National Debt
Bear
Posts: 18,953 ✭✭✭
Many Nations are in debt for more then they can ever be repay.
How long can this game of musical chairs continue, until a World Wide
Depression occurs. Even with Inflation,The debt is unmanageable. At some
point, the books have to be brought into balance. The price will then be paid
by the people. Governments never suffer, it is only people that suffer. Without
the rapid restoration of jobs, Federal and State income is plunging whilr costs are
exploding. More Americans are going hungry, homeless, as well as ill clothed. What
is the way out? PMs are nice, but you can not eat them or wear them. In a crash, people
will need practical things to use, to eat, to heat the home, to fuel cars ect, ect. How truly
does one prepare what might truly become reality?
How long can this game of musical chairs continue, until a World Wide
Depression occurs. Even with Inflation,The debt is unmanageable. At some
point, the books have to be brought into balance. The price will then be paid
by the people. Governments never suffer, it is only people that suffer. Without
the rapid restoration of jobs, Federal and State income is plunging whilr costs are
exploding. More Americans are going hungry, homeless, as well as ill clothed. What
is the way out? PMs are nice, but you can not eat them or wear them. In a crash, people
will need practical things to use, to eat, to heat the home, to fuel cars ect, ect. How truly
does one prepare what might truly become reality?
There once was a place called
Camelot
Camelot
0
Comments
I knew it would happen.
I read an interesting thread a while back which was a first hand account of the financial collapse in Argentina circa 1999. He had lots of good practical first hand advice. Having the most high tech guns and a basement full of ammo was not the way to go. I remember the guy said the most important thing was to get/stay in physical shape and get any nagging health issues tended to asap while it's avalaible. It's not going to be fun having a tooth ache or have broken glasses with no where to get that stuff taken care of. Even if you can take out some bad guy at 1000 yards, it's not gonna help if you can't walk 10 miles or run for 20 minutes without passing out. He also said forget your collector's grade bullion. It was all about junk silver and gold. He said he wished he had accumulated a pile of gold rings because that was what a lot of people used as cash.
I'll see if I can find the link somewhere...
found it The orginal forum this was posted to is closed now. Interesting read.
practically. People know the ring of silver and the US coin is
in convenient denominations for silver conversion. Other
then that, would seem to be a storage of canned foods or long
lasting MRE type foods, along with a supply of ones medications
and a reasonable supply of first aid materials and antibiotic ointment.
Large plastic trash bags as well as self generating radios , lights as
well as candles. I never thought the American people would again be
facing a crises, like the one that seems to be approaching.
Camelot
Last I read they told the IMF / World Bank to get stuffed and there's not much the powers that be can do about it so far. LOL
<< <i>Well you know they had a complete financial collapse in Iceland and the place didn't fall apart so it all depends on how people choose to behave.
>>
Civilization is a very thin veneer. But keep in mind that a great deal depends
on whether or not the people have enough food, water, clothing and shelter.
Without all of these you can't have a calm populace.
A financial panic wouldn't have to mean pandemonium especially in a country as
wealthy as the US. We easily can produce the things we need to survive so it's
just a matter of doing it.
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>I believe that bulk bags of silver coins would probably most
practically. People know the ring of silver and the US coin is
in convenient denominations for silver conversion. Other
then that, would seem to be a storage of canned foods or long
lasting MRE type foods, along with a supply of ones medications
and a reasonable supply of first aid materials and antibiotic ointment.
Large plastic trash bags as well as self generating radios , lights as
well as candles. I never thought the American people would again be
facing a crises, like the one that seems to be approaching. >>
Bear, your list of "goodies" is best applied to natural disasters that are temporary. Can a person really cram enough food in their basement to last their family for multiple years? If the global monetary system fails as we know it, gold and silver will fill that void MUCH faster than you think. I can stockpile enough gold in a coffee can to buy my family food for 5 yrs and be very mobile if I need to be. Try buying enough spaghetti ohs to feed your family for 5 yrs though. Better yet, try taking it with you if you happen to be displaced!!!
