Yes, In 2000 the Trailblazers got real tight in the deciding game. They had that game sewn up and the Lakers killed them in the 4th QTR. In can remember the Blazers looking scared and shooting horrible shots. It was embarrasing for Portland--then they turned into the Jailblazers.
Oh crap, I forgot. Nick Anderson of the Orlando Magic in the finals vs Rockets. The guy was a wonderful shooter and he missed like 6 in a row down the stretch. After that season he became like a 40% FT shooter.
Yes, In 2000 the Trailblazers got real tight in the deciding game. They had that game sewn up and the Lakers killed them in the 4th QTR. In can remember the Blazers looking scared and shooting horrible shots. It was embarrasing for Portland--then they turned into the Jailblazers
los angeles had some extra help that night.
the following in an excerpt from tim donaghy's book. no matter what you think of dongahy, he was never accused of fixing games. he knew how to bet from know how the other referee's called games including dick bavetta.
Studying under Dick Bavetta for 13 years was like pursuing a graduate degree in advanced game manipulation. He knew how to marshal the tempo and tone of a game better than any referee in the league, by far. He also knew how to take subtle — and not so subtle — cues from the NBA front office and extend a playoff series or, worse yet, change the complexion of that series.
The 2002 Western Conference Finals between the Los Angeles Lakers and the Sacramento Kings presents a stunning example of game and series manipulation at its ugliest. As the teams prepared for Game 6 at the Staples Center, Sacramento had a 3–2 lead in the series. The referees assigned to work Game 6 were Dick Bavetta, Bob Delaney, and Ted Bernhardt. As soon as the referees for the game were chosen, the rest of us knew immediately that there would be a Game 7. A prolonged series was good for the league, good for the networks, and good for the game. Oh, and one more thing: it was great for the big-market, star-studded Los Angeles Lakers.
In the pregame meeting prior to Game 6, the league office sent down word that certain calls — calls that would have benefitted the Lakers — were being missed by the referees. This was the type of not-so-subtle information that I and other referees were left to interpret. After receiving the dispatch, Bavetta openly talked about the fact that the league wanted a Game 7.
"If we give the benefit of the calls to the team that's down in the series, nobody's going to complain. The series will be even at three apiece, and then the better team can win Game 7," Bavetta stated.
As history shows, Sacramento lost Game 6 in a wild come-from-behind thriller that saw the Lakers repeatedly sent to the foul line by the referees. For other NBA referees watching the game on television, it was a shameful performance by Bavetta's crew, one of the most poorly officiated games of all time.
The 2002 series certainly wasn't the first or last time Bavetta weighed in on an important game. He also worked Game 7 of the 2000 Western Conference Finals between the Lakers and the Trail Blazers. The Lakers were down by 13 at the start of the fourth quarter when Bavetta went to work. The Lakers outscored Portland 31–13 in the fourth quarter and went on to win the game and the series. It certainly didn't hurt the Lakers that they got to shoot 37 free throws compared to a paltry 16 for the Trail Blazers.
Two weeks before the 2003–04 season ended, Bavetta and I were assigned to officiate a game in Oakland. That afternoon before the tip-off, we were discussing an upcoming game on our schedule. It was the last regular-season game we were scheduled to work, pitting Denver against San Antonio. Denver had lost a game a few weeks prior because of a mistake made by the referees, a loss that could be the difference between them making or missing the playoffs. Bavetta told me Denver needed the win and that it would look bad for the staff and the league if the Nuggets missed the playoffs by one game. There were still a few games left on the schedule before the end of the season, and the standings could potentially change. But on that day in Oakland, Bavetta looked at me and casually stated, "Denver will win if they need the game. That's why I'm on it."
I was thinking, How is Denver going to win on the road in San Antonio? At the time, the Spurs were arguably the best team in the league. Bavetta answered my question before it was asked.
"Duncan will be on the bench with three fouls within the first five minutes of the game," he calmly stated.
Bavetta went on to inform me that it wasn't the first time the NBA assigned him to a game for a specific purpose. He cited examples, including the 1993 playoff series when he put New Jersey guard Drazen Petrovic on the bench with quick fouls to help Cleveland beat the Nets. He also spoke openly about the 2002 Los Angeles–Sacramento series and called himself the NBA's "go-to guy."
As it turned out, Denver didn't need the win after all; they locked up a spot in the playoffs before they got to San Antonio. In a twist of fate, it was the Spurs that ended up needing the win to have a shot at the division title, and Bavetta generously accommodated. In our pregame meeting, he talked about how important the game was to San Antonio and how meaningless it was to Denver, and that San Antonio was going to get the benefit of the calls that night. Armed with this inside information, I called Jack Concannon before the game and told him to bet the Spurs.
