Reflections on ANA Boston (incl newps)
jonathanb
Posts: 3,779 ✭✭✭✭✭
Phew. That was a long week.
I haven't been to an ANA show in 28 years, since the last time it was in Boston. I didn't quite know what to expect from this one, except "bigger than I'm used to". In the end I spent two days at the pre-shows, four days at the ANA proper, and I still need to go back before the end of the month and see the Mass. Historial Society exhibit at their headquarters.
It was great meeting a lot of folks that I only knew previously from the boards here and elsewhere online.
I can't imagine what it would take to man a table for five days by yourself, as many dealers did. I've said it before and I'll keep saying it: I have nothing but respect for the folks who expect to make living doing this.
From a personal perspective, the show was everything I hoped for. I spent the first two days just talking to the folks I knew I "had to" talk to, and not even all of them at that. It took me another two days to see the rest of the tables. In general, I seem to spend fifteen minutes to a half hour at a table that has stuff that I want to look through, and the day goes pretty quickly when you start adding those up. I didn't get to see the exhibits until the very last day, when I (correctly) figured that the dealers would start disappearing before the scheduled exhibit removal time.
I had no problems selling stuff I wanted to sell. In fact, I started the year with an idea that I would "save up" all sorts of neat stuff because I'd have no problems selling whatever I wanted to sell at the ANA. Around June I found the hole in that cunning plan when I realized that I had saved up literally more stuff than I could carry. Oops! So in the end I only brought some of the stuff that I'd saved to sell, adding more pieces on later days as I freed up room (and weight) via earlier sales.
I'll never stop being amazed at how different people like different things. I can show the same box o' stuff to three (or ten) different people, and each of them will stop and pull out different items. This isn't even a matter of pricing, where different people think that an item is worth more or less. I'm not surprised at different opinions of value. I'm simply talking about whether people stop to look at an item at all.
Even after six days I have a couple of pieces left that I thought "for sure" would have been snapped up immediately. For the most part, the pieces that didn't sell were ones that are outside my main interests. Every so often I get seduced into buying something I wouldn't normally buy, simply because the price is right. I've got to remember that I like buying more than I like selling. I had a very rare (but unpopular) colonial coin, and several scarce European tokens that I probably could have sold with the right effort... but it always came down to what I enjoy doing. I enjoy sittind down at a dealer's table and looking through lots of stuff that interests me. I don't enjoy trying to make a sale to someone who has a case full of things that I don't care to look at while he is looking at mine. Personal preference. I'd simply be better off if I remembered my own preference more often.
The best remaining pieces I suppose will now go to auction, which should be fine anyway.
I also saw a couple of pieces for sale in dealers' cases that I'm pretty sure I owned several years ago. I always get a grin from that.
Buying was much more of a mixed bag for me than selling. There were many seriously drool-worthy pieces at the show... but many of the best were explicity not for sale, and many of the rest were priced "optimistically". I've got pretty good records for the rarity and auction prices for the pieces I care about, and I'm not in a hurry. I'd rather buy one or two pieces that I are truly rare, and not get sidetracked on other pieces that are plenty neat but that will show up again in another few months or few years. In fact, the only _really_ neat piece I found was at practically the last table I stopped at, well after lunch on Saturday. That was a super-rare US Mint medal in gold, and in great condition to boot. Unfortunately, it also wasn't for sale. :-( Now I have to see if it shows up at auction somewhere so I can bid on it that way.
In all, I bought less than 1/3 as much as I sold. That includes a half-dozen pieces that I bought specifically for other people (although not all of them know it yet), and two others that I sold at the show after buying them at the show (always nice, that). Obligatory newps pictures are at the bottom of this post.
In fact, my best purchase -- by far -- for the week wasn't at the show but on eBay, where I ended up winning something for less than 2% of my snipe bid. Now, that's not exactly a fair comparison because you never know when a score like that will turn up, but still.
It was VERY helpful to have publishers and supplies vendors that had copies of books actually available to look at and flip through. There were at least two books that I've known about for a while that turned into instant purchases once I could hold a copy outside of shrinkwrap and see what was in them. It's a little too bad that I couldn't buy the books right then, so I could give them instant feedback for doing a Good Thing. I didn't want to have to carry the books around the show for the rest of they day. I'll buy them online and get them shipped.
The collector exhibits were amazing. Shame on anyone who attended the ANA but skipped the exhibits. On the other hand, shame on the ANA for an exhibit scoring system that favors the technical aspects of the exhibit itself over the merits of the actual collection being displayed.
