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Probably going to get screwed on eBay.
Allen
Posts: 7,165 ✭✭✭
Sold a graded card for about $2,000.00 sent the card Express Mail Insured. Buyer got the card, left positive feedback. The next day the buyer sends me a scan of what looks like a tampered with holder saying the card has two rounded corners that were not shown in the scan and they want a partial or full refund. I am pretty sure the holder has been cracked and the card switched with a photocopy they are going to return. I call eBay Customer Support, finally get someone in that department, explain the scenario, she tells me that since the buyer left positive feedback saying that the item was perfect she was going to go ahead and close the claim. Well it still shows the claim as open and escalated to eBay for a decision a day later. I call and talk to someone else in the department and she tells me that there are no notes about the item and that it was only escalated to eBay for a decision. I ask if I can speak with the service rep whom I spoke with before and she tells me that she can't do that and doesn't know if there is someone who works their by that name. I am certain eBay is going to say the buyer can return the item for a full refund and the buyer will send me a fake card in a busted holder and get $2,000 back while keeping the card. I am pretty ticked at this point.
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Comments
~WalterSobchak
<< <i>Do you have a no return policy on graded cards? If so, the buyer should not be able to file a SNAD, as long as the card you showed in the scan is what he got. >>
I do have it as no returns, but eBay has a new policy that the customer is never wrong. NO MATTER WHAT.
<< <i>I believe that storm will have some advice, but I recall in the past he mentions opening the item up in front of a postal employee. >>
This was going to be my advice. Videotaping your opening the package might be a good idea as well.
My small collection
Want List:
'61 Topps Roy Campanella in PSA 5-7
Cardinal T206 cards
Adam Wainwright GU Jersey
<< <i>I believe that storm will have some advice, but I recall in the past he mentions opening the item up in front of a postal employee. >>
I don't see how that will help. If I'm understanding right, the buyer is saying they received a damaged holder with a swapped card inside. If the OP has a postmaster watch him open it, and it has a counterfeit card or a picture or whatever, the buyer will agree that it's there, saying it's what the OP shipped to them.
<< <i><< I believe that storm will have some advice, but I recall in the past he mentions opening the item up in front of a postal employee. >> >>
There's a good chance that what comes back will be something other than the replacement. It will either be just the cracked slab, or a common of some other sort if it is even a card at all. When Bobby had his issue he only got empty slabs back and won his case easily, by having the PO employee as a witness. It can't hurt and it's free.
Hammer on ebay and Paypal people if necessary. If you don't give up they probably will. If the buyer has any other complaints etc. they may see a pattern and rule for you too. Just be sure you didn't do anything wrong. If you really sent a good card in an untampered holder then you should be fine. It may take some effort, but you should prevail. If the holder "was cracked in shipping etc.", you have the postal insurance to fall back on. Just don't try to fool the PO, you want them on your side.
~WalterSobchak
Eeeewwwwwwww ....... Another EBAY scammer !
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You can win a SNAD claim, but it is tough and you would/might need paid help to do it.
SNAD Definition
What is Significantly Not as Described (SNAD)?
An item is Significantly Not as Described if it is materially different than what the seller described in the item listing. Here are some examples:
You received a completely different item. Example: You purchased a book and received a DVD or an empty box.
The condition of the item was misrepresented. Example: The listing said "new" and the item was used.
The item was advertised as authentic but is not authentic.
The item is missing major parts or features which were not disclosed in the listing.
You purchased three items from a seller but only received two.
The item was damaged during shipment.
An item is not Significantly Not as Described if it is materially similar to the seller’s item listing description. Here are some examples:
The defect in the item was correctly described by the seller.
The item was properly described but you didn't want it after you received it.
The item was properly described but did not meet your expectations.
The item has minor scratches and was listed as used condition.
.........................................................
Having the PO clerk watch you open the package won't help too much,
unless there is a rock or an empty slab in the package. If there is a fake
card in a cracked slab, you could have the clerk sign a statement to that
effect (if they will), OR you could have him/her initial the fake item and
date it.
(The clerks know what a rock looks like and what an empty slab looks
like, BUT they don't know what a fake card looks like.)
....................................
If the tampered item is returned w/o SC, it might get lost in the mail.
..................
Don't communicate with the guy outside of the Dispute Console.
................
Since PayPal is swept, it needs to stay that way until this case is closed.
If you have another low-balance sweep account, you might take the old
one off and replace it with the spare. In theory, if you do another sweep
to the old account, PP might try to piggyback the old money to a reversal
of a current sweep. PP might also piggyback EBAY-fees, if they are paid
from the current sweep account via PP.