To no surprise, we won big. San Antonio blew Denver out of the building that evening, winning by 26 points. When Jack called me the following morning, he expressed amazement at the way an NBA game could be manipulated. Sobering, yes; amazing, no. That's how the game is played in the National Basketball Association.
Jan 2010 you sign up and have 240 posts in which 90% of them are argumentitive, rude & ignorant.
Your throwing stuff out there that only veteran posters would make mention of.
You will be exposed soon enough even if you dont do your routine PM'ing of insults. >>
Get your facts straight.
Ever since i got on this forum grote15/saberman continuously bring up the Bradshaw bashing. He wont let it go. And just because i disagree with him, he continues to bring up the subject. He has every right to give his opinions, and i have every right to give mine.
If you feel like i am abusing this board with multiple id's then go to the mods. Because i will guarantee you i only have one username, and have never been on this board before jan 2010.
Jan 2010 you sign up and have 240 posts in which 90% of them are argumentitive, rude & ignorant.
Your throwing stuff out there that only veteran posters would make mention of.
You will be exposed soon enough even if you dont do your routine PM'ing of insults. >>
Get your facts straight.
Ever since i got on this forum grote15/saberman continuously bring up the Bradshaw bashing. He wont let it go. And just because i disagree with him, he continues to bring up the subject. He has every right to give his opinions, and i have every right to give mine.
If you feel like i am abusing this board with multiple id's then go to the mods. Because i will guarantee you i only have one username, and have never been on this board before jan 2010.
You keep making totally ridiculous allegations that I am Saberman, when everyone who's been here for a significant amount of time knows that is absolutely not true, and now you try to play the victim while simultaneously making rude and arrogant remarks? Nice try, but as other reputable posters have already commented, you have ZERO credibility here. And for future reference, when one poster agrees with another, it does not mean they are the same person. Either you realize that and are just trying to deflect attention away from yourself or you are totally clueless.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Jan 2010 you sign up and have 240 posts in which 90% of them are argumentitive, rude & ignorant.
Your throwing stuff out there that only veteran posters would make mention of.
You will be exposed soon enough even if you dont do your routine PM'ing of insults. >>
Get your facts straight.
Ever since i got on this forum grote15/saberman continuously bring up the Bradshaw bashing. He wont let it go. And just because i disagree with him, he continues to bring up the subject. He has every right to give his opinions, and i have every right to give mine.
If you feel like i am abusing this board with multiple id's then go to the mods. Because i will guarantee you i only have one username, and have never been on this board before jan 2010.
You keep making totally ridiculous allegations that I am Saberman, when everyone who's been here for a significant amount of time knows that is absolutely not true, and now you try to play the victim while simultaneously making rude and arrogant remarks? Nice try, but as other reputable posters have already commented, you have ZERO credibility here. And for future reference, when one poster agrees with another, it does not mean they are the same person. Either you realize that and are just trying to deflect attention away from yourself or you are totally clueless. >>
+1 for a well written post filled to the brim with common sense!
Speaking of blowing a 3 game lead.... The REAL chokers are the 2009 Tigers. Maybe I'm biased because they're my boys, but you just don't blow a 3 game lead with only 4 left to play. AND 3 of the games were against teams that meant nothing! Talk all you want about the 2004 Yanks, at least both teams GOT THERE!! We are a rapidly crumbling city with no economy and our team held us on the brink until the final game. THAT is a choke. when you are ahead and you don't play to win (Cabrera and co...), but instead play to not lose, you are a CHOKER!!!
<< <i>Has to be the Yankees in the 2004 ALCS. What is perhaps overlooked here is that in game 3 (in Fenway), the Yankees crushed the Red Sox 19-8. I'd say close to 100% of fans/viewers felt this thing was history. As pointed out earlier, it took 2 o/t games to overcome the Yankees.) >>
And you realize if you put the "-" on its end, it makes 1918. Perhaps that was a sign?
Jan 2010 you sign up and have 240 posts in which 90% of them are argumentitive, rude & ignorant.
Your throwing stuff out there that only veteran posters would make mention of.
You will be exposed soon enough even if you dont do your routine PM'ing of insults. >>
Get your facts straight.
Ever since i got on this forum grote15/saberman continuously bring up the Bradshaw bashing. He wont let it go. And just because i disagree with him, he continues to bring up the subject. He has every right to give his opinions, and i have every right to give mine.
If you feel like i am abusing this board with multiple id's then go to the mods. Because i will guarantee you i only have one username, and have never been on this board before jan 2010.
You keep making totally ridiculous allegations that I am Saberman, when everyone who's been here for a significant amount of time knows that is absolutely not true, and now you try to play the victim while simultaneously making rude and arrogant remarks? Nice try, but as other reputable posters have already commented, you have ZERO credibility here. And for future reference, when one poster agrees with another, it does not mean they are the same person. Either you realize that and are just trying to deflect attention away from yourself or you are totally clueless. >>
+1 for a well written post filled to the brim with common sense! : >>
And you realize if you put the "-" on its end, it makes 1918. Perhaps that was a sign?
