Yea..I thought that odd too....I know when I got cheated, I was PROUD to out the person who sent the empty slabs back to me......I don't have much love for scumbuckets!
I had the exact same thing happen to me. I sold a psa card on ebay and the buyer filed a complaint with ebay for a refund. He waited over 60 days to file the complaint. ebay told me to give the buyer a refund as soon as i got the card back. Well, he sent the card back alright. But it was not the same card i sold him. It was for $1000. Ebay gave him a courtesy refund, and never asked me for the money.
Paypal is just as bad as ebay. When a buyer files a snad charge, even if there is no wrongdoing on part of the seller, paypal will usually rule in favor of the scamster buyer.
In a case like this it will not likely do any good to go to the local PD. They will just say that it is a civil matter.
<< <i>Apparently I am the bad guy now. I missed that part. Sorry for the confusion. >>
Well you want advice and help from people here, but you don't seem at all interested in protecting or helping us from being scammed by the same guy.
I wonder if anyone else has sent the same buyer a card since this thread started. Someone that might have read this thread and could have been warned about the scammer. You just ignore people's question's when the answers might even help you win a case if others are effected.
Sorry for your troubles. I'd feel really bad if I knew this was even real???
<< <i>Apparently I am the bad guy now. I missed that part. Sorry for the confusion. >>
Why not provide scans of the before and after card, and the ebay ID of the scammer. What are we missing here Allen that would prevent you from doing that?
<< <i>Apparently I am the bad guy now. I missed that part. Sorry for the confusion. >>
Why not provide scans of the before and after card, and the ebay ID of the scammer. What are we missing here Allen that would prevent you from doing that? >>
<< <i>Apparently I am the bad guy now. I missed that part. Sorry for the confusion. >>
Why not provide scans of the before and after card, and the ebay ID of the scammer. What are we missing here Allen that would prevent you from doing that? >>
Apparently he's the bad guy. We missed that part. Apologies have been added for our confusion.
Well, something isn't right. Allen has had 2 ripoff stories that he was involved as a seller. However, he doesn't come back to reveal more details or updates on the situation. Seems very laxed about it. Maybe he's only outlining a situation/scenario as a conversation topic. At this point, I'm not buying the story anymore. I hope I'm wrong and maybe he is talking with the appropriate authorities right now and not chiming in.
Nothing personal here, 1st time Ive read this post... And I dont know most of you personally.
but OP Allen dropped the ball 1/2 way home.
I was ready to add some advise ... if I got some REAL info from the OP beside a (one sided, no proof) story of heartache.
A couple of the later comments are wishy washy at best, ... I personally would happily provide all the info anyone wanted in this case if it happened to me.
A so called $2K card usually has a few scans behind it..... you should have been happy to provide info on what type of "card" this was, a few before scans, item#, after scans, winner ID, etc. Heck (if true) maybe the winner is trying to flip the real card and thats all the proof you need (tying the true card to the scammer). You would have a few hundred scouts out there looking around trying to help out a fellow PSA Board Member....... But as it is right now Many will only be thinking this is one side of a story. Its not like you overlooked the pleas for more Real info, it actually became the subject at the end.
Why hide basic Real info?? Makes no sense at all, bigtime
I have seen similar problems with cards 10+X the value and the owners will usually provide this basic info.
There are a few attorneys who view these message boards BTW
All I can say is Yes someone got scammed at one point. It might be us for all I know
The Main Title of this post, alone, is very suspicious especially since you predicted the conclusion
this thread is like the guy who tells us of the story of the pack searcher he gets in a fight with......and he tells the same story over and over a bit different....
Just thought I would update this with my final post. After following all of the Resolution Center steps I lost the case and the appeal. I then sent these letters and got these responses.
Letter One- sent after my final appeal was denied.
To Whom It May Concern: I received notice that I had a dispute filed against me in the eBay Resolution Center on February 21, 2010. The information the buyer provided was not accurate and I saw no way I would be able to resolve this issue with the buyer. I called eBay and was transferred to eBay Resolution Center Customer Support. I explained the situation and the customer service representative told me that since the buyer left feedback saying the item was "Perfect" she was going to close the dispute in my favor. This did not happen and the dispute only reflected that the case was escalated to eBay Customer Support. I called again and the customer service representative informed me that the representative to whom I spoke with previously had not closed the case or entered any information. I asked to speak with the representative I had spoken to previously and was informed I could not be transferred to them and they it did not work that way. I waited for eBay Customer Support to contact me within 48 hours as my case said they would. Four days later I received a standard email telling me that I had lost the dispute. The buyer had already shipped me a different item so they would have a confirmation number if they had a chance to get a refund. I made several more attempts in getting help from customer service and was told that due to the dollar amount of the transaction my case had been assigned a specialist who would have to handle it. Twice I left my cell phone number and was assured they emailed him and he would be calling me that same day. I was never called. Now I have eBay telling me they refunded this buyer and I am to reimburse eBay. Since the item returned to me is not the original item that I shipped to the buyer I will be out both the original item and $2,000.00. I followed all of the rules and I have been left holding the bag because one customer service representative gave me inaccurate information telling me they would close the case initially and another who would not contact me despite several pleas. I appealed this case in the eBay Resolution Center and received an email stating the appeal was denied. When I go to the case in the resolution center it still says that I am awaiting a response and should have one in 48 hours, it has been weeks and still no response. I would like to know what kind of documentation or police reports eBay needs to review this case and fix this. I tried many times to contact a case specialist and I could not get a reply. I hope this letter can reach someone who can help me and help to improve eBay Customer Service.
I have been on eBay since 1998 and I have seen many things change for better and worse. I understand that eBay is trying to make it safe for the buyers, but this is a case of an unscrupulous buyer scamming an honest seller. I hope eBay will consider overturning the decision of this case. Thank You for your time and consideration -----------------------------------------------------------
eBay response:
Thank you for writing eBay in regard to your case. I will be happy to answer your questions about this, but before I do I would like to apologize for the time that it has taken us to get back with you.
I am very sorry that you have had to deal with this. Unfortunately because your buyer is stating that they received a different item than they purchased we had no choice, but to find in the buyers favor. This is the same reason that the appeal was denied. At this point, I would contact the local authorities so that they can make a proper investigation as to what to do. I am very sorry that we are unable to assist you with this further and hope that someone can help clear this up for you.
I understand your frustration regarding this matter and apologize for the inconvenience it caused you.
