Chipper Jones is meeting with the Braves this afternoon...

Hallco

Speculation is that he is going to announce he will retire at the end of the season. A future Hall of Famer and fan favorite here in the Atlanta area. A press conference will follow.

larryallen73

Is he really a future HOFer? If he retires this year with those numbers I am not sure. I don't follow this stuff as closely as others though. I am sure the experts will chime in.

Goot

<< <i>Is he really a future HOFer? If he retires this year with those numbers I am not sure. I don't follow this stuff as closely as others though. I am sure the experts will chime in. >>




To me, yes, but I may be biased

1999 NL MVP
2008 NL Batting Title
Finished in top 10 in MVP voting 6 times
Good fielding Third Baseman
6 time all star
2 time Silver Slugger
1 World Series Ring

.306 BA
.406 OBP (45th on the all time list)
.536 SLG (40th on all time list)
.942 OPS (29th on all time list)
2,444 Hits
429 HR (39th on all time list)
1,467 RBI (53rd on all time list)


He did this while playing half his career injured. It's almost similar to Griffey's situation. Since 2003, he has only played in more than 140 games once, and that was last year. That can go against him because he will be considered injury prone, but to put up the numbers he did, while missing as many games as he did is amazing!

BTW, here's another thing that may help his cause. He played in the steroid era and yet his name has NEVER been linked once to steroids.

edmundfitzgerald

I'm not going to discuss statistics. I'm just going on my gut. Chipper is a hall of famer in my book, and
probably goes in the second time around.

mcadams

<< <i>Is he really a future HOFer? If he retires this year with those numbers I am not sure. I don't follow this stuff as closely as others though. I am sure the experts will chime in. >>



Are you serious? I can't tell if you're joking or not, so I'm going to assume you're just kidding. IMO, the question is whether he gets in first ballot or second ballot.

larryallen73

I am serious. I will acknowledge I don't follow baseball like I once did but his stats seem like Steve Garvey's but with a few more home runs (in an era when people hit more home runs) and a couple less kids out of wedlock!?

chris777

chris777

He probably won't get into the HOF. In today's steroid era, I think they expect HUGE numbers. I think he was one of the great players in the last 20 years, but nowadays, you don't have 2000 hits or 500 homers, it's hard. Unless you are beloved like Jeter, then maybe. Chipper reminds me of Mattingly. Great player, but the numbers aren't enough, but I think he can be looked up to as a fan favorite in Atlanta like Mattingly is in New York.

Goot

<< <i> Chipper reminds me of Mattingly. Great player, but the numbers aren't enough, but I think he can be looked up to as a fan favorite in Atlanta like Mattingly is in New York. >>




You don't even have to look outside of Atlanta. Dale. Murphy.

larryallen73

You don't even have to look outside of Atlanta. Dale. Murphy.

There you go. Even better example than Garvey. You are way too smart for your age Goot! I think Murphy and Garvey have a similar problem with their HOF credentials... they needed about two more strong years. Their peak years were great but not quite long enough.

mcadams

<< <i>I am serious. I will acknowledge I don't follow baseball like I once did but his stats seem like Steve Garvey's but with a few more home runs (in an era when people hit more home runs) and a couple less kids out of wedlock!? >>



Oh OK. I guess there is a chance that I think what I think just because I'm a Braves homer. But, I've thought for quite a while that Chipper was a HOF lock. I even thought he was a lock before he won his last batting title in '08 and that that was just more icing on the cake. I need to dig into the numbers a bit more, I guess. Maybe its a closer call than I realize.

mcadams

<< <i>He probably won't get into the HOF. In today's steroid era, I think they expect HUGE numbers. I think he was one of the great players in the last 20 years, but nowadays, you don't have 2000 hits or 500 homers, it's hard. Unless you are beloved like Jeter, then maybe. Chipper reminds me of Mattingly. Great player, but the numbers aren't enough, but I think he can be looked up to as a fan favorite in Atlanta like Mattingly is in New York. >>