All of this said, I have no concerns for an imminent collapse of the American way of life. Things have been far worse than they are now in the past and our country pulled through. I'm far more given to optimism regarding our current standing than I am to the reactionary panic that seems so popular with a large portion of people. Ironically, the reason I feel that I'm so well set up for sustainable living is that I have a lot less money than a lot of people here and as a result planning for the least amount of expenses and "necessities" possible is my smartest option. I'd rather not have to plow the back 40 so to speak, but do you think (for example) the Amish are worried about the destruction of their way of life due to total economic collapse?
Buy PMs, stockpile food and sundries, learn how to truly fend for yourself. These are all good ideas. But lighten up. Odds are strong that your back will never be so hard pressed up against a wall that you'll really have to depend on these things.
<< <i>People know the ring of silver and the US coin is in convenient denominations for silver conversion. >>
-----------------------------------
Indeed it is and 20X face is not that far into the future...............
100% Positive BST transactions
In the "plowing the North 40" scenario presented one would have to be prepared to fend off looters who will want those crops (ie applying deadly force). Having a weapon is one thing, using it to kill is another. More than likely the shooter will end up in jail where the north 40, wood pile, and hand tools won't do him much good. It's not the 1930's anymore where landowners and property rights were still widely supported. Today the victim has the most rights.
roadrunner
and growing, GM,UAL,etc.....Watch Cities and Counties go begging in near future.
Local news: City of Insane Diego considering BK option to shed retiree benefits
($100,000+ annual pensions at age 50/55 number in the thousands)
and that just 1 City.............. Over 3000 administrators in the UC system here in CA
earn over $200,000 per year. Total Compensation incl. 40 yrs or retirement
is North of $500,000 per year.
100% Positive BST transactions
of the referents like "children of the neck" are toddlers and infants who must
be carried on the neck.
This is an ancient version of CalicoJack's link. It is probably from around 1700
BC and is either desribing events from Egypts First Intermediate period circa
2200 BC or, more likely from the 2nd inter per. Both of these were utter fail-
ures of central control. This is the way a barter economy fails;
I
The door [keepers] say: "Let us go and plunder."
The confectioners .
The washerman refuses to carry his load
The bird [catchers] have drawn up in line of battle [ the inhabitants] of the Delta carry shields.
The brewers sad.
A man regards his son as his enemy. Confusion another. Come and conquer; judge what was ordained for you in the time of Horus, in the age [of the Ennead ]. The virtuous man goes in mourning because of what has happened in the land goes the tribes of the desert have become Egyptians everywhere.
Indeed, the face is pale; what the ancestors foretold has arrived at [fruition ] the land is full of confederates, and a man goes to plough with his shield.
Indeed, the meek say: ["He who is of] face is as a well-born man."
Indeed, [the face] is pale; the bowman is ready, wrongdoing is everywhere, and there is no man of yesterday.
Indeed, the plunderer everywhere, and the servant takes what he finds.
Indeed, the Nile overflows, yet none plough for it [I/1]. Everyone says: "We do not know what will happen throughout the land."
Indeed, the women are barren and none conceive. Khnum fashions (men) no more because of the condition of the land.
II
Indeed, poor men have become owners of wealth, and he who could not make sandals for himself is now a possessor of riches.
Indeed, men's slaves, their hearts are sad, and magistrates do not fraternize with their people when they shout.
Indeed, [hearts] are violent, pestilence is throughout the land, blood is everywhere, death is not lacking, and the mummy-cloth speaks even before one comes near it.
Indeed, many dead are buried in the river; the stream is a sepulcher and the place of embalmment has become a stream.
Indeed, noblemen are in distress, while the poor man is full of joy. Every town says: "Let us suppress the powerful among us." [II/1]
Indeed, men are like ibises. Squalor is throughout the land, and there are none indeed whose clothes are white in these times.
Indeed, the land turns around as does a potter's wheel; the robber is a possessor of riches and [the rich man is become] a plunderer.
