Boom, You may not get much empathy as the forum has moved on to debate. But everyone felt the same way you do on the first day. We were all shocked. --Jerry
I've been reading for the past hour (since I last posted above) and must say that I am thoroughly confused! None of this makes any sense to me yet - but at any rate I feel badly for all caught up in or hurt by it all.
Jeez. Having done business with the unnamed certification service he had worked for for many years, I had the pleasure of talking with Cameron on many occasions. Just shocking, awful news. Sorry to hear.
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Today was the first I heard about Cameron, and I was shocked and very saddened. I've known Cameron off and on for years, and he was one of the YN's at the ANA's Summer Seminars when I attended years ago. I believe he was there every year that I was there. One of the nicest guys out there, and he will be missed by myself and many others in the hobby. My prayers are certainly with his family.
Just out of curiousity what did pcgs supposedly do that may have contributed to his suicide? In addition, I find it hard to believe that he owed $800,000 to creditors, unless your a silvertowne or littleton I don't see how someone could accumulate that much product on credit. I had a few correspondences with him when he wanted to buy some of my errror coins, but I never made a deal with him. I didn't realize how young he was and it always amazes me that anyone could want to die.
well maybe you would believe Wayne Herndon ( well known Coiin dealer) ??? How about Keith Love,owner of ANACS?
Robert Rhue-big dollar coin Dealer in Denver? And of course you could always call J.P. Martin who posted about the issues at hand or maybe you would like to call the detectives at Thornton Colorado - http://www.cityofthornton.net/Pages/default.aspx
or Cam's now sadly ex -Police chief boss at Nederland police station! http://www.town.nederland.co.us/ or maybe check your in box for just samples of e-mails with verifiable dealers and some details as to what happened!
no need to believe me about this when you have these people who combine have been around dealing in coins for 125 years~
MOC- I was giving permission to produce the names of the people above by those people as they sent me their stories.I sent some of them to you as well as SaintGuru.....call any of those men and ask them of their testimonies and what they know of others and the law investigation. I am telling you I was as close to Cameron as anyone you will know yet something really went bad and pain is evident for many. I'm shocked and sad. Call those men if you require affirmation of what I am tell you sir. They are well known in the coin World~
Not to take this thread into a different direction other than what it already has...
But for such a seasoned and "veteran" collector to trust someone with so much money that they are now in danger of losing their house is a hard fact to beleive. I have seen your type set registry, and if you were in such a dire situation, I am sure everything would go, and you would find a way. You were VERY unkind to me when I first started collecting, and frankly I will never forget that. When you wanted to sell me a coin just now, your tone changed completely. I am glad I didn't go ahead with that transaction.
As with others here, we have to take what is said with a grain of salt, especially since we now know who its coming from.
All coins kept in bank vaults. PCGS Registries Box of 20 SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
First of all I know nothing! I rarely read these boards for months prior to this so I'm in the dark. But the source of the worst accusations (Typesetter )has a history of very erratic and disturbing behavior. He has trouble separating truth from fiction. He's had at least a half dozen names here because he leaves a wake of angry members wherever he treads. Any YOU, well, I believe you were the perpetrator oif a rather wide-scale scam of your own. You are not one to lecture ethics or propriety here. Your words ring hollow. You lost your credibility.
I am NOT going to get into a pissing match over this tragedy. I bow out. This place really turns my stomach.
I am all for people contributing with the intent of helping out his family if there is indeed a legitimate need there... but, that said, I've still not seen a satisfactory explanation of the facts. For all we know he was well insured, saw this as his way to provide for the family, and they will be well set monetarily. On the other hand, perhaps legalities may freeze any and all funds- including memorial funds. My point being, no one knows yet. If someone still wants to give to the family regardless, fine...but I still hold the opinion that any knee jerk reaction here, i.e., writing checks, etc. is premature and may not benefit the family as intended
uh...for one thing I don't think Ins. companies pay out for suicide if it was determined that as being the cause of death. Secondly, however he passed, the fact remains that a family is without a husband and father now. I didnt know CK or his family at all, so I can't say if I think he or the family was/is well off, but I bid high on an auction, and won, for his memorial fund because I felt it was something that should be done, even by a stranger to him like me. I didn't know him, but just felt I should do it, I even talked it over with my wife. Some people call that the power of the Holy Spirit and I belive that is what happened with me. The memorial fund is a source of funds his family will surely need with all the impending litigation that will surround his estate, if he even had an estate. Maybe it's ignorant or naive of me to contribute to a fund set up for his family as all the info. I have is based on what people close to the matter have told me here, but I felt compelled to do so and that's good enough reason for me at this point.