Sincerely, Julianne H.
eBay Customer Support
-----------------------------------
I sent this response:
I hope someone at eBay can see the problem here. The buyer said the item was "not as described" and eBay sided with a new buyer with a feedback score of five over a 12 year seller. Since eBay is claiming that I owe them $2,000.00 and you allowed the buyer to ship me an item that is counterfeit and worthless I am currently out the item AND the money eBay is claiming I owe. If I contact the authorities and file a lawsuit against the buyer and the courts award me the full amount I would still be out the complete value of the item since eBay wants the money. I need to know what I need to do to get eBay to remove this false charge.
**DO NOT REPLY ? Replies to this email cannot be responded to. This email was intended to be a 1-way communication to inform you of the outcome of your appeal.**
Thank you for contacting eBay in regard to your item. I understand how frustrating this situation may have been for you and I can certainly appreciate your concern with the outcome of this case.
At this time, we are unable to grant your appeal as it has been over 45 days since our decision was made. We understand some situations can prevent a timely response but please be aware that the time frame is for the benefit of both parties involved. Our automated system will generate a standard email to you but I wanted to take a few moments and explain it in further detail.
In the event that you have to open a case in the future, please keep in mind the timeframe and procedures.
I realize this wasn't the answer you were looking for, but I hope I've been able to explain things clearly and I thank you in advance for your understanding.
This is eBay?s final decision. No further contacts about this case will be responded to. If you have any further questions about other issues not related to this case, please click ?Contact Us? at the top of any eBay page.
Sincerely, Mike H
eBay Buyer Protection
___________________
The End.
And thus concludes my time on eBay and on these forums. Good Bye.
<< <i>What a crock.......Ebay needs to be sued..... >>
pssst...the story is made up. Notice the complete and utter lack of details or response to any questions directly asked of Allen. Now ask yourself if that's how a person who has REALLY been scammed would behave?
I don't wish to pile on to someone who just lost 2K, but I once added my viewpoint in a thread that before shipping expensive items to any buyer, especially a buyer with low feedback, that a Google search should be done to check out where the buyer lives...and I remember you knocked my advice in that thread. I forget why, I didn't try to find the thread, but perhaps you should have instead listened to some good advice?
For a simple example, if a buyer is living in an apartment and paying say $500 rent, what would they be doing buying a 2K card that they likely cannot afford?...and the opposite if a buyer is living in say a 500K house, there would be much confidence that buyer is legit. Of course there are exceptions to the rules and anything is possible...but for sure, this is a solid formula to help avoid ebay scammers. I have used this formula for many years, and have had great success in avoiding scammers, never once getting stung on a high value item.
Basically, internet type criminals usually move from apartment to apartment, state to state, where they are very difficult if not almost impossible to track down by a seller for further legal action. Even law enforcement can sometimes have a hard time prosecuting these criminals. If someone owns a house, they cannot just easily get up and move, and if evidence is put together properly, legal action can be filed against them in small claims court with a decent chance of success.
Again, there are exceptions to the rules...someone could be renting the house, someone could be just renting a room at the house, and getting fooled is possible thinking this buyer owns the house...but a "deeper" Google search can often uncover this as well in various ways. For example, you have the name of the buyer...usually someone owning a house is involved in other organizations or endeavors which usually show up in a Google search, and a better evaluation can be made of the buyer.
That's it in a nutshell. Please note I didn't post this for you...I couldn't care less if you heed my advice or not...I posted it so others here can hopefully avoid losing money with this easy to use simple formula to help avoid getting robbed on ebay or on other internet type sales. Some here just saved me some good money on an unopened pack scam that I may have been sucked in on - I saved some good money by avoiding that, and this post is a way for me to give something back to the forum.
<< <i>I don't wish to pile on to someone who just lost 2K, but I once added my viewpoint in a thread that before shipping expensive items to any buyer, especially a buyer with low feedback, that a Google search should be done to check out where the buyer lives...and I remember you knocked my advice in that thread. I forget why, I didn't try to find the thread, but perhaps you should have instead listened to some good advice?
For a simple example, if a buyer is living in an apartment and paying say $500 rent, what would they be doing buying a 2K card that they likely cannot afford?...and the opposite if a buyer is living in say a 500K house, there would be much confidence that buyer is legit. Of course there are exceptions to the rules and anything is possible...but for sure, this is a solid formula to help avoid ebay scammers. I have used this formula for many years, and have had great success in avoiding scammers, never once getting stung on a high value item.
Basically, internet type criminals usually move from apartment to apartment, state to state, where they are very difficult if not almost impossible to track down by a seller for further legal action. Even law enforcement can sometimes have a hard time prosecuting these criminals. If someone owns a house, they cannot just easily get up and move, and if evidence is put together properly, legal action can be filed against them in small claims court with a decent chance of success.
Again, there are exceptions to the rules...someone could be renting the house, someone could be just renting a room at the house, and getting fooled is possible thinking this buyer owns the house...but a "deeper" Google search can often uncover this as well in various ways. For example, you have the name of the buyer...usually someone owning a house is involved in other organizations or endeavors which usually show up in a Google search, and a better evaluation can be made of the buyer.
That's it in a nutshell. Please note I didn't post this for you...I couldn't care less if you heed my advice or not...I posted it so others here can hopefully avoid losing money with this easy to use simple formula to help avoid getting robbed on ebay or on other internet type sales. Some here just saved me some good money on an unopened pack scam that I may have been sucked in on - I saved some good money by avoiding that, and this post is a way for me to give something back to the forum. >>
So if the buyer rents, pays you the money, you still don't make the sale and return the money? Or is there a next step?
Ebay ALWAYS favors idiots over regular people. Nuff said.
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This is probably a lesson for eBay sellers. And the lesson is this, for high value items, do not allow bidders with only 5 feedback, which I believe this buyer had. I have definitely seen this on a few auctions where the sellers state they will cancel bids if the buyer feedback is not at a certain level.
<< <i>I don't wish to pile on to someone who just lost 2K, but I once added my viewpoint in a thread that before shipping expensive items to any buyer, especially a buyer with low feedback, that a Google search should be done to check out where the buyer lives...and I remember you knocked my advice in that thread. I forget why, I didn't try to find the thread, but perhaps you should have instead listened to some good advice?
For a simple example, if a buyer is living in an apartment and paying say $500 rent, what would they be doing buying a 2K card that they likely cannot afford?...and the opposite if a buyer is living in say a 500K house, there would be much confidence that buyer is legit. Of course there are exceptions to the rules and anything is possible...but for sure, this is a solid formula to help avoid ebay scammers. I have used this formula for many years, and have had great success in avoiding scammers, never once getting stung on a high value item.