Perhaps THEE sign was the pic taken in right field in Fenway of Gabe Kapler (#19), standing next to Johnny Damon (#18)...CLEARLY showing 1918. I don't recall the exact date of the pic, but it was taken in 2004. Perhaps one of our Red Sox Nation faithful can find the pic, post it and add the date taken.
BTW, literally thousands upon thousands of pennants of Red Sox WS champs were placed throughout New England cemeteries. These were placed at grandfathers, fathers, uncles, brothers as well as grandmothers, aunts, mothers and sisters graves who long suffered through those 86 years of drought...the WS was finally ours to enjoy, Bucky Dent, Aaron Boone, Billy Buckner and other losses were erased in a flash. This was more than just a WS win, this was the ultimate nirvana moment for Red Sox Nation and the way it was done made it even sweeter than sweet. Not any other New England sport team accomplishment will ever top this, not a hundred Doug Fluties tosses, a perfect Patriot season, the Stanley Cup, no Celtics accomplishments, nothing, but NOTHING will ever top that moment for the Red Sox faithful.
We may need a different category for postseason choke jobs and regular season choke jobs.
At this point the '04 Yanks and the '09-'10 Bruins seem to have the postseason category nominations locked up. Though in a single-game NFL elimination, hey to the 1992 Oilers. Love Ya Blue!
For the regular season, we have the 1964 Phillies, 1978 Red Sox and 2007 Mets.
Here are 3 major chokes that always come to mind when someone mentions the choke in sports...
Choke#1
<< <i>In 1978, the Red Sox, led by Jim Rice, Carl Yastrzemski, Fred Lynn and catcher Carlton Fisk, seemed as if they were destined for a trip to the Fall Classic for the second time in the decade. They led the Yankees in the standings by 14½ games by mid-July, with less than three months to go in the regular season. However, the Yankees turned their season around just as the Red Sox seemed to collapse. By September 7, the Yankees had whittled down the once seemingly insurmountable 14½-game deficit to only four games, just in time for a four-game series at Fenway Park in Boston. The Yankees won all four games in the series by the scores of 15–3, 13–2, 7–0 and 7–4 for a combined score of 42–9. This series became known as the "Boston Massacre". On September 16, the Yankees held a 3½ game lead over the Red Sox, but the Sox won 12 of their next 14 games (and their last eight in a row) to overcome that deficit and finish in a first-place tie with the Yankees, as both teams had identical 99–63 records. A one-game playoff was scheduled in Boston to determine who would win the AL East pennant for 1978.
Boston placed former Yankee Mike Torrez on the mound, while the Yankees countered with the Cy Young Award winner from that year, Ron Guidry, who took a 24–3 record into the game. The Sox led 2–0 going into the top of the seventh inning, when Yankee shortstop Bucky Dent hit a two-out, three-run home run over Fenway Park's Green Monster to take a 3–2 lead. It was just his fifth home run of the season. The Yankees added another run that inning, and in the eighth, Reggie Jackson made the score 5–2 with a solo home run to dead center field. The Sox rallied in the bottom of the inning, scoring twice. They rallied again in the ninth, only to come up short when Yastrzemski popped out to third baseman Graig Nettles with runners on second and third, ending the game and giving the Yankees a 5–4 victory. New York went on to defeat the Kansas City Royals in the ALCS and the Los Angeles Dodgers in the World Series for their second straight championship. >>
Choke #2
<< <i>1986 World Series Game 6 - Down to their final out and down by two runs, the Mets would go on to stage a historic comeback. Gary Carter started the rally with a single to left. Darryl Strawberry's spot would have come up next, however Mets manager Davey Johnson had removed the slugger earlier in the game through a double switch. Instead, Johnson sent Kevin Mitchell to the plate to pinch hit for pitcher Rick Aguilera. Mitchell singled to center field.
Mitchell was followed by Knight, who went down in the count 0–2 leaving the Mets a strike away from elimination. Knight hit the next pitch into center field for a single that scored Carter and advanced Mitchell to third base, bringing the score to 5–4 and leaving the tying run only 90 feet (27 m) away.
The Red Sox replaced pitcher Calvin Schiraldi with the veteran Bob Stanley to face left fielder Mookie Wilson. On the seventh pitch of the at bat, with a 2–2 count, Stanley's pitch was too far inside and slipped past catcher Rich Gedman for a wild pitch, sending Wilson to the ground and allowing Mitchell to score from third base with the tying run. Knight moved up to second base on the wild pitch. With the count 3–2, Wilson fouled off the eighth and ninth pitches from Stanley. Meanwhile, Ray Knight was straying far from second base when Boston shortstop Spike Owen sneaked in behind him. Had Stanley glanced back at second, he would have easily picked Knight off.
