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The China RC Factor?

What does everyone think of the growing influx of Chinese "replica coins," and the possibility that some of them are being sold as "real," which is abject counterfeiting?

On a whim, I recently purchased a "replica" 1912-s Liberty V Nickel. Nowhere on the coin is it stamped "replica" or "copy."

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I had been away from collecting for about 5 years, and it was astonishing to see how many of these are available on Ebay, for basically all U.S. types and dates.

What to make of all of this?

Comments

  • What I make of it, is that when you buy any of them you are a part of the problem.

    Ray
  • cameron12xcameron12x Posts: 1,384 ✭✭✭


    << <i>What I make of it, is that when you buy any of them you are a part of the problem.

    Ray >>


    I agree, that's why I only bought one out of curiosity. I think it's a much larger problem than just me, however.
  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,515 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So, you bought this little baby off Ebay? Then you need to file a not as described
    complaint, neg the seller and destroy the coin (Ebay will let you do that rather than
    return it).

    bob
    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • The only thing I can see happening in the future is TPGs makin some big money and more and more coin books being sold. Either that or people just starting the hobby will drop it like a bad habit.

    A simple comparison (though very different) is that show 'Gangland' on the history channel. Almost every episode says "When we lock one gang member up, 3 more join the gang." The same can go for the amount of counterfeit coins there are. Once you get rid of one, 3 more are up for auction.

    IMO, counterfeits will be a never-ending cycle. I can just hope the majority of those who make counterfeits do as bad of a job as the one you have pictured.
  • mkman123mkman123 Posts: 6,849 ✭✭✭✭
    I could see more people dropping out of the hobby if the chinese make better and better counterfeits that fool people and if they mass produce pcgs or ngc slabs with fake coins inside. Its going to be scary!
    Successful Buying and Selling transactions with:

    Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
  • cameron12xcameron12x Posts: 1,384 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I could see more people dropping out of the hobby if the chinese make better and better counterfeits that fool people and if they mass produce pcgs or ngc slabs with fake coins inside. Its going to be scary! >>


    That is my fear, too.

    Ebay and others need to "drop" the coin "replica/copy" auction capability entirely.

    The problem is endemic and wide-spread. I just got back into collecting in January (after five years away), and I was shocked.

    Not only are the Chinese taking away our manufacturing base, but they're also now trying to steal part of our history?

    I posted my findings (here) immediately, in this thread.
  • cameron12xcameron12x Posts: 1,384 ✭✭✭
    A more lively discussion of this issue/problem is occuring "across the street." Not to be confused with "across the pond."
  • COALPORTERCOALPORTER Posts: 2,900 ✭✭
    Avoid whims and they will go out of business or get into something else.
  • cameron12xcameron12x Posts: 1,384 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Avoid whims and they will go out of business or get into something else. >>


    Indeed. As will "getting the word out" about them and raising awareness about the issue.
  • PCcoinsPCcoins Posts: 3,354 ✭✭✭
    I don't think its as big of a problem as it's made out to be. Most collectors that are buying the "key dates" or expensive coins, should be doing their research unless they want to through away thousands of dollars.

    I think the inexperienced collectors are the ones that are suffering from this problem.
    "It is what it is."
  • BearBear Posts: 18,954 ✭✭
    Folks have been making phony coinage, as long as coins have been made.
    This includes banging coins in a bag to knock off valuable gold and silver
    particles, clipping, gold plating V nickels to look like $5 dollar coins .
    Glued on mint marks especially 1932 d & s washies, modified dates 1914-d cents
    What is new, is the technology behind the out and out duplication of rare coinage
    that has been perfected to an alarming degree. At some point, TPGs will
    have to improve their capabilities to spot these , to stay ahead of the curve.


    If not for the assurance and guarantees of PCGS, I probably would have
    stopped collecting, as I really can not spot the well made forgeries. I would be
    a babe in the woods. While I can grade the types of coins I collect, especially
    the grades I prefer, the forgeries still baffle me.
    There once was a place called
    Camelotimage
  • HalfStrikeHalfStrike Posts: 2,202 ✭✭✭
    Ebay is a scary place.image

    That means opportunity to those that aren't afraid.image
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    As Bear stated, counterfeiting coins has been going on for a very long time. Nothing new. As for new collectors dropping out of the hobby - so what? Collectors come and go all the time. I am not one who thinks we have to 'recruit' coin collectors. I could care less if anyone joins in or drops out. I collect for my own pleasure. Cheers, RickO
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,301 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>As Bear stated, counterfeiting coins has been going on for a very long time. Nothing new. As for new collectors dropping out of the hobby - so what? Collectors come and go all the time. I am not one who thinks we have to 'recruit' coin collectors. I could care less if anyone joins in or drops out. I collect for my own pleasure. Cheers, RickO >>