There is a huge difference between Mattingly and Chipper. Chipper was the offensive anchor for a stretch run of very very successful teams. Mattingly was the offensive anchor of some very mediocre, very forgettable squads.

digicat

Chipper = 2217 games, 2444 hits, 429 HR, 1467 RBI, .306 ba/.406 obp/.536 slg

Garvey = 2332 games, 2599 hits, 272 HR, 1308 RBI, .294/.329/.446
Mattingly = 1785 games, 2153 hits, 222 HR, 1099 RBI, .307/.358/.471
Murphy = 2180 games, 2111 hits, 398 HR, 1266 RBI, .265/.346/.469

Goot

<< <i>Chipper = 2217 games, 2444 hits, 429 HR, 1467 RBI, .306 ba/.406 obp/.536 slg

Garvey = 2332 games, 2599 hits, 272 HR, 1308 RBI, .294/.329/.446
Mattingly = 1785 games, 2153 hits, 222 HR, 1099 RBI, .307/.358/.471
Murphy = 2180 games, 2111 hits, 398 HR, 1266 RBI, .265/.346/.469 >>






Out of the group Chipper obviously has the better stats. However, I am still a bit worried he may not get into the Hall. I believe he will, and want him to get in. However, I'm not so sure he gets in on a first or second ballot. If he gets in, I'm going to try my hardest to make it to Cooperstown!

TomGshotput

Garvey and Mattingly are great comparisons. If either of them knew how to draw a walk, they would have been first ballot Hall-of-Fame players too

Hallco

Wow...I didn't realize I was going to start a "is he or isn't he a hall of famer" with this thread. I do know that my kids have grown up watching and cheering for him, he has been very consistent in his playing throughout his career considering the ups and downs with injury...and if he does leave after this season, he will be leaving HUGE money on the table. To me, that means the guy cares more about the organization than he does his own wallet....and that goes a long way!

swartz1

other than his well documented off the field problems...

he is a lock for the Hall...

no question...

mcadams

<< <i>After spending a few minutes looking at Larry's stats, I have to say that the Hall of Fame might as well close its doors if Jones isn't inducted. He's not Ruth, Williams or Mays, but he is no where near a borderline case IMO.

Traditional Stats:

2217 Games (about 14 full seasons)

2,444 Hits
429 HR
1,480 Runs Scored
1,467 RBIs
1,383 BB
.306 BA
.406 OBP
.406 SLG

77 WAR (more than Pete Rose)
~370 Win Shares (that's a lot)


I'm just not sure what if any (even ridiculous) argument could be made for not inducting him. >>



Thanks for posting those stats, Baseball. As a Yankee fan, you might be interested to know that Chipper once said one of the highlights of his career was back in 08 when he was selected as the NL's starting 3B for the all-star game. He'd been in plenty before, but he said it was special because he wanted to play in the last all star game at Yankee stadium. Chipper is a baseball purist and he knows the history of the game. He's a throwback in the sense that he still respects and recognizes iconic things like Yankee stadium. He's a player, but also a fan.

grote15

HOF without question...he is head and shoulders above both Garvey and Mattingly, IMO..

larryallen73

I respect everybody's opinion here but I just have never thought of Chipper as a sure fire HOFer. I am sure you are all right.

DaBeef

Chipper is first ballet in my book.

DaBeef

And Chipper goes yard !

GDM67

Mattingly and Garvey, as first basemen, don't really figure into the question as comparisons. You have to look at Chipper in two important contexts: as a third baseman and as a switch hitter.

He's not going to have any serious trouble getting in. Traditionalists love him and most sabermetric types do, as well. Judged in the context of his times and among those that played his position, both against him and in history, he's there. It's not really close, either.

bigfische

<< <i>I am serious. I will acknowledge I don't follow baseball like I once did but his stats seem like Steve Garvey's but with a few more home runs (in an era when people hit more home runs) and a couple less kids out of wedlock!? >>


Go look at Garvey's OBP and SLG and compare them to Chipper's.

