If the STHF would you

TexasNationals

As you grab your gold and, yeah I've seen them, but you need a tank of gas would you give an oz of gold for 20 gallons of petrol?? Alot of you grab and go or survivalist wannabee's need to buy some common sense Rangar Benson survial books on city and country survival (people that have been there and done tat in many countries). In a few months, and I am not promoting it as we are already booked for over 1 year, 2 other investors bought a town and we teach wildnerness surival and urban survival. I read alot of these post and laugh.. Has anyone here been in a broke down city after combat or natural distater and seen a barter system take place?? How much gold and silver did you see being traded? LOL, just food for thought.

derryb

I'll use my gold to hire Blackwater bodyguards, they appear to do anything for money.

Bochiman

<< <i> I read alot of these post and laugh.. Has anyone here been in a broke down city after combat or natural distater and seen a barter system take place?? How much gold and silver did you see being traded? LOL, just food for thought. >>



I see posts like these, and I laugh.

First, doom and gloom is all about the same. If it really happened, many of the "men" who have these guns and espouse their manliness, would be quite lost. And, there would be a lot more pressing issues going on.

Second, maybe someone just wants an excuse to go watch Red Dawn for the 1000th time to feel good about this type of scenario?

keepdachange

I have never purchased any of my pm's for a SHTF scenario but I do have one of these so I should be good. Also what is "STHF", SH#T THE HIT FAN?

Weiss

<< <i> In a few months, and I am not promoting it as we are already booked for over 1 year, 2 other investors bought a town and we teach wildnerness surival and urban survival. >>



You mean I can't come visit your town to learn how to survive? PLEASE?!! PLEASE!!!!!!!!!

I'm sure in your own little way you're proud of having bought a little ghost town and put up some 6-gallon HD plastic nitrogen packed pails of grain. And grinders. And dehydrated carrots. And I'm sure you have your own water storage system in place. And shelter, and fuel. And some tarps, and guns, and ammo. And some lanterns, and filaments, and some knives.

And that's a good start. And you should be proud. Because maybe that's your life's savings.

But for some of us, that's maybe not such a big amount of our life's savings. And maybe some of us are looking to maintain as much other wealth as we can.

So I'm not going to knock you running around in your surplus trench pants and your eye patch, pretending to be Bear Grylls as you teach paintball, uhh, I mean, urban survival to fat guys from St. Louis.

And maybe you don't knock us for discussing wealth preservation. Deal?

SportsModerator

Name the last time Switzerland was invaded.

The thing is a veritable WMD

bushmaster8

By God you're right! I am selling my PM's and buying beef jerky!

OPA

<< <i>

Name the last time Switzerland was invaded.

The thing is a veritable WMD >>



Napoleon did it....what do I win?

I'm stocking up on....coffee, cigarettes & nail clippers

keepdachange

Welcome to Camp Survival!

secondrepublic

I don't think civilization is going to collapse. But I do think we're going to see some inflation in the future, and PMs are a good hedge against that risk.

sbeverly

Name the last time Switzerland was invaded.

It is said that Switzerland doesn't have an army..Switzerland is an army.

SportsModerator

<< <i>

<< <i>

Name the last time Switzerland was invaded.

The thing is a veritable WMD >>



Napoleon did it....what do I win?

I'm stocking up on....coffee, cigarettes & nail clippers >>



You are correct, but the Swiss Army Knife wasn't available then. I should have stated SINCE the development of the Swiss WMD.

BUT supposing they had the knife available then. Would Napoleon have been defeated? No Russian campaign, no Waterloo, oh how the mind boggles with the possibilities!

1jester

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>

Name the last time Switzerland was invaded.

The thing is a veritable WMD >>



Napoleon did it....what do I win?

I'm stocking up on....coffee, cigarettes & nail clippers >>



You are correct, but the Swiss Army Knife wasn't available then. I should have stated SINCE the development of the Swiss WMD.