Basically, internet type criminals usually move from apartment to apartment, state to state, where they are very difficult if not almost impossible to track down by a seller for further legal action. Even law enforcement can sometimes have a hard time prosecuting these criminals. If someone owns a house, they cannot just easily get up and move, and if evidence is put together properly, legal action can be filed against them in small claims court with a decent chance of success.
Again, there are exceptions to the rules...someone could be renting the house, someone could be just renting a room at the house, and getting fooled is possible thinking this buyer owns the house...but a "deeper" Google search can often uncover this as well in various ways. For example, you have the name of the buyer...usually someone owning a house is involved in other organizations or endeavors which usually show up in a Google search, and a better evaluation can be made of the buyer.
That's it in a nutshell. Please note I didn't post this for you...I couldn't care less if you heed my advice or not...I posted it so others here can hopefully avoid losing money with this easy to use simple formula to help avoid getting robbed on ebay or on other internet type sales. Some here just saved me some good money on an unopened pack scam that I may have been sucked in on - I saved some good money by avoiding that, and this post is a way for me to give something back to the forum. >>
So if the buyer rents, pays you the money, you still don't make the sale and return the money? Or is there a next step? >>
That's where other factors come into play in a decision...the ebay feedback is one...has the buyer bought high dollar items before?...of course it's tougher now because sellers can't leave negative feedback.
Many times, doing business with an unknown buyer is a judgment call, and making sound business decisions requires gathering as much information as possible. If necessary, I try to gather information on the buyer's occupation...for example the buyer could be a VP of a corporation and is just renting in a city for say a year on a temporary assignment...there are all sorts of scenarios that may come into play. I've even sometimes phoned the buyer to "feel them out" so to speak, interject some hobby questions into the conversation related to what they just bought to see if they are truly a collector or perhaps just looking to scam a high dollar item.
I've sometimes refunded PayPal payments from certain types of buyers who may have been legit...but my premise is this...why take an unnecessary risk on the winning bidder when I can resell the item for perhaps a little bit less money, and be more assured that I'm not being scammed. To me this all just makes good business sense, IE to be careful, it's a cruel world out there when it comes to business, and it's getting worse everyday.
<< <i>I don't wish to pile on to someone who just lost 2K, but I once added my viewpoint in a thread that before shipping expensive items to any buyer, especially a buyer with low feedback, that a Google search should be done to check out where the buyer lives...and I remember you knocked my advice in that thread. I forget why, I didn't try to find the thread, but perhaps you should have instead listened to some good advice?
For a simple example, if a buyer is living in an apartment and paying say $500 rent, what would they be doing buying a 2K card that they likely cannot afford?...and the opposite if a buyer is living in say a 500K house, there would be much confidence that buyer is legit. Of course there are exceptions to the rules and anything is possible...but for sure, this is a solid formula to help avoid ebay scammers. I have used this formula for many years, and have had great success in avoiding scammers, never once getting stung on a high value item.
Basically, internet type criminals usually move from apartment to apartment, state to state, where they are very difficult if not almost impossible to track down by a seller for further legal action. Even law enforcement can sometimes have a hard time prosecuting these criminals. If someone owns a house, they cannot just easily get up and move, and if evidence is put together properly, legal action can be filed against them in small claims court with a decent chance of success.
Again, there are exceptions to the rules...someone could be renting the house, someone could be just renting a room at the house, and getting fooled is possible thinking this buyer owns the house...but a "deeper" Google search can often uncover this as well in various ways. For example, you have the name of the buyer...usually someone owning a house is involved in other organizations or endeavors which usually show up in a Google search, and a better evaluation can be made of the buyer.
That's it in a nutshell. Please note I didn't post this for you...I couldn't care less if you heed my advice or not...I posted it so others here can hopefully avoid losing money with this easy to use simple formula to help avoid getting robbed on ebay or on other internet type sales. Some here just saved me some good money on an unopened pack scam that I may have been sucked in on - I saved some good money by avoiding that, and this post is a way for me to give something back to the forum. >>
So if the buyer rents, pays you the money, you still don't make the sale and return the money? Or is there a next step? >>
That's where other factors come into play in a decision...the ebay feedback is one...has the buyer bought high dollar items before?...of course it's tougher now because sellers can't leave negative feedback.
Many times, doing business with an unknown buyer is a judgment call, and making sound business decisions requires gathering as much information as possible. If necessary, I try to gather information on the buyer's occupation...for example the buyer could be a VP of a corporation and is just renting in a city for say a year on a temporary assignment...there are all sorts of scenarios that may come into play. I've even sometimes phoned the buyer to "feel them out" so to speak, interject some hobby questions into the conversation related to what they just bought to see if they are truly a collector or perhaps just looking to scam a high dollar item.
I've sometimes refunded PayPal payments from certain types of buyers who may have been legit...but my premise is this...why take an unnecessary risk on the winning bidder when I can resell the item for perhaps a little bit less money, and be more assured that I'm not being scammed. To me this all just makes good business sense, IE to be careful, it's a cruel world out there when it comes to business, and it's getting worse everyday. >>
That's fine to go to these extra steps to 'clear' potential buyers, but how do you fend off last second snipers in an auction? Or if you have an ebay store with mostly BIN's? As soon as someone hits the BIN, ebay considers them the winning bidder, and trusts the seller to actually fulfill their obligation to complete the transaction in good faith.
What you risk by doing this extra layer of screening is you can open yourself (the seller) up to numerous negative feedbacks from potential buyers. Get too many negs as a seller or marks against your selling account for not delivering the goods and you get suspended or booted off of ebay completely.
I really don't think there's any fool proof way to screen out the scammers. Sometimes they just find you.
I'm troubled that Allen, a longtime poster here, hasn't outed the scammers names on his two threads where he says he got screwed by ebay/paypal. Either these stories/scenario's are made up or he's hiding the crooks identities for some strange reason.
Allen, if you want to keep your ebay id anonymous to these boards, just post the scammer's real name. At least then his name will come up if someone searches these boards.
He's probably changed ebay id's a few times since this happened anyway.
<< <i>I don't wish to pile on to someone who just lost 2K, but I once added my viewpoint in a thread that before shipping expensive items to any buyer, especially a buyer with low feedback, that a Google search should be done to check out where the buyer lives...and I remember you knocked my advice in that thread. I forget why, I didn't try to find the thread, but perhaps you should have instead listened to some good advice?