PP does not like to honor their Buyer Protection scheme/scam with their own
money. For $2K, they don't really care about the law or regs or their own TOS;
they will try to get the money back.
.........................
If the scammer wanted a SMALL partial refund, I might give it to him to settle the
claim.
...........................
IF it turns out the slab was damaged in shipment - and the card was not switched -
you can file a USPS INS claim.
........................
There was a way to opt-out of EBAY making refunds on your behalf.
Look into that. (If you are opted in, EBAY can play piggyback on their
fees for the extra money. THAT was at the heart of the new scheme
that lets EBAY decide claims rather than having PP do it.)
............
If you get burned, file a complaint at the San Jose BBB. Tell them that
EBAY and PP were co-conspirators in a third-party scheme to defraud
you.
If you scream loud enough, you might get a "courtesy refund."
..................
On non-EBAY venues, there is no such thing as a PayPal-decided SNAD.
For that reason, many sellers have stopped listing expensive items on EBAY.
Save on ebay with Big Crumbs
"...You would think since since the buyer left positive feedback that would be enough to close the case..."
//////////////////////
FB is additional evidence that a seller can raise in his response to a SNAD or INR claim.
By itself, FB having been left is NEVER dispositive to a buyer's claim. The CS-monkey
gave bad info.
Buyers and Sellers often leave FB for the wrong sellers/buyers/items.
Wow this really sucks and is why I don't sell a lot on eBay.
What I don't understand is why a buyer would ask for a partial refund on a damaged card? If I was the buyer on the up and up and the card came damaged I would want a full refund. That is a lot of money to spend and I would want my card as described or a full refund.
And if it really did get damaged in the mail I would totally work with a seller to get his/her money back from the USPS.
If you do, it should be easy to determine if a switch took place
When it comes to tampered cases theres really no way of knowing when the case was actually tampered. It couldve been done by the seller, buyer, or someone who owned the card previously. How would ebay/paypal know unless the buyer has a track record?
<< <i>Very strange case.
When it comes to tampered cases theres really no way of knowing when the case was actually tampered. It couldve been done by the seller, buyer, or someone who owned the card previously. How would ebay/paypal know unless the buyer has a track record? >>
////////////////////////////////////
If the card has been switched, it can be proven.
<< <i>
<< <i>Very strange case.
When it comes to tampered cases theres really no way of knowing when the case was actually tampered. It couldve been done by the seller, buyer, or someone who owned the card previously. How would ebay/paypal know unless the buyer has a track record? >>
////////////////////////////////////
If the card has been switched, it can be proven. >>
True. The trick is finding out who switched the card? The buyer can claim the seller switched the card and vice versa.
<< <i>I do have it as no returns, but eBay has a new policy that the customer is never wrong. NO MATTER WHAT. >>
True. It doesn't matter if state you do not accept returns or you only accept them during a set period and someone files a SNAD after that time. I don't know why eBay even allows these options on their SYI form.
I think this is every seller's nightmare and I hope you don't get shafted on this transaction. I count my blessings almost daily that something like this hasn't happened to me... yet. Fortunately, the vast majority of people are honest, but that is little comfort when you come across on that isn't... especially on a 2K item.
Snorto~
and good luck
<< <i>
<< <i>Do you have a no return policy on graded cards? If so, the buyer should not be able to file a SNAD, as long as the card you showed in the scan is what he got. >>
I do have it as no returns, but eBay has a new policy that the customer is never wrong. NO MATTER WHAT. >>
That's right, Ebay will screw u ifin u don't CYA when the idiot returns the screwed with PSA holder just make sure u open it in front of a postal employee. also pls give us this guys ID so we can put him on th BBL
I appealed the decision and it was closed within 12 hours. The credit card I had on file had lapsed so they are asking me to give them a credit card or debit card they can bill.
"Common sense is the best distributed commodity in the world, for every man is convinced that he is well supplied with it"
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr. Seuss
like that is gonna happen...
Looking for 1970 MLB Photostamps
- uncut
Positive Transactions - tennesseebanker, Ahmanfan, Donruss, Colebear, CDsNuts, rbdjr1, Downtown1974, yankeeno7, drewsef, mnolan, mrbud60, msassin, RipublicaninMass, AkbarClone, rustywilly, lsutigers1973, julen23 and nam812, plus many others...