BUT supposing they had the knife available then. Would Napoleon have been defeated? No Russian campaign, no Waterloo, oh how the mind boggles with the possibilities! >>




Text

CaptHenway

<< <i>As you grab your gold and, yeah I've seen them, but you need a tank of gas would you give an oz of gold for 20 gallons of petrol?? Alot of you grab and go or survivalist wannabee's need to buy some common sense Rangar Benson survial books on city and country survival (people that have been there and done tat in many countries). In a few months, and I am not promoting it as we are already booked for over 1 year, 2 other investors bought a town and we teach wildnerness surival and urban survival. I read alot of these post and laugh.. Has anyone here been in a broke down city after combat or natural distater and seen a barter system take place?? How much gold and silver did you see being traded? LOL, just food for thought. >>




Please correct the acronym in your thread title.

rpw

There are several different grades of crisis that one can consider and prepare for but one has to be careful not confuse them. The most drastic one would be The End Of The World As We Know It (TEOTWAWKI). This would result from something like a nuclear war or an explosion of the Yellowstone Caldera. It is pretty much the end of civilization and You're On Your Own (YOYO). In such an event gold would indeed be worthless. I neither expect nor prepare for TEOTWAKI.

The next level down would be Sh*t Hits The Fan (SHTF). This type of event could range from a local catastrophe like Katrina or some national event like that imagined by William Forstchen in One Second After. What is probably the defining aspect of SHTF is that government authority and control is eventually reestablished. The event of this type that I expect someday and prepare for is a destructive earthquake along the Hayward Fault. I live in an area that would be seriously impacted by such an event. Gold would have little utility in this case and such simple items as potable water, food and fuel would be of paramount importance. I like to think that I am well prepared for such an event.

What I do expect is an economic crisis and we have the example in recent history of the Argentine Economic Crisis of roughly 1999-2002. It can be instructive to study it and the actions taken by the government there to contain it, known colloquially as "Corralito." I have spoken with individuals who experienced it and their accounts reveal several common things that helped them get through it.

First was possession of pistol. As the economy sinks, corruption grows rampant and certain areas experience a breakdown in law and order. The pistols are rarely if ever fired but often their mere presence deterred a lot of the street level crime that flourished. Many times just showing it in a belt or pulling it out was enough to convince a thug to search out easier victims.

The other things they really needed were two roles normally served by money, a medium of exchange and a store of value. For many of them it was US dollars. I have seen this same thing happen elsewhere, notably The Philippines under Ferdinand Marcos. Hell, back in the day I used to sneak in high denomination US currency which I could trade at a premium on the black market since their possession was prohibited to the general populace. But I do not think that there is a foreign currency well known enough and stable enough to serve such a role here.

As a store of value is where gold shines brightest. Gold will preserve some of my wealth through such an event. I was given and still have gold (in the form of $10 Liberty Head Eagles) that my grandparents refused to hand over to FDR back in the day so it's a family tradition with me. I do suspect that gold, even the smallest fractional AGE, will not do well as a medium of exchange for many reasons too complicated to go into here. I do expect 90% silver coins to be of exceptional utility in such a role and have acquired and salted away quite a bit of it. I am almost completely out of the stock market and may put even more money in gold. I reiterate that this is not an investment but rather so that someday I have something left. One should also be in some kind of common mutual support group but this is where the discussion veers off precious metals so I will end it here.

But I'm probably wrong. After all this is America. It can't happen here. We're too big to fail. Right?

topstuf

Well it don't make a heap o difference what I think, but my opinion is that after every country BUT Burkina Faso finds itself SOOOOO deep in debt and with SUCH worthless currency that gold WILL be used again as a PARTIAL currency guarantee.
Too many banks and funds are buying gold for it to just be a coincidence.
ANY percentage of gold behind ANY currency would make it desirable against all others.

And ANY extent of restoring faith in sovereign currency by partial gold backing would put gold at several multiples of where it is now.

But in a SHTF scenario, anyone who doesn't have a fair stash of $20 bills is just asking for trouble. THOSE would be the first thing to offer for goods. And the beauty of that is that they have absolutely NO intrinsic value. So you can save your gold for when BRAINS start to work again.