For a simple example, if a buyer is living in an apartment and paying say $500 rent, what would they be doing buying a 2K card that they likely cannot afford?...and the opposite if a buyer is living in say a 500K house, there would be much confidence that buyer is legit. Of course there are exceptions to the rules and anything is possible...but for sure, this is a solid formula to help avoid ebay scammers. I have used this formula for many years, and have had great success in avoiding scammers, never once getting stung on a high value item.
Basically, internet type criminals usually move from apartment to apartment, state to state, where they are very difficult if not almost impossible to track down by a seller for further legal action. Even law enforcement can sometimes have a hard time prosecuting these criminals. If someone owns a house, they cannot just easily get up and move, and if evidence is put together properly, legal action can be filed against them in small claims court with a decent chance of success.
Again, there are exceptions to the rules...someone could be renting the house, someone could be just renting a room at the house, and getting fooled is possible thinking this buyer owns the house...but a "deeper" Google search can often uncover this as well in various ways. For example, you have the name of the buyer...usually someone owning a house is involved in other organizations or endeavors which usually show up in a Google search, and a better evaluation can be made of the buyer.
That's it in a nutshell. Please note I didn't post this for you...I couldn't care less if you heed my advice or not...I posted it so others here can hopefully avoid losing money with this easy to use simple formula to help avoid getting robbed on ebay or on other internet type sales. Some here just saved me some good money on an unopened pack scam that I may have been sucked in on - I saved some good money by avoiding that, and this post is a way for me to give something back to the forum. >>
So if the buyer rents, pays you the money, you still don't make the sale and return the money? Or is there a next step? >>
That's where other factors come into play in a decision...the ebay feedback is one...has the buyer bought high dollar items before?...of course it's tougher now because sellers can't leave negative feedback.
Many times, doing business with an unknown buyer is a judgment call, and making sound business decisions requires gathering as much information as possible. If necessary, I try to gather information on the buyer's occupation...for example the buyer could be a VP of a corporation and is just renting in a city for say a year on a temporary assignment...there are all sorts of scenarios that may come into play. I've even sometimes phoned the buyer to "feel them out" so to speak, interject some hobby questions into the conversation related to what they just bought to see if they are truly a collector or perhaps just looking to scam a high dollar item.
I've sometimes refunded PayPal payments from certain types of buyers who may have been legit...but my premise is this...why take an unnecessary risk on the winning bidder when I can resell the item for perhaps a little bit less money, and be more assured that I'm not being scammed. To me this all just makes good business sense, IE to be careful, it's a cruel world out there when it comes to business, and it's getting worse everyday. >>
That's fine to go to these extra steps to 'clear' potential buyers, but how do you fend off last second snipers in an auction? Or if you have an ebay store with mostly BIN's? As soon as someone hits the BIN, ebay considers them the winning bidder, and trusts the seller to actually fulfill their obligation to complete the transaction in good faith.
What you risk by doing this extra layer of screening is you can open yourself (the seller) up to numerous negative feedbacks from potential buyers. Get too many negs as a seller or marks against your selling account for not delivering the goods and you get suspended or booted off of ebay completely.
I really don't think there's any fool proof way to screen out the scammers. Sometimes they just find you.
I'm troubled that Allen, a longtime poster here, hasn't outed the scammers names on his two threads where he says he got screwed by ebay/paypal. Either these stories/scenario's are made up or he's hiding the crooks identities for some strange reason. >>
You're right - there is no "fool proof" way...but in business the thing you wanna do is reduce the chances of getting scammed to as low as possible. For me, the "phone call" is the clincher if I'm worried about a possible scammer. I figure if I can't get hold of the buyer by phone, then if I have to pursue legal action I wouldn't be successful...and when I do get hold of the buyer by phone, as mentioned, I ask certain questions to determine who they are.
As far as the negs, I'll take a neg anyday rather than losing say 2K, but yes you're correct that this strategy has to be weighed against potential problems with the ebay account.
The old business adage is that a sale isn't complete until you get paid, and that is true...but on ebay a sale isn't really complete until the 45 day PayPal period expires to file a complaint. IE: Just because ya receive a PayPal payment doesn't mean yet the sale is complete because in my view, I'm not technically paid until the 45 day period expires for a buyer to file a complaint...so...just because I receive a PayPal payment doesn't mean I should stop being vigilant towards a possible scam.
The bottom line...after doing all this and taking the usual business precautions, if I don't feel comfortable with a transaction, then I refund the PayPal payment. So far, it's worked out well.
Just because someone does not want to out an ebayer, or answer inquisitive questions does not mean that he made up a story.
Just last week someone outed an ebayer and someone here notified that person. This was during the time where a negative could have been given etc. The poster was emailed and accused of trash talking, maybe Allen was trying not to have that happen to him, perhaps all he wanted to do was vent and tell the forum of his situation. I doubt very much that he made it up, I'm 99% sure.
The only thing I'm 100% sure of is that some people here have no idea, lack facts and jump to conclusions.
Myself included at times btw.
Allen or anyone for that matter has no obligation to answer questions or out anyone if they choose not to.
<< <i>Notice the complete and utter lack of details >>
I guess you missed Allen's post on page 4.
edited to add:
IMO Allen did not out the scammer nor did he provide all the details because he had a case pending and in his mind
it was the tactful thing to do. Then when he was constantly barraged with people asking him for more info and then claim he was FOS
he said eff it. I don't blame him. Many here, if they had 2k at stake would prolly do the same thing! The mob mentality took over and each post was
taken as gospel even if the poster was simply guessing. Allen had his reasons for not outting the perp and had his reasons for telling us what was going on.
I followed this thread for awhile. I never replied to it until now. In this case what good will outing the ID that had less the 10 feedback be? Obviously the scam artist has made off with the card, money, and has probably switched to a new ID by now. If I was out of a 2,000 dollar card and out 2,000 dollars on top of it I would be really done with the whole collecting scene. I wish someone would create a better place. One that would rock ebay/paypal to their core and send them to trash where they belong. I am sorry to hear this happened.
<< <i>And thus concludes my time on eBay and on these forums. Good Bye. >>
Well if you're done with ebay and this board, and I assume you must have saved a screen shot of the auction page, why not post the auction and the scammer's ID to prove us wrong and presumptuous?..
before the changes on ebay i used to ONLY accept Postal money orders so i wouldnt have to deal with paypal. I never had any problems. Of course ebay went to paypal only because more money in their pocket.
