Question about APMEX and credit cards
wpr101
Posts: 59
Why do they charge a huge premium for credit card purchases? Are there better sites for purchasing that don't have these fees?
0
Comments
Likewise, my biggest purchase from Gainesville was a wire transfer. That wasn't much fun, either.
I suspect they charge outrageous credit card fees to recoup their costs and to push you to deal in cash (or MO, or transfers). Maybe they try to discourage cancellations and disputes when people "buy" on what amounts to margin and then try to welsh when prices drop?
But when you're used to eBay and/or the PCGS BST forums, or better still, slapping down dollah' bills at the B&M and walking out the door with your booty that instant, sending MOs to Texas and then waiting for them to receive and acknowledge the funds and THEN ship the goods to you feels like you're in the bronze age.
Apmex at least shipped Priority. Gainesville shipped registered and it took 8, maybe 10 years to arrive
--Severian the Lame
So, if Apmex sells a gold coin for $1300, and has a really good deal with its credit card processing company and pays them ONLY 2%, that is $26 they have to give the credit card people. So, it either has to raise its gross price by $26, which would cause the buyers to scream, or charge a credit card fee, which has caused you to scream.
Or, they could just lose money on each transaction and go out of business.
If yours doesn't, both Tulving and Apmex reimburse a portion of your bank wire fee.
<< <i>Uh, you people do understand, do you not, that when a company accepts a credit card payment that company has to pay a percentage to the credit card company? And that the percentage is on the entire charge, not just the merchant's profit?
>>
No I do, but the most business don't charge that. At 7-11 for example the cashier is more bothered that you want to spend cash than use your credit card.
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<< <i>Uh, you people do understand, do you not, that when a company accepts a credit card payment that company has to pay a percentage to the credit card company? And that the percentage is on the entire charge, not just the merchant's profit?
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No I do, but the most business don't charge that. At 7-11 for example the cashier is more bothered that you want to spend cash than use your credit card. >>
The markup at 7-11 and at most stores is so high that they can afford to spend another 2% on your transaction if you desire to use a credit card. APMEX is obviously working on a much smaller margin to stay competitive. The way I look at is that if you pay with check, cash, etc... then you receive a discount. If they did not have extra fees for credit card purchases, then they would be forced to raise their prices by 2-3% across the board.
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<< <i>Uh, you people do understand, do you not, that when a company accepts a credit card payment that company has to pay a percentage to the credit card company? And that the percentage is on the entire charge, not just the merchant's profit?
>>
No I do, but the most business don't charge that. At 7-11 for example the cashier is more bothered that you want to spend cash than use your credit card. >>
Credit card fees are figured into retail prices that get passed on to all customers, even those paying cash. Bullion dealers add the markup only to those that deserve it - credit card buyers.
Bank of America has pretty cheap do it yourself on-line wire transfers.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>APMEX takes personal checks, that is what I do. Takes a little longer to ship but so worth the savings. I wish I could use my CC without the fees though because I would have a bunch of miles to go along with my silver and gold >>
Same here...I don't need the stuff that I buy from APMEX immediately and a 5-7 business day hold on checks does not bother me.
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<< <i>
<< <i>Uh, you people do understand, do you not, that when a company accepts a credit card payment that company has to pay a percentage to the credit card company? And that the percentage is on the entire charge, not just the merchant's profit?
>>
No I do, but the most business don't charge that. At 7-11 for example the cashier is more bothered that you want to spend cash than use your credit card. >>
The markup at 7-11 and at most stores is so high that they can afford to spend another 2% on your transaction if you desire to use a credit card. APMEX is obviously working on a much smaller margin to stay competitive. The way I look at is that if you pay with check, cash, etc... then you receive a discount. If they did not have extra fees for credit card purchases, then they would be forced to raise their prices by 2-3% across the board. >>
Bingo!
TD
<< <i>Uh, you people do understand, do you not, that when a company accepts a credit card payment that company has to pay a percentage to the credit card company? >>
That's what I meant by recoup their costs.
--Severian the Lame
<< <i>My last purchase from Apmex was also my first (10 oz Pd bar). I have to say that getting ~$4250 in money orders was an unpleasant task, but no way in heck was I paying their credit card fees.
Likewise, my biggest purchase from Gainesville was a wire transfer. That wasn't much fun, either.
I suspect they charge outrageous credit card fees to recoup their costs and to push you to deal in cash (or MO, or transfers). Maybe they try to discourage cancellations and disputes when people "buy" on what amounts to margin and then try to welsh when prices drop?
But when you're used to eBay and/or the PCGS BST forums, or better still, slapping down dollah' bills at the B&M and walking out the door with your booty that instant, sending MOs to Texas and then waiting for them to receive and acknowledge the funds and THEN ship the goods to you feels like you're in the bronze age.
Apmex at least shipped Priority. Gainesville shipped registered and it took 8, maybe 10 years to arrive
So, which is it? Are they charging an "outrageous credit card fee," or are they "recoup(ing) their costs"?????