To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
disturbing behavior, hmmm I'm not divorced nor have any intentions of getting one,I am also a father whose children all lost their money recently due to this. What is disturbing is OJ Simpsons mother still claiming in denial her son murdered anyone,now that is disturbing! And of course people who get divorced and pretend to judge the relationships of others who can and do get along with people they commit to live with their entire lives. Personally attacking me because I lost everything trusting someone ALL of you trusted as well is inane. And bickering and bantering and such back when on the Open Forum of course has nothing to do with this situation either. Attorneys will not be interested in anything other than where hundreds of thousands of dollars and coins went to.
[Ankurj*** 1) you had no intention of buying the gold piece offered by me you were merely tire kicking
2) the Source??? Did you not read this and these names? Maybe I should ask them if I can post their phone numbers for you to tell them they are discredited sources? Shall I three or twelve way conference call you with these "sources". And my tone? I'm broke,selling what little I have left to put a band aid on a broken bone .Funny thing is it's all 100% factual and I not only left you posted "sources"" but also sent you some samples of the letters others sent me..source? read below,there are your sources.....and sadly,there are more!
well maybe you would believe Wayne Herndon ( well known Coiin dealer) ??? How about Keith Love,owner of ANACS?
Robert Rhue-big dollar coin Dealer in Denver? And of course you could always call J.P. Martin who posted about the issues at hand or maybe you would like to call the detectives at Thornton Colorado - http://www.cityofthornton.net/Pages/default.aspx
or Cam's now sadly ex -Police chief boss at Nederland police station! http://www.town.nederland.co.us/ or maybe check your in box for just samples of e-mails with verifiable dealers and some details as to what happened!
no need to believe me about this when you have these people who combine have been around dealing in coins for 125 years~ >>
Typically as long as it does not occur in the first 2 years of the policy the insurance company will pay the benefit
Really? So they will reward your family if you tough it out living with them for 2 more years huh? Is that kind of like Financial Institutions being rewared with TARP for writing bad loans? Well since that did happen, I guess anything's possible. I just went over my policy and it clearly states that suicide voids the policy, no matter when it's done if it's determined to be the cause of death. Being that I will never give in to carrying out the said act out, I guess the policy I have is good enough for me & mine.
To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
IF what you say is true, if I was you I'd be ashamed of putting your life savings with an undercapitalized, new entrepreneur. College funds, savings, everything? I wouldn't put all that in one bank.
Step up and take some responsibility for your own terrible business decision while you're bashing a kid who got in over his head and ended tragically.
I'll say this....I will NEVR believe that he did this as a scheme. I think he failed and compounded it out of desperation. That doesn't make him 'not guilty' but there have been far more grievous scoundrels in this business than Cameron Keifer!
<< <i>IF what you say is true, if I was you I'd be ashamed of putting your life savings with an undercapitalized, new entrepreneur. College funds, savings, everything? I wouldn't put all that in one bank.
Step up and take some responsibility for your own terrible business decision while you're bashing a kid who got in over his head and ended tragically.
I'll say this....I will NEVR believe that he did this as a scheme. I think he failed and compounded it out of desperation. That doesn't make him 'not guilty' but there have been far more grievous scoundrels in this business than Cameron Keifer! >>
Yes, insurance policies have a suicide clause... they (insurance companies) believe if someone is suicidal, that they don't have the faculties to purchase an insurance policy and wait two years to commit suicide.
Life insurance typically is not designed to cover the taking of one's own life. Thus, in most states, insurance policies will not pay if the insured commits suicide within the first two years after the policy issue date. After two years, the proceeds will usually be paid for suicide. The reason for this is that most people who wish to commit suicide will not wait two years to do so. In addition, the policy behind insurance is to cover accidents and a suicide occurring more than two years after the policy is purchased is viewed as accidental and not intentional (meaning not planned when the policy was bought).
<< <i>IF what you say is true, if I was you I'd be ashamed of putting your life savings with an undercapitalized, new entrepreneur. College funds, savings, everything? I wouldn't put all that in one bank.
Step up and take some responsibility for your own terrible business decision while you're bashing a kid who got in over his head and ended tragically.
