Is “numeric grading” destructive to the hobby?

RWB

Is “numeric grading” destructive to the hobby?

The adoption of numeric grading – the association of a number from the Sheldon large cent world to other coin types – was initially promoted by ANA governor Virgil H. Since then, this system has expanded and become accepted by the hobby, even though it has a great many faults and fallacies.

Some of the difficulties include:
A. Non-linear scale – each “point” is not equal to another
B. Arbitrary point spreads within descriptive grades
C. Absence of accepted definition of each numeric moniker
D. Numeric bias where accuracy is implied but actually absent
E. Creation of phantom “grades” that did not previously exist (AU-53 or AU-55 for example)
F. Lack of repeatability
G. Application of discrete quantities to a continuum

As active modern day coin collectors what do you think?

291fifth

It may be destructive to the hobby but is very profitable to the business.

MrEureka

RWB - While there are flaws in the system, it's not clear to me that the system is destructive. Care to expound on that?

coinguy1

I'm not sure if it's destructive or not. But either way, I don't see any practical alternatives that would be better.

mrpotatoheadd

The fact that numbers are involved is not necessarily an indictment of the system. Example:

F. Lack of repeatability

Does anybody really think that grading would be more easily repeatable if a numerical system was not used? Any grading system can be "destructive" if applied based on erroneous assumptions regarding the way the system is intended to operate.

Bear

Much as been said about Democracy. "A poor system......except for all the others."

In truth, numerical TPG has made the hobby more friendly to the collector. While it

is not perfect it is much better then what has gone before.

BillJones

I can’t see where the Sheldon number grading system is destructive. I’ve been in this hobby long enough (over 50 years) to know about the abuses that took place when no numbers were used and only words were provided to grade coins. If you read some of the flowery, imprecise garbage that used to be used to describe grades, you would be most pleased with the current numeric system despite its faults.

Baley

Not sure what is meant by "the hobby"

any more than I understand references to "the economy" or "the environment" as if it was one uniform thing.

so, in answer, IMO numeric grading is a tool that is variously well-used or much abused, and everyting in between, in different situations.

as are a number of measurements of money supply, inflation, pollution, or temperature..

depending on who you ask and what they want you to think

LindeDad

Are we only going to collect face value coins? Don't think so.

TwoSides2aCoin

I don't think numeric grading hurts the hobby as much as those little lies that squeeze people out of their wealth in other cracks and crevices in the game. Unlike Bill Jones, I ran from the hobby for 30 years because of the deceit I discovered early, otherwise I'd have almost 50 yrs experience.

IGWT

Are you asking about "numeric grading" or about "third-party grading"?

SaorAlba

Only if you let it be. Frankly I could care less what someone else's opinion is of a coin. I really only buy stuff usually - and rarely ever sell. I am a collector, I am not an investor and I have never bought coins for investment purposes. In fact I have lost money on some coins and made money on others. But more importantly I have a wealth of knowledge of history and appreciation for art from having endeavoured in my childhood to pursue this hobby.

Bear

To survive and thrive one must do the following:

1. Learn how to spot coins that are PQ for the grade

2. Better yet, learn how to grade ,to a reasonable degree,
on the coin series you collect.

3. Develop a trusted circle of dealers that are fair, reasonable
honorable and with whom you can develop a good relationship

4. Never buy expensive coins at auction without having
professional dealer you trust check it out for you.

5.If you frequent our excellent B/S/T, learn who the long term honorable
collectors are. These fine folks will always do what ever it takes to make you happy.

6. On E-Bay, I tend to return frequently, to dealers who deliver what they promise
time after time.These are the people that give good, pleasant service and stand behind
every coin that they sell.

7. Always question why valuable coins are not in a reputable slab.

8. If you have a question about a coin, never be afraid to ask it of the Forum Members. Post a
picture and ask your question. While it is difficult to grade a coin from a picture, our astute
members can often pick out clues to a damaged or doctored coin. They also have a pretty good
idea as to coin values in most grades.

ricko

I collect coins, not numbers. Cheers, RickO

Bear

Long ago, I knew a few people who ran numbers.

TwoSides2aCoin

After I crunch the numbers, I submit coins for a grade. Two reasons: Business & pleasure, and that's all because of a hobby where I don't have to worry about OSHA, .... yet

RYK

<< <i>It may be destructive to the hobby but is very profitable to the business. >>



You took the words right out of my mouth.

coinkat

Not really- there are bigger problems

TwoSides2aCoin

What is most destructive isn't the numerical gradek but the lack of interest in collecting coin even at WalMart prices.

PerryHall

RWB---What kind of grading standard do you propose?

RWB

I'm just asking the question for now....Lots of interesting responses here and on NGC's board.

doh

*sigh*....no.

leothelyon

I think most people lose it when they discover another coin in same grade holder that looks 10x worse than the coin they just forked $40 over to get certified. That basically did it for me anyways and the fact that the strike of a coin was not even factored into the grade whatsoever. I didn't need someone telling me which coins were shinier or prettier than the others.


Leo

But rejoining the certification road may change once I get a better understanding of the stickers and pluses, depended upon the criterias and how they are used to boost the collector base.