-CDs Nuts, 1/20/14
*1956 Topps baseball- 97.4% complete, 7.24 GPA
*Clemente basic set: 85.0% complete, 7.89 GPA
<< <i>Very sorry this happened, Allen. If I were in your position I'd be done with EBay, and if they wanted that money they would have to take me to court. >>
They wouldn't take him to court but they will turn it over to a collection agency.
Surely you have other avenues available to you.
If it were me and someone was trying to screw me out of 2 grand, I'd be talking to ebay and paypal supervisors 10 times a day.
I'd be filing a sworn affadavit that the card returned was not the original item and I'd be at my local PD tomorrow.
I'd take scans of the card before and after, take the switched item, a copy of my positive selling record on ebay and a copy of his inexperienced buying record.
I'd also be finding this guy's contact info and contacting the detectives in his area.
And if they tried to collect the debt thru a collection agency, I'd contest the debt as invalid.
This specific type of fraud happens all the time, I can't imagine you have no further recourse.
What item did the person send back?
Looking for 1970 MLB Photostamps
- uncut
Positive Transactions - tennesseebanker, Ahmanfan, Donruss, Colebear, CDsNuts, rbdjr1, Downtown1974, yankeeno7, drewsef, mnolan, mrbud60, msassin, RipublicaninMass, AkbarClone, rustywilly, lsutigers1973, julen23 and nam812, plus many others...
<< <i>This whole thing seems strange.
Surely you have other avenues available to you.
If it were me and someone was trying to screw me out of 2 grand, I'd be talking to ebay and paypal supervisors 10 times a day.
I'd be filing a sworn affadavit that the card returned was not the original item and I'd be at my local PD tomorrow.
I'd take scans of the card before and after, take the switched item, a copy of my positive selling record on ebay and a copy of his inexperienced buying record.
I'd also be finding this guy's contact info and contacting the detectives in his area.
And if they tried to collect the debt thru a collection agency, I'd contest the debt as invalid.
This specific type of fraud happens all the time, I can't imagine you have no further recourse. >>
Added to this list, I'd be tempted to pay a personal visit to this guy.
"Common sense is the best distributed commodity in the world, for every man is convinced that he is well supplied with it"
<< <i>We should all take turns calling this guy in the middle of the night for the next year. >>
Get his phone number and email address and I will gladly make him misearble until he changes both his number and email addy.
why havent you outed the buyer yet?
but you'll need a copy of the form. (Look at the online forms if
you don't wanna go in person.)
.................
Your local PD. Keep chatting them up until they agree to take
a written report of your complaint.
Get a copy of your complaint. If they won't give you a copy,
have your lawyer show up to get a copy.
FAX the report to the PD where the scamster is located. Call
and chat with the boys and see if they will accept a written
complaint. (For all we know, the scamster could be a regular
customer at his PD.)
.............
Do the detective work and find out everything you can about
the scamster.
................
Prepare your case on paper in affidavit form. Get it notarized.
Attach all of your evidence; photos, PD complaints, USPS form,
etc.
................
Call EBAY/PayPal and ask for a supervisor. Tell her you want to
FAX your evidence to her.
Keep calling back everyday until they tell you to stop calling.
....................
Next Step........
San Jose BBB.
Name only EBAY and PayPal as respondents.
Make it clear that you have the resources to litigate if EBAY/PP
does not reverse their fraud-influenced decision.
...................
NEVER tell EBAY/PP "I don't have the money to pay you." They
will bury you. They only fear folks with money.
The gangsters will try to collect the money themselves for a few
weeks or months. They will then give it to a collection agent.
DISPUTE the bill on the 28th day of the collection effort. Use
Certified Mail. DON"T talk on the phone with the collector.
In the meantime, there is a good chance that the BBB complaint
will be settled. EBAY/PP have a dept that does nothing but work
those complaints; they settle many of them with "courtesy refunds."
...................
A lawsuit is also an option. If it's a punk living with its parents, you
can chase them too. If they own a house and have insurance, the
carrier can be notified; if they don't step up, at least they will put
a note in the file and likely cancel the policy at renewal time.
..............................
If you don't have one, open a googlecheckout account quickly.
(PP will put you into a bad data base in a few weeks, and google
subscribes to the service.)
You will also need to prepare/submit a 100-word statement to the
three credit bureaus. WAIT until the account is in the hands of a
collection agency to send the statement.
.................
You can open a new PP account, using different info. But, I would
wait awhile.
...............
ecrater and other venues are MUCH safer for sellers than EBAY is.
..........
not spellchecked.
Steve