You want to win an award at an ANA show? Put one item in the center of a case, with lots and lots of descriptive text around it. Bonus points for also including an enlargment of the single item, although that's optional.
You want to spend thirty years building a jaw-dropping COLLECTION? Good for you, but don't expect recognition for putting it into an exhibit.
There was an amazing collection showing examples of every piece of paper money issued by a Massachusetts bank (less three pieces, I think) that got no award at all. If I was impressed -- and I don't even collect paper money -- it must really have been something to someone who cared about that sort of thing.
There was another exhibit showing all sorts of Massachusetts silver coins, including massively rare ones, high grade pieces, and many of the Red Book plate coins (along with lots of other provenance) that got no award. Again, not an area that I collect, and I was still in awe.
John Sallay displayed his world-best collection of school award medals, with really great writeups both by chronology and by theme, and over 200 really really really rare pieces (including many unique specimens) spread across 5-10 display case. That's an area that I actually do collect a bit, at least where it overlaps some areas such as US Mint medals, and I can appreciate the collection directly. It got only a second place award.
In contrast, the first prize award in the convention theme category showed a collection that wasn't technically difficult, wasn't complete, and only had a tenuous connection to the convention theme. What it did have was a display that looked great from a technical perspective. I have no problems saying that it was a museum quality display. The collection within the display was "fine", and maybe even "very nice", but really nothing spectacular.
There's got to be something wrong with a scoring system where the collection itself is only an afterthought.
Kudos to the ANA and everyone involved with putting on a great show!
NEWPS:
This is an award for the Philadelphia Dog Show Association. Or maybe it's a badge. It might even be a medal. I don't exactly know what it is, but it struck my fancy, and sometimes that's enough. I don't see any signature or edgemark. The non-round shape an enameling make it unlikely to be a US Mint product. The quality is pretty high, though, and it does seem to be silver. 48 mm wide.
I thought this was simply a charming piece. It is an award medal for the North Short Horticultural Society, in Manchester, Mass. "AWARDED TO / Mrs Philip Dexter / Nov. 10th, 1903. / for / Best Display / of / Chrysanthemums - 20 Pots". It has a plain edge, 37.8 mm, and entirely engraved on both sides. I "assume" that it was produced from a planed-down silver dollar, but there's no way to tell at this point.
Julian SC-15, the large-size (49 mm) US Mint medal for the Buffalo Public Schools. This is a fairly common piece, with thousands produced over a span of many decades. I paid more for this one than the "going rate" for these pieces, but it's also a lot more attractive than usual. Many of these have been cleaned. Unfortunately, the same can be said for a lot of medals.
This is an excellent example of a sort-of mistake purchase. I paid a lot of money for this one because the dealer knew what he had and knew that he'd never seen another example. Julian reports 180 struck, but some medals seem to have disappeared entirely, and I know of several with even larger mintages that are basically unheard of today. I also had never seen this medal before, and neither did I have any record for any auction appearance. So I paid up. Then as soon as I got on the computer at home, I found two other sale records that I had previously missed, and I've found a third since then. Oh, well. At least now I know what to look for. (If anyone else happens to find one of these, I'd be interested in hearing about it.) 21.6 x 28.7 mm.
This ANA show also featured a sealed bid auction for the first part of a truly historic collection of So-Called Dollars, including many unique pieces and many plate coins from both the first and second editions of the So-Called Dollars book. On top of that, it was very well advertised. I definitely took the time to look at the lots because some of them I might never see again. I also put in some bids even though I expected VERY high prices and I assumed to be shut out entirely. To my surprise, I did win one lot, and in fact I won the single lot from the auction that I most wanted to win.
This is HK-18, produced for the Centennial Celebration of the Battle of Lexington in 1875. The auction featured specimens in silver, bronze, and white metal. The white metal version is the most common of the three -- but only if you count holed specimens. This UNHOLED white metal specimen is far rarer than even the silver version, and it sold for only a fraction of the price of the silver. I'm a happy camper. (This is also a cataloged as a US Mint medal, Julian CM-24, although the white medal version was struck outside the mint.)
Besides the advertised auction, there was also a second fantastic collection of So-Called Dollars being exhibited at the other end of the show. In many ways, the other collection was even more impressive than the one being auctioned. The prices, however, were rather high, and it was totally unadvertised. I don't know if any pieces were sold at all from that collection.
