If CAC had to grade raw coins ?

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS · November 27, 2009 11:47PM

They would probably come up with the same coins that are stickered or

We would see a different product with a green bean or

There would be more Body Bags than anytime in History or

ALL of the above

Stewart

ocon4008 · November 27, 2009 11:50PM

Everyone would complain about them not getting it right.

+1

got mine before the E.T.E. system strikes

ksteelheader · November 27, 2009 11:51PM

Who cares.

Halfhunter06 · November 27, 2009 11:55PM

well, on the surface we would have more body bags or more conservative grading.. on the inside people would just complain like they always do.

CertifiedGoldCoins · November 28, 2009 12:08AM

<< Who cares. >>

Same here.

drddm · November 28, 2009 12:16AM

I think the grades would be all over the place.

Would anyone here buy a RAW coin with a green bean on it?

Personally, I wouldn't, but hey, I wonder what others here think.

Green-beaned RAW coins anyone?

lkeigwin · November 28, 2009 12:18AM

None of the above.

If they survived to be a player they would be just another TPG making judgment calls as needed.
Lance.

drddm · November 28, 2009 12:24AM

If CAC is as good, reliable, and consistent as they claim, then why haven't they started their own TPGS?

I think they prefer to just give their opinions on what PROFESSIONAL graders think....JMHO, that's all.

ocon4008 · November 28, 2009 12:32AM

Please don't accuse me of being a coin doctor, but I prefer my green beans cooked. With almonds not sulfur.

ricko · November 28, 2009 1:13AM

I have said since the inception of CAC that they would, eventually, grade coins. Cheers, RickO

Goldbully · November 28, 2009 1:18AM

<< I have said since the inception of CAC that they would, eventually, grade coins. Cheers, RickO >>

Wouldn't surprise me either.

Broadstruck · November 28, 2009 1:23AM

BaseballAbs · November 28, 2009 1:31AM

IF they had to grade raw coins the would have no place to put the sticker. Unless they did it after it was graded which is what they do. Silly question!

oreville · November 28, 2009 1:33AM

Won't happen.

They have been there, done that.

lcoopie · November 28, 2009 2:30AM

it would cost a lot more than $10

darktone · November 28, 2009 3:39AM

<< 

<< Who cares. >>

Same here. >>

Me too.

SilverEagles92 · November 28, 2009 4:22AM

<< 

<< 

<< Who cares. >>

Same here. >>

Me too. >>

WoodenJefferson · November 28, 2009 4:23AM

coinguy1 · November 28, 2009 5:36AM

<< If CAC is as good, reliable, and consistent as they claim, then why haven't they started their own TPGS?

>>

Precisely how "good, reliable, and consistent" have you actually seen them "claim" to be? Perhaps you could link some of their ads and/or statements from CAC's founder to that effect? I bet not, though.

In answer to your question, however - because they have no interest in starting their own TPGS.

ksteelheader · November 28, 2009 5:37AM

<<

>>

Eventually, both type of beans become crap.

Bear · November 28, 2009 5:42AM

Ken, now that's funny.

MrEureka · November 28, 2009 5:58AM

... they have no interest in starting their own TPGS.

Correct. They are a 4PGS by design.

ocon4008 · November 28, 2009 6:05AM

Is this still here.

bushmaster8 · November 28, 2009 6:15AM

<< They would probably come up with the same coins that are stickered or

We would see a different product with a green bean or

There would be more Body Bags than anytime in History or

ALL of the above

Stewart >>

Huh? I must be dumbed down w/turkkey (Or jaegermeister}, please try to speak m-o-r-e c-l-e-a-r-l-y.

coinkat · November 28, 2009 9:29AM

It may in fact be a different ballgame...

Is it time to start over??

Boom · November 28, 2009 9:59AM

To address the hypothetical as posed -

IF CAC had to grade raw coins, I'm sure they
could & are more than capable of doing so!

MICHAELDIXON · November 28, 2009 10:33AM

They would probably grade comparable to NGC! And...I wonder why?

