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The little symbol that most call a "bull"on Englehard bars, any guesses as to what it rea

BigEBigE Posts: 6,949 ✭✭✭
in Precious Metals
Could someone post a close up photo? I was thinking it could be an old scale---------BigE
I'm glad I am a Tree

Comments

  • AboutAgAboutAg Posts: 201 ✭✭
    From a 10-ounce cast/stamped bar: image

    From a 10-ounce poured bar: image

    Two different variations, to complicate things further!
  • bstat1020bstat1020 Posts: 2,151 ✭✭
    I have never seen it referred to anything other than a "bull".

    Bstat
    Madelyn's Birth Year Registry Set, Sophia's Birth Year Registry Set, My 10 Best Coins
  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,119 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Canadian Bull (starship) logo signifying Canadian origin.
    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231 ✭
    Ok, just got off the phone with a metals rep from BASF (new owners of Engelhard). The rep said that he believes the stamp is an alchemists' symbol of some sort, and not the head of a caterpillar, nor the astrological symbol of taurus. I looked up alchemy symbols really quickly on Wiki, and it appears that while there is no exact match, its almost certain that the rep was correct.

    Alchemy symbols
  • gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231 ✭
    Variation of the symbol for bismuth? I think we may have a match for the non center dot Engelhard emblem!
  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,941 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The Taurus symbol is also used in alchemy as the symbol for mercury, which has a long history alongside gold and silver and is also used in its REFINING.

    image
    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,119 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Maybe ... but 20+ odd years ago, I was informed that the bull or "star ship" symbol either signified produced in Canada or (I'm not sure) using Canadian Ore.
    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,128 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Ok, just got off the phone with a metals rep from BASF (new owners of Engelhard). The rep said that he believes the stamp is an alchemists' symbol of some sort, and not the head of a caterpillar, nor the astrological symbol of taurus. I looked up alchemy symbols really quickly on Wiki, and it appears that while there is no exact match, its almost certain that the rep was correct.

    Alchemy symbols >>




    Sure, try logic first!!!!!

    Ya hoser!!!!

    image
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,128 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The Taurus symbol is also used in alchemy as the symbol for mercury, which has a long history alongside gold and silver and is also used in its REFINING.

    image >>



    That symbol derives from Hermes caduceus, and is not the symbol for Taurus.

    TD
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • AboutAgAboutAg Posts: 201 ✭✭


    << <i>Maybe ... but 20+ odd years ago, I was informed that the bull or "star ship" symbol either signified produced in Canada or (I'm not sure) using Canadian Ore. >>



    I do believe that the 'bull logo' (I guess now we'll need to call it the 'bismuth logo') was indeed used for the products from Engelhard Canada. That would, however, suggest that about 2/3rds of the 1oz silver Engelhard bars were made in Canada (I have no idea if that seems realistic or not).
  • gsa1fangsa1fan Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭
    May be a combination of silver & gold symbols?

    # Gold dominated by Sol ☉ ☼ ( Sun symbol.svg )
    # Silver dominated by Luna ☽ ( Crescent.svg
    Avid collector of GSA's.
  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,941 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    That symbol derives from Hermes caduceus, and is not the symbol for Taurus.

    TD >>



    Tell that to 20th century designers. image

    image

    image

    image
    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231 ✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    That symbol derives from Hermes caduceus, and is not the symbol for Taurus.

    TD >>



    Tell that to 20th century designers. image

    image

    image

    image >>





    Those symbols are MUCH different than the alchemy symbol you posted earlier Weiss. Night and day in fact.
  • gsa1fangsa1fan Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭
    NYMEX.com: Gold
    Aurora, Ontario ENAU * ENGELHARD (with circle connected to 1/2 moon to left of name; may also be ENGELHARD INDUSTRIES OF CANADA LTD.)
    www.nymex.com
    Avid collector of GSA's.
  • gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231 ✭


    << <i>NYMEX.com: Gold
    Aurora, Ontario ENAU * ENGELHARD (with circle connected to 1/2 moon to left of name; may also be ENGELHARD INDUSTRIES OF CANADA LTD.)
    www.nymex.com >>




    We may have a winner!
  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,941 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>


    Those symbols are MUCH different than the alchemy symbol you posted earlier Weiss. Night and day in fact. >>



    Wait. You think these symbols are so different that they are like night and day?
    They're virtually identical.

    image
    image


    Just compare how little they differ from these images of the same subject matter:
    image
    image

    Or these?
    image
    image

    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231 ✭
    A circle with a half moon attached is not even in the same ballpark as a circle with a half moon attached and then attached to a cross. Thats like saying the "-" symbol is the same as the "+" symbol just because they both share a horizontal dash!image
  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,941 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>A circle with a half moon attached is not even in the same ballpark as a circle with a half moon attached and then attached to a cross. Thats like saying the "-" symbol is the same as the "+" symbol just because they both share a horizontal dash!image >>



    Ok. image
    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,128 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>A circle with a half moon attached is not even in the same ballpark as a circle with a half moon attached and then attached to a cross. Thats like saying the "-" symbol is the same as the "+" symbol just because they both share a horizontal dash!image >>



    What he said!!!!

    TD
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,128 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>May be a combination of silver & gold symbols?

    # Gold dominated by Sol ¨‘ ☼ ( Sun symbol.svg )
    # Silver dominated by Luna ☽ ( Crescent.svg >>



    That's an interesting theory.
    TD
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,119 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>NYMEX.com: Gold
    Aurora, Ontario ENAU * ENGELHARD (with circle connected to 1/2 moon to left of name; may also be ENGELHARD INDUSTRIES OF CANADA LTD.)
    www.nymex.com >>




    We may have a winner! >>



    Doh, Gecko, read the 4th post .... when I brought it to light. What do I win?
    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • NumbersUsacomNumbersUsacom Posts: 1,457 ✭
    Its the Star Ship enterprise of Star Trek fame, or maybe its just a mark denoting production in Canada.
    NumbersUsa, FairUs, Alipac, CapsWeb, and TeamAmericaPac
  • MoneyLAMoneyLA Posts: 1,825 ✭
    If you take a bar to Dealey plaza, point it towards the Text book depository, and follow the perpendicular lines, it will point to the locations of the second and third gunmen.
    Cheers, Alan Mendelson
    www.AlanBestBuys.com
    www.VegasBestBuys.com
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