What is their credit card fee? Is it in the 2-3% range that credit card companies typically charge merchants? If so, that would be recouping their costs, and not "outrageous" as you charge.
If it is significantly more than 2-3%, please cite the exact rate.
<< <i>Why do they charge a huge premium for credit card purchases? Are there better sites for purchasing that don't have these fees? >>
Please define "huge premium."
2%?
3%?
4%?
<< <i>Apmex recently quoted me 3% surcharge for using a credit card on a potential purchase of a bit over 3K. In other words, an extra hundred bucks, plus it depends on your credit card situation if you'll be zapped for any extra interest. But I wonder of they might have a sliding scale, with smaller purchases requiring a higher percentage than 3%, and higher purchases a lower percentage. I never asked about that. >>
It used to be that certain credit card companies charged merchants a higher percentage than others. I believe American Express is one of the highest percentage cards. 3% sounds about right. That is not highway robbery. Again, most retailers suck up that extra 3% since they are already marking up their product as much as 100%.
>
Successful transactions on the BST boards with rtimmer, coincoins, gerard, tincup, tjm965, MMR, mission16, dirtygoldman, AUandAG, deadmunny, thedutymon, leadoff4, Kid4HOF03, BRI2327, colebear, mcholke, rpcolettrane, rockdjrw, publius, quik, kalinefan, Allen, JackWESQ, CON40, Griffeyfan2430, blue227, Tiggs2012, ndleo, CDsNuts, ve3rules, doh, MurphDawg, tennessebanker, and gene1978.
Why does it seem that other businesses encourage credit card over cash though?
Look into www.providentmetals.com they have lower credit card fees than APMEX and their prices on bullion are among the best out there.
Providents just recently lowered their CC fee from 3% to 2.3%
<< <i>Look into www.providentmetals.com they have lower credit card fees than APMEX and their prices on bullion are among the best out there.
Providents just recently lowered their CC fee from 3% to 2.3% >>
Not to mention their shipping charges compared to Apmex.
<< <i>Yea you guys are right. Didn't think about how low their margins are.
Why does it seem that other businesses encourage credit card over cash though? >>
Thank you. If you are going to go dealer bashing, please get your facts straight.
As to why most retailers prefer credit cards, I suspect it is a security issue. Cash can get stolen by employees, or robbed on the way to the bank. Think about your typical mall Sears store, and what their gross sales are on a weekend. If it was all cash, you would have to pay an armored car to make the pickup.
TD
<< <i>Why does it seem that other businesses encourage credit card over cash though? >>
Because Mastercard, Visa, and AmEx do not allow them to charge a fee for taking a credit card.
A store can legally say "A gallon of gas costs $2.57; there is a 3% discount for paying cash." But it cannot say "A gallon of gas costs $2.50; there is a 3% surcharge for paying with a credit card."
Few stores actually provide a discount for paying cash -- why should they? People paying cash don't demand it, and it would cut into their profits. If the price is the same, most customers choose a credit card because it is a bit safer for the customer than carrying cash (and a bit more convenient for tracking finances).
Now if a store could show the cash price and add a surcharge for using the credit card, more and more people would pay with cash. This is especially true for smaller purchases, as stores pay about $.20 per purchase in addition to the percent, so for a $5 item, about 6% goes to the banks.
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Now if a store could show the cash price and add a surcharge for using the credit card, more and more people would pay with cash. This is especially true for smaller purchases, as stores pay about $.20 per purchase in addition to the percent, so for a $5 item, about 6% goes to the banks. >>
Are you sure? If that is the case, why are the fast food places accepting credit cards? I occasionally use my card for purchases under $2. Yesterday, I spent $1.07 on my credit card at McDonald's. I'm not saying you're wrong, but a 23% credit card fee seems a little high.
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Successful transactions on the BST boards with rtimmer, coincoins, gerard, tincup, tjm965, MMR, mission16, dirtygoldman, AUandAG, deadmunny, thedutymon, leadoff4, Kid4HOF03, BRI2327, colebear, mcholke, rpcolettrane, rockdjrw, publius, quik, kalinefan, Allen, JackWESQ, CON40, Griffeyfan2430, blue227, Tiggs2012, ndleo, CDsNuts, ve3rules, doh, MurphDawg, tennessebanker, and gene1978.
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<< <i>
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Now if a store could show the cash price and add a surcharge for using the credit card, more and more people would pay with cash. This is especially true for smaller purchases, as stores pay about $.20 per purchase in addition to the percent, so for a $5 item, about 6% goes to the banks. >>
Are you sure? If that is the case, why are the fast food places accepting credit cards? I occasionally use my card for purchases under $2. Yesterday, I spent $1.07 on my credit card at McDonald's. I'm not saying you're wrong, but a 23% credit card fee seems a little high. >>
It depends on the merchant. For most small businesses, it seems the best out there is about $.20 per transaction. McDonalds probably gets a better rate; the exact rate is probably confidential. the State of North Carolina seems to be paying just $.112 and $.161 per transaction (it's not clear if some of that could be avoided; just $.05 or $.10 goes directly to MC/Visa).
