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How to lose money by saving money

CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,127 ✭✭✭✭✭
in Precious Metals
Had a call today from a guy out west who had 80 ounces of pure gold shot. He had wanted gold bars, but did not want to pay any premium over spot, so he bot the shot at spot and thot he would make his own bars.

Eventually he was made aware of the fact that home made bars are very hard to sell, so he tried to sell the shot back to the place he bought it from at spot. They offered him 94%. He thought that was outrageous, so somehow or other he kept calling around until he reached me in Chicago. I referred him to somebody I knew in his state, who of course did not know for a fact that the gold was pure and offered him 90% after re-refining.

I guess he will go back to place he got it from, having lost close to $6,000 with nothing to show for it because he was too cheap to pay a reasonable premium in the first place.

TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.

Comments

  • zrlevinzrlevin Posts: 734 ✭✭✭
    This is why it is important to buy metals from known manufacturers!

    Thanks for the story.
    Zach
  • gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231 ✭
    Midwest Refiners will pay 98% I believe. You might refer him to them Tom.
  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,941 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ouch. Shot appears to be a no-no unless you're manufacturing something with it.

    There's clearly a spectrum for metals.

    Not to derail The Capt'n, but thoughts on a silver spectrum?

    Worst to first, off the top of my head:

    Computer/components
    shot
    40% (I HATE 40%. HATE HATE HATE)
    Foreign silver coinage
    .925 silverware/tablewear
    .925 art bars
    .999 rounds
    1 oz bars
    100 oz bars
    10 oz bars
    90%

    Add or change anything? Did I forget anything common?
    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231 ✭


    << <i>Ouch. Shot appears to be a no-no unless you're manufacturing something with it.

    There's clearly a spectrum for metals.

    Not to derail The Capt'n, but thoughts on a silver spectrum?

    Worst to first, off the top of my head:

    Computer/components
    shot
    40% (I HATE 40%. HATE HATE HATE)
    Foreign silver coinage
    .925 silverware/tablewear
    .925 art bars
    .999 rounds
    1 oz bars
    100 oz bars
    10 oz bars
    90%

    Add or change anything? Did I forget anything common? >>




    I would assume that .999 bars and rounds would be at the top of this spectrum so long as they were from well known refiners. If I owned a refinery, and was buying in metal, I seriously doubt that I would offer MORE on U.S. 90% than I would on .999. Although I completely understand your logic that the 90% is an ironclad guarantee of an "assay". However, have you EVER doubted the stated weight or fineness on a JM 1oz silver bar?
  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,941 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yep to the top tier. I figured it would be too messy to include 2nd and 3rd tier stuff. I'm not even sure where it would go on the spectrum.

    As for 90% being the top: I'm just a die-hard 90% fan. It's the ultimate SHTF $$. Top spot. Gotta go with my gut.
    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • gsa1fangsa1fan Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭
    Driving across town to save .50 cents on a gallon of milk.

    You save 50 cents but waste 2 to 3 gallons of gas at $2.75 a gallon to save that 50 cents.

    I think the Captains point parallels mine.
    Avid collector of GSA's.
  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 7,007 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Ouch. Shot appears to be a no-no unless you're manufacturing something with it.

    There's clearly a spectrum for metals.

    Not to derail The Capt'n, but thoughts on a silver spectrum?

    Worst to first, off the top of my head:

    Computer/components
    shot
    40% (I HATE 40%. HATE HATE HATE)
    Foreign silver coinage
    .925 silverware/tablewear
    .925 art bars
    .999 rounds
    1 oz bars
    100 oz bars
    10 oz bars
    90%

    Add or change anything? Did I forget anything common? >>


    YES!! How could you leave out the ABSOLUTE BEST EVER way to own silver?

    War nickels. image

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,119 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yeah...like driving 10 miles to save 5 cents per gallon in gas on a 15 gal fill up.
    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231 ✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Ouch. Shot appears to be a no-no unless you're manufacturing something with it.

    There's clearly a spectrum for metals.

    Not to derail The Capt'n, but thoughts on a silver spectrum?

    Worst to first, off the top of my head:

    Computer/components
    shot
    40% (I HATE 40%. HATE HATE HATE)
    Foreign silver coinage
    .925 silverware/tablewear
    .925 art bars
    .999 rounds
    1 oz bars
    100 oz bars
    10 oz bars
    90%

    Add or change anything? Did I forget anything common? >>


    YES!! How could you leave out the ABSOLUTE BEST EVER way to own silver?

    War nickels. image >>




    If he hates 40%, just imagine how Weiss feels about 35%.
  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,941 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ahh yes. War nickels. They at least have some history to them.

    I'd put them ahead of 40%, but just.
    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • BearBear Posts: 18,953 ✭✭✭
    War nickels are hard to process. The best will always be 90% silver American coinage.

    That was when our money, was real money, I really miss silver coins.
    There once was a place called
    Camelotimage
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,127 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Ouch. Shot appears to be a no-no unless you're manufacturing something with it.

    There's clearly a spectrum for metals.

    Not to derail The Capt'n, but thoughts on a silver spectrum?

    Worst to first, off the top of my head:

    Computer/components
    shot
    40% (I HATE 40%. HATE HATE HATE)
    Foreign silver coinage
    .925 silverware/tablewear
    .925 art bars
    .999 rounds
    1 oz bars
    100 oz bars
    10 oz bars
    90%

    Add or change anything? Did I forget anything common? >>




    I would assume that .999 bars and rounds would be at the top of this spectrum so long as they were from well known refiners. If I owned a refinery, and was buying in metal, I seriously doubt that I would offer MORE on U.S. 90% than I would on .999. Although I completely understand your logic that the 90% is an ironclad guarantee of an "assay". However, have you EVER doubted the stated weight or fineness on a JM 1oz silver bar? >>



    The advantage of 90% U.S. coin is that if, god forbid, silver should fall below $1.35 an ounce, you can spend it.