I'll say this....I will NEVR believe that he did this as a scheme. I think he failed and compounded it out of desperation. That doesn't make him 'not guilty' but there have been far more grievous scoundrels in this business than Cameron Keifer! >>
1) I agree to some extent Jay but your now going to brow beat me after the fact.
2)bashing? No sir- simply disclosing the TRUTH......and considering how you see me Jay,you'd have to think I was being quite objective about what I have proposed. there was no bashing as I clearly wrote I loved him like a little brother and feel betrayed,lied to and deceived as you would. And I didn't just loan him money to just to make money as you propose,I loaned him money for his own wedding I never received back and yet let at go as to treat is as a gift. The e-mails validating this are in both our computers. I did that out of care and friendship. I had already known him for some time prior. You are correct,what he did no doubt was out of desperation but still,the harmed people only got compounded by not telling everyone so maybe we could all work it out corporately. I trusted him,I am responsible for that,maybe from a business sense I should have consulted You first Jay,I did before and you gave me good advise.....all the Open Forum bologna is not related to such things and we are different kinds of people that's fine but please don't connect this tragedy and the harm done to anything but facts and I sent you plenty of-mails to confirm data if you care to.I'm still in shock Jay,he was such a trustworthy and knd person.....that is why it is so hard to understand.
<< <i>IF what you say is true, if I was you I'd be ashamed of putting your life savings with an undercapitalized, new entrepreneur. College funds, savings, everything? I wouldn't put all that in one bank.
Step up and take some responsibility for your own terrible business decision while you're bashing a kid who got in over his head and ended tragically.
I'll say this....I will NEVR believe that he did this as a scheme. I think he failed and compounded it out of desperation. That doesn't make him 'not guilty' but there have been far more grievous scoundrels in this business than Cameron Keifer! >>
1) I agree to some extent Jay but your now going to brow beat me after the fact.
2)bashing? No sir- simply disclosing the TRUTH......and considering how you see me Jay,you'd have to think I was being quite objective about what I have proposed. there was no bashing as I clearly wrote I loved him like a little brother and feel betrayed,lied to and deceived as you would. And I didn't just loan him money to just to make money as you propose,I loaned him money for his own wedding I never received back and yet let at go as to treat is as a gift. The e-mails validating this are in both our computers. I did that out of care and friendship. I had already known him for some time prior. You are correct,what he did no doubt was out of desperation but still,the harmed people only got compounded by not telling everyone so maybe we could all work it out corporately. I trusted him,I am responsible for that,maybe from a business sense I should have consulted You first Jay,I did before and you gave me good advise.....all the Open Forum bologna is not related to such things and we are different kinds of people that's fine but please don't connect this tragedy and the harm done to anything but facts and I sent you plenty of-mails to confirm data if you care to.I'm still in shock Jay,he was such a trustworthy and knd person.....that is why it is so hard to understand. >>
Type- you have turned this into your personal vendetta against Cameron- you really should rethink some of your accusations against him, for you really do not know the full story now do you? Don't threaten folks via PM as you had done to me. I am fully aware of what Cameron was involved in, that you do not have a clue about. Alleging that you put your entire life savings as well as that of your kids- you will definitely need to prove that up in court- IF you ever get to the front door.
You have turned this into a mockery of how you have been exposed. You were a deranged individual when you were here as Marz- and you have not changed over time. It might be to your advantage to seek counseling from your church as well as an independent psychologist/psychiatrist.
my only threat to you was reporting the anti-semitic comments which violate the patriot act and thanks for posting you know what he was doing because his family does not and I am sure the The police detectives will love to talk to you about it. So I will let them know and save your post! Thanks again.! And of course why don't you tell these folks who lurk that have written me what happened then? Its a big secret? I listed people above who would like to know to have closure. Yep-that's psychotic of course.
<< <i>I'll say this....I will NEVR believe that he did this as a scheme. I think he failed and compounded it out of desperation. That doesn't make him 'not guilty' but there have been far more grievous scoundrels in this business than Cameron Keifer! >>
I believe that, in the end, it was the mounting shame that finally drove Cameron to do what he did. IF his life insurance policy did cover his final act, he would have seen it as a way to provide financial help for his family.