With Shea Stadium literally rocking, Wilson stepped back in with a full count and the winning run in scoring position. On the tenth pitch of the at-bat, Wilson hit a slow ground ball up the first base line that appeared to be an easy play for Boston first baseman Bill Buckner. As the speedy Wilson busted out of the box, the ball snuck between the legs of Buckner who was playing on two bad ankles. The ball slipped under his glove, and rolled slowly into right field. Knight grabbed his helmet as he jumped on home plate to win the game in an iconic image of one of the most famous comebacks in World Series history. The irony is that, throughout the season, whenever the Red Sox had a late inning lead, Buckner was usually pulled for Dave Stapleton for defensive purposes. Red Sox manager John McNamara left Buckner in the game so he could be on the field for the final out. >>
Choke #3
<< <i>In 2003, the Yankees and Red Sox faced off in the ALCS for the second time. The intensity of the series was highlighted by a protracted dispute in Game 3 which devolved into a bench-clearing altercation in which Yankees coach Don Zimmer charged Boston ace Pedro Martínez, the former of whom ended up on the grass. Tied at three wins apiece after the first six grueling and fervent games, Boston held a 5-2 lead in the eighth inning of Game 7 at Yankee Stadium in New York, with Martinez on the mound. The Yankees began a one-out rally with three straight hits that cut the deficit to 5-3 and left runners on second and third base. It seemed that Martinez had tired, but Boston manager Grady Little decided to leave him in the game. This decision immediately backfired when the next batter, New York catcher Jorge Posada, blooped a double into center field that scored both runners and tied the game. In the bottom of the eleventh inning, third baseman Aaron Boone, batting .161 in the postseason to that point, hit a series-ending home run into the left field stands, winning for the Yankees their 39th American League pennant. >>
<< <i>The Buckner play. It's not even close. You HAD the World Series won. ANY one of us would have made that play. As bad as the 04 ALCS was, it wasn't the World Series sealed and delivered only to be literally given away. >>
<< <i>The Buckner play. It's not even close. You HAD the World Series won. ANY one of us would have made that play. As bad as the 04 ALCS was, it wasn't the World Series sealed and delivered only to be literally given away. >>
there were alot of other factors as to how the mets won. Not just the buckner play. One simple mistake doesnt cost you 4 games. >>
What is choking? Choking is when your breathing is obstructed, and you can no longer breath. Breathing is seen as an easy thing that is done without any effort, and choking is something done to stop that.
In elite competition, hardly anything is 'easy', and I see Winpitcher's logic in regard to the '04 Yankees.
Choking would be an elite athlete losing something so easy, that they should not have even had to give any effort to win it. Had the '04 Yankees lost a 3-0 lead to the local high school team, yeah...but they lost it to one of the three best teams on the planet. It may be more to do with how good the Red Sox were.
A lot of these things are sometimes products of randomness or mere coincidence, as opposed to 'choking'. It kind of depends on how you look at it.
Really, stuff like Steve Sax not being able to throw a simple ball to the first baseman, Rick Ankiel not being able to throw a ball in the same zip code as home plate, or Saltalamachia not being able to throw the ball back to the pitcher, are more in line of not being able to compete a task as simple as breathing, and may really be more in line of choking.
It's hard for me to call the baseball games chokes.
Yeah Rivera has lost a few times, '97, '01, and '04 were fun. The game 4 loss to the Red Sox was a tough one. Had the Yanks catcher been able to throw out the base stealer, or the Yanks had a center fielder the Sox had to respect the Yanks might have still managed to win. Collectively the Yankees hitters choked the rest of the series. They should have been able to win one of the next three with their bats.
In '86 the Red Sox reliever gagged. He threw the wild pitches that tied the game, setting up Buckner to lose it.
Unless I missed it, how can you have a thread about choking and not include my favorite football team. The Vikings! The only team that has proven the ability to lose the big game to inferior teams.
When the ball went through his legs, the game was tied, so even if it was the biggest choke in history, it absolutely is close ... with Stanley's wild pitch being one. And to say the World Series was sealed when Mookie Wilson put the bat on the ball is disingenuous
<< <i>Somehow I thought that the Red Sox had the lead when the Buckner play occurred. If that is not the case, then certainly it's not as bad as I made it out to seem. >>
The Sox led 5-3 to start the bottom of the 10th, but it was 5-5 when the Buckner play occurred.
Buckner would be remembered simply as a very good baseball player with over 2,700 hits if Calvin Schiraldi and Bob Stanley not imploded in the inning.
In fact, Buckner wouldn't have even been in the game if McNamara used his head and put Stapleton into the game for defense.
