Stone Mountain 50C In Original Envelope (Updated with new photos on page 3)
JamesM
Posts: 757 ✭
Just picked this up today what do you think of the coin and old bank envelope?
In hand has a large amount of luster and color that the photos seem to hide. Ill see if I can work on getting more to show tonight.
Thanks
In hand has a large amount of luster and color that the photos seem to hide. Ill see if I can work on getting more to show tonight.
Thanks
--- Mayer Numismatics --- Collectors Corner --- (888) 822 - COIN ---
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In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
A Truth That's Told With Bad Intent
Beats All The Lies You Can Invent
Dave
Drunner
TD
Doubled die obverse - correct? Doubling on Sone Mountain and the date?
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
<< <i>I don't think the envelope is original. The writing on the envelope looks like ball point pen. Ball point pens first went on sale in the United States in 1945. >>
That Coupon envelope isn't original to the Stone Mountain Memorial.
<< <i>It's really cool. I agree with the 64 estimate as there are some good ticks on there. Fun to find original stuff like this. >>
Those "good ticks" are significantly magnified by the images, and are usually seen on examples graded MS65 and MS66.
<< <i>
<< <i>It's really cool. I agree with the 64 estimate as there are some good ticks on there. Fun to find original stuff like this. >>
Those "good ticks" are significantly magnified by the images, and are usually seen on examples graded MS65 and MS66. >>
How about the rub on Grants glove, knee, and horses neck
Not an original stone mountain envelope. Bank deposit envelope.
Non double die.
TRUTH
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>It's really cool. I agree with the 64 estimate as there are some good ticks on there. Fun to find original stuff like this. >>
Those "good ticks" are significantly magnified by the images, and are usually seen on examples graded MS65 and MS66. >>
How about the rub on Grants glove, knee, and horses neck
GRANT?????????????????????????????????????????
<< <i>I know some damyankee didn't just say GRANT was on that coin, right?
Could have been worse, someone could have said Sherman
Actually, though I've not been up to Hotlanta for a li'l while, I've heard they got 'em some bumper stickers that say: "SHERMAN- WHERE ARE YOU NOW THAT ATLANTA NEEDS YOU?"
Sad but true.
<< <i>How about the rub on Grants glove, knee, and horses neck
Grant? A hero of the Confederacy?
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
Since Grant was brought up -------In the dept of FWIW Grant was considered one of the best horseman of the Civil War. It was said that he always looked as he and the horse were one.
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>I don't think the envelope is original. The writing on the envelope looks like ball point pen. Ball point pens first went on sale in the United States in 1945. >>
Looks that way to me too.
Edited to add that I still like the coin a lot, though.
<< <i>I don't think the envelope is original. The writing on the envelope looks like ball point pen. Ball point pens first went on sale in the United States in 1945. >>
Perhaps someone wrote on this envelope long after it was sold. It certainly looks old enough and it looks like the right size.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>It's really cool. I agree with the 64 estimate as there are some good ticks on there. Fun to find original stuff like this. >>
Those "good ticks" are significantly magnified by the images, and are usually seen on examples graded MS65 and MS66. >>
How about the rub on Grants glove, knee, and horses neck
I don't discount the possibility that the coin might be AU. But the luster is there, the clean fields are consistent with an uncirculated coin, the flat spots you noted could be due to strike and my guess is MS66. Yes, I might feel very differently, were I to see the coin in-hand.
<< <i>GRANT?????????????????????????????????????????
Wow I've never woke up to so many PM's before based on a post in a thread...
With the head cold I've got going on your all lucky I didn't state that Cheech & Chong are on the obverse.
I just realized last night that I'd been calling my dog by the wrong name for a few days and been wondering why she isn't responding!
<< <i>How about the rub on Grants glove, knee, and horses neck
I don't discount the possibility that the coin might be AU. But the luster is there, the clean fields are consistent with an uncirculated coin, the flat spots you noted could be due to strike and my guess is MS66. Yes, I might feel very differently, were I to see the coin in-hand. >>
I just jumped to Heritage's archives and based on an image it's really tough to tell the difference between a really choice AU58 and even a MS67.
<< <i>I very much like the coin (which looks like an MS66 to me), the envelope and the images.
+1
The real meaning of the coin in the first place..
Everyone is looking at coins today and thinking grade first and only!
Are we forgetting the history of coins themselves? IF so our hobby is going in the wrong direction.
One man's treasure may just be someone elses trash.
Example and 1909-S- VDB in Vg is someones treasure and to others here if it is not a Red MS coin it's trash not worth looking at.
that coin is a great coin better than todays commems IMHO!
<< <i>I think that everyone is missing something!
The real meaning of the coin in the first place..