Mickey71

Based upon the numbers he should be a lock to get in. But wait.... he played entirely in an era when all are a little bit guilty by association. I think the writers could black ball almost all of them. Here's the problem for the voters---what are they going to do====no Bonds, McGwire,Clemens, Juan Gonzales, Sosa, Bagwell, Sheffield, Canseco, Piazza, Tejada, Pudge, Helton, Palmeiro, Garciaparra & a large host of others with the dark black cloud. The voters may take the easy way out of all of this and not vote any of them in. I think Griffey, Thomas,Thome and Chipper may be the only ones that are not considered linked to all of this except for a few pitchers. There is alot of stuff for the voters to digest. There is even a reliever/starter who threw 93 as a starter and had a serious injury....then threw like 98-99 as a reliever=====there is just alot of unknown. How about Edgar Martinez????? DH is a part of the game plain and simple. Here is my opinion on who should get in because I think they were good enough regardless of links to needles and creams-Bonds, Clemens, Griffey, Thome, Thomas and some pitchers and yes there will be more such as Jeter and others.

larryallen73

Go look at Garvey's OBP and SLG and compare them to Chipper's.

I saw them above. I think digi posted them. I was surprised in the disparity.

Mickey71

Just to add- Arod will have a hard time getting in because he is just a trainwreck as far as his character goes. The writers are going to have a lot of reasons to vote for and against when that time comes. That should be really interesting. If I was betting===He doesn't get in. You have to remember the voters look at color and everything and then you throw steroids in the mix.

CrimsonTider

I would love to see both Murphy and Chipper inducted.

bigfische

<< <i>Go look at Garvey's OBP and SLG and compare them to Chipper's.

I saw them above. I think digi posted them. I was surprised in the disparity. >>



Got a little ahead of myself and replied before reading the whole thread.

Mickey71

baseball,
I do not think that either will get in. I said that I think Bonds was a great enough player regardless of the roids. It sounds like Bonds started all the stuff around 1999. He already had monster stats by that time. You have to remember...he has a ton of steals and his on base % was always great. Not to mention all of the gold gloves were before the "stuff." Arod, on the other hand started this stuff much earlier in his career and taints more of his numbers. Almost all of his numbers are now questioned. Bonds won 3 MVP's early on.

I think the writers have the horrible task of basically voting for no one in the upcoming years except for Maddux, Glavine, Johnson and guys like that.

Just to add: I completely hate Bonds and believe he has disgraced the game.

Estil

Forget HOF, he'll most definitely get his shirt hung up at Turner Field, which many players consider to be an even greater honor than the HOF.

But as for the HOF, right now I put him on the bubble.

Tomi

So is it safe to say now that 500 homers, 3,000 hits and 300 wins don't mean anything anymore and we'll just start putting people in who could have put up those numbers like we have been doing for some time now?
I think longevity is part of making the HOF, and if you don't have the #'s because you retire early, then you don't get in (Garvey, Mattingly, Murphy, etc.).
Chipper is a hell of a player, but I cannot put him in if these are his final #'s. Definitely will get in because of how people feel about him.

Tomi

I would like to see him play long enough to attain HOF numbers. Rice and many others in my opinion should have never gotten in, but how about reaching HOF milestones before we open the doors. Then again, these milestones mentioned don't really mean anything anymore. Like I said, he will get in because people really like him and he has had a great career, but his career #'s in my opinion are not HOF worthy as they are now. I think that they have let way too many players in that have not deserved it. Longevity would be 18-20 years. If many others discussed in this thread played that long then they would be in on the 1st ballot.
JMO.

grote15

Longevity would be 18-20 years.

So I'm guessing that Jamie Moyer is first ballot then in your opinion then, LOL..

Jones has the HOF numbers already and would certainly NOT be at the lower levels of HOF worthiness once he gets in..