In recent years I've been glad to see most Boston fans have shifted the "blame" for the '86 meltdown elsewhere. Had the manager and bullpen done their job, Buckner wouldn't have ever been in that position.
Comments
los angeles had some extra help that night.
the following in an excerpt from tim donaghy's book. no matter what you think of dongahy, he was never accused of fixing games. he knew how to bet from know how the other referee's called games including dick bavetta.
Studying under Dick Bavetta for 13 years was like pursuing a graduate degree in advanced game manipulation. He knew how to marshal the tempo and tone of a game better than any referee in the league, by far. He also knew how to take subtle — and not so subtle — cues from the NBA front office and extend a playoff series or, worse yet, change the complexion of that series.
The 2002 Western Conference Finals between the Los Angeles Lakers and the Sacramento Kings presents a stunning example of game and series manipulation at its ugliest. As the teams prepared for Game 6 at the Staples Center, Sacramento had a 3–2 lead in the series. The referees assigned to work Game 6 were Dick Bavetta, Bob Delaney, and Ted Bernhardt. As soon as the referees for the game were chosen, the rest of us knew immediately that there would be a Game 7. A prolonged series was good for the league, good for the networks, and good for the game. Oh, and one more thing: it was great for the big-market, star-studded Los Angeles Lakers.
In the pregame meeting prior to Game 6, the league office sent down word that certain calls — calls that would have benefitted the Lakers — were being missed by the referees. This was the type of not-so-subtle information that I and other referees were left to interpret. After receiving the dispatch, Bavetta openly talked about the fact that the league wanted a Game 7.
"If we give the benefit of the calls to the team that's down in the series, nobody's going to complain. The series will be even at three apiece, and then the better team can win Game 7," Bavetta stated.
As history shows, Sacramento lost Game 6 in a wild come-from-behind thriller that saw the Lakers repeatedly sent to the foul line by the referees. For other NBA referees watching the game on television, it was a shameful performance by Bavetta's crew, one of the most poorly officiated games of all time.
The 2002 series certainly wasn't the first or last time Bavetta weighed in on an important game. He also worked Game 7 of the 2000 Western Conference Finals between the Lakers and the Trail Blazers. The Lakers were down by 13 at the start of the fourth quarter when Bavetta went to work. The Lakers outscored Portland 31–13 in the fourth quarter and went on to win the game and the series. It certainly didn't hurt the Lakers that they got to shoot 37 free throws compared to a paltry 16 for the Trail Blazers.
Two weeks before the 2003–04 season ended, Bavetta and I were assigned to officiate a game in Oakland. That afternoon before the tip-off, we were discussing an upcoming game on our schedule. It was the last regular-season game we were scheduled to work, pitting Denver against San Antonio. Denver had lost a game a few weeks prior because of a mistake made by the referees, a loss that could be the difference between them making or missing the playoffs. Bavetta told me Denver needed the win and that it would look bad for the staff and the league if the Nuggets missed the playoffs by one game. There were still a few games left on the schedule before the end of the season, and the standings could potentially change. But on that day in Oakland, Bavetta looked at me and casually stated, "Denver will win if they need the game. That's why I'm on it."
I was thinking, How is Denver going to win on the road in San Antonio? At the time, the Spurs were arguably the best team in the league. Bavetta answered my question before it was asked.
"Duncan will be on the bench with three fouls within the first five minutes of the game," he calmly stated.
Bavetta went on to inform me that it wasn't the first time the NBA assigned him to a game for a specific purpose. He cited examples, including the 1993 playoff series when he put New Jersey guard Drazen Petrovic on the bench with quick fouls to help Cleveland beat the Nets. He also spoke openly about the 2002 Los Angeles–Sacramento series and called himself the NBA's "go-to guy."
As it turned out, Denver didn't need the win after all; they locked up a spot in the playoffs before they got to San Antonio. In a twist of fate, it was the Spurs that ended up needing the win to have a shot at the division title, and Bavetta generously accommodated. In our pregame meeting, he talked about how important the game was to San Antonio and how meaningless it was to Denver, and that San Antonio was going to get the benefit of the calls that night. Armed with this inside information, I called Jack Concannon before the game and told him to bet the Spurs.
To no surprise, we won big. San Antonio blew Denver out of the building that evening, winning by 26 points. When Jack called me the following morning, he expressed amazement at the way an NBA game could be manipulated. Sobering, yes; amazing, no. That's how the game is played in the National Basketball Association.
<< <i>Hey Blacklabelsociety- Lets see....
Jan 2010 you sign up and have 240 posts in which 90% of them are argumentitive, rude & ignorant.
Your throwing stuff out there that only veteran posters would make mention of.
You will be exposed soon enough even if you dont do your routine PM'ing of insults. >>
Get your facts straight.