Comments
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=11&threadid=712682
Lots of advice and dozens of requests for the user ID of the supposed scammer and OP doesn't have the decency to provide the info. Odd.
and the buyer left feedback, it is over...
your gripe is now with ebay...
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<< <i>If this did happen...
and the buyer left feedback, it is over...
your gripe is now with ebay... >>
//////////////////////
To clarify...........
Feedback is NEVER dispositive to a buyer's EBAY/PP claim.
It is good evidence in court, but means little/nothing to EBAY/PP.
I'm drowning in a pool of tears over here.
Paypal is just as bad as ebay. When a buyer files a snad charge, even if there is no wrongdoing on part of the seller, paypal will usually rule in favor of the scamster buyer.
In a case like this it will not likely do any good to go to the local PD. They will just say that it is a civil matter.
<< <i>Apparently I am the bad guy now. I missed that part. Sorry for the confusion. >>
Well you want advice and help from people here, but you don't seem at all interested in protecting or helping us from being scammed by the same guy.
I wonder if anyone else has sent the same buyer a card since this thread started. Someone that might have read this thread and could have been warned about the scammer. You just ignore people's question's when the answers might even help you win a case if others are effected.
Sorry for your troubles. I'd feel really bad if I knew this was even real???
<< <i>Apparently I am the bad guy now. I missed that part. Sorry for the confusion. >>
Hey, look at it this way: at least you took the time to respond to all the questions people are asking you in this thread.
Oh wait...
Tabe
<< <i>Apparently I am the bad guy now. I missed that part. Sorry for the confusion. >>
Why not provide scans of the before and after card, and the ebay ID of the scammer. What are we missing here Allen that would prevent you from doing that?
<< <i>
<< <i>Apparently I am the bad guy now. I missed that part. Sorry for the confusion. >>
Why not provide scans of the before and after card, and the ebay ID of the scammer. What are we missing here Allen that would prevent you from doing that? >>
damn.
Steve
<< <i>
<< <i>Apparently I am the bad guy now. I missed that part. Sorry for the confusion. >>
Why not provide scans of the before and after card, and the ebay ID of the scammer. What are we missing here Allen that would prevent you from doing that? >>
Apparently he's the bad guy. We missed that part. Apologies have been added for our confusion.
I'm now calling BS
Nothing personal here, 1st time Ive read this post... And I dont know most of you personally.
but OP Allen dropped the ball 1/2 way home.
I was ready to add some advise ... if I got some REAL info from the OP beside a (one sided, no proof) story of heartache.
A couple of the later comments are wishy washy at best, ... I personally would happily provide all the info anyone wanted in this case if it happened to me.
A so called $2K card usually has a few scans behind it..... you should have been happy to provide info on what type of "card" this was, a few before scans, item#, after scans, winner ID, etc.
Heck (if true) maybe the winner is trying to flip the real card and thats all the proof you need (tying the true card to the scammer). You would have a few hundred scouts out there looking around trying to help out a fellow PSA Board Member....... But as it is right now Many will only be thinking this is one side of a story. Its not like you overlooked the pleas for more Real info, it actually became the subject at the end.
Why hide basic Real info?? Makes no sense at all, bigtime
I have seen similar problems with cards 10+X the value and the owners will usually provide this basic info.
There are a few attorneys who view these message boards BTW
All I can say is Yes someone got scammed at one point. It might be us for all I know
The Main Title of this post, alone, is very suspicious especially since you predicted the conclusion
aloha
Just tell us that.
If someone asked me to show an auction number or scans and I did not want to I'd simply say "I'd rather not at this time'
That way I wouldn't become the bad guy, cuz you ain't never gonna see a bad guy like this bad guy ever again.
Cuz I always tell the truth......even when I lie.
Steve
Allen, this is a work of fiction isnt it?
Letter One- sent after my final appeal was denied.
To Whom It May Concern:
I received notice that I had a dispute filed against me in the eBay
Resolution Center on February 21, 2010. The information the buyer
provided was not accurate and I saw no way I would be able to resolve
this issue with the buyer. I called eBay and was transferred to eBay
Resolution Center Customer Support. I explained the situation and the
customer service representative told me that since the buyer left
feedback saying the item was "Perfect" she was going to close the
dispute in my favor. This did not happen and the dispute only reflected
that the case was escalated to eBay Customer Support. I called again and
the customer service representative informed me that the representative
to whom I spoke with previously had not closed the case or entered any
information. I asked to speak with the representative I had spoken to
previously and was informed I could not be transferred to them and they
it did not work that way.
I waited for eBay Customer Support to contact me within 48 hours as my
case said they would. Four days later I received a standard email
telling me that I had lost the dispute. The buyer had already shipped me
a different item so they would have a confirmation number if they had a
chance to get a refund. I made several more attempts in getting help
from customer service and was told that due to the dollar amount of the
transaction my case had been assigned a specialist who would have to
handle it. Twice I left my cell phone number and was assured they
emailed him and he would be calling me that same day. I was never
called.
Now I have eBay telling me they refunded this buyer and I am to
reimburse eBay. Since the item returned to me is not the original item
that I shipped to the buyer I will be out both the original item and
$2,000.00. I followed all of the rules and I have been left holding the
bag because one customer service representative gave me inaccurate
information telling me they would close the case initially and another
who would not contact me despite several pleas.
I appealed this case in the eBay Resolution Center and received an email
stating the appeal was denied. When I go to the case in the resolution
center it still says that I am awaiting a response and should have one
in 48 hours, it has been weeks and still no response. I would like to
know what kind of documentation or police reports eBay needs to review
this case and fix this. I tried many times to contact a case specialist
and I could not get a reply. I hope this letter can reach someone who
can help me and help to improve eBay Customer Service.
I have been on eBay since 1998 and I have seen many things change for
better and worse. I understand that eBay is trying to make it safe for
the buyers, but this is a case of an unscrupulous buyer scamming an
honest seller. I hope eBay will consider overturning the decision of
this case.
Thank You for your time and consideration
-----------------------------------------------------------
eBay response:
Thank you for writing eBay in regard to your case.
I will be happy to answer your questions about this, but before I
do I would like to apologize for the time that it has taken us to get
back with you.
I am very sorry that you have had to deal with this. Unfortunately
because your buyer is stating that they received a different item than
they purchased we had no choice, but to find in the buyers favor. This
is the same reason that the appeal was denied. At this point, I would
contact the local authorities so that they can make a proper
investigation as to what to do. I am very sorry that we are unable to
assist you with this further and hope that someone can help clear this
up for you.
