would you call giving an attractively toned coin a one point or more grade bump a mistake? An extreme example of this was an attractively toned flashy 1884 Liberty Nickel in an MS 66 holder which had a hideous rim gouge @ 9:00 on the obverse.
    "Vou invadir o Nordeste,
    "Seu cabra da peste,
    "Sou Mangueira......."
  • rlarickrlarick Posts: 230


    << <i>I'll be more specific : Has anyone ever got a coin returned as questionable color ? And the coin just came from a fresh roll ? >>



    Could someone tell me where the damage (Code 98) is on this coin?


    image
    image






    << <i>Has anyone ever seen a coin that was certainly over graded ? >>




    This one is graded MS64BN


    image
    image


    Lots of coins that leave me scratching my head. maybe post more if everyone doesn't start yelling at me.

  • kurtdogkurtdog Posts: 1,456


    << <i>Has anyone ever got a coin returned as questionable color? And the coin just came from a fresh roll ? >>

    No. But I can understand how that can happen, as it's an entirely pretentious determination.

    << <i>Has anyone ever got a coin bagged for cleaning when all you have done is dip a coin? >>

    No. But I can understand how that can happen, too, as it's entirely a judgment call on whether a coin was unacceptably cleaned.

    << <i>Has anyone ever seen a coin that was certainly over graded? >>

    No. Reason is, the TPGs don't technical grade, they market grade. That means, in short, what they say goes...
  • DHeathDHeath Posts: 8,472 ✭✭✭
    When I submit something that grades lower than expected, I always rationalize that the TPG must be tight. When they return one in a grade higher than I expect, I wonder if they looked at the coin. The later causes loss of confidence in the TPG, while the former causes lack of confidence in oneself.
    Developing theory is what we are meant to do as academic researchers
    and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
  • BGBG Posts: 1,762 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Back in the day, I've had coins return in BB's. Same coins grade 65 and 66 on next attempt.
  • DaveEDaveE Posts: 367 ✭
    Of course they make mistakes-only on your coins Stewart!
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,992 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Don't forget that a grade is an opinion. Can an opinion be wrong?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,992 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Is the OP throwing a fit over his grading results again? >>



    That was my first thought. If true, he may just be venting his frustration.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • STEWARTBLAYNUMISSTEWARTBLAYNUMIS Posts: 2,697 ✭✭✭✭

    Fact is we all make mistakes when evaluating or appraising or grading coins. PCGS tends to admit it when they do make a mistake.

    That is why their buy back policy or their guarantee is the best in the business. Sometimes it is too good in my opinion. I have seen PCGS buy coins

    back for too much money.

    I have not heard anyone state specific examples of mistakes that they have observed and what they did about it.

    Stewart
  • giorgio11giorgio11 Posts: 3,886 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I'm sure this thread is heading somewhere really excellent. >>



    It has a classic Stewart thread written all over it.

    Lob a stick of dynamite in the forum with a long slow fuse

    Let the masses try to figure out what do with it and how to defuse it

    After we tucker ourselves out SB will return much later in the thread just as it's about to lose steam to reveal other information or the exact point of the post that would have been useful in the beginning. Adding potential fuel to the thread.

    Yes, this thread could be heading someplace special. MJ >>



    Grass could be growing somewhere too but I don't choose to watch it grow.
    VDBCoins.com Our Registry Sets Many successful BSTs; pls ask.

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