As far as survivalism, all you have to do is convince yourself that you can outloot any looter and outbrutalize any brutes. Then DO it.

jmski52

Well, shucks. I don't know how I'd be in a civil breakdown. There's nothing like a little fear in the air to get your adrenalin going.

rpw and topstuff, your posts make good sense to me. I'll probably go about my business in my usual mild-mannered way and try to be aware of the situation around me. There isn't much you can do unless you're at least prepared, so failing to prepare for different eventualities just leaves you more vulnerable.

Frankly, I'm not looking forward to it. If I had to be, I'm sure that I could be pretty darn mean too, by golly.

DrBuster

Just an FYI: zombies don't care about gold

Bear

We will all be OK ,as long as Otis is around.

BBN

I just have my tinfoil hat, I'll be safe.

I'll say it again. In this scenario which I doubt will ever happen the ones best off will probably have some livestock or chickens that lay plenty of eggs or someone who is a good gardener or one that has a major stash of dry beans or rice. When food and water is scarce pieces of metal will mean little. In a barter system one will have to look for a double coincidence of wants. If I'm raising bunches of chickes and nothing more heading to a bartering system market with 30-40 dozen eggs I'm going to probably be looking for some fresh veggies, dry beans, bread and beef, not Morgan dollars, then hoping a few people want a dozen eggs or two. The family wouldn't be too happy if I left with all the food we had and came back with coins.

pennyholic

All I need is beer and bait, well a couple more small items, but I will be by my favorite fishing hole and wake me up when it is over.
Although I like someones response a while back stating all he needs is Cash Bullets Condoms and lip balm saying if he can not shoot hump or buy himself out of any situation at least his lips would look good. lol

TexasNationals

Nice responses, it was just a question not an attack. For those who chose to attack Blackwater for all fo thier doings have you ever turned off CNN or asked a service member what we my have done for them. Year, some bad stuff happens, would you call a US Soldier a murder, just because a few have been charged or labled as such. DOesn't sound like you served your counrty nor even understand what service is?

PreTurb

Nice posts, all.

My concern is the logistics of food transportation/distribution. I live in an upscale suburb, densely populated area, 20 minutes outside a small city.

I know what is involved to transport food from there to here, from numerous sources, distribution centers, finally to my local grocery stores. If any of these links are broken or delayed, there will quickly be a shortage/panic. Much of the US (such as my area) had grown too dependent on the micro-managed coordination of food delivery.

Clearly, I'm in need of the urban survival guide material mentioned above!!!

renman95

Weiss, that was too funny, especially the Bear G. part.

mrearlygold

<< <i>I have never purchased any of my pm's for a SHTF scenario but I do have one of these so I should be good. Also what is "STHF", SH#T THE HIT FAN?

>>




Are Swiss Knives made in Switzerland? I think I'd like to buy one just to have, but I have to believe that if they aren't made in China then they're knocked off in China. How could you tell the difference and buy a real Swiss Knife made in Switzerland?

About 20 years ago a friend of mine who was a retired veterinarian, referred his friend to me, an equally fun senior citizen and she had me lugging these $1,000 face value bags of 90% over to her condo. Every couple of weeks she would call and around the 3rd time I asked her "hvsget", why are you buying these bags of silver coin? Her reply? The dollar was going to nothing and she could use the silver dimes to buy groceries and smaller items when that day came. I then asked her, "hvsget:, do you own any guns to which she replied, oh no, of course I don't. I then said well you may want to reconsider your position as if the country goes to crap like that, the guy who has the guns is going to take your silver.

Knowing those wild and crazy seniors, she prolly armed herself well

TrustNo1

I'm still waiting for SARS and the Pig flu to hit big.