Indeed, trusty servants are ; the poor man [complains]: "How terrible! What am I to do?"
Indeed, the river is blood, yet men drink of it. Men shrink from human beings and thirst after water. [II/2]
Indeed, gates, columns and walls are burnt up [II/3], while the hall of the palace stands firm and endures.
Indeed, the ship of [the southerners] has broken up; towns are destroyed and Upper Egypt has become an empty waste.
Indeed, crocodiles [are glutted] with the fish they have taken, for men go to them of their own accord [II/4]; it is the destruction of the land. Men say: "Do not walk here; behold, it is a net." Behold, men tread [the water] like fishes, and the frightened man cannot distinguish it because of terror.
Indeed, men are few, and he who places his brother in the ground is everywhere. When the wise man speaks, [he flees without delay].
Indeed, the well-born man through lack of recognition, and the child of his lady has become the son of his maidservant.
III
Indeed, the desert is throughout the land, the nomes are laid waste, and barbarians [III/1] from abroad have come to Egypt[III/2].
Indeed, men arrive and indeed, there are no Egyptians [III/3] anywhere.
Indeed, gold and lapis lazuli, silver and turquoise, carnelian and amethyst, Ibhet-stone and are strung on the necks of maidservants. Good things are throughout the land, (yet) housewives say: "Oh that we had something to eat!"
Indeed, noblewomen. Their bodies are in sad plight by reason of their rags, and their hearts sink when greeting [one another]. Indeed, chests of ebony are broken up, and precious ssndm-wood is cleft asunder in beds .
Indeed, the builders [of pyramids have become] cultivators, and those who were in the sacred bark are now yoked [to it]. None shall indeed sail northward to Byblos today; what shall we do for cedar trees for our mummies, and with the produce of which priests are buried and with the oil of which [chiefs] are embalmed as far as Keftiu? They come no more; gold is lacking and materials for every kind of craft have come to an end. The of the palace is despoiled. How often do people of the oases come with their festival spices, mats, and skins, with fresh rdmt-plants, grease of birds ?
Indeed, Elephantine and Thinis of Upper Egypt, (but) without paying taxes owing to civil strife. Lacking are grain, charcoal, irtyw-fruit, m'w-wood, nwt-wood, and brushwood. The work of craftsmen and are the profit of the palace. To what purpose is a treasury without its revenues? Happy indeed is the heart of the king when truth comes to him! And every foreign land [comes]! That is our fate and that is our happiness! What can we do about it? All is ruin!
Indeed, laughter is perished and is [no longer] made; it is groaning that is throughout the land, mingled with complaints.
IV
Indeed, every dead person is as a well-born man. Those who were Egyptians [have become] foreigners and are thrust aside.
Indeed, hair [has fallen out] for everybody, and the man of rank can no longer be distinguished from him who is nobody.
Indeed, because of noise; noise is not in years of noise, and there is no end [of] noise.
Indeed, great and small [say]: "I wish I might die." Little children say: "He should not have caused [me] to live."
Indeed, the children of princes are dashed against walls, and the children of the neck [IV/1] are laid out on the high ground [IV/2].
Indeed, those who were in the place of embalmment are laid out on the high ground, and the secrets of the embalmers are thrown down because of it.
Indeed, that has perished which yesterday was seen, and the land is left over to its weakness like the cutting of flax.
Indeed, the Delta in its entirety will not be hidden, and Lower Egypt puts trust in trodden roads. What can one do? No exist anywhere, and men say: "Perdition to the secret place!" Behold, it is in the hands of those who do not know it like those who know it. The desert dwellers are skilled in the crafts [IV/3] of the Delta.
Indeed, citizens are put to the corn-rubbers, and those who used to don fine linen are beaten with Those who used never to see the day have gone out unhindered; those who were on their husbands' beds, let them lie on rafts. I say: "It is too heavy for me," concerning rafts bearing myrrh. Load them with vessels filled with [ Let] them know the palanquin. As for the butler, he is ruined. There are no remedies for it; noblewomen suffer like maidservants, minstrels are at the looms within the weaving-rooms, and what they sing to the Songstress-goddess is mourning. Talkers corn-rubbers.
