Do long series of expensive coins ruin collector interest?
RWB
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Both the First Spouse gold and National Parks 5–inch silver are long series of coins that have (or will have) fairly hefty price tags. Does this combination doom them to eventual obscurity and low prices?
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I stopped buying from the Mint in 2007 due to the proliferation of Dollar coins that never circulate, commems of questionable merit and design, the idiotic spouse coins, and now the National Parks quarters and hockey pucks with national "parks" of questionable merit due to the "one per state" requirement.
Before that, I had at least ordered the Mint and Proof Sets every year since 1976.
<< <i>Both the First Spouse gold and National Parks 5–inch silver are long series of coins that have (or will have) fairly hefty price tags. Does this combination doom them to eventual obscurity and low prices? >>
I doubt these 5 oz silver coins will have hefty price tags and most middle class collectors will be able to afford them unless the silver price skyrockets. Whether they choose to buy them or not is another issue.
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<< <i>Both the First Spouse gold and National Parks 5–inch silver are long series of coins that have (or will have) fairly hefty price tags. Does this combination doom them to eventual obscurity and low prices? >>
Not necessarily, because we can collect subsets without having to pay for complete series. The 4-coin "Liberty" subset of the First Spouse series is an example. There are also two subsets of proof Platinum Eagles that can be collected in 1/10 ounce form without breaking the bank.
We always have the option of picking and choosing individual coins from these long series to form our own topical collections. It's not necessary to have one of everything.
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Even in the "classics", I like to split things up...wish PCGS did on the registry....
Example: different types of early cents/half-cents. Split them by the head type instead of just clumping together.
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Similarly, I thought about collecting all of the 5 oz. park coins. Most of the first year coins seem interesting, but I'm guessing at some point I would also find myself buying coins just to keep the set going w/o really having an interest in the subject matter on the coin. Accordingly, I'm not going to build the set but I'll just buy the examples that I think look cool
So that means no Hot Springs 5 oz. coin with a fountain for me (is that really the best thing about that park???)... but I'll likely go for several others over the next 11 years.
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Now that I think of it, the National Parks Five Oz. may not be legal tender. Just what is their status? Are they strictly medals or do they have a face value?
As you can tell by my Complete Dime Set I like the long (1796 to present) series.
The coins you are asking about will always have their intrinsic metal content value and will all rarely grade below MS67 so once it's determined how many are available of each coin, it could make quite a difference in their "collectibility".
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<< <i>going back to seated halves, I would love to put a set together if it were 20-30 years, but the 50+ year run keeps me from it. >>
Yes, but the seated halves were made for a purpose--use in commerce. Right now, the Mint is making expensive coins that are just for collectors/investors. If they were expensive but didn't have a premium over face value, then they could be used as coins and fewer people would be priced out of the market. Suppose Silver Eagles had a face value of around $20. All of a sudden, you can spend them and not lose out.
<< <i>Yes. In the final analysis they are just more NCLT bullion issues that the general public never sees.
Now that I think of it, the National Parks Five Oz. may not be legal tender. Just what is their status? Are they strictly medals or do they have a face value? >>
My understanding is that they have a face value of 25 cents each.
That gives you downside protection if silver goes below 5 cents an ounce!
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``(B) Second round at discretion of secretary.--
``(i) Determination.--The Secretary may make a
determination before the end of the 9-year period
beginning when the first quarter dollar is issued
under this subsection to continue the period of
issuance until a second national site in each
State, the District of Columbia, and each
territory referred to in this subsection has been
honored with a design on a quarter dollar.
Im much more interested in completing the gold dollar series (half done), and that is made up of what some would call expensive...the lowest priced coin about $250 going up to the mid high four figure range.
What I couldnt do...is putter away buying low priced common coins which do really nothing for me on an individual basis. I dont see how people actually collect the whole run of Lincolns...
<< <i>
<< <i>Yes. In the final analysis they are just more NCLT bullion issues that the general public never sees.
Now that I think of it, the National Parks Five Oz. may not be legal tender. Just what is their status? Are they strictly medals or do they have a face value? >>
My understanding is that they have a face value of 25 cents each.
That gives you downside protection if silver goes below 5 cents an ounce!
Yup. I stay up at night worrying about that happening.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Both the First Spouse gold and National Parks 5–inch silver are long series of coins that have (or will have) fairly hefty price tags. Does this combination doom them to eventual obscurity and low prices? >>
Those things aren't real coins---they are lumps of stamped bullion and that's it. Think niche markets for these once they leave the mint.
The National Parks series may find a modest following due to overall theme and cost, but the 'complete' gold set will be unaffordable and undesirable as far as most collectors are concerned, IMO.
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<< <i>I actually think the opposite.....
Im much more interested in completing the gold dollar series (half done), and that is made up of what some would call expensive...the lowest priced coin about $250 going up to the mid high four figure range.
