Buy the COIN not the HOLDER...1867 Gold Dollar *Back from PCGS!*
ambro51
Posts: 13,922 ✭✭✭✭✭
I got the 1867 Gold Dollar in today, and will get a battery for the camera and post a photo later...but WOWZER I am totally blown away by that coin. Easily the prettiest of all the coins Ive got in this series, it has a stunning crisp strike, smooth brilliant fields and a cameo portrait and wreath. The Dentils are sharp, well formed and precise. There appears to be a wire edge. Its just..............well, stunning in every respect.
Yeah. Its in an NNC holder, and it went through the entire ebay auction period without a single bid starting at $499 and I bought it after the auction ended from the seller.
$499
Based on my experience with this series, I have very very little doubt this is indeed an MS64 coin. I also have little doubt it will retain the ProofLike designation should I choose to submit it with NGC.
PCGS lists this coin in the price guide at $3200 in MS 64. And like I said, based on my experience with this series, this coin is in every respect an MS64
So, "buy the COIN not the HOLDER" this is a good illlustration of how being in a second tier holder has given me both a great coin at an excellent bargain price, and also shows in vivid sorry detail how much NOT being in a first tier holder can DECREASE the value of an excellent coin.
gotta get battery for the camera (and FIND the camera, missing since wife went on her Woodstock trip...O Where did she put it? Buried in the trunk of her VW Convert?)
Yeah. Its in an NNC holder, and it went through the entire ebay auction period without a single bid starting at $499 and I bought it after the auction ended from the seller.
$499
Based on my experience with this series, I have very very little doubt this is indeed an MS64 coin. I also have little doubt it will retain the ProofLike designation should I choose to submit it with NGC.
PCGS lists this coin in the price guide at $3200 in MS 64. And like I said, based on my experience with this series, this coin is in every respect an MS64
So, "buy the COIN not the HOLDER" this is a good illlustration of how being in a second tier holder has given me both a great coin at an excellent bargain price, and also shows in vivid sorry detail how much NOT being in a first tier holder can DECREASE the value of an excellent coin.
gotta get battery for the camera (and FIND the camera, missing since wife went on her Woodstock trip...O Where did she put it? Buried in the trunk of her VW Convert?)
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Comments
<< <i>I KNOW! But the only drug store in town with the batteries has closed becuse of the Blizzard!
Excuses, excuses. You are not much of a boy scout...you know, always prepared.
Congrats on your coin! Sounds like a great score! I'll give ya $550 for it!
arghhhhhh
on ebay.
heck, even the seller uses the language of uncirculated details....
which is never a good sign. it basically means a problem coin.
ah yes. here is the link.
NNC Link
Read the post by walkerman.
<< <i>some pretty poor pictures....but its only an iPhone. This looks REALLY nice in hand! seriously, it reallllly does. I give it a 64 very heavy die clashing, the wreath is impressed onto the obverse, thats the lines behind the headress, LIBERTY is in an arc below the date.
What's up with the patch of hairines above AR on the reverse? Are they hairlines?
if its in an nnc holder theres a reason why.
I would love to be proved wrong in this case
the top services sent it back in a bodybag saying struck counterfeit
I hope you have better luck
Sorry the pics are not the best.
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
Good luck with the coin.
<< <i>
It may be the pic but it looks lightly cleaned or polished. I hope I'm wrong.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Going through the descriptions of the 30 or so of these that Heritage has sold over the past decade and a half, that bit of granularity inside the wreath area is a normal feature on this coin, regardless of grade. Also, it is heavily clashed.
I must say I REALLY like those joined wreath tops. They are a not so often seen feature with gold dollars, too bad they do not exist in the same designation realm as FBL, FS and whatever they call it when the bands are split on the back of Merc dimes.
Maybe ILL Start it! JWT (joined wreath tops)
Starting out with 5,200 struck, some of course entering circulation but many retained by numismatists....how many 'hard times' nearly provoked the melting of these coins, the federal recall of gold in 1930's, ignored......The boom in gold prices in the 80's, still this coin was held as a collectors piece all those years. Out of that original mintage...these 150 or so surviving pieces....struck during a year that Alaska was still owned by the Russians, and Revolutionary War Veterans were still with us....certainly a coin to treasure.
Going back through the auction catalogs of decades past, to see this date coin so seldom offered, realizing the rarity of the piece and the fact that today, I am its caretaker.....to hold it for generations in the future. Knowing that it will outlive me, and that it will be held by a collector 100, 200 years from now....puts this all in a new, yay, almost sacred light.
We are doing a unique thing here, my friends, we are preserving the past for the future. Let us never forget that.
whens it going to ngc?
Good luck
EAC 6024
<< <i>I hope you get the grade but I fear it's been polished.
Are you basing that on the images or the holder it's in?
I believe it is this coin.
Coin
1. The seller most likely knows what he is doing. He sells PCGS and NGC coins, and notes that the grading service for the coin is third-tier.
2. Having said that, if the coin were anything worth the NGC/PCGS MS-64 price that the OP claims, the seller would sell it at that price and not at $499.00.
But I could be wrong, but seriously, considering the circumstances, and the knowledge of the seller, I hardly doubt it.
<< <i>
<< <i>I hope you get the grade but I fear it's been polished.