I understand your frustration regarding this matter and apologize for
the inconvenience it caused you.
Sincerely,
Julianne H.
eBay Customer Support
-----------------------------------
I sent this response:
I hope someone at eBay can see the problem here. The buyer said the item
was "not as described" and eBay sided with a new buyer with a feedback
score of five over a 12 year seller. Since eBay is claiming that I owe
them $2,000.00 and you allowed the buyer to ship me an item that is
counterfeit and worthless I am currently out the item AND the money eBay
is claiming I owe. If I contact the authorities and file a lawsuit
against the buyer and the courts award me the full amount I would still
be out the complete value of the item since eBay wants the money. I need
to know what I need to do to get eBay to remove this false charge.
------------------------------------
eBay response:
**DO NOT REPLY ? Replies to this email cannot be responded to. This
email was intended to be a 1-way communication to inform you of the
outcome of your appeal.**
Thank you for contacting eBay in regard to your item.
I understand how frustrating this situation may have been for you and I
can certainly appreciate your concern with the outcome of this case.
At this time, we are unable to grant your appeal as it has been over 45
days since our decision was made. We understand some situations can
prevent a timely response but please be aware that the time frame is for
the benefit of both parties involved. Our automated system will generate
a standard email to you but I wanted to take a few moments and explain
it in further detail.
In the event that you have to open a case in the future, please keep in
mind the timeframe and procedures.
I realize this wasn't the answer you were looking for, but I hope I've
been able to explain things clearly and I thank you in advance for your
understanding.
This is eBay?s final decision. No further contacts about this case will
be responded to. If you have any further questions about other issues
not related to this case, please click ?Contact Us? at the top of any
eBay page.
Sincerely,
Mike H
eBay Buyer Protection
___________________
The End.
And thus concludes my time on eBay and on these forums. Good Bye.
Or are you following a strict "no snitching" policy?
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
<< <i>What a crock.......Ebay needs to be sued..... >>
pssst...the story is made up. Notice the complete and utter lack of details or response to any questions directly asked of Allen. Now ask yourself if that's how a person who has REALLY been scammed would behave?
Tabe
For a simple example, if a buyer is living in an apartment and paying say $500 rent, what would they be doing buying a 2K card that they likely cannot afford?...and the opposite if a buyer is living in say a 500K house, there would be much confidence that buyer is legit. Of course there are exceptions to the rules and anything is possible...but for sure, this is a solid formula to help avoid ebay scammers. I have used this formula for many years, and have had great success in avoiding scammers, never once getting stung on a high value item.
Basically, internet type criminals usually move from apartment to apartment, state to state, where they are very difficult if not almost impossible to track down by a seller for further legal action. Even law enforcement can sometimes have a hard time prosecuting these criminals. If someone owns a house, they cannot just easily get up and move, and if evidence is put together properly, legal action can be filed against them in small claims court with a decent chance of success.
Again, there are exceptions to the rules...someone could be renting the house, someone could be just renting a room at the house, and getting fooled is possible thinking this buyer owns the house...but a "deeper" Google search can often uncover this as well in various ways. For example, you have the name of the buyer...usually someone owning a house is involved in other organizations or endeavors which usually show up in a Google search, and a better evaluation can be made of the buyer.
That's it in a nutshell. Please note I didn't post this for you...I couldn't care less if you heed my advice or not...I posted it so others here can hopefully avoid losing money with this easy to use simple formula to help avoid getting robbed on ebay or on other internet type sales. Some here just saved me some good money on an unopened pack scam that I may have been sucked in on - I saved some good money by avoiding that, and this post is a way for me to give something back to the forum.
<< <i>I don't wish to pile on to someone who just lost 2K, but I once added my viewpoint in a thread that before shipping expensive items to any buyer, especially a buyer with low feedback, that a Google search should be done to check out where the buyer lives...and I remember you knocked my advice in that thread. I forget why, I didn't try to find the thread, but perhaps you should have instead listened to some good advice?
For a simple example, if a buyer is living in an apartment and paying say $500 rent, what would they be doing buying a 2K card that they likely cannot afford?...and the opposite if a buyer is living in say a 500K house, there would be much confidence that buyer is legit. Of course there are exceptions to the rules and anything is possible...but for sure, this is a solid formula to help avoid ebay scammers. I have used this formula for many years, and have had great success in avoiding scammers, never once getting stung on a high value item.
Basically, internet type criminals usually move from apartment to apartment, state to state, where they are very difficult if not almost impossible to track down by a seller for further legal action. Even law enforcement can sometimes have a hard time prosecuting these criminals. If someone owns a house, they cannot just easily get up and move, and if evidence is put together properly, legal action can be filed against them in small claims court with a decent chance of success.
Again, there are exceptions to the rules...someone could be renting the house, someone could be just renting a room at the house, and getting fooled is possible thinking this buyer owns the house...but a "deeper" Google search can often uncover this as well in various ways. For example, you have the name of the buyer...usually someone owning a house is involved in other organizations or endeavors which usually show up in a Google search, and a better evaluation can be made of the buyer.
That's it in a nutshell. Please note I didn't post this for you...I couldn't care less if you heed my advice or not...I posted it so others here can hopefully avoid losing money with this easy to use simple formula to help avoid getting robbed on ebay or on other internet type sales. Some here just saved me some good money on an unopened pack scam that I may have been sucked in on - I saved some good money by avoiding that, and this post is a way for me to give something back to the forum. >>
So if the buyer rents, pays you the money, you still don't make the sale and return the money? Or is there a next step?
Or Regional Canadian Baseball Issues?
Come be a contributor to the OPC Baseball Wiki. It's free and easy!
OPeeChee.Wikispaces.Com
Lou Gehrig Master Set
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<< <i>
<< <i>I don't wish to pile on to someone who just lost 2K, but I once added my viewpoint in a thread that before shipping expensive items to any buyer, especially a buyer with low feedback, that a Google search should be done to check out where the buyer lives...and I remember you knocked my advice in that thread. I forget why, I didn't try to find the thread, but perhaps you should have instead listened to some good advice?
For a simple example, if a buyer is living in an apartment and paying say $500 rent, what would they be doing buying a 2K card that they likely cannot afford?...and the opposite if a buyer is living in say a 500K house, there would be much confidence that buyer is legit. Of course there are exceptions to the rules and anything is possible...but for sure, this is a solid formula to help avoid ebay scammers. I have used this formula for many years, and have had great success in avoiding scammers, never once getting stung on a high value item.