    You may want to sell your collection some day. Wouldn't it be nice if there were still a few collectors around to buy your coins?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • BearBear Posts: 18,954 ✭✭
    Along with collecting and enjoyment of the hobby, we need a sense of security
    against forgeries, over grading, ATing, modifying rare coins outside of the Mint.
    When one starts to spend hundres , thousands and hundreds of thousands of
    dollars for coins, we can not always rely on our own experience and expertise.
    Any person that is willing to purchase a raw coin for thousands of dollars, especially
    gold, is either a past PCGS, grading master, or is very foolish with their money,
    indeed.
    There once was a place called
    Camelotimage
  • An experienced collector would never buy that coin thinking it's real. It's a really bad replica.
    It the inexperienced collectors that are going to get screwed if they don't take the time to
    educate themselves before they start buying stuff.
  • LindeDadLindeDad Posts: 18,766 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>An experienced collector would never buy that coin thinking it's real. It's a really bad replica.
    It the inexperienced collectors that are going to get screwed if they don't take the time to
    educate themselves before they start buying stuff. >>



    No different than buying off of TV right here in the USA buying real coins for way more than there worth.
    Somebody keeps them going.
    Edited to add any body want a BALLISTIC ROLL OF PRESENDENTAL DOLLARS.
  • BearBear Posts: 18,954 ✭✭
    The term experienced has a myriad of definitions. It could mean that one has been
    collecting for many years but remains as dumb as a rock. An experienced collector
    may know how to grade but is still unable to identify puttied gold or really first class
    phony coins. Then an experienced collector will generally protect themselves with a
    coin slabbed by PCGS in order to obtain the peace of mind ,with the company guarantee.

    Finally there are the vast multitude of sardines like me, who just do not get to see tens of
    thousands of coins, year in and year out to gain the experience. I may be a big sardine
    even a big , experienced sardine, butI still need the expertise and reassurance PCGS gives.image
    There once was a place called
    Camelotimage


  • << <i>An experienced collector would never buy that coin thinking it's real. It's a really bad replica.
    It the inexperienced collectors that are going to get screwed if they don't take the time to
    educate themselves before they start buying stuff. >>



    I wouldnt say i was educated or experienced in those nickels, i didnt like to say earlier but i totally agree it doesnt look a particularly good replica.Especially the obverse.
  • At some point most of the better rare coins will be slabbed w/ TrueVue or something similar, you look at a coin, check it out on line and see if it's okay, then decide whether you want it or not. This junk however can scare new collectors away, inhibiting the growth of the hobby.
  • GrumpyEdGrumpyEd Posts: 4,749 ✭✭✭


    << <i>So, you bought this little baby off Ebay? Then you need to file a not as described complaint, neg the seller and destroy the coin (Ebay will let you do that rather than return it). >>



    image

    You can also donate the coin to ANA for learning purposes.

    image
    Ed
  • 19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,470 ✭✭✭✭
    The Chinese are doing what the Chinese have always done! Make counterfeit knock offs. They did it when I was a kid back in the 50's and they're doing it today because thats what they do!

    The next opportunity I have, I'll look at Beth Disher's display because the Chinese counterfeits I've seen are simply of very poor quality. Yes, they could fool you in a photograph but definitely not in hand.

    As for the real problem? Well, since the Chinese are simply doing what they do best, I believe that the real problem is the scum bags that resell this stuff as real. Sure, having replica stamped on the coin would solve a lot of easy situations but it'll never keep the greedy fool and his money together. The reality is that for every fool that exists, there's a PT Barnum out there whose more than willing to releive him of his hard earned cash.

    Is it a problem for the hobby? Sure, just as big a problem as the phoney Gucci Bags, the fake Rolex Watches and pirated software and DVD's are for their industries!

    The bottom line is that if you're not smart enough to educate yourself on what you are purchasing then no amount of education or regulation is going to help you.

    << <i>So, you bought this little baby off Ebay? Then you need to file a not as described
    complaint, neg the seller and destroy the coin (Ebay will let you do that rather than
    return it). >>

    BTW, should I destroy my counterfeit IKE's or are these not important enough? How about folks that have Henning Nickels? Should they make their way to the waffling machine?

    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
  • cameron12xcameron12x Posts: 1,384 ✭✭✭
    Increasingly, due to the manufacturing capability of China, and the myriad of potentially unregulated distribution channels, this means:

    "Buyer beware."
  • cameron12xcameron12x Posts: 1,384 ✭✭✭
    I also really believe that the large distribution channels (e.g. Ebay) need to pay a price for allowing this to happen with such regularity and volume.

    They need to be sanctioned, put on notice, and perhaps even taken to court with monetary penalties meted out. That might help...

    Sample Replica Search 1

    Sample Replica Search 2
  • OKbustchaserOKbustchaser Posts: 5,438 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So what difference does it make? If a collector can't tell the difference then to him it's still real. As for resale value people who invest in ANYTHING should be ready to lose their money if they aren't willing to also invest the time and effort necessary--even if that effort merely amounts to researching the reputation of the seller/certification company.

    As Ricko said above I really couldn't care less if people leave the hobby. People have left before; people will continue to leave. Those people will be replaced over time by others. This has gone on for as long as the hobby has existed.
    Just because I'm old doesn't mean I don't love to look at a pretty bust.
  • cameron12xcameron12x Posts: 1,384 ✭✭✭
    Any additional thoughts about RCs?
  • mrearlygoldmrearlygold Posts: 17,858 ✭✭✭
    There are lowlifes everywhere. I choose to focus on the heaps of new money that's been coming in from the Chinese and not the few jerks .image

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