Are you basing that on the images or the holder it's in? >>
The photo's primarily but really I would have more faith in the coin if it was raw than in that holder.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I hope you get the grade but I fear it's been polished.
Are you basing that on the images or the holder it's in? >>
The photo's primarily but really I would have more faith in the coin if it was raw than in that holder. >>
Thanks.
"iPhone with small achromat lens taped in front of main lens"-- a new photo technique- I think I'll call it the "Ambrotype!"
My fingers are crossed for you.
I think, however, that a Genuine holder (or whatever NGC calls them) awaits.
The first set of pics you posted appear to show some West to East lines on the reverse (see under DO in DOLLAR)
The second reverse pic you posted appears to have random lines under the DO with a few running North to South.
The third reverse pic you posted show no lines at all (see under DO).
Are there lines, clashes, polish lines.... on the reverse under the DO in DOLLAR ?
What I do believe is that there are good coins in bad holders so while I understand those that say there is a reason it's in an NNC holder.....I would prefer to judge the coin on it's own merit vs basing it on the plastic. Some might remember that I got an awesome 3 cent silver in an NNC holder that most thought was MS and it was graded AU55 by NNC and features beautiful classic album toning. Like your coin...it did not draw more than opening bid and I was the only bidder.
<< <i>Based on the overall quality of the photo's I really cant hazzard a guess on what it would be graded but as far as surface marks (hits) in the first set of photos it could go MS64. I can tell what's clashing vs potential hairlines in and of the images so
What I do believe is that there are good coins in bad holders so while I understand those that say there is a reason it's in an NNC holder.....I would prefer to judge the coin on it's own merit vs basing it on the plastic. Some might remember that I got an awesome 3 cent silver in an NNC holder that most thought was MS and it was graded AU55 by NNC and features beautiful classic album toning. Like your coin...it did not draw more than opening bid and I was the only bidder.
Shane, based on the OP's images I would have guessed MS63 or possibly MS64 for the grade. But did you see the reverse of the Ebay image that Darktone posted (and which he said is the same coin)? In that image, the coin appears to have been wiped.
<< <i>
<< <i>Based on the overall quality of the photo's I really cant hazzard a guess on what it would be graded but as far as surface marks (hits) in the first set of photos it could go MS64. I can tell what's clashing vs potential hairlines in and of the images so
What I do believe is that there are good coins in bad holders so while I understand those that say there is a reason it's in an NNC holder.....I would prefer to judge the coin on it's own merit vs basing it on the plastic. Some might remember that I got an awesome 3 cent silver in an NNC holder that most thought was MS and it was graded AU55 by NNC and features beautiful classic album toning. Like your coin...it did not draw more than opening bid and I was the only bidder.
Shane, based on the OP's images I would have guessed MS63 or possibly MS64 for the grade. But did you see the reverse of the Ebay image that Darktone posted (and which he said is the same coin)? In that image, the coin appears to have been wiped. >>
Yes I was hoping that some of that might be artifacts of the clashing and some might be artifacts of the bad images. Overall I would expect the op to see something as dramatic as a whiping on the reverse so I guess I am hoping that we are seeing something in the images that isn't on the coin....possibly something on the holder itself
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Based on the overall quality of the photo's I really cant hazzard a guess on what it would be graded but as far as surface marks (hits) in the first set of photos it could go MS64. I can tell what's clashing vs potential hairlines in and of the images so
What I do believe is that there are good coins in bad holders so while I understand those that say there is a reason it's in an NNC holder.....I would prefer to judge the coin on it's own merit vs basing it on the plastic. Some might remember that I got an awesome 3 cent silver in an NNC holder that most thought was MS and it was graded AU55 by NNC and features beautiful classic album toning. Like your coin...it did not draw more than opening bid and I was the only bidder.
Shane, based on the OP's images I would have guessed MS63 or possibly MS64 for the grade. But did you see the reverse of the Ebay image that Darktone posted (and which he said is the same coin)? In that image, the coin appears to have been wiped. >>
Yes I was hoping that some of that might be artifacts of the clashing and some might be artifacts of the bad images. Overall I would expect the op to see something as dramatic as a whiping on the reverse so I guess I am hoping that we are seeing something in the images that isn't on the coin....possibly something on the holder itself
That sure does look like wiping (on the coin) to me.
Does look like a pretty coin indeed. Perhaps a 63 instead of a 64 due to the chatter on the obverse of the coin?
As I recall I bought an NNC 1913 cent in MS65RB for $50 on eBay, and upon cracking and resubmitting, it made 65RD!
As I recall, I bought a PCI 1911-s cent in MS65RD for $600 on eBay. Submitted for crossover it failed, but cracked and submitted it made MS65RB.
As I recall, I bought an PCI 1914-s cent in AU58 that graded equivalently upon cracking.
My first graded 1914-d cent came in ICG MS62 plastic. Crossed equivalently.
Yeah, I know, they don't all work out like that, but...
Empty Nest Collection
What they show is that yes there are lines on the reverse but they are striations from die prep. This issue is noted for that. See how the lines go UNDER the letters?
Sorry.
It's been my experience that coins from the real "low down and diry" slab companies are at best over graded by two points. Many times they have issued that result in "genuine" holders .. if the coin is genuine.