Count me in as one of the skeptics. If it is a 68dcam, why leave so much money on the table? Of course, with a return policy, all you risk is shipping.
Here is one of my two dcams for the date (I also have an Ultracam).
It is very difficult to find halves with max contrast in 1959 - PCGS dcams are really really hard to find. Edited to add - the coin above is a 66 dcam.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
I just looked at the auction pictures again and here are my thoughts on same.
The lighting definitely increases the contrast between the frosted devices and the mirrored fields. The intensity of the frost and the blackness of the fields has been ratcheted up. In hand the coin probably looks less attractive than it does in the pictures. The intensity of the frost is probably less. The fields may have hairlines or other impairments.
However, one thing that the pictures do show me that I think is "real" is the quality of the frost on the devices on both sides of the coin. The coin has matching two sided frost that is thick and even across the devices. When I have found 1959 proof halves with frosted devices, the coins usually have mismatched frost [heavier on the obverse and lighter on the reverse], or have matching two sided frost that at best is light to moderate in intensity. Not so with the coin up for auction. The frost on both sides is even and very thick.
Unless photography is so advanced [maybe it is, I do not know] that one can create thick even frost in a picture that does not exist on the coin being photgraphed, I would say that the coin being auctioned is of very high quality [again, acknowledging that hairlines could be on the coin and that the frost is less than what is shown in the picture].
Maybe I just want this coin to be the real deal so that the high bidder can get a "You Suck" from the forums.
congrats on the guts to admit purchase before receipt
if you have photo capabilities - possibly supply us with a couple - one making look as close to DCAM as possible and another making look as close to brilliant as possible
good luck (don't worry if you can't supply photos)
sounds to me like the entire coin is mirrored rather than having super frosted devices. If that is indeed the case i would get the return going quickly but do take a real pic for use please . If the seller gives you any problems as far as the return goes, this is a perfect example of an item Not as described.
I am surprised you sent it to PCGS vice back to the seller.
I think a return will become much harder after this.... if you received it, examined it, chose to have PCGS grade it, then claim it is not as described, I don't know..... The seller can say you had a return privelidge and if the coin was not as described you should have used it. Understand the PCGS grade will help say it is not as described, but your risk has gone up in my opinion.
It is my personal opinion that once someone elects to "roll the dice" and send a coin to the grading service rather than return it for a no questions asked return, the return privilege is void (absent an agreement to the contrary made between buyer and seller ahead of time).
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< <i>I am surprised you sent it to PCGS vice back to the seller.
I think a return will become much harder after this.... if you received it, examined it, chose to have PCGS grade it, then claim it is not as described, I don't know..... The seller can say you had a return privelidge and if the coin was not as described you should have used it. Understand the PCGS grade will help say it is not as described, but your risk has gone up in my opinion. >>
From the item description:
I WILL OFFER A FULL MONEY BACK 4 DAY RETURN ON THIS COIN.
I'm afraid that this will be a $745 (+ grading fees) lesson!
<< <i>I am surprised you sent it to PCGS vice back to the seller.
I think a return will become much harder after this.... if you received it, examined it, chose to have PCGS grade it, then claim it is not as described, I don't know..... The seller can say you had a return privelidge and if the coin was not as described you should have used it. Understand the PCGS grade will help say it is not as described, but your risk has gone up in my opinion. >>
From the item description:
I WILL OFFER A FULL MONEY BACK 4 DAY RETURN ON THIS COIN.
I'm afraid that this will be a $745 (+ grading fees) lesson! >>
<< <i>It is my personal opinion that once someone elects to "roll the dice" and send a coin to the grading service rather than return it for a no questions asked return, the return privilege is void (absent an agreement to the contrary made between buyer and seller ahead of time).
Wondercoin >>
The days of buying a coin and removing from the holder are no longer considered sold?
If you buy a coin and chose to send it to a TPG because you can not tell if the coin is described is ludicrous, just send the coin back as recieved.
As a seller i would expect the coin to stay in the same flip i shipped it in. Once removed i have no idea what you have done to the coin.
If you score, all is fine. If you do not score you cry like a baby to get your money returned anyway you can.
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
<< <i>I dont think neither paypal nor amex will honor a 4 day return privileged - if it deviates from what he (or she) described it to be... >>
The return privilege offered is for you to decide if you want to keep the coin, or return it if it doesn't meet your expectations (read: "deviates from what he (or she) described it to be"). If you wanted more than four days to make that decision, you had no business bidding in that auction.
It is my personal opinion that once someone elects to "roll the dice" and send a coin to the grading service rather than return it for a no questions asked return, the return privilege is void (absent an agreement to the contrary made between buyer and seller ahead of time).