I haven't been to an ANA show in 28 years, since the last time it was in Boston. I didn't quite know what to expect from this one, except "bigger than I'm used to". In the end I spent two days at the pre-shows, four days at the ANA proper, and I still need to go back before the end of the month and see the Mass. Historial Society exhibit at their headquarters.
It was great meeting a lot of folks that I only knew previously from the boards here and elsewhere online.
I can't imagine what it would take to man a table for five days by yourself, as many dealers did. I've said it before and I'll keep saying it: I have nothing but respect for the folks who expect to make living doing this.
From a personal perspective, the show was everything I hoped for. I spent the first two days just talking to the folks I knew I "had to" talk to, and not even all of them at that. It took me another two days to see the rest of the tables. In general, I seem to spend fifteen minutes to a half hour at a table that has stuff that I want to look through, and the day goes pretty quickly when you start adding those up. I didn't get to see the exhibits until the very last day, when I (correctly) figured that the dealers would start disappearing before the scheduled exhibit removal time.
I had no problems selling stuff I wanted to sell. In fact, I started the year with an idea that I would "save up" all sorts of neat stuff because I'd have no problems selling whatever I wanted to sell at the ANA. Around June I found the hole in that cunning plan when I realized that I had saved up literally more stuff than I could carry. Oops! So in the end I only brought some of the stuff that I'd saved to sell, adding more pieces on later days as I freed up room (and weight) via earlier sales.
I'll never stop being amazed at how different people like different things. I can show the same box o' stuff to three (or ten) different people, and each of them will stop and pull out different items. This isn't even a matter of pricing, where different people think that an item is worth more or less. I'm not surprised at different opinions of value. I'm simply talking about whether people stop to look at an item at all.
Even after six days I have a couple of pieces left that I thought "for sure" would have been snapped up immediately. For the most part, the pieces that didn't sell were ones that are outside my main interests. Every so often I get seduced into buying something I wouldn't normally buy, simply because the price is right. I've got to remember that I like buying more than I like selling. I had a very rare (but unpopular) colonial coin, and several scarce European tokens that I probably could have sold with the right effort... but it always came down to what I enjoy doing. I enjoy sittind down at a dealer's table and looking through lots of stuff that interests me. I don't enjoy trying to make a sale to someone who has a case full of things that I don't care to look at while he is looking at mine. Personal preference. I'd simply be better off if I remembered my own preference more often.
The best remaining pieces I suppose will now go to auction, which should be fine anyway.I also saw a couple of pieces for sale in dealers' cases that I'm pretty sure I owned several years ago. I always get a grin from that.
Buying was much more of a mixed bag for me than selling. There were many seriously drool-worthy pieces at the show... but many of the best were explicity not for sale, and many of the rest were priced "optimistically". I've got pretty good records for the rarity and auction prices for the pieces I care about, and I'm not in a hurry. I'd rather buy one or two pieces that I are truly rare, and not get sidetracked on other pieces that are plenty neat but that will show up again in another few months or few years. In fact, the only _really_ neat piece I found was at practically the last table I stopped at, well after lunch on Saturday. That was a super-rare US Mint medal in gold, and in great condition to boot. Unfortunately, it also wasn't for sale. :-( Now I have to see if it shows up at auction somewhere so I can bid on it that way.
In all, I bought less than 1/3 as much as I sold. That includes a half-dozen pieces that I bought specifically for other people (although not all of them know it yet), and two others that I sold at the show after buying them at the show (always nice, that). Obligatory newps pictures are at the bottom of this post.
In fact, my best purchase -- by far -- for the week wasn't at the show but on eBay, where I ended up winning something for less than 2% of my snipe bid. Now, that's not exactly a fair comparison because you never know when a score like that will turn up, but still.
It was VERY helpful to have publishers and supplies vendors that had copies of books actually available to look at and flip through. There were at least two books that I've known about for a while that turned into instant purchases once I could hold a copy outside of shrinkwrap and see what was in them. It's a little too bad that I couldn't buy the books right then, so I could give them instant feedback for doing a Good Thing. I didn't want to have to carry the books around the show for the rest of they day. I'll buy them online and get them shipped.
The collector exhibits were amazing. Shame on anyone who attended the ANA but skipped the exhibits. On the other hand, shame on the ANA for an exhibit scoring system that favors the technical aspects of the exhibit itself over the merits of the actual collection being displayed.
You want to win an award at an ANA show? Put one item in the center of a case, with lots and lots of descriptive text around it. Bonus points for also including an enlargment of the single item, although that's optional.
You want to spend thirty years building a jaw-dropping COLLECTION? Good for you, but don't expect recognition for putting it into an exhibit.