    TD
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 7,007 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Where do Silver Eagles fit into the spectrum? Somewhere in the vicinity of .999 rounds?

    << The advantage of 90% U.S. coin is that if, god forbid, silver should fall below $1.35 an ounce, you can spend it. >>

    The advantage of 40% U.S. coin is that if, god forbid, silver should fall below $3.38 an ounce, you can spend it.

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • mrearlygoldmrearlygold Posts: 17,858 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    I guess he will go back to place he got it from, having lost close to $6,000 with nothing to show for it because he was too cheap to pay a reasonable premium in the first place.

    TD >>




    image

    Coin's for sale/trade.


    Tom Pilitowski
    US Rare Coin Investments
    800-624-1870

  • 30AnvZ2830AnvZ28 Posts: 1,619
    If and when silver EVER falls to $1.35 an ounce, or even $3.38 an ounce... Ill buy every damn piece of it you own.
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,825 ✭✭✭✭✭
    999 rounds
    1 oz bars
    100 oz bars
    10 oz bars
    90%

    Add or change anything? Did I forget anything common?

    I would add a couple nuances: Foreign .999 coinage, and ASEs (which thesedays must be considered to be as fungible as 90%).
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,122 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Ouch. Shot appears to be a no-no unless you're manufacturing something with it.

    There's clearly a spectrum for metals.

    Not to derail The Capt'n, but thoughts on a silver spectrum?

    Worst to first, off the top of my head:

    Computer/components
    shot
    40% (I HATE 40%. HATE HATE HATE)
    Foreign silver coinage
    .925 silverware/tablewear
    .925 art bars
    .999 rounds
    1 oz bars
    100 oz bars
    10 oz bars
    90%

    Add or change anything? Did I forget anything common? >>




    I would move the 900 junk silver below the 999 rounds. Junk silver coins is low purity (900 vs 999) and the weight on well circulated coins is unknown unless you have a scale handy to weigh it. It's called junk silver for a reason.
    I would add ASE's to the top of the list.
    If the 10 oz bars are ahead of the 100 oz bars then the 1 oz bars should be ahead of the 10 oz bars.



    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • dontippetdontippet Posts: 2,606 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Ouch. Shot appears to be a no-no unless you're manufacturing something with it.

    There's clearly a spectrum for metals.

    Not to derail The Capt'n, but thoughts on a silver spectrum?

    Worst to first, off the top of my head:

    Computer/components
    shot
    40% (I HATE 40%. HATE HATE HATE)
    Foreign silver coinage
    .925 silverware/tablewear
    .925 art bars
    .999 rounds
    1 oz bars
    100 oz bars
    10 oz bars
    90%

    Add or change anything? Did I forget anything common? >>




    I would move the 900 junk silver below the 999 rounds. Junk silver coins is low purity (900 vs 999) and the weight on well circulated coins is unknown unless you have a scale handy to weigh it. It's called junk silver for a reason.
    I would add ASE's to the top of the list.
    If the 10 oz bars are ahead of the 100 oz bars then the 1 oz bars should be ahead of the 10 oz bars. >>



    I have to agree with everything you said. I prefer, 90% junk silver, but I don't think it is the best form due to the need to refine it. Although junk silver may be the safest play if one is worried about counterfeit or forgeries. I can't imagine anyone try to fake a Kennedy half in order to make a few bucks. On the other hand, as mentioned in many threads, 100 ounce bars would be more tempting to alter.
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  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,825 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I guess he will go back to place he got it from, having lost close to $6,000 with nothing to show for it because he was too cheap to pay a reasonable premium in the first place.

    Captn, you make "saving money" sound so easy!image
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • SmittysSmittys Posts: 9,876 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Midwest Refiners will pay 98% I believe. You might refer him to them Tom. >>



    Midwest pays 95%
    Plus with my dealing with them they seem to come up short.

    Republic metals Corp pays 98.5 %
    And both times I've sent fairly large scrap to them I've been more than pleased.
    Plus they pay shipping there. ( 5 ounces pure or more )
    https://www.ebay.com/str/christyscoins
  • InYHWHWeTrustInYHWHWeTrust Posts: 1,448 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Had a call today from a guy out west who had 80 ounces of pure gold shot. He had wanted gold bars, but did not want to pay any premium over spot, so he bot the shot at spot and thot he would make his own bars.

    Eventually he was made aware of the fact that home made bars are very hard to sell, so he tried to sell the shot back to the place he bought it from at spot. They offered him 94%. He thought that was outrageous, so somehow or other he kept calling around until he reached me in Chicago. I referred him to somebody I knew in his state, who of course did not know for a fact that the gold was pure and offered him 90% after re-refining.

    I guess he will go back to place he got it from, having lost close to $6,000 with nothing to show for it because he was too cheap to pay a reasonable premium in the first place.

    TD >>



    Or, he could just be patient & wait until September to sell when POG goes up X% to cover the dealer's spread, and take it as a lesson learned.
    Do your best to avoid circular arguments, as it will help you reason better, because better reasoning is often a result of avoiding circular arguments.
  • BBNBBN Posts: 3,761 ✭✭✭
    Good grief, If I'm dropping that much coin on gold I'm at least going to get something labeled as a govt' bullion, numismatic piece or a bar. Wow. Could've been gold painted aquarium gravel for all he knew.

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