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AnkurJ
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I bought 5 grams of gold on the BST from a seller who will remain unnamed, unless he comes forward himself. He requested a check only, so I sent it. The check cleared, and 2 weeks passed with nothing. I went to my PO, nothing. The seller claims that I did not ask for insurance or delivery confirmation, so it is not his fault. Since I paid by check, I have no recourse other than mail fraud.
The seller did however agree to send me $170 as a refund, even though I paid him $220 for the bars. So thankfully I am not out everything, just $50.
What would you do in this case? Who is at fault? Seems like a good way to make a quick $50.....
AJ
I bought 5 grams of gold on the BST from a seller who will remain unnamed, unless he comes forward himself. He requested a check only, so I sent it. The check cleared, and 2 weeks passed with nothing. I went to my PO, nothing. The seller claims that I did not ask for insurance or delivery confirmation, so it is not his fault. Since I paid by check, I have no recourse other than mail fraud.
The seller did however agree to send me $170 as a refund, even though I paid him $220 for the bars. So thankfully I am not out everything, just $50.
What would you do in this case? Who is at fault? Seems like a good way to make a quick $50.....
AJ
All coins kept in bank vaults.
PCGS Registries
Box of 20
SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
PCGS Registries
Box of 20
SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
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Comments
<< <i>Why offer to refund $170 of $220?
Seller feels he is not at fault, and offered me this partial refund.
PCGS Registries
Box of 20
SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
John
Never view my other linked pages. They aren't coin related.
The seller did not get his part of the deal to the buyer.
The seller is at fault imho, as bad as it sucks for them if it is indeed the Post Offices fault.
Will’sProoflikes
<< <i>Nobody would go to that much trouble to make $50 in my opinion. Seems reasonable to assume he's telling the truth. I'd take the $170 and hope the package shows up at your house or his someday. Being out $50 is a lot better than being out $220.
John >>
Thats why I took the money. Otherwise if I waited, I would have nothing to show.
PCGS Registries
Box of 20
SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
<< <i>I bought 5 grams of gold on the BST from a seller who will remain unnamed,.....
.....What would you do in this case? Who is at fault? Seems like a good way to make a quick $50.....
AJ >>
Call Goldline today !
Sellers should figure insurance into the sales amount (either self-insurance or post office insurance (or 3rd party, whatever)). Not a seller I would want to deal with, imho.
Who's to say that seller didn't accidentally typo the name/address? No one can say yea or nay to that since the item hasn't shown up. There are things that cuold be his fault and he is hiding. I say he deserves to be outed for the $50 that he is keeping as he could have spent a couple bucks and not had an issue.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>Seller is pulling that old BS about "well, YOU didn't ask to pay for insurance so I owe you nothing"....that's BS.
Sellers should figure insurance into the sales amount (either self-insurance or post office insurance (or 3rd party, whatever)). Not a seller I would want to deal with, imho.
Who's to say that seller didn't accidentally typo the name/address? No one can say yea or nay to that since the item hasn't shown up. There are things that cuold be his fault and he is hiding. I say he deserves to be outed for the $50 that he is keeping as he could have spent a couple bucks and not had an issue. >>
Ankur doesn't need to out the seller. I'm sure you can figure it out.
"if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is"
I have gotten to the point where i send payment with tracking, that way i know when it gets there. I also ask about shipping when buying nowdays. 10 seconds talking can save a tonof headaches.
I hate to say it but something seems a little strange here. Spent 220 and get 170 back? The seller is out the gold and cash. 4 dollars worth of insurance would have saved 390 dollars.
I have sent 2500 packages and envelopes over the years from ebay sales. A year or 2 back i did not pay the 50 cents for about 6 items (non coins) that sold for around 10 to 20 bucks. I think i ended up refunding 4 or 5 of those sales because the buyers claimed the did not recieve them. Out of the other 2494 sent packages 2 did not get delivered with the goods. Insurance paid those 2 claims. It appears to me that some ebay shoppers feel that if you do not track the item you sold that just meaNS free money to them.
A little pre thought can save a lot of frustration and wasted time.
Ask for your 50 bucks back. Seller can mark it off as the cost of doing business the wrong way.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
Relax and wait. Give it another week. Ya know, stuff happens without it being a plot.
<< <i>You people have no idea how screwed the PO is right now. Yes, people scam, but stop thinking the worst.
Relax and wait. Give it another week. Ya know, stuff happens without it being a plot. >>
that is exactly the type of NORMAL response the seller should have had: "hey, Ankur, I shipped it first class, maybe the mail is slow. Give it a week and we will talk." But see, that didn't happen. Seller said "you didn't ask for DelCon or Ins, but I will give you 170 bucks back"
That's where the odor came in...
<< <i>It amazes me that the seller or shipper will not spend 50 cents to a few bucks to make sure everyone is protected in this day and age. While in a perfect world delivery confirmation and insurance would not be needed, the 1970's are long gone.
I have gotten to the point where i send payment with tracking, that way i know when it gets there.