There was an amazing collection showing examples of every piece of paper money issued by a Massachusetts bank (less three pieces, I think) that got no award at all. If I was impressed -- and I don't even collect paper money -- it must really have been something to someone who cared about that sort of thing.
There was another exhibit showing all sorts of Massachusetts silver coins, including massively rare ones, high grade pieces, and many of the Red Book plate coins (along with lots of other provenance) that got no award. Again, not an area that I collect, and I was still in awe.
John Sallay displayed his world-best collection of school award medals, with really great writeups both by chronology and by theme, and over 200 really really really rare pieces (including many unique specimens) spread across 5-10 display case. That's an area that I actually do collect a bit, at least where it overlaps some areas such as US Mint medals, and I can appreciate the collection directly. It got only a second place award.
In contrast, the first prize award in the convention theme category showed a collection that wasn't technically difficult, wasn't complete, and only had a tenuous connection to the convention theme. What it did have was a display that looked great from a technical perspective. I have no problems saying that it was a museum quality display. The collection within the display was "fine", and maybe even "very nice", but really nothing spectacular.
There's got to be something wrong with a scoring system where the collection itself is only an afterthought.
Kudos to the ANA and everyone involved with putting on a great show!
NEWPS:
This is an award for the Philadelphia Dog Show Association. Or maybe it's a badge. It might even be a medal. I don't exactly know what it is, but it struck my fancy, and sometimes that's enough. I don't see any signature or edgemark. The non-round shape an enameling make it unlikely to be a US Mint product. The quality is pretty high, though, and it does seem to be silver. 48 mm wide.
I thought this was simply a charming piece. It is an award medal for the North Short Horticultural Society, in Manchester, Mass. "AWARDED TO / Mrs Philip Dexter / Nov. 10th, 1903. / for / Best Display / of / Chrysanthemums - 20 Pots". It has a plain edge, 37.8 mm, and entirely engraved on both sides. I "assume" that it was produced from a planed-down silver dollar, but there's no way to tell at this point.
Julian SC-15, the large-size (49 mm) US Mint medal for the Buffalo Public Schools. This is a fairly common piece, with thousands produced over a span of many decades. I paid more for this one than the "going rate" for these pieces, but it's also a lot more attractive than usual. Many of these have been cleaned. Unfortunately, the same can be said for a lot of medals.
This is an excellent example of a sort-of mistake purchase. I paid a lot of money for this one because the dealer knew what he had and knew that he'd never seen another example. Julian reports 180 struck, but some medals seem to have disappeared entirely, and I know of several with even larger mintages that are basically unheard of today. I also had never seen this medal before, and neither did I have any record for any auction appearance. So I paid up. Then as soon as I got on the computer at home, I found two other sale records that I had previously missed, and I've found a third since then. Oh, well. At least now I know what to look for. (If anyone else happens to find one of these, I'd be interested in hearing about it.) 21.6 x 28.7 mm.
This ANA show also featured a sealed bid auction for the first part of a truly historic collection of So-Called Dollars, including many unique pieces and many plate coins from both the first and second editions of the So-Called Dollars book. On top of that, it was very well advertised. I definitely took the time to look at the lots because some of them I might never see again. I also put in some bids even though I expected VERY high prices and I assumed to be shut out entirely. To my surprise, I did win one lot, and in fact I won the single lot from the auction that I most wanted to win.
This is HK-18, produced for the Centennial Celebration of the Battle of Lexington in 1875. The auction featured specimens in silver, bronze, and white metal. The white metal version is the most common of the three -- but only if you count holed specimens. This UNHOLED white metal specimen is far rarer than even the silver version, and it sold for only a fraction of the price of the silver. I'm a happy camper. (This is also a cataloged as a US Mint medal, Julian CM-24, although the white medal version was struck outside the mint.)
Besides the advertised auction, there was also a second fantastic collection of So-Called Dollars being exhibited at the other end of the show. In many ways, the other collection was even more impressive than the one being auctioned. The prices, however, were rather high, and it was totally unadvertised. I don't know if any pieces were sold at all from that collection.
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Comments
thank you for taking the time to write that!
thank you for taking the time to write that!
I'll second that!! Thanks indeed for a wonderful report!
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
AB
Nice newps!
Thanks for the great photo's also
I know what you are talking about with the exhibits. I had the same problem with my exhibit in US
But that happens and I still had fun and it was a great show.
Boston is a GREAT TOWN.
