Does anyone think declared values affect grading outcomes?

lukeeaster

I believe declared value is for insurance purposes only but has anyone seen any evidence that declared value affects grading outcome? I.e., does a higher insurance value lead to a higher grade? Does anyone know if the graders even see the insurance value? Has anyone tested this idea with multiple submissions of near identical cards? I'm certain I know what PSA's response would be. Thanks

Mickey71

Yes.

hammered

No.

hhmag70

Maybe.

swartz1

I wouldnt think that paperwork would be seen by the grader...

but could be wrong...

Mickey71

Put a high grade Mantle in a bulk sub and see what happens.

hammered

Graders don't see declared values, nor do they care what value you put on it.
If a Mantle gets a grade different from the rest of your sub, it's because it's a Mantle, not b/c of your declared value.

Nascar360

Just my 2 cents. Higher declared value to me means more eyes on it. More graders look at it. I have nothing to go by other than 5 years of getting cards graded. Makes perfect business sense to me. Time is money.

hammered

<< <i>Higher declared value to me means more eyes on it. More graders look at it. >>



I don't think this is true, either. A 50's Mantle might very well have more graders look at it, but again, b/c it's a Mantle.
If you send in a '78T Joe Morgan and put a value of $5000 on it, it's not going to attract any more attention than normal.

Mickey71

Let me rephrase this: Put a high grade Mantle in a sub that costs like $6 a card to grade. Not once or twice--I've done it like 5 times and no dice. Send it in regular or higher ---PSA 8. I don't want to beat it to death; but is this a coincidence? Maybe bulk graders are terrible? What could be the reasoning for this?

Mickey71

If you send a NM-Mt 56 Mantle on a bulk sub you are not getting an 8. Evid of trimming or miscut or min size. They are in business to make money. You have to pay to grade that bad boy.

handyman

I sent in 3 1963 Fleer Baseball cards that looked Nm-Mt to Mint. Star cards but not to big of names. I sent them in on the 6.00 bulk sub
First time graded as such
1963 Don Drysdale PSA 6
1963 Bill Mazeroski PSA 7
1963 Ken Boyer PSA 7

The cards did not match the grade so I sent them in under the 14.00 service.
New grades
1963 Don Drysdale PSA 8
1963 Bill Mazeroskie PSA 8.5
1963 Ken Boyer PSA 8.5

Big difference
From cards with grades that mean they have almost every corner having wear to almost MINT in grades

Oh yeah this happend 2 months ago

leadoff4

I say no... the following cards were sent in March as part of the $4.50 special. Max delcared value was $100.
1 1 16532790 EXCELLENT 5 1968 TOPPS 500 FRANK ROBINSON Card US
2 1 16532791 MINT 9 1968 TOPPS 280 MICKEY MANTLE Card US
3 1 16532792 NEAR MINT+ 7.5 1968 TOPPS 230 PETE ROSE Card US
4 1 16532793 EXCELLENT-MINT 6 1968 TOPPS 330 ROGER MARIS Card US
5 1 16532794 NEAR MINT 7 1968 TOPPS 247 REDS ROOKIES JOHNNY BENCH/RON TOMPKINS Card US
6 1 16532795 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 OC 1968 TOPPS 177 METS ROOKIES J.KOOSMAN/N.RYAN Card US
7 1 16532796 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1968 TOPPS 150 BOB CLEMENTE

handyman

Damn youre cheap lol. Nolan Ryan under the 4.50 service. JK but they let you do that?

thehallmark

<< <i>I sent in 3 1963 Fleer Baseball cards that looked Nm-Mt to Mint. Star cards but not to big of names. I sent them in on the 6.00 bulk sub
First time graded as such
1963 Don Drysdale PSA 6
1963 Bill Mazeroski PSA 7
1963 Ken Boyer PSA 7

The cards did not match the grade so I sent them in under the 14.00 service.
New grades
1963 Don Drysdale PSA 8
1963 Bill Mazeroskie PSA 8.5
1963 Ken Boyer PSA 8.5

Big difference
From cards with grades that mean they have almost every corner having wear to almost MINT in grades

Oh yeah this happend 2 months ago >>



That example is more along the lines of what I would expect. This system is far from perfect, but there is definitely a best way to play the game. Let PSA wet their beak a little bit and you can make out very well.

hammered

I don't think you're addressing the OP's question.
If I understood it correctly, he asked if you subbed the same card twice, with different declared values only, would a higher declared value affect the grade?

hammered

There is no way to 'play the game'. There is no secret way to fill out a sub form, no optimal # of cards to include, no service level prone to getting better grades than others, no rhyme, no reason. You just send in your cards and hope to catch a lenient grader.