TwoSides2aCoin · November 28, 2009 10:56AM

If they had to grade them for a living, they'd probably get sick of it and become full time dealers.

IGWT · November 28, 2009 11:05AM

<< Precisely how "good, reliable, and consistent" have you actually seen them "claim" to be? Perhaps you could link some of their ads and/or statements from CAC's founder to that effect? I bet not, though. >>

Perhaps not CAC itself, but its investors/principals hawk stickered coins like carnival barkers. As just one example, an ad that runs continually in CoinWorld: "[We] invite you to enjoy the security and pofitability of buying only the best - those rare coins that meet the rigorous grading standards that John Albanese set for [us], and that he is now perpetuating through CAC. . . . [CAC] has made it possible for coin buyers to identify coins that are premium quality for the grade." These sales pitches come without any disclosure of their interests in CAC. (By the way, this dealer claims that every coin it has sold since 1998 has been "selected and approved by Mr. Albanese," implying that every coin it has sold over the past 12 years meets CAC's standards.)

mozin · November 28, 2009 11:19AM

I wonder whether or not CAC is as CONSISTENT in grading as is PCGS, or possibly more consistent?

IGWT · November 29, 2009 6:39AM

Precisely how "good, reliable, and consistent" have you actually seen them "claim" to be? Perhaps you could link some of their ads and/or statements from CAC's founder to that effect? I bet not, though.

Perhaps not CAC itself, but its investors/principals hawk stickered coins like carnival barkers. As just one example, an ad that runs continually in CoinWorld: "[We] invite you to enjoy the security and pofitability of buying only the best - those rare coins that meet the rigorous grading standards that John Albanese set for [us], and that he is now perpetuating through CAC. . . . [CAC] has made it possible for coin buyers to identify coins that are premium quality for the grade." These sales pitches come without any disclosure of their interests in CAC. (By the way, this dealer claims that every coin it has sold since 1998 has been "selected and approved by Mr. Albanese," implying that every coin it has sold over the past 12 years meets CAC's standards.)

Didn't like that answer?

coinguy1 · November 29, 2009 7:02AM

<< Precisely how "good, reliable, and consistent" have you actually seen them "claim" to be? Perhaps you could link some of their ads and/or statements from CAC's founder to that effect? I bet not, though.

Perhaps not CAC itself, but its investors/principals hawk stickered coins like carnival barkers. As just one example, an ad that runs continually in CoinWorld: "[We] invite you to enjoy the security and pofitability of buying only the best - those rare coins that meet the rigorous grading standards that John Albanese set for [us], and that he is now perpetuating through CAC. . . . [CAC] has made it possible for coin buyers to identify coins that are premium quality for the grade." These sales pitches come without any disclosure of their interests in CAC. (By the way, this dealer claims that every coin it has sold since 1998 has been "selected and approved by Mr. Albanese," implying that every coin it has sold over the past 12 years meets CAC's standards.)

Didn't like that answer?

>>

Lou, it was almost on point, and I didn't like it or dislike it. That said, I addressed my question to a different poster, in reply to his remarks. And he probably based his comments on other things he had seen and/or imagined.

Elcontador · November 29, 2009 7:03AM

IGWT - I don't have a dog in this fight. Albanese started CAC because he wanted to help distinguish what he thought were nice coins for the grade from coins that were product.

The man is clearly one of the good guys in this business. He doesn't need the money. He doesn't need additional fame or fortune. He knows how to grade coins; a disturbing number of people who buy and sell them don't (know how to grade coins). He doesn't know me from Adam, but spent 20 minutes speaking with me on the phone, answering my pointed questions about CAC when it began. He is not pretentious, he is not arrogant, and unlike many in this business, he is NOT an a@@hole.

At $10 per coin (I think that's what CAC gets, so I don't know firsthand), CAC is not getting rich. As grading is one's opinion about the preservation state of a coin, so is making the decision re which coins are nice for the grade. While one the whole, the stickered coins I've seen seem be be nice for the grade, I've seen a number of stickered Liberty Nickels where I've taken exception to the sticker.