Ever since i got on this forum grote15/saberman continuously bring up the Bradshaw bashing. He wont let it go. And just because i disagree with him, he continues to bring up the subject. He has every right to give his opinions, and i have every right to give mine.
If you feel like i am abusing this board with multiple id's then go to the mods. Because i will guarantee you i only have one username, and have never been on this board before jan 2010.
Jan 2010 you sign up and have 240 posts in which 90% of them are argumentitive, rude & ignorant.
Your throwing stuff out there that only veteran posters would make mention of.
You will be exposed soon enough even if you dont do your routine PM'ing of insults. >>
Get your facts straight.
Ever since i got on this forum grote15/saberman continuously bring up the Bradshaw bashing. He wont let it go. And just because i disagree with him, he continues to bring up the subject. He has every right to give his opinions, and i have every right to give mine.
If you feel like i am abusing this board with multiple id's then go to the mods. Because i will guarantee you i only have one username, and have never been on this board before jan 2010.
You keep making totally ridiculous allegations that I am Saberman, when everyone who's been here for a significant amount of time knows that is absolutely not true, and now you try to play the victim while simultaneously making rude and arrogant remarks? Nice try, but as other reputable posters have already commented, you have ZERO credibility here. And for future reference, when one poster agrees with another, it does not mean they are the same person. Either you realize that and are just trying to deflect attention away from yourself or you are totally clueless.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i> Hey Blacklabelsociety- Lets see....
Jan 2010 you sign up and have 240 posts in which 90% of them are argumentitive, rude & ignorant.
Your throwing stuff out there that only veteran posters would make mention of.
You will be exposed soon enough even if you dont do your routine PM'ing of insults. >>
Get your facts straight.
Ever since i got on this forum grote15/saberman continuously bring up the Bradshaw bashing. He wont let it go. And just because i disagree with him, he continues to bring up the subject. He has every right to give his opinions, and i have every right to give mine.
If you feel like i am abusing this board with multiple id's then go to the mods. Because i will guarantee you i only have one username, and have never been on this board before jan 2010.
You keep making totally ridiculous allegations that I am Saberman, when everyone who's been here for a significant amount of time knows that is absolutely not true, and now you try to play the victim while simultaneously making rude and arrogant remarks? Nice try, but as other reputable posters have already commented, you have ZERO credibility here. And for future reference, when one poster agrees with another, it does not mean they are the same person. Either you realize that and are just trying to deflect attention away from yourself or you are totally clueless. >>
+1 for a well written post filled to the brim with common sense!
<< <i>Has to be the Yankees in the 2004 ALCS. What is perhaps overlooked here is that in game 3 (in Fenway), the Yankees crushed the Red Sox 19-8. I'd say close to 100% of fans/viewers felt this thing was history. As pointed out earlier, it took 2 o/t games to overcome the Yankees.) >>
And you realize if you put the "-" on its end, it makes 1918. Perhaps that was a sign?
D's: 54S,53P,50P,49S,45D+S,44S,43D,41S,40D+S,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 37,38,47,151,193,241,435,570,610,654,655 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings,Rising Stars
<< <i>
<< <i> Hey Blacklabelsociety- Lets see....
Jan 2010 you sign up and have 240 posts in which 90% of them are argumentitive, rude & ignorant.
Your throwing stuff out there that only veteran posters would make mention of.
You will be exposed soon enough even if you dont do your routine PM'ing of insults. >>
Get your facts straight.
Ever since i got on this forum grote15/saberman continuously bring up the Bradshaw bashing. He wont let it go. And just because i disagree with him, he continues to bring up the subject. He has every right to give his opinions, and i have every right to give mine.
If you feel like i am abusing this board with multiple id's then go to the mods. Because i will guarantee you i only have one username, and have never been on this board before jan 2010.
You keep making totally ridiculous allegations that I am Saberman, when everyone who's been here for a significant amount of time knows that is absolutely not true, and now you try to play the victim while simultaneously making rude and arrogant remarks? Nice try, but as other reputable posters have already commented, you have ZERO credibility here. And for future reference, when one poster agrees with another, it does not mean they are the same person. Either you realize that and are just trying to deflect attention away from yourself or you are totally clueless. >>
+1 for a well written post filled to the brim with common sense! : >>
Or not.
Perhaps THEE sign was the pic taken in right field in Fenway of Gabe Kapler (#19), standing next to Johnny Damon (#18)...CLEARLY showing 1918. I don't recall the exact date of the pic, but it was taken in 2004. Perhaps one of our Red Sox Nation faithful can find the pic, post it and add the date taken.