I hate to say it but something seems a little strange here. Spent 220 and get 150 back? The seller is out the gold and cash. 4 dollars worth of insurance would have saved 370 dollars. >>
I'm not so sure the seller is out the gold......he may, or may not, be. A couple bucks worth of insurance and then both sides would have been protected.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I knew it would happen.
You are simply asking to be defrauded otherwise ...
Sunnywood's Rainbow-Toned Morgans (Retired)
Sunnywood's Barber Quarters (Retired)
you fulfilled your end now its there turn.
To many problems with the postal service to ignor safe guards
like insurance and delivery confirmation all this would of cost under $10??
PCGS Registries
Box of 20
SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
Edited to remove the word scumbag.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
PCGS Registries
Box of 20
SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
<< <i>Seller owes you the money. Do us all a favor and post the seller's name here. >>
do us all a favor like Tom sez
http://www.vjolt.net/vol6/issue3/v6i3-a15-Gardenswartz.html
The default terms, absent a contract, are that the seller is responsible until he drops the item in the mail...at which point it belongs to the buyer.
Insurance protects the BUYER during transit. Some sellers will assume this liability as a customer service, but they cannot be legally required to do so.
Ebay and credit card companies force the seller to provide, in effect, free insurance, but if you paid by check there are no such "free" benefits.
<< <i>It is the duty of the seller to deliver the goods to you. Insurance and confirmation are to protect the seller. >>
That's an ebay rule. BST is not ebay. For purchases off ebay buyer is responsible for making sure purchase price includes insurance. Buyer in this case shares some responsibility, probably $50 worth.
Rampant currency debasement will be the most important investment trend of this decade, and it will devastate most people.
- Nick Giambruno Buy dollar insurance now, because the policy will cost more as the dollar becomes worth less.
<< <i>Funny how everyone sides with AnkurJ on this automatically. How do you know he didn't receive the gold, noticed there was no tracking or insurance and decided to claim he didn't get them? Not saying this is the case but it is possible. >>
Well, let's see. He has been a member here since Sept. 2006 and has over 4150 posts. I think that is a long time just to set up a $200 scam.
I don't see it as being possible.
<< <i>Funny how everyone sides with AnkurJ on this automatically. How do you know he didn't receive the gold, noticed there was no tracking or insurance and decided to claim he didn't get them? Not saying this is the case but it is possible. >>
Human nature being what it is, if that were the case, we would have likely heard from the seller and not the OP about this......or, did you just want to stir things up a bit?
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>
<< <i>It is the duty of the seller to deliver the goods to you. Insurance and confirmation are to protect the seller. >>
That's an ebay rule. BST is not ebay. For purchases off ebay buyer is responsible for making sure purchase price includes insurance. Buyer in this case shares some responsibility, probably $50 worth. >>
You are so wrong I can't stop laughing.
If I pay a delivered agreed upon price for anything from anybody in any venue it is the sellers responsibility to get the item to me. Period. If not I rescind payment. I never pay a stranger with an instrument that I cannot recall.
No court would ever make anyone pay for something they didn't receive. End of story.
<< <i>
<< <i>Funny how everyone sides with AnkurJ on this automatically. How do you know he didn't receive the gold, noticed there was no tracking or insurance and decided to claim he didn't get them? Not saying this is the case but it is possible. >>
Human nature being what it is, if that were the case, we would have likely heard from the seller and not the OP about this......or, did you just want to stir things up a bit? >>
Just playing Devil's advocate...
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Funny how everyone sides with AnkurJ on this automatically. How do you know he didn't receive the gold, noticed there was no tracking or insurance and decided to claim he didn't get them? Not saying this is the case but it is possible. >>
Human nature being what it is, if that were the case, we would have likely heard from the seller and not the OP about this......or, did you just want to stir things up a bit? >>
Just playing Devil's advocate... >>
So, stirring it up it is.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>It is the duty of the seller to deliver the goods to you. Insurance and confirmation are to protect the seller. >>
That's an ebay rule. BST is not ebay. For purchases off ebay buyer is responsible for making sure purchase price includes insurance. Buyer in this case shares some responsibility, probably $50 worth. >>
You are so wrong I can't stop laughing.
If I pay a delivered agreed upon price for anything from anybody in any venue it is the sellers responsibility to get the item to me. Period. If not I rescind payment. I never pay a stranger with an instrument that I cannot recall.
No court would ever make anyone pay for something they didn't receive. End of story. >>
Keep laughing. Ever heard of FOB (freight on board)? Google is your friend.
Rampant currency debasement will be the most important investment trend of this decade, and it will devastate most people.
- Nick Giambruno Buy dollar insurance now, because the policy will cost more as the dollar becomes worth less.