<< <i>my only threat to you was reporting the anti-semitic comments which violate the patriot act and thanks for posting you know what he was doing because his family does not and I am sure the The police detectives will love to talk to you about it. So I will let them know and save your post! Thanks again.! And of course why don't you tell these folks who lurk that have written me what happened then? Its a big secret? I listed people above who would like to know to have closure. Yep-that's psychotic of course. >>
Text
Oh my- you little puppy you. I will be more than happy to share the PM's you sent me to the house.
I will be more than happy to make a few phone calls in the morning to discuss your allegations on this matter- will you be so kind as to post your true address- the one you are currently living at, so they will be able to discuss your issues in finite detail. Oh- they will not be your average peace officers, considering you have accused someone of "anti-Semitic' comments? - when did this violate the Patriot Act?
Don- this is just what a doctor ordered- a large dose of medicine's to calm the nervous state of the mind.
I don't feel sorry for you Brian, you made your own bed, and this was NOT the thread to post your drivel in.
"I am fully aware of what Cameron was involved in" -your words you also wrote this~!~ "I have known Cameron for over 10 years now, and never heard that he owed someone 800K. I know of about 5K."
:why not tell the people I listed who are lurking what it is I do not know then! Its so big and amazing-tell them! I never said I knew and never pretended to I stated said there is hundreds of thousands of dollars taken/gone to many folks/dealers friends which of course is a fact. So you know of 5k but know what he was into! ahhhhummmmm
<< <i>IF what you say is true, if I was you I'd be ashamed of putting your life savings with an undercapitalized, new entrepreneur. College funds, savings, everything? I wouldn't put all that in one bank.
Step up and take some responsibility for your own terrible business decision while you're bashing a kid who got in over his head and ended tragically.
I'll say this....I will NEVR believe that he did this as a scheme. I think he failed and compounded it out of desperation. That doesn't make him 'not guilty' but there have been far more grievous scoundrels in this business than Cameron Keifer! >>
Nobody made Typesetter invest every dollar he had with Cameron other than himself. Bad business choices are tough but scapegoating is uncalled for. If Typesetter is in fact in as dire of a financial situation as he says he is then he should sell his registry set and coin collection.
The lesson learned is that if you want to back a coin buyer you should choose wisely who you back and not make the choice based on just perception.
This thread is just sad! Not only were the events that this thread was intended to discuss sad, a few people on here are plain mental. The truly sad part is a few of these people don't understand that posting is a privilege and that tensions are already high and that turns like this just make Don W. question whether to keep this board open. He now has to police the boards as people don't know how to behave, he also has to be on troll watch 24/7. Say goodbye to the boards everyone! You think this can keep going and they will allow this to happen? Reality check.
First of all I know nothing! I rarely read these boards for months prior to this so I'm in the dark. But the source of the worst accusations (Typesetter )has a history of very erratic and disturbing behavior. He has trouble separating truth from fiction. He's had at least a half dozen names here because he leaves a wake of angry members wherever he treads. Any YOU, well, I believe you were the perpetrator oif a rather wide-scale scam of your own. You are not one to lecture ethics or propriety here. Your words ring hollow. You lost your credibility.
I am NOT going to get into a pissing match over this tragedy. I bow out. This place really turns my stomach. >>
You are one classy guy SG. Your general m.o is to speak first, insult heavily and then run. Did you see anywhere that I made a personal attack against you? Indeed I could attack you personally but I won't be brought into a b_itch fight with you. Go back to the OFR forums where I am sure your level of anger is well accepted. >>
I'm a classy guy compared to you, who AT'ed coins, sold them to your friends and half the board members, denied it vehemently and then fessed up like a busted little 10 yr. old boy. You're worse than Cam because you show NO remorse. If I ran this board you'd be in the hobo nickle forum. You're a coin criminal and everyone here remembers you as that. Great legacy to have and your hubris is amazing. Thanks for the opportunity to exchage pleasantries with you.
<< <i>my only threat to you was reporting the anti-semitic comments which violate the patriot act and thanks for posting you know what he was doing because his family does not and I am sure the The police detectives will love to talk to you about it. So I will let them know and save your post! Thanks again.! And of course why don't you tell these folks who lurk that have written me what happened then? Its a big secret? I listed people above who would like to know to have closure. Yep-that's psychotic of course. >>
Why don't you take this crap offline or to a different thread? It's uncouth here. If you feel you have things needing to be said, start your own thread and go with it. Also, you're an alt, it would appear, so you are pretty brazen to be as mouthy as you are. If you have been as harmed as you say you have been, stay with the detectives you claim to have, and let them do their work. This isn't the thread for it. What you are doing is nothing other than stirring things up for your own benefit, from what I have seen.