BTW, literally thousands upon thousands of pennants of Red Sox WS champs were placed throughout New England cemeteries. These were placed at grandfathers, fathers, uncles, brothers as well as grandmothers, aunts, mothers and sisters graves who long suffered through those 86 years of drought...the WS was finally ours to enjoy, Bucky Dent, Aaron Boone, Billy Buckner and other losses were erased in a flash. This was more than just a WS win, this was the ultimate nirvana moment for Red Sox Nation and the way it was done made it even sweeter than sweet. Not any other New England sport team accomplishment will ever top this, not a hundred Doug Fluties tosses, a perfect Patriot season, the Stanley Cup, no Celtics accomplishments, nothing, but NOTHING will ever top that moment for the Red Sox faithful.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
Leading 3-0 in the series, and leading 3-0 at home in Game 7, only to lose the last game and the series 4-3.
Bosox1976
<< <i>Makes the 1964 Phillies choke job somewhat respectable. LOL >>
We may need a different category for postseason choke jobs and regular season choke jobs.
At this point the '04 Yanks and the '09-'10 Bruins seem to have the postseason category nominations locked up. Though in a single-game NFL elimination, hey to the 1992 Oilers. Love Ya Blue!
For the regular season, we have the 1964 Phillies, 1978 Red Sox and 2007 Mets.
<< <i>2010 Boston Bruins.
Leading 3-0 in the series, and leading 3-0 at home in Game 7, only to lose the last game and the series 4-3. >>
I thought the biggest choke in Hockey was the 1980 Soviet Olympic Team. I may have to rethink that now.
http://www.unisquare.com/store/brick/
Ralph
Choke#1
<< <i>In 1978, the Red Sox, led by Jim Rice, Carl Yastrzemski, Fred Lynn and catcher Carlton Fisk, seemed as if they were destined for a trip to the Fall Classic for the second time in the decade. They led the Yankees in the standings by 14½ games by mid-July, with less than three months to go in the regular season. However, the Yankees turned their season around just as the Red Sox seemed to collapse. By September 7, the Yankees had whittled down the once seemingly insurmountable 14½-game deficit to only four games, just in time for a four-game series at Fenway Park in Boston. The Yankees won all four games in the series by the scores of 15–3, 13–2, 7–0 and 7–4 for a combined score of 42–9. This series became known as the "Boston Massacre". On September 16, the Yankees held a 3½ game lead over the Red Sox, but the Sox won 12 of their next 14 games (and their last eight in a row) to overcome that deficit and finish in a first-place tie with the Yankees, as both teams had identical 99–63 records. A one-game playoff was scheduled in Boston to determine who would win the AL East pennant for 1978.
Boston placed former Yankee Mike Torrez on the mound, while the Yankees countered with the Cy Young Award winner from that year, Ron Guidry, who took a 24–3 record into the game. The Sox led 2–0 going into the top of the seventh inning, when Yankee shortstop Bucky Dent hit a two-out, three-run home run over Fenway Park's Green Monster to take a 3–2 lead. It was just his fifth home run of the season. The Yankees added another run that inning, and in the eighth, Reggie Jackson made the score 5–2 with a solo home run to dead center field. The Sox rallied in the bottom of the inning, scoring twice. They rallied again in the ninth, only to come up short when Yastrzemski popped out to third baseman Graig Nettles with runners on second and third, ending the game and giving the Yankees a 5–4 victory. New York went on to defeat the Kansas City Royals in the ALCS and the Los Angeles Dodgers in the World Series for their second straight championship. >>
Choke #2
<< <i>1986 World Series Game 6 - Down to their final out and down by two runs, the Mets would go on to stage a historic comeback. Gary Carter started the rally with a single to left. Darryl Strawberry's spot would have come up next, however Mets manager Davey Johnson had removed the slugger earlier in the game through a double switch. Instead, Johnson sent Kevin Mitchell to the plate to pinch hit for pitcher Rick Aguilera. Mitchell singled to center field.
Mitchell was followed by Knight, who went down in the count 0–2 leaving the Mets a strike away from elimination. Knight hit the next pitch into center field for a single that scored Carter and advanced Mitchell to third base, bringing the score to 5–4 and leaving the tying run only 90 feet (27 m) away.
The Red Sox replaced pitcher Calvin Schiraldi with the veteran Bob Stanley to face left fielder Mookie Wilson. On the seventh pitch of the at bat, with a 2–2 count, Stanley's pitch was too far inside and slipped past catcher Rich Gedman for a wild pitch, sending Wilson to the ground and allowing Mitchell to score from third base with the tying run. Knight moved up to second base on the wild pitch. With the count 3–2, Wilson fouled off the eighth and ninth pitches from Stanley. Meanwhile, Ray Knight was straying far from second base when Boston shortstop Spike Owen sneaked in behind him. Had Stanley glanced back at second, he would have easily picked Knight off.