As for the ad that you cite, this business is all about marketing, so one must expect that sort of thing. Those in the know expect that sort of thing from whatever source, and discount it, accordingly.

ksteelheader · November 29, 2009 7:06AM

<< IGWT - I don't have a dog in this fight. Albanese started CAC because he wanted to help distinguish what he thought were nice coins for the grade from coins that were product.

The man is clearly one of the good guys in this business. He doesn't need the money. He doesn't need additional fame or fortune. He knows how to grade coins; a disturbing number of people who buy and sell them don't (know how to grade coins). He doesn't know me from Adam, but spent 20 minutes speaking with me on the phone, answering my pointed questions about CAC when it began. He is not pretentious, he is not arrogant, and unlike many in this business, he is NOT an a@@hole.

At $10 per coin (I think that's what CAC gets, so I don't know firsthand), CAC is not getting rich. As grading is one's opinion about the preservation state of a coin, so is making the decision re which coins are nice for the grade. While one the whole, the stickered coins I've seen seem be be nice for the grade, I've seen a number of stickered Liberty Nickels where I've taken exception to the sticker.

As for the ad that you cite, this business is all about marketing, so one must expect that sort of thing. Those in the know expect that sort of thing from whatever source, and discount it, accordingly. >>

And marketing is about making money.

EOM

coinguy1 · November 29, 2009 7:11AM

<< 

<< IGWT - I don't have a dog in this fight. Albanese started CAC because he wanted to help distinguish what he thought were nice coins for the grade from coins that were product.

The man is clearly one of the good guys in this business. He doesn't need the money. He doesn't need additional fame or fortune. He knows how to grade coins; a disturbing number of people who buy and sell them don't (know how to grade coins). He doesn't know me from Adam, but spent 20 minutes speaking with me on the phone, answering my pointed questions about CAC when it began. He is not pretentious, he is not arrogant, and unlike many in this business, he is NOT an a@@hole.

At $10 per coin (I think that's what CAC gets, so I don't know firsthand), CAC is not getting rich. As grading is one's opinion about the preservation state of a coin, so is making the decision re which coins are nice for the grade. While one the whole, the stickered coins I've seen seem be be nice for the grade, I've seen a number of stickered Liberty Nickels where I've taken exception to the sticker.

As for the ad that you cite, this business is all about marketing, so one must expect that sort of thing. Those in the know expect that sort of thing from whatever source, and discount it, accordingly. >>

And marketing is about making money.

EOM >>

Ken, that is certainly almost always the case. However, as best I can tell from what IGWT/Lou posted, the ad in question was not a CAC ad. But I doubt that matters to you (and some others).

IGWT · November 29, 2009 7:30AM

However, as best I can tell from what IGWT/Lou posted, the ad in question was not a CAC ad. But I doubt that matters to you [Ken] (and some others).

I'm among the "others" to whom it doesn't matter. And the distinction doesn't matter to me because CAC chooses to let it happen. But, like Elcontador, I don't have a dog in this fight.

keets · November 29, 2009 7:47AM

if CAC had to grade raw coins they would be encountering the same problems as the other major grading services do in addition to having to grade the full range of US and perhaps World coinage. not that the personnel at CAC aren't up to that task, but look at things realistically-----they are only seeing certain coin series' and coins that the submitters have a reasonable expectation of the grade being what it already is.

to be honest, i'm surprised it took as long as it did for a shearer to gather the flock for fleecing.

ksteelheader · November 29, 2009 7:49AM

<< 

<< 

<< IGWT - I don't have a dog in this fight. Albanese started CAC because he wanted to help distinguish what he thought were nice coins for the grade from coins that were product.

The man is clearly one of the good guys in this business. He doesn't need the money. He doesn't need additional fame or fortune. He knows how to grade coins; a disturbing number of people who buy and sell them don't (know how to grade coins). He doesn't know me from Adam, but spent 20 minutes speaking with me on the phone, answering my pointed questions about CAC when it began. He is not pretentious, he is not arrogant, and unlike many in this business, he is NOT an a@@hole.