Wondercoin - Even if the coin is walked through and the return privilege is exercised within the given 4 days? If that's what you think, I'd love to hear your rationale.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>I think with a grade of non dcam by a grading company will solidify a not as described case. >>
I wish you all the luck in the world .........but can see little possibility of returning the coin after submission ; unless you have the sellers blessing
Andy: I think "technically" the return probably meets the strict language of the return policy (as it was written) if it is returned within the 4 days. I'll give you that.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Andy: And your view... AFTER the 4th day and with sending the coin to PCGS ... is the return valid if the coin fails to meet a grade that would yield the buyer a profit on his purchase?
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Andy: And your view... AFTER the 4th day and with sending the coin to PCGS ... is the return valid if the coin fails to meet a grade that would yield the buyer a profit on his purchase?
Of course not. After the 4th day, they only cause for returning the coin would be if it's counterfeit, and even that would depend on the specifics of the deal.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
So let me get this straight... rather than simply returning the coin for a full refund, you're going to send the coin to PCGS without contacting the seller first for an extension for certification, and if the coin comes back at such a grade (or nongrade) whereby you don't stand to make oodles of money, you'll deliberately violate the return period in the original listing, with the justification of "PayPal has my back."???
Please list your eBay userID. I'm sure there are any number of sellers here that would LOVE to block you right about now.
Unfrickinbelievable.
Personally, I believe that regardless of stated return privilege, once the coin is removed from the seller's holder (and especially once it is encapsulated by PCGS), the coin is no longer in the condition sold by the seller, and is therefore unreturnable. I don't know how PayPal or eBay will interpret the reholdering of a coin, but I sure as hell would argue it to the fullest extent.
Incompetence in the series is showing here. It's fairly easy to determine a CAM and DCAM and if you're incapable of doing so, it is not the seller's problem. You have a return policy that you can use. Doing anything else which extends this time period is yours to eat. Just my two cents.
with the description the buyer is giving for this coin, i highly doubt it will even make cameo. What many people fail to realize that ebay auctions ect are contracts. If you bid you agree to the terms of the sale the seller has put forth and agree to pay. The seller also agrees to sell you the item if you are the higher bidder. Neither party has the right to change those terms after the fact without the others consent.
Comments
Here is one of my two dcams for the date (I also have an Ultracam).
It is very difficult to find halves with max contrast in 1959 - PCGS dcams are really really hard to find.
Edited to add - the coin above is a 66 dcam.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
Sells a lot of cameo coins, so my guess is a lot of juiced pics.
Seems all he sells are Monster Deep Cameos. He must have the market cornered
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
<< <i>The guy has pretty low rating for "coin as described"
Sells a lot of cameo coins, so my guess is a lot of juiced pics. >>
That's a interesting and very valid point that has not been brought up before now James
i would say so ........since a Dcam PR 68 (current Pop. 1 ) would probably bring in excess of 30,000.00 !
Oh what a joy to buy a 30K coin for a grand
pure imblicablosity ! , I think the coin is white
The lighting definitely increases the contrast between the frosted devices and the mirrored fields. The intensity of the frost and the blackness of the fields has been ratcheted up. In hand the coin probably looks less attractive than it does in the pictures. The intensity of the frost is probably less. The fields may have hairlines or other impairments.
However, one thing that the pictures do show me that I think is "real" is the quality of the frost on the devices on both sides of the coin. The coin has matching two sided frost that is thick and even across the devices. When I have found 1959 proof halves with frosted devices, the coins usually have mismatched frost [heavier on the obverse and lighter on the reverse], or have matching two sided frost that at best is light to moderate in intensity. Not so with the coin up for auction. The frost on both sides is even and very thick.
Unless photography is so advanced [maybe it is, I do not know] that one can create thick even frost in a picture that does not exist on the coin being photgraphed, I would say that the coin being auctioned is of very high quality [again, acknowledging that hairlines could be on the coin and that the frost is less than what is shown in the picture].
Maybe I just want this coin to be the real deal so that the high bidder can get a "You Suck" from the forums.
<< <i>Returns: 3 day money back, buyer pays return shipping | Read return policy details >>
Is the winning bidder a forum member?
If so, show yourself and give us your thoughts.
I will let everybody know what it "really" looks like.
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
if you have photo capabilities - possibly supply us with
a couple - one making look as close to DCAM as possible
and another making look as close to brilliant as possible
good luck (don't worry if you can't supply photos)
Photo would be even better
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
<< <i>Either way....the forum will be updated >>
I thought about bidding on it until the price left the launch pad.
Successful Trades: Swampboy,
Did you know about this EBay auction prior to my posting this thread, or did you learn about this auction from reading this thread?
If you learned about the auction from reading this thread, then I will have some direct connection to you either:
1. Hitting a home run [if the coin is as good in hand as it looks in the auction pictures]; or
2. Receiving a a coin that is of lesser quality than what is represented in the auction.
I hope you hit a home run and look forward to your update, with your own pictures, after you receive the coin.