Everyone is looking at coins today and thinking grade first and only!
Are we forgetting the history of coins themselves? IF so our hobby is going in the wrong direction.
One man's treasure may just be someone elses trash.
Example and 1909-S- VDB in Vg is someones treasure and to others here if it is not a Red MS coin it's trash not worth looking at.
that coin is a great coin better than todays commems IMHO! >>
I don't see this thread the way you do. Much of the discussion has centered upon the cool envelope, and not just the coin or its grade.
<< <i>
<< <i>GRANT?????????????????????????????????????????
Wow I've never woke up to so many PM's before based on a post in a thread...
With the head cold I've got going on your all lucky I didn't state that Cheech & Chong are on the obverse.
I just realized last night that I'd been calling my dog by the wrong name for a few days and been wondering why she isn't responding!
50 lashes with a wet noodle!!!!
<< <i>these original "holders" must be quite rare >>
It is an envelope, and no doubt original as an envelope. The fact that it is not thoe original mint packaging is clearly evident.
Nice coin.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
<< <i>
<< <i>these original "holders" must be quite rare >>
It is an envelope, and no doubt original as an envelope. The fact that it is not thoe original mint packaging is clearly evident.
Nice coin. >>
are you saying it's not a holder?
Hmmm...and here I thought the coin had Grant and Sherman on it. Wasn't it issued to commemorate Sherman's urban renewal project in Georgia and South Carolina, and Grant's public service work in Mississippi? Guess I'd better go back and check the archives.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>these original "holders" must be quite rare >>
It is an envelope, and no doubt original as an envelope. The fact that it is not thoe original mint packaging is clearly evident.
Nice coin. >>
are you saying it's not a holder?
OK... It's an envelope being used as a holder. For the sake of clarity, the OP never referred to it as a holder - only that it was an "original envelope" - which, as previously stated, I do not dispute.
That about do it?
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
<< <i>I know some damyankee didn't just say GRANT was on that coin, right?
Nice pickup, the SM is one of my favorites!!
STONE MOUNTAIN HALF DOLLAR
The models for this coin were prepared by Gutzon Borglum. The first coins were struck at Philadelphia January 21, 1925, General Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson's birthday. One of the more common U. S. commemorative coins, the Stone Mountain half dollar was a by-product of a much larger undertaking-the carving of monumental figures of Robert E. Lee, Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson and Jefferson Davis into the side of a sheer cliff. These heroes of the Southern Confederacy (only Lee and Jackson appear on the coin) were portrayed on horseback on a scale that would render them visible for miles. This great sculpture was not completed until more than fifty years after it commenced, and it left behind a legacy of strife and scandal which at one point brought all work to a halt. The coins that resulted from this visionary project possess a remarkable history of their own.
For many years after its sad end in 1865, the failed Confederate States of America remained a lost cause from which the South was continually attempting to recover. This all changed in 1915 with the release of The Birth of A Nation, an epic film by motion picture pioneer David Wark Griffith. Himself the son of a Confederate veteran, D. W. Griffith was raised on tales of Southern chivalry and the glorious cause of "states rights." In his melodramatic depiction of the Civil War and its aftermath in the South, Griffith glorified this period and launched a revival of its traditions. These were manifested in a variety of ways, not all of them progressive, but one result of this renewed interest in the CSA was a grand scheme to memorialize its most beloved figures.
In 1916, sculptor Gutzon Borglum was commissioned by the Stone Mountain Confederate Monumental Association to carve a large bust of General Robert E. Lee into the mountain's broad northeast face. The Association envisioned something on the order of 20 feet square that could be viewed with a telescope. Borglum countered with a much grander pictorial scene of CSA officers on horseback accompanied by a parade of infantry. Also envisioned were a memorial hall and museum at the base of the mountain, as well as a gigantic amphitheater. Borglum's power of persuasion was superb, and the Association followed his lead; the plan was approved.
Georgia's Stone Mountain is located a few miles northeast of Atlanta. It stands 867 feet high and is more than seven miles in circumference at the base. The exposed northeast face is itself nearly a mile wide. At the time the sculpture was conceived, this mountain was still privately owned by the family of Samuel H. Venable. An agreement was reached in which the owners would permit the carving to go on for 12 years. If not completed in that time, all title to the mountain and its carvings would revert to the Venable Family.