SaorAlba

The S has hit the fan in my family, being ex-USSR and all. No there was practically no gold around, the only people that had it were the oligarchs who also had their own little armies, and still do. And still run the country. I could explain more, but why? Really no one really knows what they are going to do until something happens - you often find your best laid plans go out the windows because of situations you never thought of. When you have lived by survivalist methods, whatever they are - then only will you know. Food and warmth are what is most important - and you get them no matter the barriers. Been there, done that.

gecko109

<< <i>Nice responses, it was just a question not an attack. For those who chose to attack Blackwater for all fo thier doings have you ever turned off CNN or asked a service member what we my have done for them. Year, some bad stuff happens, would you call a US Soldier a murder, just because a few have been charged or labled as such. DOesn't sound like you served your counrty nor even understand what service is? >>




The Iraqi Government revoked Blackwater's license to operate in Iraq on September 17, 2007, because of a highly controversial incident that occurred the previous day. In that incident, seventeen (initially reported as eleven) Iraqis were killed.[98][99] The fatalities occurred while a Blackwater Private Security Detail (PSD) was escorting a convoy of U.S. State Department vehicles en route to a meeting in western Baghdad with United States Agency for International Development officials. The U.S. State Department has said that "innocent life was lost."[100] An anonymous U.S. military official was quoted as saying that Blackwater's guards opened fire without provocation and used excessive force.[101] The incident sparked at least five investigations, and an FBI probe found that Blackwater Employees used lethal force recklessly.[102][103] Blackwater helicopters were dispatched to evacuate the Polish ambassador following an insurgent assassination attempt on October 3, 2007.[104] The license was reinstated by the American government in April 2007, but the Iraqis announced that they have refused to extend that license in early 2009.


Real nice.

yellowkid

<< <i>I don't think civilization is going to collapse. But I do think we're going to see some inflation in the future, and PMs are a good hedge against that risk. >>



I believe this to be the rational approach to the subject of amassing PM's, the stockpiling of guns and ammo, IMHO, is fringe type thinking, well maybe the Swiss Army Knife.

TexasNationals

Wow Gecko, you figured out the first time a non-combatant has been hurt or killed! Congratulations!! Also, were you there, whereis the part about the IED's?? taking out the staging of the vehicles. Nice to know we have a holes like you who weren't there, didn't see people pick up weapons off the grounds and return fire. When kilo company rolled into a town in the north, took fire and j-dammed 12 buildings and non-combatants were killed, why are you talking about that? Very selective in attacking me huh?

You must be PO that those seals got off huh?

derryb

<< <i>You must be PO that those seals got off huh? >>


Big difference between Navy Seals and Guns for Hire.

gecko109

<< <i>

<< <i>You must be PO that those seals got off huh? >>


Big difference between Navy Seals and Guns for Hire. >>




Exactly my point.

storm888

<< You must be PO that those seals got off huh? >>


Big difference between Navy Seals and Guns for Hire.


//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////



Many SEALs would disagree.

........

The Blackwater guys can be in my army anytime.

storm888

Re: Countefeit Knives

Steven Watson's tips for making sure the knife is authentic:

1. There are only two manufacturers of the authentic Swiss Army knife - Victorinox and Wenger. Victorinox was created by the owner of a surgical equipment company who was upset that knives supplied to Swiss troops were made in Germany. Wenger came along about one decade later as a competitor to Victorinox.

2. An authentic Swiss Army knife will have markings on the blade and exteriors identifying one of the two manufacturers mentioned above. If the blade or exterior parts of the knife have no markings or are identified as being produced by a different company, then the knife is not authentic.

3. Swiss Army knives have only been manufactured since 1891 so, if someone wants to sell you a "collector" knife that is older than that year, it is a fake.

4. Many fake Swiss Army knives will have a traditional looking cross which is passed off as being the official crest. However, Swiss Army knives will have what is called a 'Swiss Cross" which is actually a symbol of the crossbow. Tradition has it that William Tell used the crossbow to shoot and kill the Austrian Governor to Switzerland at the time. This led to a revolution that eventually freed Switzerland from Austria. The use of the crossbow on any product is strictly regulated by the Swiss government as it reflects quality and national pride.

5. If you are thinking of purchasing the knife from a street vendor or someone you do not know, consider your decision. It is safest to purchase your knife from an authorized retailer which must be registered to sell Swiss Army knives. Ask the vendor for proof of registration as a Swiss Army knife retailer before you commit to the purchase.

...........

Cabela's usually has a good selection of real Wengers.

sak