At $10 per coin (I think that's what CAC gets, so I don't know firsthand), CAC is not getting rich. As grading is one's opinion about the preservation state of a coin, so is making the decision re which coins are nice for the grade. While one the whole, the stickered coins I've seen seem be be nice for the grade, I've seen a number of stickered Liberty Nickels where I've taken exception to the sticker.

As for the ad that you cite, this business is all about marketing, so one must expect that sort of thing. Those in the know expect that sort of thing from whatever source, and discount it, accordingly. >>

And marketing is about making money.

EOM >>

Ken, that is certainly almost always the case. However, as best I can tell from what IGWT/Lou posted, the ad in question was not a CAC ad. But I doubt that matters to you (and some others). >>

That's because I don't buy into hype to make others rich.

TwoSides2aCoin · November 29, 2009 8:00AM

CAC isn't for everyone

coinguy1 · November 29, 2009 8:00AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< IGWT - I don't have a dog in this fight. Albanese started CAC because he wanted to help distinguish what he thought were nice coins for the grade from coins that were product.

The man is clearly one of the good guys in this business. He doesn't need the money. He doesn't need additional fame or fortune. He knows how to grade coins; a disturbing number of people who buy and sell them don't (know how to grade coins). He doesn't know me from Adam, but spent 20 minutes speaking with me on the phone, answering my pointed questions about CAC when it began. He is not pretentious, he is not arrogant, and unlike many in this business, he is NOT an a@@hole.

At $10 per coin (I think that's what CAC gets, so I don't know firsthand), CAC is not getting rich. As grading is one's opinion about the preservation state of a coin, so is making the decision re which coins are nice for the grade. While one the whole, the stickered coins I've seen seem be be nice for the grade, I've seen a number of stickered Liberty Nickels where I've taken exception to the sticker.

As for the ad that you cite, this business is all about marketing, so one must expect that sort of thing. Those in the know expect that sort of thing from whatever source, and discount it, accordingly. >>

And marketing is about making money.

EOM >>

Ken, that is certainly almost always the case. However, as best I can tell from what IGWT/Lou posted, the ad in question was not a CAC ad. But I doubt that matters to you (and some others). >>

That's because I don't buy into hype to make others rich. >>

Good for you - seriously, though that might not have anything to do with the subject at hand.

I don't know anyone who is getting rich off the "hype" you refer to. I have seen you advocate not taking comments from others at face value, so I am sure you can understand why I don't take it as a given that you are correct in your conclusions. Nor do I expect you to take it as a given that my conclusions are correct. But since you made the insinuation, how about if you "show me the money"? Or, more accurately, the (make others rich) profits.

Edited to add: I'm not going to drag this out any further by posting to this thread again, but I look forward to your backing up what you have claimed.

keets · November 29, 2009 8:06AM

Mark, you evidentally haven't learned anything in your abscence if what you plan to do is return from exile and argue the same points with the same people. that being the case, your misery will surely return and your stay will be short and uncomfortable.

ksteelheader · November 29, 2009 8:21AM

<< Mark, you evidentally haven't learned anything in your absence if what you plan to do is return from exile and argue the same points with the same people. that being the case, your misery will surely return and your stay will be short and uncomfortable. >>

He got pissed one day on the OFR coin forum and stormed off. Hasn't been back since. Same subject. Amazing!!

Maybe Mark will show how that the CAC thingy doesn't make money.

mommam17 · November 29, 2009 8:37AM

So what. You made the comment. Back it up.

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS · November 29, 2009 8:55AM

So many classic coins have already been graded by PCGS and NGC that when they see a fresh coin they believe they have never seen before it becomes a rarity. Does PCGS make grading mistakes ? Absolutely! Does NGC make grading mistakes ? YES !

CAC has come up with a brilliant marketing scheme stickering already graded coins so they can be worth more money.

Does that mean coins are worth less without a CAC sticker ? I don't think so.

Does that mean coins are worth more with a CAC sticker ? I personally do not think so.

Has CAC stopped coin doctoring ! No way Does CAC make mistakes ? Absolutely !

Stewart

Caveat Emptor

If CAC had to grade raw coins ?

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