And, "patriotic act" problems? PUHLEASE! Grow up and stop trying to hide behind things as an excuse for what you do to others.
TS....I may be harsh on you but I think you aired dirty laundry where you shouldn't have, and were reckless about it.
I don't like hearing about anyone losing money this way so I feel bad for you if what you say is true. It's just where and how you revealed it that could have been handled differently.
I am done on this subject, I mourn for Cam's family and I feel terrible about Cameron getting himself into quicksand that ended with large losses and his inability to find a solution other than to end his life. There is no joy in Mudville anywhere in this terrible event. If you "loved" him like a brother then you should show a little restraint in public miasmas like this.
<< <i>TS....I may be harsh on you but I think you aired dirty laundry where you shouldn't have, and were reckless about it.
I don't like hearing about anyone losing money this way so I feel bad for you if what you say is true. It's just where and how you revealed it that could have been handled differently.
I am done on this subject, I mourn for Cam's family and I feel terrible about Cameron getting himself into quicksand that ended with large losses and his inability to find a solution other than to end his life. There is no joy in Mudville anywhere in this terrible event. If you "loved" him like a brother then you should show a little restraint in public miasmas like this. >>
sold it yesterday in fact to two local dealers. I could post there names and numbers and shops but like I did above with some dealers who are victims in this it appears to be ignored
Anyone who claims to be out that much, surely would've consulted an Attorney by now, and that Attorney surely wouldn't tell his client to be posting all this crap ON A F'IN MESSAGE BOARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
End of story! Can we just let this go and stop fanning the flame? Or is that what those of you who are want? Get a F'IN life!
To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
Comments
Cameron Kiefer was a real great guy and it troubles me deeply that this actually happened.
As for the reason the other thread is "locked" - I have nothing good to say about it.
Any other "losses" around here since last I visited?
Incredible!
You may not get much empathy as the forum has moved on to debate. But everyone felt the same way you do on the first day. We were all shocked. --Jerry
I've been reading for the past hour (since I last posted above)
and must say that I am thoroughly confused! None of this makes
any sense to me yet - but at any rate I feel badly for all caught up
in or hurt by it all.
Totally shocked! Terrible situation.
RIP - Cammie.
So sorry to hear this.Check will go out tomorrow.
<< <i>Typesetter also known as Marz on this forum, he is person with severe mental issues, do not believe a word he says. >>
Are you 100% CERTAIN of the identity of Typesetter?
<< <i>
<< <i>Typesetter also known as Marz on this forum, he is person with severe mental issues, do not believe a word he says. >>
Are you 100% CERTAIN of the identity of Typesetter? >>
I was wondering the same thing.
PCGS Registries
Box of 20
SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
You're crazy and I wouldn't believe a word you say. If it's you, this is the WORST thing I've ever seen.
How about Keith Love,owner of ANACS?
Robert Rhue-big dollar coin Dealer in Denver?
And of course you could always call J.P. Martin who posted about the issues at hand or maybe you would like to call the detectives at Thornton Colorado - http://www.cityofthornton.net/Pages/default.aspx
or Cam's now sadly ex -Police chief boss at Nederland police station! http://www.town.nederland.co.us/ or maybe check your in box for just samples of e-mails with verifiable dealers and some details as to what happened!
no need to believe me about this when you have these people who combine have been around dealing in coins for 125 years~
But for such a seasoned and "veteran" collector to trust someone with so much money that they are now in danger of losing their house is a hard fact to beleive. I have seen your type set registry, and if you were in such a dire situation, I am sure everything would go, and you would find a way. You were VERY unkind to me when I first started collecting, and frankly I will never forget that. When you wanted to sell me a coin just now, your tone changed completely. I am glad I didn't go ahead with that transaction.
As with others here, we have to take what is said with a grain of salt, especially since we now know who its coming from.
PCGS Registries
Box of 20
SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
First of all I know nothing! I rarely read these boards for months prior to this so I'm in the dark. But the source of the worst accusations (Typesetter )has a history of very erratic and disturbing behavior. He has trouble separating truth from fiction. He's had at least a half dozen names here because he leaves a wake of angry members wherever he treads. Any YOU, well, I believe you were the perpetrator oif a rather wide-scale scam of your own. You are not one to lecture ethics or propriety here. Your words ring hollow. You lost your credibility.
