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Stained and Artificially Toned Coins

stealerstealer Posts: 4,029 ✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
I've seen quite a few coins in "stained" and "artificially toned" coins recently in slabs. I was just wondering if it's possible to buy one, crack it out, give it a quick dip and re-submit for a problem free holder? It seems rather logical to me.

Comments

  • tightbudgettightbudget Posts: 7,299 ✭✭✭
    Coins are usually stained and AT'ed in an attempt to hide cleaning, scratches, and other other unsightly imperfections. If you dip such a coin, you're most likely going to reveal something nasty that'll keep the coin from an problem-free holder anyways.
  • morgandollar1878morgandollar1878 Posts: 4,006 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Coins are usually stained and AT'ed in an attempt to hide cleaning, scratches, and other other unsightly imperfections. If you dip such a coin, you're most likely going to reveal something nasty that'll keep the coin from an problem-free holder anyways. >>




    Well said.
    Instagram: nomad_numismatics
  • Dog97Dog97 Posts: 7,874 ✭✭✭
    Every time I've dipped a stained coin it remained stained. AT can be dipped off and the coin holdered if it isn't damaged as tightbudget described.
    Change that we can believe in is that change which is 90% silver.
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Although AT has been used to cover up defective surfaces many times, the more popular use is to increase profit. As long as tarnish sells, it will continue. Cheers, RickO
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,768 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A lot of times the stuff that is used to AT the surface of the coin kills a lot or all of the mint surface that was left on the piece before the coin doctor played with it. When you dip that stuff off you remove a layer of metal, and the resulting coin will probably be dull and unattractive.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,268 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Be wary of trying to dip off something for which you have no knowledge of the origin. You might end up with a worse turd than you started with.
    theknowitalltroll;
  • TomBTomB Posts: 22,066 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Traditionally, AT was used to cover up a fault or defect. Today, however, AT seems to be the end goal to fleece the less knowledgeable.
    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,893 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I've seen quite a few coins in "stained" and "artificially toned" coins recently in slabs. I was just wondering if it's possible to buy one, crack it out, give it a quick dip and re-submit for a problem free holder? It seems rather logical to me. >>

    It's possible, but there's usually a reason for the AT.

    Here's an ANACS-slabbed MS60 20c piece I acquired. PCGS bagged it for questionable toning and I guessed that was the right call. So I cracked it and did an acetone dip, which removed all the organic toning some doctor applied.

    The result, as you can see, is a lifeless, stained coin, void of luster. I figure I'll make it my next forum give-away. Someone will enjoy it as a freebie.
    Lance.

    imageimage

    imageimage
    Coin Photography Services / Everyman Registry set / BHNC #213
  • GreeniejrGreeniejr Posts: 1,321 ✭✭✭
    It all depends how much of the original surface was eaten away by the toning. We bought in a 1917 SLQ in SEGS MS66FH with decent even toning on the obverse. PCGS bagged it, we dipped it, PCGS gave it a 65FH.
  • stealerstealer Posts: 4,029 ✭✭✭✭
    Ok, makes sense. Would you say it's worth the risk to buy the AT or stained coin just for the sake of dipping and resubmitting Greeniejr.
  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,893 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Ok, makes sense. Would you say it's worth the risk to buy the AT or stained coin just for the sake of dipping and resubmitting Greeniejr. >>

    Dipping often won't remove stains.

    I suppose if the price were right it might make sense to buy an AT coin. But there's too much risk for my taste, generally. Dipping may reveal underlying problems. It may strip luster. I wouldn't recommend what you're asking about.
    Lance.
    Coin Photography Services / Everyman Registry set / BHNC #213
  • rmpsrpmsrmpsrpms Posts: 1,947 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The result, as you can see, is a lifeless, stained coin, void of luster. I figure I'll make it my next forum give-away. Someone will enjoy it as a freebie.
    Lance. >>



    That's a perfect candidate for a pocket piece to give it some real character and let it tone naturally again.
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  • kurtdogkurtdog Posts: 1,456


    << <i>Here's an ANACS-slabbed MS60 20c piece I acquired. PCGS bagged it for questionable toning and I guessed that was the right call. So I cracked it and did an acetone dip, which removed all the organic toning some doctor applied. >>

    My first thought is that toning must have been very superficial for acetone alone to have done that. How long did you have it in the acetone?
  • rmpsrpmsrmpsrpms Posts: 1,947 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It appears the toning was "added", the most egregious form of doctoring. For it to look like that it must have been heavily dipped, and then some sort of paint or coating added that gave it a "toned" appearance. If it was some other item you'd call it "antique-ing" (or "antiquing"? I guess you could still call it that). Acetone removed the antiquing and left the over-dipped surface.

    Before you removed the offending substances, was it obvious that the coin had a surface finish added? Odd feel to it (if you tried touching it), different "ring" sound, or anything to help identify that it had been messed with?