Basically, internet type criminals usually move from apartment to apartment, state to state, where they are very difficult if not almost impossible to track down by a seller for further legal action. Even law enforcement can sometimes have a hard time prosecuting these criminals. If someone owns a house, they cannot just easily get up and move, and if evidence is put together properly, legal action can be filed against them in small claims court with a decent chance of success.
Again, there are exceptions to the rules...someone could be renting the house, someone could be just renting a room at the house, and getting fooled is possible thinking this buyer owns the house...but a "deeper" Google search can often uncover this as well in various ways. For example, you have the name of the buyer...usually someone owning a house is involved in other organizations or endeavors which usually show up in a Google search, and a better evaluation can be made of the buyer.
That's it in a nutshell. Please note I didn't post this for you...I couldn't care less if you heed my advice or not...I posted it so others here can hopefully avoid losing money with this easy to use simple formula to help avoid getting robbed on ebay or on other internet type sales. Some here just saved me some good money on an unopened pack scam that I may have been sucked in on - I saved some good money by avoiding that, and this post is a way for me to give something back to the forum. >>
So if the buyer rents, pays you the money, you still don't make the sale and return the money? Or is there a next step? >>
That's where other factors come into play in a decision...the ebay feedback is one...has the buyer bought high dollar items before?...of course it's tougher now because sellers can't leave negative feedback.
Many times, doing business with an unknown buyer is a judgment call, and making sound business decisions requires gathering as much information as possible. If necessary, I try to gather information on the buyer's occupation...for example the buyer could be a VP of a corporation and is just renting in a city for say a year on a temporary assignment...there are all sorts of scenarios that may come into play. I've even sometimes phoned the buyer to "feel them out" so to speak, interject some hobby questions into the conversation related to what they just bought to see if they are truly a collector or perhaps just looking to scam a high dollar item.
I've sometimes refunded PayPal payments from certain types of buyers who may have been legit...but my premise is this...why take an unnecessary risk on the winning bidder when I can resell the item for perhaps a little bit less money, and be more assured that I'm not being scammed. To me this all just makes good business sense, IE to be careful, it's a cruel world out there when it comes to business, and it's getting worse everyday.
<< <i>pssst...the story is made up. >>
And you know this for certain, HOW?
Steve
<< <i>
<< <i>pssst...the story is made up. >>
And you know this for certain, HOW?
Steve >>
The refusal to answer any direct questions or provide even one iota of proof to back up his story.
100% certainty? Nah, just 98%.
Tabe
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I don't wish to pile on to someone who just lost 2K, but I once added my viewpoint in a thread that before shipping expensive items to any buyer, especially a buyer with low feedback, that a Google search should be done to check out where the buyer lives...and I remember you knocked my advice in that thread. I forget why, I didn't try to find the thread, but perhaps you should have instead listened to some good advice?
For a simple example, if a buyer is living in an apartment and paying say $500 rent, what would they be doing buying a 2K card that they likely cannot afford?...and the opposite if a buyer is living in say a 500K house, there would be much confidence that buyer is legit. Of course there are exceptions to the rules and anything is possible...but for sure, this is a solid formula to help avoid ebay scammers. I have used this formula for many years, and have had great success in avoiding scammers, never once getting stung on a high value item.
Basically, internet type criminals usually move from apartment to apartment, state to state, where they are very difficult if not almost impossible to track down by a seller for further legal action. Even law enforcement can sometimes have a hard time prosecuting these criminals. If someone owns a house, they cannot just easily get up and move, and if evidence is put together properly, legal action can be filed against them in small claims court with a decent chance of success.
Again, there are exceptions to the rules...someone could be renting the house, someone could be just renting a room at the house, and getting fooled is possible thinking this buyer owns the house...but a "deeper" Google search can often uncover this as well in various ways. For example, you have the name of the buyer...usually someone owning a house is involved in other organizations or endeavors which usually show up in a Google search, and a better evaluation can be made of the buyer.
That's it in a nutshell. Please note I didn't post this for you...I couldn't care less if you heed my advice or not...I posted it so others here can hopefully avoid losing money with this easy to use simple formula to help avoid getting robbed on ebay or on other internet type sales. Some here just saved me some good money on an unopened pack scam that I may have been sucked in on - I saved some good money by avoiding that, and this post is a way for me to give something back to the forum. >>
So if the buyer rents, pays you the money, you still don't make the sale and return the money? Or is there a next step? >>
That's where other factors come into play in a decision...the ebay feedback is one...has the buyer bought high dollar items before?...of course it's tougher now because sellers can't leave negative feedback.
Many times, doing business with an unknown buyer is a judgment call, and making sound business decisions requires gathering as much information as possible. If necessary, I try to gather information on the buyer's occupation...for example the buyer could be a VP of a corporation and is just renting in a city for say a year on a temporary assignment...there are all sorts of scenarios that may come into play. I've even sometimes phoned the buyer to "feel them out" so to speak, interject some hobby questions into the conversation related to what they just bought to see if they are truly a collector or perhaps just looking to scam a high dollar item.
I've sometimes refunded PayPal payments from certain types of buyers who may have been legit...but my premise is this...why take an unnecessary risk on the winning bidder when I can resell the item for perhaps a little bit less money, and be more assured that I'm not being scammed. To me this all just makes good business sense, IE to be careful, it's a cruel world out there when it comes to business, and it's getting worse everyday. >>
That's fine to go to these extra steps to 'clear' potential buyers, but how do you fend off last second snipers in an auction? Or if you have an ebay store with mostly BIN's? As soon as someone hits the BIN, ebay considers them the winning bidder, and trusts the seller to actually fulfill their obligation to complete the transaction in good faith.
What you risk by doing this extra layer of screening is you can open yourself (the seller) up to numerous negative feedbacks from potential buyers. Get too many negs as a seller or marks against your selling account for not delivering the goods and you get suspended or booted off of ebay completely.
I really don't think there's any fool proof way to screen out the scammers. Sometimes they just find you.
I'm troubled that Allen, a longtime poster here, hasn't outed the scammers names on his two threads where he says he got screwed by ebay/paypal. Either these stories/scenario's are made up or he's hiding the crooks identities for some strange reason.
He's probably changed ebay id's a few times since this happened anyway.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I don't wish to pile on to someone who just lost 2K, but I once added my viewpoint in a thread that before shipping expensive items to any buyer, especially a buyer with low feedback, that a Google search should be done to check out where the buyer lives...and I remember you knocked my advice in that thread. I forget why, I didn't try to find the thread, but perhaps you should have instead listened to some good advice?