Carl
I will quibble about the exhibit scoring. The ANA has precise guidelines on how exhibits are scored and it should not be all about value. There certainly should be some weight given to the items exhibited - I'm not interested in an exhibit that displays a single Lincoln Memorial reverse no matter how voluminous the explanatory material is. But a great exhibit needs to be about more than rarity and/or value.
You do earn points for rarity, condition and completeness, but exhibitors often needlessly lose points in other categories.
The ANA scoring works like this:
Title and Scope - 5 points
Basic numismatic information - 15 points.
Special numismatic information - 15 points.
Creativity and Originality - 10 points.
Attractiveness - 10 points.
Balance - 10 points.
Completeness - 5 points.
Degree of difficulty: 10 points.
Condition - 10 points.
Rarity: 10 points.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
Your correct about the exhibit scoring.
But just think about a exhibitor can earn points with RARITY.
But also lose point or earn less points in other categories. That's what I'm talking about.
Just because a exhibit has a rare coin or bill in it. Does not make a winner.
It is whole exhibit.
<< <i>I will quibble about the exhibit scoring. The ANA has precise guidelines on how exhibits are scored and it should not be all about value. There certainly should be some weight given to the items exhibited - I'm not interested in an exhibit that displays a single Lincoln Memorial reverse no matter how voluminous the explanatory material is. But a great exhibit needs to be about more than rarity and/or value.
You do earn points for rarity, condition and completeness, but exhibitors often needlessly lose points in other categories.
The ANA scoring works like this:
Title and Scope - 5 points
Basic numismatic information - 15 points.
Special numismatic information - 15 points.
Creativity and Originality - 10 points.
Attractiveness - 10 points.
Balance - 10 points.
Completeness - 5 points.
Degree of difficulty: 10 points.
Condition - 10 points.
Rarity: 10 points. >>
To clarify, I do understand the points system in place for ANA exhibits, and I think that the judges applied that points system fairly. I can totally see how you get from that points system to the winning exhibits. I also think that the wrong exhibits won. Therefore, I'm saying that the points system is wrong.
Consider the exhibit of currency from all Massachusetts banks. The collection was awesome, but it had very little information besides, "This is all of them. Enjoy." So the exhibit probably lost nearly all of the points for basic and special numismatic information. The notes were laid out in a grid, in alphabetical order by town, so it probably lost all points for creativity and originality. There were three (?) notes missing out of 300 (?), so there goes a point for completeness. Some of the notes (most likely rare/unique ones) were ratty, so there go points for condition. Right off the bat, there go half the points.
In contrast, consider an exhibit that contained a single 1802 half dime. It had piles of information (which I mostly didn't read), so it probably got full credit in the two info categories. Plus, a display of one item is automatically balanced and complete.
The bottom line is that I don't care about an 1802 half dime. There are a bunch in the Heritage archives, and it looks like they show up every year or two. If I want to see one, all I have to do is wait a little bit. Congrats to the owner for getting it, but no big deal in the grand scheme of things. The Massachusetts currency collection IS a big deal, and if the current system couldn't recognize that, then the current system is broken.
FunWithMPL says, "Just because a exhibit has a rare coin or bill in it. Does not make a winner." I also agree with that. Having a rare coin in an exhibit simply means that you have money to spend. Good for you. I'm much more impressed if you have the interest and determination to build a collection. You could take John Sallay's exhibit of school medals and remove every single item valued at more than $200-$300 and STILL have a totally mindblowing exhibit. In his case, the rare pieces made the exhibit super-duper cool, but they were a bonus. The collection stands on its own, value aside. Sure, he could have lost my attention by putting everything in a heap with a handwritten note that said "Stuff here. Look." But he didn't. The display was visually fine, just as it was for the Massachusetts currency exhibit, and the collection was awesome, just as it was for the Massachusetts currency exhibit.
My thoughts. Personal preference.
jonathan
In the example of the Mass banknotes, I would have enjoyed seeing it very much, but clearly the exhibitor was not seriously contending for awards or he/she wouldn't have thrown away so many points. I think some exhibitors just like to display their items but non-competitively. That's fine too.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
As far as the separate collections and the scoring, I didn't know how the ribbons were awarded, but a lot of heart went into many of the exhibits. Now having read your post, I agree that the ANA might want to review their scoring standards. Some of the collections were terrific. I most especially enjoyed the love token given to the son of a president at the son's birth. The collector needed to do some research to determine this tokens intent and I found that very interesting also.
John
Evergreen, Colorado
cadmanco
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
The Penny Lady®