I am NOT going to get into a pissing match over this tragedy. I bow out. This place really turns my stomach.
uh...for one thing I don't think Ins. companies pay out for suicide if it was determined that as being the cause of death.
Secondly, however he passed, the fact remains that a family is without a husband and father now. I didnt know CK or his family at all, so I can't say if I think he or the family was/is well off, but I bid high on an auction, and won, for his memorial fund because I felt it was something that should be done, even by a stranger to him like me. I didn't know him, but just felt I should do it, I even talked it over with my wife. Some people call that the power of the Holy Spirit and I belive that is what happened with me.
The memorial fund is a source of funds his family will surely need with all the impending litigation that will surround his estate, if he even had an estate. Maybe it's ignorant or naive of me to contribute to a fund set up for his family as all the info. I have is based on what people close to the matter have told me here, but I felt compelled to do so and that's good enough reason for me at this point.
And of course people who get divorced and pretend to judge the relationships of others who can and do get along with people they commit to live with their entire lives.
2) the Source??? Did you not read this and these names? Maybe I should ask them if I can post their phone numbers for you to tell them they are discredited sources? Shall I three or twelve way conference call you with these "sources". And my tone? I'm broke,selling what little I have left to put a band aid on a broken bone .Funny thing is it's all 100% factual and I not only left you posted "sources"" but also sent you some samples of the letters others sent me..source? read below,there are your sources.....and sadly,there are more!
well maybe you would believe Wayne Herndon ( well known Coiin dealer) ???
How about Keith Love,owner of ANACS?
Robert Rhue-big dollar coin Dealer in Denver?
And of course you could always call J.P. Martin who posted about the issues at hand or maybe you would like to call the detectives at Thornton Colorado - http://www.cityofthornton.net/Pages/default.aspx
or Cam's now sadly ex -Police chief boss at Nederland police station! http://www.town.nederland.co.us/ or maybe check your in box for just samples of e-mails with verifiable dealers and some details as to what happened!
no need to believe me about this when you have these people who combine have been around dealing in coins for 125 years~ >>
<< <i>uh...for one thing I don't think Ins. companies pay out for suicide if it was determined that as being the cause of death. >>
Typically as long as it does not occur in the first 2 years of the policy the insurance company will pay the benefit
I will be adding an additional 25% to the winning bid.
Auction ends tomorrow at 6:00PM (PT), 9:00PM (ET).
Top bid is currently $425, plus my additional 25% (or $106.25) would equal a total of $531.25 which would be sent to the fund.
Thanks to all who have already participated, and I hope that my 25% becomes more like $120 before the auction ends!
Hopefully, the item will provide a little something tangible to the winning bidder by which to remember our "Cammy".
Really? So they will reward your family if you tough it out living with them for 2 more years huh?
I just went over my policy and it clearly states that suicide voids the policy, no matter when it's done if it's determined to be the cause of death.
Being that I will never give in to carrying out the said act out, I guess the policy I have is good enough for me & mine.
Step up and take some responsibility for your own terrible business decision while you're bashing a kid who got in over his head and ended tragically.
I'll say this....I will NEVR believe that he did this as a scheme. I think he failed and compounded it out of desperation. That doesn't make him 'not guilty' but there have been far more grievous scoundrels in this business than Cameron Keifer!
<< <i>IF what you say is true, if I was you I'd be ashamed of putting your life savings with an undercapitalized, new entrepreneur. College funds, savings, everything? I wouldn't put all that in one bank.
Step up and take some responsibility for your own terrible business decision while you're bashing a kid who got in over his head and ended tragically.
I'll say this....I will NEVR believe that he did this as a scheme. I think he failed and compounded it out of desperation. That doesn't make him 'not guilty' but there have been far more grievous scoundrels in this business than Cameron Keifer! >>
I agree with da Guru.
Yes, insurance policies have a suicide clause... they (insurance companies) believe if someone is suicidal, that they don't have the faculties to purchase an insurance policy and wait two years to commit suicide.
<< <i>IF what you say is true, if I was you I'd be ashamed of putting your life savings with an undercapitalized, new entrepreneur. College funds, savings, everything? I wouldn't put all that in one bank.
Step up and take some responsibility for your own terrible business decision while you're bashing a kid who got in over his head and ended tragically.