What I couldnt do...is putter away buying low priced common coins which do really nothing for me on an individual basis. I dont see how people actually collect the whole run of Lincolns... >>
<< <i>Do long series of expensive coins ruin collector interest? >>
Aren't there a lot of Lincoln collectors out there? Even for the MS condition, where early examples are really expensive?
I don't think it's the "long" or "expensive" that kills interest. It happens when collectors discover their newly minted coins are mundane and unlikely to appreciate much. Modern coins will never be scarce or even conditionally rare. Most, not all, are not even pretty, artistically. JMO, of course.
Lance.
No, I don't think that's the issue. Lots of people love to collect Lincolns, Jefferson Nickels, Kennedy Halves, Saint Gaudens, Morgan Dollars.........the issue as I see it - is that Congress and the Mint love to go off on tangents that tend to enhance their governmental fiefdoms without much regard for their audience/target market. An interesting series is one that is issued over time in a somewhat consistant way, and the variations occur through evolution and occasional mis-steps - not through a constant proliferation of official varieties.
A poorly-conceived series proliferates quickly and mutates quickly into multiple facets without regard either for how it's going to be financed or how it's going to be collected by it's audience. Please tell me how many different State Quarter variations there are in terms of metallic content, mintmark, and type of finish - that were intentionally created, all within the space of 10 years. If you got involved in that series, you hardly had time for much else besides cataloging. I suspect that this type of gratuitous proliferation of official varieties is what turns most classic collectors completely off against Moderns in general.
From a financial perspective - a quickly mutating series like the American Gold Eagles or the American Platinum Eagles by generating many variations in a compressed period of time had the effect of wiping out collector budgets to the extent that few people could afford the price of admission. Limiting the number of varieties would have kept collector enthusiasm much higher.
The Congress and the Mint both have nasty habits of calling for too many of everything in too short a timeframe in an effort to pump up sales figures. Neither Congress nor the Mint exercises much in the way of restraint, nor concern about the people to whom they want to sell coins. That has a way of diminishing the number of market participants over time, although there will always be a steady stream of newcomers whenever bullion prices are hot.
Both the First Spouse gold and National Parks 5–inch silver are long series of coins that have (or will have) fairly hefty price tags. Does this combination doom them to eventual obscurity and low prices?
No, but it does create another set that will compete with both older classic sets and newer sets yet to come. One might consider how many different series of Roman coins might be formed. After 40 or 50 emperors have had their day, most of the emperors (and their coinage) have become remote history such that they aren't widely followed by anyone but specialists in Roman history. The proliferation of series in Modern US Coinage seems to be moving us in that same general direction, albeit at a much faster pace.
The ONLY thing that saves both the First Spouse and the National Parks 5 ozers is their precious metal content. Otherwise, I would guess that they would both be as popular in the long run as the Modern Commemorative Clad Half Dollar Series. (Is there such a thing?)
I knew it would happen.
and artistic merit. It will also be about the surviving numbers and to a lesser extent about min-
tage.
To a large degree significance will depend on imponderables such as how long the circulation
versions remain in circulation. If inflation destroys to value of coinage and these end up mint
and proof set only there will be much less long term interest in the special issues. The coins
are not even designed yet. It's not even a safe bet at this time that large percentages of
low mintages won't be melted down for their silver.
In the present the high prices ruin interest but in the long run they can create interest since
mintages will probably be low.
I have made certain exceptions when proof coins are close in design and size to a circulation strike, but that is not the case here.
<< <i>Not of interest to me. I don't collect NCLT as a rule.
I have made certain exceptions when proof coins are close in design and size to a circulation strike, but that is not the case here. >>
I tend to feel the same way.
Who cares about business strike art work on proofs?
Actually, I find that very interesting when it is on a 1968 S quarter proof reverse. They are not easy to find. THe two proof versions are much more common.
I have a nice 1884 CC Morgan in PC 6 and I have no interest in getting another Morgan Dollar. Similarly, I have a nice No Motto Seated $ in PC 3 and a With Motto Seated $ in PC 4, and I'm done with the series. If I ever find a nice Heraldic and Small Eagle Bust $, I'll also be done with the series.
There are some series where I'll pick up add'l coins if I can get them nice for the grade at the right price. Liberty Nickels and SLQs are examples.
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I've been a collector of gold commemoratives going back to when my grandfather introduced them to me when I was a kid in the '70s. I became a very enthusiastic collector when the mint revived the program for the L.A. Olympics and the reconditioning of the Statue of Liberty in the 80s. When gold was priced from $300 to $600 an oz., it was easy to add one offering a year. Some years they'd do nothing, other years two issues. But with the First Spouse series, they went overboard. Now with Gold at $1200+ and half oz. issues a year, and a series that isn't more than mildly interesting, the mint just seems to be spewing out high priced "stuff". Many buying direct are merely flipping them for the quick profit. The number of people out there actually striving to build a complete set has to be miniscule.
PCGS grouping the First Spouses with the regular issue modern gold commemoratives has provided some serious disincentive for me to continue to collect the gold commemorative series, and now am considering selling what I have.