A formal dedication of the project's commencement was held in May of 1916. From this auspicious beginning, everything slid downhill. World War I interrupted the work in 1917, and it wasn't until June 18, 1923 that the carving resumed. The real trouble began when the Association and sculptor Borglum became engaged in a feud. It was charged that the artist was negligent, appearing only rarely at the site while simple stone cutters did all the work. In addition, he was accused of being too involved in the promotional and fundraising aspects of the campaign to perform his primary responsibility as designer and sculptor. To this Borglum responded with charges of artistic interference from the Association's officers and, more ominously, with a claim that President Hollins N. Randolph was diverting the donated funds to his own uses and running up exorbitant expense accounts. Both sides were ultimately proved correct. In the short term, however, Borglum was discharged on February 25, 1925. In a fit of fury, he destroyed all of his models and plans. This action caused him to be denounced by the Association, and a warrant was issued for his arrest. The charges were later dropped, but the animosity remained for several years.
The carving work was reassigned to Augustus Lukeman, who would later create the Daniel Boone Bicentennial half dollar in 1934. Although he entered the project by first blasting away whatever carving had been accomplished to that point, Lukeman proved to be more compliant than his predessor and continued on the project until 1930. By then, all of the scandal and bickering, combined with the effects of the Great Depression, ruined the Association and brought all further work to a standstill for more than 30 years. In the meantime, Borglum went on to successfully create the monumental portraits of four U. S. presidents on the face of Mt. Rushmore in South Dakota. The Confederate Memorial project was finally revived in 1963 by the State of Georgia, which purchased the mountain and surrounding area from its private owners and completed the carving seven years later. The amphitheater was never built, but there is a visitor center at the site. Amid all of these developments, the idea of a commemorative coin was almost an afterthought.
The success of other organizations in raising funds through the sale of these coins prompted the Stone Mountain Confederate Monumental Association to seek its own issue which would be designed and sculpted by Gutzon Borglum, who was then still in its good graces. With strong support from President of the United States Calvin Coolidge, a bill was passed March 17, 1924 which authorized the minting of up to five million half dollars honoring the soldiers of the South and the memory of the recently-deceased President Warren G. Harding. In fact, Harding's portrait appeared in Gutzon Borglum's first models for this coin but was removed on the instructions of President Coolidge. This is ironic in view of the fact that Coolidge himself would appear in life on the obverse of the American Independence Sesquicentennial half dollar in 1926.
The models furnished by Borglum to the federal Commission of Fine Arts were repeatedly rejected by sculptor member James Earle Fraser, creator of the Indian Head/Buffalo nickel. These models were in very low relief, were inaccurately modeled and were overly crowded with lettering too small to be discernible on the finished coin. It was not until October 10, 1924 that Fraser finally gave his reluctant approval, declaring the revised models "barely passable." The Association proved naively optimistic in its projected sales of five million coins.
Only 2,310,000 were actually struck to their order at the Philadelphia Mint, an additional 4,709 being coined for assaying purposes and later destroyed. The first minting occurred on January 21, 1925, the 101st anniversary of "Stonewall" Jackson's birth. The first 1000 pieces were coined with a medal press; a number of these were presented to assorted dignitaries, while the remainder were reserved for later presentations to persons assisting in the Stone Mountain project. The remaining coins minted were delivered by the end of March. They were placed on sale at $1 apiece beginning July 3, 1925.
An amazing number of creative marketing techniques were devised to move these coins and realize a maximum return, no easy feat given that their enormous mintage discouraged sales to both coin collectors and speculators. A New York marketing specialist named Harvey Hill was engaged to oversee such promotions. Large corporations were drafted to purchase quantities of these coins to present or sell to their employees. Perhaps the most interesting scheme, however, and the one with the greatest value to present day collectors was Hill's idea to counterstamp a number of coins with the initials of various southern states and a range of serial numbers. These special souvenirs were then auctioneered amid much publicity; one example counterstamped for Florida realized an amazing $1,300! These have become quite popular with coin collectors, but purchasers are warned to buy only coins which have accompanying documentation, as the counterstamps can be replicated.
All of these efforts were in vain, however, as sales lagged amid all of the bad publicity over the Association's misadventures. After several years of attempting to sell the Stone Mountain halves, one million coins were returned to the Mint for melting. This left a net mintage of 1,310,000 pieces. Still too many for the market to absorb, countless coins remained in banks as late as the 1930s and were ultimately dumped into circulation at face value. This fact accounts in part for the great many survivors which evidence wear or other signs of mishandling. To detect such wear, examine General Lee's elbow and the eagle's breast.
Still, enough mint state coins exist in grades MS-60 through MS-65 that examples are relatively inexpensive. Even a sizable number of MS-66 coins have been certified by the grading services, although the totals drop off dramatically in higher grades. Stone Mountain halves are typically quite frosty, with luster that ranges all the way from dull to flashy. A few will appear flatly struck on the highest design points, but well struck coins remain abundant. Also fairly common and quite popular is the variety with a distinctly doubled obverse die. This is most visible in the date and legend STONE MOUNTAIN.