I'll say this....I will NEVR believe that he did this as a scheme. I think he failed and compounded it out of desperation. That doesn't make him 'not guilty' but there have been far more grievous scoundrels in this business than Cameron Keifer! >>
1) I agree to some extent Jay but your now going to brow beat me after the fact.
2)bashing? No sir- simply disclosing the TRUTH......and considering how you see me Jay,you'd have to think I was being quite objective about what I have proposed. there was no bashing as I clearly wrote I loved him like a little brother and feel
betrayed,lied to and deceived as you would. And I didn't just loan him money to just to make money as you propose,I loaned him money for his own wedding I never received back and yet let at go as to treat is as a gift. The e-mails validating this are in both our computers.
I did that out of care and friendship. I had already known him for some time prior. You are correct,what he did no doubt was out of desperation but still,the harmed people only got compounded by not telling everyone so maybe we could all work it out corporately.
I trusted him,I am responsible for that,maybe from a business sense I should have consulted You first Jay,I did before and you gave me good advise.....all the Open Forum bologna is not related to such things and we are different kinds of people that's fine but please don't connect this tragedy and the harm done to anything but facts and I sent you plenty of-mails to confirm data if you care to.I'm still in shock Jay,he was such a trustworthy and knd person.....that is why it is so hard to understand.
<< <i>
<< <i>IF what you say is true, if I was you I'd be ashamed of putting your life savings with an undercapitalized, new entrepreneur. College funds, savings, everything? I wouldn't put all that in one bank.
Step up and take some responsibility for your own terrible business decision while you're bashing a kid who got in over his head and ended tragically.
I'll say this....I will NEVR believe that he did this as a scheme. I think he failed and compounded it out of desperation. That doesn't make him 'not guilty' but there have been far more grievous scoundrels in this business than Cameron Keifer! >>
1) I agree to some extent Jay but your now going to brow beat me after the fact.
2)bashing? No sir- simply disclosing the TRUTH......and considering how you see me Jay,you'd have to think I was being quite objective about what I have proposed. there was no bashing as I clearly wrote I loved him like a little brother and feel
betrayed,lied to and deceived as you would. And I didn't just loan him money to just to make money as you propose,I loaned him money for his own wedding I never received back and yet let at go as to treat is as a gift. The e-mails validating this are in both our computers.
I did that out of care and friendship. I had already known him for some time prior. You are correct,what he did no doubt was out of desperation but still,the harmed people only got compounded by not telling everyone so maybe we could all work it out corporately.
I trusted him,I am responsible for that,maybe from a business sense I should have consulted You first Jay,I did before and you gave me good advise.....all the Open Forum bologna is not related to such things and we are different kinds of people that's fine but please don't connect this tragedy and the harm done to anything but facts and I sent you plenty of-mails to confirm data if you care to.I'm still in shock Jay,he was such a trustworthy and knd person.....that is why it is so hard to understand. >>
Type- you have turned this into your personal vendetta against Cameron- you really should rethink some of your accusations against him, for you really do not know the full story now do you? Don't threaten folks via PM as you had done to me. I am fully aware of what Cameron was involved in, that you do not have a clue about. Alleging that you put your entire life savings as well as that of your kids- you will definitely need to prove that up in court- IF you ever get to the front door.
You have turned this into a mockery of how you have been exposed. You were a deranged individual when you were here as Marz- and you have not changed over time. It might be to your advantage to seek counseling from your church as well as an independent psychologist/psychiatrist.
<< <i>I'll say this....I will NEVR believe that he did this as a scheme. I think he failed and compounded it out of desperation. That doesn't make him 'not guilty' but there have been far more grievous scoundrels in this business than Cameron Keifer! >>
I believe that, in the end, it was the mounting shame that finally drove Cameron to do what he did.
IF his life insurance policy did cover his final act, he would have seen it as a way to provide financial help for his family.
<< <i>my only threat to you was reporting the anti-semitic comments which violate the patriot act and thanks for posting you know what he was doing because his family does not and I am sure the The police detectives will love to talk to you about it. So I will let them know and save your post! Thanks again.!
Text
Oh my- you little puppy you. I will be more than happy to share the PM's you sent me to the house.
I will be more than happy to make a few phone calls in the morning to discuss your allegations on this matter- will you be so kind as to post your true address- the one you are currently living at, so they will be able to discuss your issues in finite detail. Oh- they will not be your average peace officers, considering you have accused someone of "anti-Semitic' comments? - when did this violate the Patriot Act?
Don- this is just what a doctor ordered- a large dose of medicine's to calm the nervous state of the mind.