<< <i>Received the coin. Looks "PR" let alone CAM. >>
So it's not cam?
Franklin-Lover's Forum
<< <i>Received the coin. Looks "PR" let alone CAM. >>
Whatever that means doesn't sound $750 good.
<< <i>Received the coin. Looks "PR" let alone CAM. >>
I for one was really looking forward to your assessment when you got it in hand ...........
I think every one is in agreement it's a "proof" ...............
could you elaborate just a tad about the contrast ??
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
I think a return will become much harder after this.... if you received it, examined it, chose to have PCGS grade it, then claim it is not as described, I don't know..... The seller can say you had a return privelidge and if the coin was not as described you should have used it. Understand the PCGS grade will help say it is not as described, but your risk has gone up in my opinion.
Wondercoin
<< <i>I am surprised you sent it to PCGS vice back to the seller.
I think a return will become much harder after this.... if you received it, examined it, chose to have PCGS grade it, then claim it is not as described, I don't know..... The seller can say you had a return privelidge and if the coin was not as described you should have used it. Understand the PCGS grade will help say it is not as described, but your risk has gone up in my opinion. >>
From the item description:
I WILL OFFER A FULL MONEY BACK 4 DAY RETURN ON THIS COIN.
I'm afraid that this will be a $745 (+ grading fees) lesson!
<< <i>
<< <i>I am surprised you sent it to PCGS vice back to the seller.
I think a return will become much harder after this.... if you received it, examined it, chose to have PCGS grade it, then claim it is not as described, I don't know..... The seller can say you had a return privelidge and if the coin was not as described you should have used it. Understand the PCGS grade will help say it is not as described, but your risk has gone up in my opinion. >>
From the item description:
I WILL OFFER A FULL MONEY BACK 4 DAY RETURN ON THIS COIN.
I'm afraid that this will be a $745 (+ grading fees) lesson!
Memo to self .... keep up the "business plan" of trying to avoid selling on ebay wherever/whenever possible.
Wondercoin
a disaster
occurring in slow motion
<< <i>It is my personal opinion that once someone elects to "roll the dice" and send a coin to the grading service rather than return it for a no questions asked return, the return privilege is void (absent an agreement to the contrary made between buyer and seller ahead of time).
Wondercoin >>
The days of buying a coin and removing from the holder are no longer considered sold?
If you buy a coin and chose to send it to a TPG because you can not tell if the coin is described is ludicrous, just send the coin back as recieved.
As a seller i would expect the coin to stay in the same flip i shipped it in. Once removed i have no idea what you have done to the coin.
If you score, all is fine. If you do not score you cry like a baby to get your money returned anyway you can.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
<< <i>I dont think neither paypal nor amex will honor a 4 day return privileged - if it deviates from what he (or she) described it to be... >>
The return privilege offered is for you to decide if you want to keep the coin, or return it if it doesn't meet your expectations (read: "deviates from what he (or she) described it to be"). If you wanted more than four days to make that decision, you had no business bidding in that auction.
Wondercoin - Even if the coin is walked through and the return privilege is exercised within the given 4 days? If that's what you think, I'd love to hear your rationale.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Unless you have no faith in your grading skills why send it to PCGS at all (as opposed to returning it ASAP)?
You need (pretty much at least) 68CAM or 64DCAM to make it a keeper. No?
<< <i>I think with a grade of non dcam by a grading company will solidify a not as described case. >>
I wish you all the luck in the world .........but can see little possibility of returning the coin after submission ; unless you have the sellers blessing
Wondercoin
Wondercoin
Of course not. After the 4th day, they only cause for returning the coin would be if it's counterfeit, and even that would depend on the specifics of the deal.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>No way PR68
I would say 62-63.
That scrape on the cheek is going to weigh heavily on the grade >>
Then buys the coin for an outrageous price. Something does not check out.....
So let me get this straight... rather than simply returning the coin for a full refund, you're going to send the coin to PCGS without contacting the seller first for an extension for certification, and if the coin comes back at such a grade (or nongrade) whereby you don't stand to make oodles of money, you'll deliberately violate the return period in the original listing, with the justification of "PayPal has my back."???
Please list your eBay userID. I'm sure there are any number of sellers here that would LOVE to block you right about now.
Unfrickinbelievable.
Personally, I believe that regardless of stated return privilege, once the coin is removed from the seller's holder (and especially once it is encapsulated by PCGS), the coin is no longer in the condition sold by the seller, and is therefore unreturnable. I don't know how PayPal or eBay will interpret the reholdering of a coin, but I sure as hell would argue it to the fullest extent.
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
We have a tough guy behind the computer.