I got taken and bought some counterfeits - and its my own fault.

Geoman

I had a guy walk into my store to sell a few silver dollars. He had 2 Trade dollars, and 5 Peace dollars. I immediately spotted the Trade dollars as counterfeit, as they were very light and I weighed them in front of him and explained why. They were cast counterfeits. The 5 Peace dollars were all common dates (1922's and 1923's) and were well worn - probably only G-4's to VG. I picked up only 2 of the 5 Peace Dollars and they seemed legit. So I paid him for the 5 Peace dollars and he gave me the 2 Trade dollars for free, which I was happy to get so I could get the off the market. After he left, I discovered that 2 of the 5 Peace dollars also seemed too light and weighed them, and found out they were also fake.

Now who counterfeits 1922 Peace dollars and wears them down to G-4 condition? Obviously I know why now, but it was a good ruse - admit the Trade dollars were counterfeit, so I won't key in on the 1922 Peace Dollars. Turns out he as going around to other stores in the area trying to sell more of them.

Walkerguy21D

Geesh - counterfeit 22P circ Peace dollars now? What's next, fake circ 36P buff nickels? You can't even trust the dreck and widgets anymore!
To add, I wouldn't have checked them either, and I hope you are made whole somehow - or at least get some satisfaction when this guy gets nailed.

ambro51

I would call the local US Secret Service Office and give them his name and information.

ProofCents

Its a fedreal crime you should report it

mikeyg

So whats the problem? You paid what...10 or 11 dollars for each peace dollar got 2 free fake trade dollars so now you put a display up FAKE CHINESE CONTERFEITS ONLY 49.99 each and sell out in a day

kaz

I'm guessing they were all Chinese fakes, since they seem to be churning out copies of virtually anything these days. Maybe the Peace dollars were worn down in a rock tumbler.
Seems like a lot of trouble-- and risk-- for a relatively small sum given the consequences of passing counterfeit US coinage.

Ahrensdad

Wow. I'm happy this experience didn't cost you more.

RedTiger

Fakes of low cost coins such as foreign minors, and other cheap coins have been reported. Low cost is not a way to avoid fakes, though it does limit the monetary damage. If it costs a nickel to make in quantity, and can be sold for a dollar or even a dime, "they" are faking them.

Manorcourtman

<< <i>I would call the local US Secret Service Office and give them his name and information. >>



Good luck with that!! I did that and they never called me back!

johnny9434

<< <i>

<< <i>I would call the local US Secret Service Office and give them his name and information. >>



Good luck with that!! I did that and they never called me back! >>



i agree, and the bummer is it seems there smart enough not to stick around ( at least i hope so )

BillJones

<< <i>Seems like a lot of trouble-- and risk-- for a relatively small sum given the consequences of passing counterfeit US coinage. >>



A big part of the trouble is that the Federal Government doesn't seem to care about this problem so the "consequences" seem to be slight, at least for now.

QuarterCollector

Put them up on Ebay and double your money. Just kidding... I would report him. We need to get these crooks off the streets.

Tom

doh

Could have been much more expensive...

ElKevvo

Wouldn't FAKE CHINESE CONTERFEITS be real? The big problem with law enforcement on this is most of these folks are small fry and even if you hauled one in they would have bought it from someone who bought it from someone who...well bought it at a flea market from some guy who they can't remember who. Dead end. And since they would be mostly one off's you're time is better spent on bigger fish as those are the cases that generate publicity and get you promoted etc. Each deal is small but in total the market is quite large....there are still enough folks buying this stuff to make it profitable enough to go through the trouble.

K

19Lyds

<< <i>

<< <i>I would call the local US Secret Service Office and give them his name and information. >>



Good luck with that!! I did that and they never called me back! >>



I would have called the local police since my experience is that the local police respond!

Well...........for counterfeit bills they do!

You'd have to explain the differences to the officer and then he/she'd make the SS report.

19Lyds

<< <i>

<< <i>Seems like a lot of trouble-- and risk-- for a relatively small sum given the consequences of passing counterfeit US coinage. >>



A big part of the trouble is that the Federal Government doesn't seem to care about this problem so the "consequences" seem to be slight, at least for now. >>



I think the problem is that these are being sold as "collectibles" and not being used as "money". When counterfeit Gucci bags or Rolex watches get sold on the street, the biggest impact is to the purchaser and the manufacturer, not the US economy.

If someone were to manufacture 1,000/5,000/10,000 IKE's or SBA's and start using them to buy goods, there might be a different response. I guess what I'm saying is that folks don;'t look at coinage as real money. They look at it as "make-up the difference change".

Manorcourtman

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>I would call the local US Secret Service Office and give them his name and information. >>



Good luck with that!! I did that and they never called me back! >>



I would have called the local police since my experience is that the local police respond!

Well...........for counterfeit bills they do!