I don't feel sorry for you Brian, you made your own bed, and this was NOT the thread to post your drivel in.
:why not tell the people I listed who are lurking what it is I do not know then! Its so big and amazing-tell them! I never said I knew and never pretended to I stated said there is hundreds of thousands of dollars taken/gone to many folks/dealers friends which of course is a fact. So you know of 5k but know what he was into! ahhhhummmmm
<< <i>IF what you say is true, if I was you I'd be ashamed of putting your life savings with an undercapitalized, new entrepreneur. College funds, savings, everything? I wouldn't put all that in one bank.
Step up and take some responsibility for your own terrible business decision while you're bashing a kid who got in over his head and ended tragically.
I'll say this....I will NEVR believe that he did this as a scheme. I think he failed and compounded it out of desperation. That doesn't make him 'not guilty' but there have been far more grievous scoundrels in this business than Cameron Keifer! >>
Nobody made Typesetter invest every dollar he had with Cameron other than himself. Bad business choices are tough but scapegoating is uncalled for. If Typesetter is in fact in as dire of a financial situation as he says he is then he should sell his registry set and coin collection.
The lesson learned is that if you want to back a coin buyer you should choose wisely who you back and not make the choice based on just perception.
<< <i>
<< <i>MANOFCOINS.
First of all I know nothing! I rarely read these boards for months prior to this so I'm in the dark. But the source of the worst accusations (Typesetter )has a history of very erratic and disturbing behavior. He has trouble separating truth from fiction. He's had at least a half dozen names here because he leaves a wake of angry members wherever he treads. Any YOU, well, I believe you were the perpetrator oif a rather wide-scale scam of your own. You are not one to lecture ethics or propriety here. Your words ring hollow. You lost your credibility.
I am NOT going to get into a pissing match over this tragedy. I bow out. This place really turns my stomach. >>
You are one classy guy SG. Your general m.o is to speak first, insult heavily and then run. Did you see anywhere that I made a personal attack against you?
Indeed I could attack you personally but I won't be brought into a b_itch fight with you. Go back to the OFR forums where I am sure your level of anger is well
accepted. >>
I'm a classy guy compared to you, who AT'ed coins, sold them to your friends and half the board members, denied it vehemently and then fessed up like a busted little 10 yr. old boy. You're worse than Cam because you show NO remorse. If I ran this board you'd be in the hobo nickle forum. You're a coin criminal and everyone here remembers you as that. Great legacy to have and your hubris is amazing. Thanks for the opportunity to exchage pleasantries with you.
<< <i>my only threat to you was reporting the anti-semitic comments which violate the patriot act and thanks for posting you know what he was doing because his family does not and I am sure the The police detectives will love to talk to you about it. So I will let them know and save your post! Thanks again.!
Why don't you take this crap offline or to a different thread? It's uncouth here. If you feel you have things needing to be said, start your own thread and go with it.
Also, you're an alt, it would appear, so you are pretty brazen to be as mouthy as you are.
If you have been as harmed as you say you have been, stay with the detectives you claim to have, and let them do their work. This isn't the thread for it. What you are doing is nothing other than stirring things up for your own benefit, from what I have seen.
And, "patriotic act" problems? PUHLEASE! Grow up and stop trying to hide behind things as an excuse for what you do to others.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I don't like hearing about anyone losing money this way so I feel bad for you if what you say is true. It's just where and how you revealed it that could have been handled differently.
I am done on this subject, I mourn for Cam's family and I feel terrible about Cameron getting himself into quicksand that ended with large losses and his inability to find a solution other than to end his life. There is no joy in Mudville anywhere in this terrible event. If you "loved" him like a brother then you should show a little restraint in public miasmas like this.
<< <i>TS....I may be harsh on you but I think you aired dirty laundry where you shouldn't have, and were reckless about it.
I don't like hearing about anyone losing money this way so I feel bad for you if what you say is true. It's just where and how you revealed it that could have been handled differently.
I am done on this subject, I mourn for Cam's family and I feel terrible about Cameron getting himself into quicksand that ended with large losses and his inability to find a solution other than to end his life. There is no joy in Mudville anywhere in this terrible event. If you "loved" him like a brother then you should show a little restraint in public miasmas like this. >>
10-4 Jay!
End of story! Can we just let this go and stop fanning the flame? Or is that what those of you who are want? Get a F'IN life!