But I'm sure McDonalds would have preferred that you had paid cash on such a small purchase.
<< <i>You can get away with paying the fees by using your banks Online Bill pay option. Many banks have it and it works like a wire minus the fees on theirs and your end.
Look into www.providentmetals.com they have lower credit card fees than APMEX and their prices on bullion are among the best out there.
Providents just recently lowered their CC fee from 3% to 2.3% >>
What about their paypal fees? I saw they take paypal but didn't want to register to get a true 'shipped' price for an online order.
I prefer paying in cash for most transactions....I actually think paying with a CC actually slow down the line, they have to sign or put their pin, sometimes the card doesnt go thru or the little machine asks you 10 questions, ( do want money back , is this the correct amount , etc )
Groucho Marx
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So, which is it? Are they charging an "outrageous credit card fee," or are they "recoup(ing) their costs"?????
What is their credit card fee? Is it in the 2-3% range that credit card companies typically charge merchants? If so, that would be recouping their costs, and not "outrageous" as you charge.
If it is significantly more than 2-3%, please cite the exact rate.
They are recouping their costs, which amounts to a very large dollar fee. I used the term "outrageous" not in a specific sense. Maybe not inordinate, but still very hard to stomach = outrageous.
--Severian the Lame
<< <i>A friend of mine owns a gas station and when gas went to $4 + he told me he actually losing money everytime someone used a CC. >>
FWIW, that's not too related to CC fees. If his cost per gallon goes up, say, $1, and he increases his price less than $1 plus his related fees (in this case, raising the price $1.02-$1.03 or so), that's a business decision that is guaranteed to cause him to make less of a profit margin than before (or switch from a profit to a loss).
Doing this can make business sense (e.g. if there is a profit per gallon sold and sales increase enough, or by keeping customers loyal during temporary price changes). On the other hand, he is choosing to sell at a loss. Perhaps the vast majority of his customers pay cash, so it doesn't matter losing a bit to the CC purchasers. Or maybe he is afraid that people won't pay $4.089 a gallon but will pay $4.059 a gallon. But charging more than your product costs is a business decision.
A lot of gas station owners seem to think the same way, but it just doesn't make sense. The percent they pay is lower as purchases are higher (because of the per-transaction fees). Yes, if their cost for a gallon of gas goes up $1, and they raise their price $1, they will profit less than they did before. But the same thing happens if you sell computers and the manufacturer adds extra steel to the cases, charges $1 more, and your shipping costs go up $.03. It is more noticeable to business with very low profit margins, but the same principles apply.
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<< <i>You can get away with paying the fees by using your banks Online Bill pay option. Many banks have it and it works like a wire minus the fees on theirs and your end.
Look into www.providentmetals.com they have lower credit card fees than APMEX and their prices on bullion are among the best out there.
Providents just recently lowered their CC fee from 3% to 2.3% >>
What about their paypal fees? I saw they take paypal but didn't want to register to get a true 'shipped' price for an online order. >>
Their Paypal fee is 2.3% of the total so for example if your order was $150 you would pay $150 plus $8.95 shipping ($158.95 x 2.3%)= 162.61
Their shipping rates are as follows:
Order Sub-Total Shipping Rate
$0-$99.99 $5.95
$100-$499.99 $8.95
$500-$1,999.99 $11.95
$2,000-$4,999.99 $16.95
$5,000 + $ 24.95
Ive made some big sized orders with them and they always delivered quick plus their shipping and fees are the lowest ive seen anywhere. You may be able to get away from paying their credit card fee by using your banks online bill pay option which works like a bank wire minus the fees on theirs or your end. Many banks offer this for free
<< <i>Yea you guys are right. Didn't think about how low their margins are.
Why does it seem that other businesses encourage credit card over cash though? >>
Like other posters have said. Buy a toothbrush at Walgreens for $3, and you are getting about 25 cents worth of plastic. Buy a slurpee at 7-11 for $2 and you get about 2 cents worth of water and 15 cents worth of syrup. Buy a dozen roses from your local florist for $49.99 and you get about $5 worth of flowers. Buy $2000 worth of silver bullion from APMEX and you get about $1900 worth of actual silver. The bullion mark-up is so tiny that the 2-3% credit card whack isnt as easily absorbed as it is in almost all other retail products. Therefore APMEX needs to pass that cost along to you, while Walgreens, 7-11, and your florist can just absorb it with their high mark-ups.
<< <i>Premiums on silver/gold + shipping + credit card fees. How much on a 1 oz AGE purchase would that be? >>
You are looking at $59.75 over spot and shipping $24.95 and using a credit card would be about $39.00. $1365.00 would be about your total for a 2010 AGE.
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Thank you. If you are going to go dealer bashing, please get your facts straight.
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lol, I was not dealer bashing... don't know a ton about buying bullion online and was trying to figure out the extra fee which I haven't seen before buying other online items.