You'd have to explain the differences to the officer and then he/she'd make the SS report. >>



Local police don't work either. Tried that angle. I also had a bad experience with counterfeit coins if you cannot tell. I also filed a complaint with Postal Inspectors. Nada!! I am currently working with my state Attorney General who have the counterfeit sellers ear currently. Counterfeit coins are not exactly priority to any agency currently. It really sucks!

doh

How do we know the guy who sold them knew they were counterfeit?? Everyone seems to be ready to hang the guy...maybe he was unaware??

RedTiger

<< <i>How do we know the guy who sold them knew they were counterfeit?? Everyone seems to be ready to hang the guy...maybe he was unaware?? >>



I agree. I'd say 90% chance the guy didn't know and was a victim as well. Probably bought them from a flea market or on Craigslist or from some person walking the streets looking for marks.

Think of it this way, if a person knew they had fakes why would they try to sell at a coin shop where the expert is likely to spot them? Wouldn't it make more sense for a person with known fakes to try and sell to someone without any expertise, such as an average small time collector?

pmac

<< <i>Wouldn't FAKE CHINESE CONTERFEITS be real? The big problem with law enforcement on this is most of these folks are small fry and even if you hauled one in they would have bought it from someone who bought it from someone who...well bought it at a flea market from some guy who they can't remember who. Dead end. And since they would be mostly one off's you're time is better spent on bigger fish as those are the cases that generate publicity and get you promoted etc. Each deal is small but in total the market is quite large....there are still enough folks buying this stuff to make it profitable enough to go through the trouble.

K >>


Maybe the Taiwanese are counterfeiting the mainland "fakes".

TomB

I think it likely that the counterfeit Peace dollars were made in low grade to begin with and then aged onsite instead of being made at a relatively high grade appearance.

IrishMikey

This is nothing new. In the 1970's and early 1980's the various law enforcement agencies
would always respond to fake $20's and $100's, while you would be lucky to elicit more than
a polite yawn with counterfeit coins. I agree with a previous post about whether Joe Public
will be using them for purchases, or if it is a collector coin that will not circulate.

Sorry you got nailed on the Peace dollars, but congrats on catching the Trade dollars. Some
of them are good enough to fool a lot of people.

CaptHenway

<< <i>I had a guy walk into my store to sell a few silver dollars. He had 2 Trade dollars, and 5 Peace dollars. I immediately spotted the Trade dollars as counterfeit, as they were very light and I weighed them in front of him and explained why. They were cast counterfeits. The 5 Peace dollars were all common dates (1922's and 1923's) and were well worn - probably only G-4's to VG. I picked up only 2 of the 5 Peace Dollars and they seemed legit. So I paid him for the 5 Peace dollars and he gave me the 2 Trade dollars for free, which I was happy to get so I could get the off the market. After he left, I discovered that 2 of the 5 Peace dollars also seemed too light and weighed them, and found out they were also fake.

Now who counterfeits 1922 Peace dollars and wears them down to G-4 condition? Obviously I know why now, but it was a good ruse - admit the Trade dollars were counterfeit, so I won't key in on the 1922 Peace Dollars. Turns out he as going around to other stores in the area trying to sell more of them. >>



Those counterfeit Peace dollars are not new.
TD

Bossman88

Those counterfeit Peace dollars are not new.
TD


I have a 1922 Peace Dollar that had been in my mother's
small collection for about 30 years.
In 2001 when it became mine I listed it on the Bay for sale
and a very polite board member contacted me to tell me is was counterfiet
and fully explained the diagnostics so I ended the auction
and put it in a junk drawer in my basement. BTW same member
invited me to come check out this forum.
Wish I could remember who it was so I could say Thank you.

Regards, Larry

WTCG

Those counterfeit circulated Peace dollars are in ways the "level 1" counterfeits - those copy coins have been around longer than any counterfeit slabs or other denominations. Circulated Morgan and Peace dollars were some of the first coins to be copied. You can find those fake U.S. silver dollars by the bag in China.

It's always a good idea to check circulated silver dollars because the amount of wear and the relatively low value those coins are the easiest for a dishonest seller to pass as real coins.

SaorAlba

I saw fakes of the 1921 Morgans, 1922 and 1923 Peace dollars for sale in China several times in different places. If you can make something that cost say 25 cents, and then in the end it sells for $11-12, you can see there is a profit to be made similar to more traditional lines of manufacturing.

sinin1

seller must have known (unless inheritance?), otherwise would not have given away the 2 trade dollars


Geoman, did the entire group cost you near $50?




was it the same guy trying to sell similar stuff to other dealers?

robkool

WOW... At least it wasn't a costly mistake, and you weren't out alot of $$$.

GFourDriver

I was at the local B&M shop a couple of weeks ago and two very shady looking guys came in (I wouldn't have even buzzed them in), with a bunch of counterfeit Confederate Currency. They tried to pretend surprise when they were told that they were counterfeit, but you could tell they knew. Sadly, criminals are everywhere.

yellowkid

<< <i>I would call the local US Secret Service Office and give them his name and information. >>



You wouldn't get past the receptionist.....