itzagoner

quite often bulk subs become susceptible to speed grading, whereas small groups of cards submitted under higher dollar specials might be subjected to closer scrutiny.....it can work both ways.

as for my own experiences, i've pretty much been under the assumption that the grade is usually the grade and i've had plenty of nice higher than $100 value examples returned in bulk subs, but the value wasn't established until the card went into the holder....i think the key here is that most of the time you're not going to succeed including a bulk sub high value card like a vintage Mantle, Aaron, Ryan rookie, etc. which are no-brainer examples of 8 or better, and then declare minimal value, they just won't let you get away with that.

lukeeaster

Handyman - You seem to have the only empirical data so far. While 3 cards does not make a statistical study, it is interesting that you got 1.5-2 grades higher for the more costly service. Thanks. Keep the comments coming.

handyman

"I don't think you're addressing the OP's question.
If I understood it correctly, he asked if you subbed the same card twice, with different declared values only, would a higher declared value affect the grade?"

Well the first time I subed them I did declare them as such
1963 Drysdale 50.00
1963 B Maz 10.00
1963 Boyer 10.00
Second Time
Drysdale 50.00
Bill Maz 30.00
1963 Boyer 30.00

Also in the antoher sub I had a 1956 Ford that graded a 6. Card looks Nm-Mt++. It was also in a discount group sub the first time.
Sent it under the same sub with the drysdale under the 14.00 sub now its an 8

The declared values I dont think caused the grade bump but I feel the service made the difference. Those 8.5 look like most nine that I have but under the 6.00 sub they gave them grades with wear. Ticked me off. And I knew they were graded wrong. That whole sub I think I could send back and get a 1 grade bump on almost 50% of them. But its not worth the extra fees

TomGshotput

First the number of cards sent in a submission effects the grade, not the declared value does?

If people really believe factors other than the card itself determines what grade it receives, why do people pay premiums for graded cards?

handyman

I believe there are factors other than the card that determine the grade completely.

handyman

I even sometimes try and factor in what day of the week my cards may be graded Monday or friday ect. Or if there was a certain holiday like new years or a super bowl how the graders mood may affect the grades. Over doing it but I think about that when subing
Id like to find out when some graders have Bdays they may be handing out gifts that week. JOKING


This is just on the day of the week factor that Im looking at
I just went over 14 different submissions and 5 of the 14 subs I felt were graded on either a bad day or just undergraded that day and I was successful with cracking out each card that was undergraded to recieve a higher grade the next time.

Bad days were on
4 of the 5 days were on Friday and one on thursday.

The good days 9 diff subs were
Monday 1 1 for 1 so not sure
Tuesday 0
Wed 4 Happy
Thur 2 1 of 3 subs were bad on this day
Friday 2 4 or 6 subs were bad on this day
Not sure what it means but now I want my cards graded on tuesday or wed lol. Stupid game

itzagoner

<< <i>I believe there are factors other than the card that determine the grade completely. >>



of course there are.

a)wind velocity - even an occasional, artificially created breeze blowing through the grading room could be a distraction, so we should consider requesting that no one open the bathroom door while our cards are being examined, particularly the expensive ones....the level of service form should include this with an additional charge, and hopefully somebody doesn't spend the whole day speed grading toilet paper.

b)non-compliant sound barriers - if someone in the front office is listening to rap music on their headphones, the waves of blistering beats, not to mention the swear words, could ultimately result in the untimely assignment of a mid-level grade by distraction or grooving, even to the average common.....they should ban everything but Muzak or The Who.

c)Ultimate Frisbee - yes, you heard me correctly.....it's just fun to say, and i think about happy Irish setters and pound puppies interrupting the competition by stealing the object of contention.....then, all the players run after them, it's hilarious.

d)girls.

e)liquor - the night before, okay?......although, the grading room is kept private, think about it.

toothshucker

<<There is no way to 'play the game'. There is no secret way to fill out a sub form, no optimal # of cards to include, no service level prone to getting better grades than others, no rhyme, no reason. You just send in your cards and hope to catch a lenient grader. >>

Respectfully disagree. Sounds a bit nuts but I believe vintage high end material particularly PSA quality 7's 8's and 9's have a better chance to reach the next higher half grade or better grade if submitted in groups of less than ten cards, placed in the first or last position in the order and at a mid range grading service price. Just been my experience over 10+ years. Also I have found resubmits of higher end material for a grade also works. Interested to see what others think. Pete

Blacklabelsociety

i say NO. You dont know the value until you get the grade.

WinPitcher

No.


Steve