Home› U.S. Coin Forum
Options

Any idea why PCGS called this Altered Surface? WARNING big images - FLAW FOUND AND REVEALED

MoonbiterMoonbiter Posts: 652 ✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
EDIT: WTCG and Sinin1 got it. Took it to the VP of our club who owns a coin shop. Took him a bit, but there is light alteration in front of Liberty in the field. You have to hold the coin at the right angle and have liberty facing you to see the hairlines.

When I initially looked at the coin, the luster looked good and only broke where that area is but as a rookie mistake I did not examine the coin from ALL angles. I looked at it with date facing me and the field looked good.

This alteration is so good, I'm taking this coin, a PCGS graded 1902 S $1 and an obvious altered Morgan dollar and do a presentation on grading. I'm sure lots of the club members are going to miss the alteration on the coin above. This will be a good learning presentation that will benefit everyone.

Thanks for looking everyone.

/EDIT:



ORIGINAL TEXT:

Sorry for such large images but I think they are needed for people to get a good look at the coin.

I am not sure why this coin came back altered surface. Liberty's cheek looks fine (not thumbed) to me, and the reverse looks good to. The only thing I can think of, is the marks on the eagles breast and or the word "trust". Other then that, I have no idea.

It's an 1890 CC

Thanks for any input.

image

image

Comments

  • Options
    AngryTurtleAngryTurtle Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭
    Hard to tell from the pics, but Liberties cheek looks fishy, perhaps puttied?
  • Options
    mcarney1173mcarney1173 Posts: 927 ✭✭✭✭✭
    wow, the coin looks fine to me. Lets see what others have to say...
  • Options
    jdillanejdillane Posts: 2,366 ✭✭✭
    Not sure but I'd keep my focus on the cheek.
  • Options
    MoonbiterMoonbiter Posts: 652 ✭✭
    what would be some signs of being puttied?
  • Options
    edix2001edix2001 Posts: 3,388 ✭
    Dullness on cheek
    member, Greater Houston Coin Club - Edwin's Coin Cabinet
  • Options
    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 35,866 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think Ms. Liberty's cheek has been "thumbed." There could also be something going on in the area around the 10th through 12th stars, but I'd have to see the coin in person to be sure.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • Options
    Coin FinderCoin Finder Posts: 7,760 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The coin sniffer must have sniffed something out..
  • Options
    MoonbiterMoonbiter Posts: 652 ✭✭
    I think what you see between those stars is the luster showing in the photo. The surface looks good in that area under 10x magnification. Looking at Liberty's cheek, you can see bag marks still and the surface looks natural. However I"m not an expert. Holding the coin at different angles doesn't show the cheek to look unnatural. Once again, I'm not any expert. Guess it might be something I'd have to have people look at in person.
  • Options
    19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,503 ✭✭✭✭
    Whats that emanating from the back of the eye?
    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
  • Options
    WTCGWTCG Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭
    Most of the obverse just doesn't look right. The luster patterns are inconsistent, especially on the devices and upper field behind the hair,and there are numerous breaks in luster which would signal alterations of the original surface. The reverse looks fine.

    From experience, Morgans that share that similar look will more often than not be ungradeable.
    Follow me on Twitter @wtcgroup
    Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
  • Options
    sinin1sinin1 Posts: 7,500 ✭
    there must be a luster break somewhere that is not easily seen in the pic
    but can be seen when rotating the coin under light



    others have mentioned the cheek
    I am wondering about the field area below the chin to the 3rd star


    thumbed, puttied, whizzed, plated, - PCGS saw something

    and probably just a little area covering a problem
  • Options
    MikeInFLMikeInFL Posts: 10,192 ✭✭✭✭
    Thumbed was my first reaction. Hits on cheek should be shinier, but aren't. Luster also looks odd.
    Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
  • Options
    MoonbiterMoonbiter Posts: 652 ✭✭
    WTCG and Sinin1 got it. Took it to the VP of our club who owns a coin shop. Took him a bit, but there is light alteration in front of Liberty in the field. You have to hold the coin at the right angle and have liberty facing you to see the hairlines.

    When I initially looked at the coin, the luster looked good and only broke where that area is but as a rookie mistake I did not examine the coin from ALL angles. I looked at it with date facing me and the field looked good.

    This alteration is so good, I'm taking this coin, a PCGS graded 1902 S $1 and an obvious altered Morgan dollar and do a presentation on grading. I'm sure lots of the club members are going to miss the alteration on the coin above. This will be a good learning presentation that will benefit everyone.

    Thanks for looking everyone.
  • Options
    AngryTurtleAngryTurtle Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭
    If you want to try an experiment, a bath in acetone will remove any putty or thumbing...
  • Options
    PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 47,590 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Hard to tell from the pics, but Liberties cheek looks fishy, perhaps puttied? >>



    Cheek looks thumbed.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • Options
    DesertDwellerDesertDweller Posts: 75
    I see a scrape behind Liberty's eye to the right. If you follow it to the left towards the E you can see some faint distortion in the field. Looks like the field was worked to eliminate the scrape.
    “Honesty is the first chapter in the book of wisdom.” Thomas Jefferson
  • Options
    PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 47,590 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>If you want to try an experiment, a bath in acetone will remove any putty or thumbing... >>



    Acetone doesn't remove the effects of thumbing which involves taking some nose grease and rubbing it with your thumb into Liberty's cheek. The friction dulls any marks on the cheek and helps them to blend into the surrounding surfaces.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • Options
    AngryTurtleAngryTurtle Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>If you want to try an experiment, a bath in acetone will remove any putty or thumbing... >>



    Acetone doesn't remove the effects of thumbing which involves taking some nose grease and rubbing it with your thumb into Liberty's cheek. The friction dulls any marks on the cheek and helps them to blend into the surrounding surfaces. >>



    Acetone will remove the nose grease, if the surface of the metal has been modified by friction, it will not remove that.
  • Options
    FlynJackFlynJack Posts: 7
    I am probably wrong, but the area at the very bottom of the bust, where it comes to a point, looks altered to me.
    FlynJack
  • Options
    kurtdogkurtdog Posts: 1,456


    << <i>I am probably wrong, but the area at the very bottom of the bust, where it comes to a point, looks altered to me. >>

    FlynJack, is your browser Firefox? If it is, get zoomFox, it's a free program. When I zoomFox that area, it looks like just a small dent, not a die anomaly.
  • Options
    kurtdogkurtdog Posts: 1,456


    << <i>I am not sure why this coin came back altered surface. Liberty's cheek looks fine (not thumbed) to me, and the reverse looks good to. The only thing I can think of, is the marks on the eagles breast and or the word "trust". Other then that, I have no idea.

    It's an 1890 CC

    Thanks for any input. >>

    That's crazy. Take it out of that slab and put it in a cheap air-tight or send it off to another TPG (NGC, SEGS, whomever).

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Format
SpoilerCodeQuote
Heading 2Heading 1
Emoji
:):D:(;):/:o:s:p:'(:|B):#:*<3o:)>:)
Url
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file
Home • U.S. Coin ForumComment As ...