    I wonder how many of the coins you see in dealer's showcases are doctored in this way?
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  • lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 8,554 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I've seen quite a few coins in "stained" and "artificially toned" coins recently in slabs. I was just wondering if it's possible to buy one, crack it out, give it a quick dip and re-submit for a problem free holder? It seems rather logical to me. >>

    It's possible, but there's usually a reason for the AT.

    Here's an ANACS-slabbed MS60 20c piece I acquired. PCGS bagged it for questionable toning and I guessed that was the right call. So I cracked it and did an acetone dip, which removed all the organic toning some doctor applied.

    The result, as you can see, is a lifeless, stained coin, void of luster. I figure I'll make it my next forum give-away. Someone will enjoy it as a freebie.
    Lance.

    imageimage

    imageimage >>



    This is the best representation I've seen that illustrates what coin doctors do to hide a dipped-out coin...
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  • tydyetydye Posts: 3,894 ✭✭✭
    Actetone alone did that? Wow!

    I have used acetone to remove PVC from silver coins but I never seen it strip the color like that. But then maybe I never dipped a AT one
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,268 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Unless it is rare why even mess with stained or ATd stuff. There are still plenty of white [or nearly so] coins out there.
    theknowitalltroll;
  • JRoccoJRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I've seen quite a few coins in "stained" and "artificially toned" coins recently in slabs. I was just wondering if it's possible to buy one, crack it out, give it a quick dip and re-submit for a problem free holder? It seems rather logical to me. >>

    It's possible, but there's usually a reason for the AT.

    Here's an ANACS-slabbed MS60 20c piece I acquired. PCGS bagged it for questionable toning and I guessed that was the right call. So I cracked it and did an acetone dip, which removed all the organic toning some doctor applied.

    The result, as you can see, is a lifeless, stained coin, void of luster. I figure I'll make it my next forum give-away. Someone will enjoy it as a freebie.
    Lance.

    imageimage

    imageimage >>



    This was just from an acetone bath Lance?
    I have never seen acetone remove this much from the surface of a coin.
    And I have left coins to soak in acetone overnight hundreds and hundreds of times...maybe thousands.
    Did this one look really boinked with layered on "stuff" other than artificial tarnish which
    acetone will not usually touch no matter how long the soaking?
    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,893 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, just acetone. And the dip lasted no more than 10 seconds. Before the dip I did not notice any unusual surface issues like laquer or paint. But I only inspected it in hand after cracking, not with a glass.

    I figure the surface damage occurred long ago and the toning was added to hide it.

    As most everyone knows, acetone will not harm NT.

    I was disappointed with the result but you have to get burned by coin doctors to truly hate them.

    A pocket piece is possible but it's a little small for that, and too easily lost among other similar size change. A give-away is in its future, I think.
    Lance.
    Coin Photography Services / Everyman Registry set / BHNC #213
  • kurtdogkurtdog Posts: 1,456


    << <i>Yes, just acetone. And the dip lasted no more than 10 seconds. >>

    Well, then, that toning was superficial, indeed. Maybe it was imparted from a darkener compound of some kind. It most certainly wasn't the work of any good coin doctor. A good coin doctor would have imparted natural tarnish to it through the use of a sulfur compound. Stripped clean, the coin does look like it had been exposed to an acid, maybe even polished, some, as well.
  • FrankcoinsFrankcoins Posts: 4,571 ✭✭✭
    This is a rare candidate for "harsh cleaning" It's already ruined, at least make it nice and shiny!
    Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
  • AngryTurtleAngryTurtle Posts: 1,586 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Yes, just acetone. And the dip lasted no more than 10 seconds. >>

    Well, then, that toning was superficial, indeed. Maybe it was imparted from a darkener compound of some kind. It most certainly wasn't the work of any good coin doctor. A good coin doctor would have imparted natural tarnish to it through the use of a sulfur compound. Stripped clean, the coin does look like it had been exposed to an acid, maybe even polished, some, as well. >>



    I am not an expert, but i know enough to say that there are many recipes for AT and altered surfaces, not all of them are accelerated natural toning with the help of heat and sulfur.
  • customrollcustomroll Posts: 523 ✭


    << <i>Yes, just acetone. And the dip lasted no more than 10 seconds. Before the dip I did not notice any unusual surface issues like laquer or paint. But I only inspected it in hand after cracking, not with a glass.

    I figure the surface damage occurred long ago and the toning was added to hide it.

    As most everyone knows, acetone will not harm NT.

    I was disappointed with the result but you have to get burned by coin doctors to truly hate them.

    A pocket piece is possible but it's a little small for that, and too easily lost among other similar size change. A give-away is in its future, I think.
    Lance. >>



    Gee, I've never had one of those

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