For a simple example, if a buyer is living in an apartment and paying say $500 rent, what would they be doing buying a 2K card that they likely cannot afford?...and the opposite if a buyer is living in say a 500K house, there would be much confidence that buyer is legit. Of course there are exceptions to the rules and anything is possible...but for sure, this is a solid formula to help avoid ebay scammers. I have used this formula for many years, and have had great success in avoiding scammers, never once getting stung on a high value item.
Basically, internet type criminals usually move from apartment to apartment, state to state, where they are very difficult if not almost impossible to track down by a seller for further legal action. Even law enforcement can sometimes have a hard time prosecuting these criminals. If someone owns a house, they cannot just easily get up and move, and if evidence is put together properly, legal action can be filed against them in small claims court with a decent chance of success.
Again, there are exceptions to the rules...someone could be renting the house, someone could be just renting a room at the house, and getting fooled is possible thinking this buyer owns the house...but a "deeper" Google search can often uncover this as well in various ways. For example, you have the name of the buyer...usually someone owning a house is involved in other organizations or endeavors which usually show up in a Google search, and a better evaluation can be made of the buyer.
That's it in a nutshell. Please note I didn't post this for you...I couldn't care less if you heed my advice or not...I posted it so others here can hopefully avoid losing money with this easy to use simple formula to help avoid getting robbed on ebay or on other internet type sales. Some here just saved me some good money on an unopened pack scam that I may have been sucked in on - I saved some good money by avoiding that, and this post is a way for me to give something back to the forum. >>
So if the buyer rents, pays you the money, you still don't make the sale and return the money? Or is there a next step? >>
That's where other factors come into play in a decision...the ebay feedback is one...has the buyer bought high dollar items before?...of course it's tougher now because sellers can't leave negative feedback.
Many times, doing business with an unknown buyer is a judgment call, and making sound business decisions requires gathering as much information as possible. If necessary, I try to gather information on the buyer's occupation...for example the buyer could be a VP of a corporation and is just renting in a city for say a year on a temporary assignment...there are all sorts of scenarios that may come into play. I've even sometimes phoned the buyer to "feel them out" so to speak, interject some hobby questions into the conversation related to what they just bought to see if they are truly a collector or perhaps just looking to scam a high dollar item.
I've sometimes refunded PayPal payments from certain types of buyers who may have been legit...but my premise is this...why take an unnecessary risk on the winning bidder when I can resell the item for perhaps a little bit less money, and be more assured that I'm not being scammed. To me this all just makes good business sense, IE to be careful, it's a cruel world out there when it comes to business, and it's getting worse everyday. >>
That's fine to go to these extra steps to 'clear' potential buyers, but how do you fend off last second snipers in an auction? Or if you have an ebay store with mostly BIN's? As soon as someone hits the BIN, ebay considers them the winning bidder, and trusts the seller to actually fulfill their obligation to complete the transaction in good faith.
What you risk by doing this extra layer of screening is you can open yourself (the seller) up to numerous negative feedbacks from potential buyers. Get too many negs as a seller or marks against your selling account for not delivering the goods and you get suspended or booted off of ebay completely.
I really don't think there's any fool proof way to screen out the scammers. Sometimes they just find you.
I'm troubled that Allen, a longtime poster here, hasn't outed the scammers names on his two threads where he says he got screwed by ebay/paypal. Either these stories/scenario's are made up or he's hiding the crooks identities for some strange reason. >>
You're right - there is no "fool proof" way...but in business the thing you wanna do is reduce the chances of getting scammed to as low as possible. For me, the "phone call" is the clincher if I'm worried about a possible scammer. I figure if I can't get hold of the buyer by phone, then if I have to pursue legal action I wouldn't be successful...and when I do get hold of the buyer by phone, as mentioned, I ask certain questions to determine who they are.
As far as the negs, I'll take a neg anyday rather than losing say 2K, but yes you're correct that this strategy has to be weighed against potential problems with the ebay account.
The old business adage is that a sale isn't complete until you get paid, and that is true...but on ebay a sale isn't really complete until the 45 day PayPal period expires to file a complaint. IE: Just because ya receive a PayPal payment doesn't mean yet the sale is complete because in my view, I'm not technically paid until the 45 day period expires for a buyer to file a complaint...so...just because I receive a PayPal payment doesn't mean I should stop being vigilant towards a possible scam.
The bottom line...after doing all this and taking the usual business precautions, if I don't feel comfortable with a transaction, then I refund the PayPal payment. So far, it's worked out well.
Just because someone does not want to out an ebayer, or answer inquisitive questions does not mean that he made up
a story.
Just last week someone outed an ebayer and someone here notified that person. This was during the time where a negative
could have been given etc. The poster was emailed and accused of trash talking, maybe Allen was trying not to have that happen to him, perhaps
all he wanted to do was vent and tell the forum of his situation. I doubt very much that he made it up, I'm 99% sure.
The only thing I'm 100% sure of is that some people here have no idea, lack facts and jump to conclusions.
Myself included at times btw.
Allen or anyone for that matter has no obligation to answer questions or out anyone if they choose not to.
Steve
<< <i>Notice the complete and utter lack of details >>
I guess you missed Allen's post on page 4.
edited to add:
IMO Allen did not out the scammer nor did he provide all the details because he had a case pending and in his mind
it was the tactful thing to do. Then when he was constantly barraged with people asking him for more info and then claim he was FOS
he said eff it. I don't blame him. Many here, if they had 2k at stake would prolly do the same thing! The mob mentality took over and each post was
taken as gospel even if the poster was simply guessing. Allen had his reasons for not outting the perp and had his reasons for telling us what was going on.
I doubt very much that he made this up.
Steve
<< <i>And thus concludes my time on eBay and on these forums. Good Bye. >>
Well if you're done with ebay and this board, and I assume you must have saved a screen shot of the auction page, why not post the auction and the scammer's ID to prove us wrong and presumptuous?..
Thought so... bye.
"...Allen had his reasons for not outing the perp and had his reasons for telling us what was going on.
I doubt very much that he made this up. ..."
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
I agree.
On some occasions, it has been shown to be unwise to
post selling IDs on this board.
Once a bad buyer is outed, the seller's ID is easily found.
if it walks like a duck...
and if other threads were similar...
someone having some fun...
naivety comes to mind...
where is Waldo?
nuff said...
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