With Shea Stadium literally rocking, Wilson stepped back in with a full count and the winning run in scoring position. On the tenth pitch of the at-bat, Wilson hit a slow ground ball up the first base line that appeared to be an easy play for Boston first baseman Bill Buckner. As the speedy Wilson busted out of the box, the ball snuck between the legs of Buckner who was playing on two bad ankles. The ball slipped under his glove, and rolled slowly into right field. Knight grabbed his helmet as he jumped on home plate to win the game in an iconic image of one of the most famous comebacks in World Series history. The irony is that, throughout the season, whenever the Red Sox had a late inning lead, Buckner was usually pulled for Dave Stapleton for defensive purposes. Red Sox manager John McNamara left Buckner in the game so he could be on the field for the final out. >>
Choke #3
<< <i>In 2003, the Yankees and Red Sox faced off in the ALCS for the second time. The intensity of the series was highlighted by a protracted dispute in Game 3 which devolved into a bench-clearing altercation in which Yankees coach Don Zimmer charged Boston ace Pedro Martínez, the former of whom ended up on the grass. Tied at three wins apiece after the first six grueling and fervent games, Boston held a 5-2 lead in the eighth inning of Game 7 at Yankee Stadium in New York, with Martinez on the mound. The Yankees began a one-out rally with three straight hits that cut the deficit to 5-3 and left runners on second and third base. It seemed that Martinez had tired, but Boston manager Grady Little decided to leave him in the game. This decision immediately backfired when the next batter, New York catcher Jorge Posada, blooped a double into center field that scored both runners and tied the game. In the bottom of the eleventh inning, third baseman Aaron Boone, batting .161 in the postseason to that point, hit a series-ending home run into the left field stands, winning for the Yankees their 39th American League pennant. >>
No mention what-so-ever of the 14 game (FOURTEEN) lead they had on the Yankees on July 18th 1978.
What happened?
C H O K E
Bunch of simpletons ......
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>ahhhhh Red Sox fans LOL
No mention what-so-ever of the 14 game (FOURTEEN) lead they had on the Yankees on July 18th 1978.
What happened?
I believe I mentioned the '78 Red Sox already. Of course, maybe you were specifically calling out Sox fans, and if so, never mind.
<< <i>The Buckner play. It's not even close. You HAD the World Series won. ANY one of us would have made that play. As bad as the 04 ALCS was, it wasn't the World Series sealed and delivered only to be literally given away. >>
<< <i>
<< <i>The Buckner play. It's not even close. You HAD the World Series won. ANY one of us would have made that play. As bad as the 04 ALCS was, it wasn't the World Series sealed and delivered only to be literally given away. >>
there were alot of other factors as to how the mets won. Not just the buckner play. One simple mistake doesnt cost you 4 games. >>
In elite competition, hardly anything is 'easy', and I see Winpitcher's logic in regard to the '04 Yankees.
Choking would be an elite athlete losing something so easy, that they should not have even had to give any effort to win it. Had the '04 Yankees lost a 3-0 lead to the local high school team, yeah...but they lost it to one of the three best teams on the planet. It may be more to do with how good the Red Sox were.
A lot of these things are sometimes products of randomness or mere coincidence, as opposed to 'choking'. It kind of depends on how you look at it.
Really, stuff like Steve Sax not being able to throw a simple ball to the first baseman, Rick Ankiel not being able to throw a ball in the same zip code as home plate, or Saltalamachia not being able to throw the ball back to the pitcher, are more in line of not being able to compete a task as simple as breathing, and may really be more in line of choking.
Yeah Rivera has lost a few times, '97, '01, and '04 were fun. The game 4 loss to the Red Sox was a tough one. Had the Yanks catcher been able to throw out the base stealer, or the Yanks had a center fielder the Sox had to respect the Yanks might have still managed to win. Collectively the Yankees hitters choked the rest of the series. They should have been able to win one of the next three with their bats.
In '86 the Red Sox reliever gagged. He threw the wild pitches that tied the game, setting up Buckner to lose it.
Unless I missed it, how can you have a thread about choking and not include my favorite football team. The Vikings! The only team that has proven the ability to lose the big game to inferior teams.
<< <i>Somehow I thought that the Red Sox had the lead when the Buckner play occurred. If that is not the case, then certainly it's not as bad as I made it out to seem. >>
The Sox led 5-3 to start the bottom of the 10th, but it was 5-5 when the Buckner play occurred.
Buckner would be remembered simply as a very good baseball player with over 2,700 hits if Calvin Schiraldi and Bob Stanley not imploded in the inning.
In fact, Buckner wouldn't have even been in the game if McNamara used his head and put Stapleton into the game for defense.
In recent years I've been glad to see most Boston fans have shifted the "blame" for the '86 meltdown elsewhere. Had the manager and bullpen done their job, Buckner wouldn't have ever been in that position.
There are 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who do not.