Tomi

Joe Dimaggio was one of the best player of his era. Yes, he belongs. The guy almost hit more home runs than he had strikeouts and was an all-star EVERY year he played. Let's not compare today to the 40's. As far as Jamie Moyer, he will never get in. That's not what I meant by longevity. I'm just saying that Chipper would be 1st ballot if he played a couple more years like Murphy and Mattingly and others who retired early. I just don't want to see great careers like his end prematurely. I understand if he's hurt, but I'd like to see a couple more years from him. I'm just used to bigger numbers going in. There are exeptions, like Koufax who was truly dominant, but I just don't see Chipper that way.
JMO

bigfische

You really need a new way to evaluate players. in your line of reasoning, a player with 2999 hits is garbage? 490 hrs is weak? 299 wins sucks? It doesn't work like that. They can be good before they reach milestones you know.

Tomi

I just think that today's players going in should have higher #'s than Chipper has as we speak. Like I said I would love to see a couple of more years from him. You are right , I probably have too high a standard for induction, but I'd like to see him at least get close to 3,000 hits and/ or 500 homers. I don't think someone needs to meet those to be inducted, I would just like to see him get closer. To me he is borderline as we speak, but I'm sure he'll get in.
JMO

grote15

While I am certainly not suggesting that Chipper Jones is better than Mike Schmidt, let's compare his stats to the man who is considered arguably the greatest 3B of all time. Schmidt played 17 full seasons, so both careers are similar in terms of longevity:

Runs

Schmidt: 1506
Jones: 1483

Hits:

Schmidt: 2235
Jones: 2450

Doubles

Schmidt: 408
Jones: 483

HRs

Schmidt: 548
Jones: 430

OBP

Schmidt: .380
Jones: .406

SLG%

Schmidt: .527
Jones: .537

OPS

Schmidt: .908
Jones .942

OPS+

Schmidt: 147
Jones: 142

I will say that Schmidt played during an era which favored pitchers compared to Jones who also had the benefit of playing his homes games in Atlanta, but in terms of sheer numbers, I think Jones does not get the credit he deserves.

mcadams

I don't think its ridiculous to compare Chipper to Schmidt.

TomGshotput

Chipper Jones has already achieved sufficient longevity. From 1996 to 2008 (13 full years) he averaged 144 games played, 65 extra base hits, .314 average, .967 OPS, 90 walks, and so on. Add on to that his pseudo-Rookie of the Year season, last year was still good and this year he is at least reaching base enough to be a solid contributor. That's 16 full seasons. I have an extremely hard time believing two more years at a mediocre level is what turns someone from a merely very good career to Hall-of-Fame level. Are the two years Wade Boggs spent with Tampa Bay really what convinced the voters that he deserved to be in the Hall-of-Fame?

Mattingly's peak lasted six years, 1984-89 and he had an OPS of .902 during those years

Murphy's peak only lasted about eight years, 1980-87. Had he hit better into his 30s, he would be in the Hall-of-Fame, even without playing additional seasons

A 13 year peak compared to six or eight years is a huge difference in longevity

Garvey had a long enough career, he just made far too many outs for it to have been at a high enough level

Also, remember Joe DiMaggio was a great player for three years when he just happened to be fighting a war rather than playing centerfield

GDM67

<< <i>I don't think its ridiculous to compare Chipper to Schmidt. >>

No, it isn't. Not at all. The numbers speak for themselves.

yawie99

<< <i>I respect everybody's opinion here but I just have never thought of Chipper as a sure fire HOFer. I am sure you are all right. >>



Me neither. I think it's the name. I'd probably vote Larry Jones in on his second attempt. Maybe even first. A grown man who goes by Chipper has to wait awhile.

mcadams

<< <i>

<< <i>I respect everybody's opinion here but I just have never thought of Chipper as a sure fire HOFer. I am sure you are all right. >>



Me neither. I think it's the name. I'd probably vote Larry Jones in on his second attempt. Maybe even first. A grown man who goes by Chipper has to wait awhile. >>



Did I just hear another "Larry" taunt? You know what happens every time someone says that word? Somewhere out in Queens, a baseball just sailed 425 feet over where the old right field fence used to be at Shea.