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The wild west is over

WeissWeiss Posts: 9,941 ✭✭✭✭✭
for coin and metal buyers and sellers...

Starting next year, any bank or other payment settlement company that processes credit cards, debit cards, and electronic payments such as PayPal will have to issue information returns telling the IRS what merchants receive. The new returns are Form 1099-K, Merchant Card and Third-Party Payments.

Exception: Very small merchants won't be issued information returns. "Small" for this purpose means annual gross sales on merchant cards of no more than $20,000 or 200 or fewer transactions. In other words, reporting is required only if gross amounts for the year exceed $20,000 and there are more than 200 transactions.

http://www.auctionbytes.com/cab/abu/y210/m03/abu0258/s03

It's going to be increasingly difficult to move coins, metals, etc. without the feds seeing what's going on. Bank transactions involving $10k or more are already subject to Bank Secrecy Act/Patriot Act reporting.

We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
--Severian the Lame

Comments

  • Will that apply to bank wire transfers?
  • bestmrbestmr Posts: 1,777 ✭✭✭
    Well, I'm a VERY SMALL merchant so I'll be safe. I will accept offers to run things through me to avoid the tax man for a small fee....imageimageimage
    Positive dealing with oilstates2003, rkfish, Scrapman1077, Weather11am, Guitarwes, Twosides2acoin, Hendrixkat, Sevensteps, CarlWohlforth, DLBack, zug, wildjag, tetradrachm, tydye, NotSure, AgBlox, Seemyauction, Stopmotion, Zubie, Fivecents, Musky1011, Bstat1020, Gsa1fan several times, and Mkman123 LOTS of times
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,128 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Interesting.
    What about internet sales that aren't auctions?
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • CptH......

    As I read it, it looks like ALL transactions will be recorded .......
    and will be reported to the Gestapo if your TOTAL YEARLY SALES ( CC, DC, Electronic ) = $20k or more.


    Info.


    Silver Baron
    ********************
    Silver is the mortar that binds the bricks of loyalty.
  • gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231
    Such a bunch of bullchit! Im so sick of this government's "prying eyes" mentality. As long as I pay my taxes in full, and break no laws, they have NO BUSINESS tracking what I buy!!!


  • << <i>Such a bunch of bullchit! Im so sick of this government's "prying eyes" mentality. As long as I pay my taxes in full, and break no laws, they have NO BUSINESS tracking what I buy!!! >>



    I'm not defending the policy, but that's kind of the point isn't it? How can they know if you're paying your taxes in full and breaking no laws if they don't know what you buy?
    "YOU SUCK!" Awarded by nankraut/renomedphys 6/13/13 - MadMarty dissents
  • KUCHKUCH Posts: 1,186


    << <i>Such a bunch of bullchit! Im so sick of this government's "prying eyes" mentality. As long as I pay my taxes in full, and break no laws, they have NO BUSINESS tracking what I buy!!! >>



    Then do something about it.image
  • softparadesoftparade Posts: 9,276 ✭✭✭✭✭
    SOLCIALISM / LIBERALISM

    take your pick. the same difference. We reep how we vote.

    ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240

  • ebaytraderebaytrader Posts: 3,312 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Bank transactions involving $10k or more are already subject to Bank Secrecy Act/Patriot Act reporting.
    >>




    Some types of transactions are reportable at $3k. Some are reportable at 1¢.
  • RobbRobb Posts: 2,034


    << <i>SOLCIALISM / LIBERALISM

    take your pick. the same difference. We reep how we vote. >>



    Patriot Act was the first step.
    imageRIP
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,122 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>SOLCIALISM / LIBERALISM

    take your pick. the same difference. We reep how we vote. >>



    How else are we supposed to redistribute the wealth?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • fishcookerfishcooker Posts: 3,446 ✭✭

    And just at lunch today, our client was bragging on how much he scalped Garth Brooks tickets for.
  • DrBusterDrBuster Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭✭✭
    <--loves the black market
  • AboutAgAboutAg Posts: 201 ✭✭


    << <i>... will have to issue information returns telling the IRS what merchants receive. >>



    This is a bit misleading -- 'what' just means 'amount'. So if Dealer X accepts credit cards, the bank is going to report that they did $Y in sales each month. That just goes to the IRS, who already sees the full amount of sales that the dealer made that year (including cash, checks, etc.) on Dealer X's tax returns. This really only affects those dealers (and $20K+/year auction sellers) that are evading taxes. That's a good thing, that means that MY taxes will go down (in theory, at least).

    There is no "tracking what people buy." The IRS will not get any information on any customers, or what they bought/sold. They won't even know if the business is selling bullion or used jeans. If the report says $20,000 received in June, 2011, that could be 10,000 sales of $2 items, or a single sale of $20,000 -- the IRS won't know.

  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,119 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i> If the report says $20,000 received in June, 2011, that could be 10,000 sales of $2 items, or a single sale of $20,000 -- the IRS won't know. >>



    If you believe that, well, as the saying goes: "I've got a bridge in Brooklyn up for sale." ( Big Brother, if he wants to, will know what time you're taking a dump & how long it takes you to do so)
    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • AboutAgAboutAg Posts: 201 ✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i> If the report says $20,000 received in June, 2011, that could be 10,000 sales of $2 items, or a single sale of $20,000 -- the IRS won't know. >>



    If you believe that, well, as the saying goes: "I've got a bridge in Brooklyn up for sale." ( Big Brother, if he wants to, will know what time you're taking a dump & how long it takes you to do so) >>



    My statement backs itself up, if you've seen the sample form. If the form has "$20,000" in Box 5f, it would be impossible for the IRS to know whether the dealer sold one person $20K worth of silver or 10,000 $2 trinkets.

    I'm not trying to say that the IRS cannot get that information; in some types of audits they can and will find out. Or maybe they already have it now, and I should go out and buy that tinfoil hat I've dreamed of. My point is simply that people shouldn't freak out about this new reporting requirement, as it really only affects people making $20K+ per year and not reporting it.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,128 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>... will have to issue information returns telling the IRS what merchants receive. >>



    This is a bit misleading -- 'what' just means 'amount'. So if Dealer X accepts credit cards, the bank is going to report that they did $Y in sales each month. That just goes to the IRS, who already sees the full amount of sales that the dealer made that year (including cash, checks, etc.) on Dealer X's tax returns. This really only affects those dealers (and $20K+/year auction sellers) that are evading taxes. That's a good thing, that means that MY taxes will go down (in theory, at least).

    There is no "tracking what people buy." The IRS will not get any information on any customers, or what they bought/sold. They won't even know if the business is selling bullion or used jeans. If the report says $20,000 received in June, 2011, that could be 10,000 sales of $2 items, or a single sale of $20,000 -- the IRS won't know. >>




    I think you are right. The only thing being reported is monetary sales, in dollar value. Nothing to do with what is being sold.
    TD
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • EagleEyeEagleEye Posts: 7,677 ✭✭✭✭✭
    New IRS Form 1099-K, Merchant Card and Third-Party Payments


    The provision was enacted as part of the Housing Assistance Tax Act of 2008 and is designed to improve voluntary tax compliance by business taxpayers and help the IRS determine whether their tax returns are correct and complete.


    From the OP: It's going to be increasingly difficult to move coins, metals, etc. without the feds seeing what's going on.

    I don't draw that conclusion. They only see the amounts that get processed through merchant accounts. I don't think PayPal is affected.
    Rick Snow, Eagle Eye Rare Coins, Inc.Check out my new web site:
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