<< <i>im assuming because the seller never OFFERED insurance, the buyer did not ask for it either, and obviously it was never discussed, or it was ASSUMED the seller would pay all postage, insurance, and etc, why a buyer would not at least ASK is very odd. about as odd as the seller not protecting himself in the VERY least with delivery confirmation. and to all those that keep spouting how it is the "seller's responsibility" to deliver the item, is that a new fact or is it just your clouded misconception ? i challenge anyone to provide proof of such a law. put your money where your mouth is. the rest of the world is not as lopsided to the buyers favor as ebay is. and people need to make themselves aware of that >>
there is no such law, that's why ebay has established and published their particular policy. in any agreement it is up to the two parties to agree upon division of responsibility. Whether verbal are written there was no aggreement in this case on division of responsibility of getting item into the hands of buyer. Ii was obviously assumed differently by both parties. both parties had a failure of responsibility here and seller made a more than reasonable offer to accept his.
LESSON LEARNED FOR ALL - Both parties need to be clear on responsibility up to point of delivery.
Rampant currency debasement will be the most important investment trend of this decade, and it will devastate most people.
- Nick Giambruno Buy dollar insurance now, because the policy will cost more as the dollar becomes worth less.
If you really want to know the exact law look it up, or have your attorney explain it to you.
<< <i>First of all it is not the buyers obligation to ask the seller about insurance. Insurance is to protect the sellers goods until they are received by the buyer. If the seller does not buy insurance he is going self insured. Not sure of the exact law, but I'm sure there is one that states that if a seller accepts money for goods or services he is obligated to provide those goods or services to the buyer or must refund the buyers money.
If you really want to know the exact law look it up, or have your attorney explain it to you. >>
it is the buyer's obligation to himself to ask the seller about insurance. there is no law that covers this. the courts will look only at the agreement or the contract between the two parties. This is why sales contracts involving the delivery of goods always specify terms of delivery.
Your ebay frame of mind will eventually cause you grief as it did Ankur.
Rampant currency debasement will be the most important investment trend of this decade, and it will devastate most people.
- Nick Giambruno Buy dollar insurance now, because the policy will cost more as the dollar becomes worth less.
If insurance is not specifically included in a seller's proposal then there is no requirement to provide it. A smart buyer will insist on insurance at which point seller may or may not want to increase his quote to include it. The agreement may completely collapse because neither party will budge on who foots the insurance cost.
It's obvious a lot of replies here are based on those that think ebay's "policy" is because of a legal requirement. It is not. It is just good business practice for them to set policy and stick with it to avoid unlimited future disputes on the subject. And since most sellers on ebay know that ebay holds them responsible for insurance they build it into their price. Since most buyers on ebay know that ebay holds seller completely responsible for insurance, they assume the same applies to BST transactions.
Rampant currency debasement will be the most important investment trend of this decade, and it will devastate most people.
- Nick Giambruno Buy dollar insurance now, because the policy will cost more as the dollar becomes worth less.
<< <i>Suppose Ankur had received the gold, but it got damaged during shipment. With no insurance who is responsible now? Seller fullfilled his obligation when he had it delivered priority mail just like he said he would in the agreement. Without any specification that seller is to provide insurance, seller is not responsible for insurance. In this case buyer failed to make sure that seller provided insurance, he assumed seller provided insurance. Outside of ebay there is nothing that says it is a seller's responsibility to provide insurance.
If insurance is not specifically included in a seller's proposal then there is no requirement to provide it. A smart buyer will insist on insurance at which point seller may or may not want to increase his quote to include it. The agreement may completely collapse because neither party will budge on who foots the insurance cost.
It's obvious a lot of replies here are based on those that think ebay's "policy" is because of a legal requirement. It is not. It is just good business practice for them to set policy and stick with it to avoid unlimited future disputes on the subject. And since most sellers on ebay know that ebay holds them responsible for insurance they build it into their price. Since most buyers on ebay know that ebay holds seller completely responsible for insurance, they assume the same applies to BST transactions. >>
You are right, Ebay and the real world are different. I generally ask about the shipping when i buy anything that is going to be shipped. There are a lot of companies that just stamp and dump. How come bills never get lost in the mail? Just the payments?
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
<< <i>I would ask the seller for a scan of his mailing receipt. If he didn't produce this, I'd conclude I had been cheated. >>
I agree! I keep copies of every single PO receipt when shipping an item. The seller should have at the very least paid for delivery confirmation.
Franklin-Lover's Forum
<< <i>Consumers who buy goods bear the risk of loss from the time the seller “duly delivers” them to a carrier. In contrast, consumers whose goods are delivered by the seller, whether in a store or in the seller’s own truck, bear no risk of loss until they actually receive the goods.
http://www.vjolt.net/vol6/issue3/v6i3-a15-Gardenswartz.html
The default terms, absent a contract, are that the seller is responsible until he drops the item in the mail...at which point it belongs to the buyer.
Insurance protects the BUYER during transit. Some sellers will assume this liability as a customer service, but they cannot be legally required to do so.
Ebay and credit card companies force the seller to provide, in effect, free insurance, but if you paid by check there are no such "free" benefits. >>
This is the correct answer.
<< <i>You are so wrong I can't stop laughing.
If I pay a delivered agreed upon price for anything from anybody in any venue it is the sellers responsibility to get the item to me. Period. If not I rescind payment. I never pay a stranger with an instrument that I cannot recall.
No court would ever make anyone pay for something they didn't receive. End of story. >>
You are clueless.