Indeed, all female slaves are free with their tongues, and when their mistress speaks, it is irksome to the maidservants.
Indeed, trees are felled and branches are stripped off [IV/4].
V
I have separated him and his household slaves, and men will say when they hear it: "Cakes are lacking for most children; there is no food . What is the taste of it like today?"
Indeed, magnates are hungry and perishing, followers are followed because of complaints.
Indeed, the hot-tempered man says: "If I knew where God is, then I would serve Him."
Indeed, [Right] pervades the land in name, but what men do in trusting to it is Wrong.
Indeed, runners are fighting over the spoil [of ] the robber, and all his property is carried off.
Indeed, all animals, their hearts weep; cattle moan because of the state of the land.
Indeed, the children of princes are dashed against walls, and the children of the neck are laid out on the high ground. Khnum groans because of his weariness.
Indeed, terror kills; the frightened man opposes what is done against your enemies. Moreover, the few are pleased, while the rest are Is it by following the crocodile and cleaving it asunder? Is it by slaying the lion roasted on the fire? [Is it] by sprinkling for Ptah and taking ? Why do you give to him? There is no reaching him. It is misery which you give to him.
Indeed, slaves throughout the land, and the strong man sends to everyone; a man strikes his maternal brother. What is it that has been done? I speak to a ruined man.
Indeed, the ways are , the roads are watched [V/1]; men sit in the bushes until the benighted traveller comes in order to plunder his burden, and what is upon him is taken away. He is belaboured with blows of a stick and murdered.
Indeed, that has perished which yesterday was seen, and the land is left over to its weakness like the cutting of flax, commoners coming and going in dissolution .
VI
Would that there were an end of men, without conception, without birth! Then would the land be quiet from noise and tumult be no more.
Indeed, [men eat] herbage and wash [it] down with water; neither fruit nor herbage can be found [for] the birds, and is taken away from the mouth of the pig. No face is bright which you have for me through hunger.
Indeed, everywhere barley has perished and men are stripped of clothes, spice, and oil; everyone says: "There is none." The storehouse is empty and its keeper is stretched on the ground; a happy state of affairs!
Would that I had raised my voice at that moment, that it might have saved me from the pain in which I am.
Indeed, the private council-chamber, its writings are taken away and the mysteries which were [in it] are laid bare [VI/1].
Indeed, magic spells are divulged [VI/2]; smw- and shnw-spells [VI/3] are frustrated because they are remembered by men.
Indeed, public offices are opened and their inventories are taken away; the serf has become an owner of serfs.
Indeed, [scribes] are killed and their writings are taken away. Woe is me because of the misery of this time!
Indeed, the writings of the scribes of the cadaster are destroyed, and the corn of Egypt is common property [VI/4].
Indeed, the laws of the council chamber are thrown out; indeed, men walk on them in public places, and poor men break them up in the streets.
Indeed, the poor man has attained to the state of the Nine Gods, and the erstwhile procedure of the House of the Thirty [VI/5] is divulged.
Indeed, the great council-chamber is a popular resort, and poor men come and go to the Great Mansions.
Indeed, the children of magnates are ejected into the streets; the wise man agrees and the fool says "no," and it is pleasing in the sight of him who knows nothing about it.
Indeed, those who were in the place of embalmment are laid out on the high ground, and the secrets of the embalmers are thrown down because of it.
VII
Behold, the fire has gone up on high, and its burning goes forth against the enemies of the land.
Behold, things have been done which have not happened for a long time past; the king has been deposed by the rabble.
Behold, he who was buried as a falcon [VII/1] [is devoid] of biers, and what the pyramid concealed has become empty.
Behold, it has befallen that the land has been deprived of the kingship by a few lawless men.
Behold, men have fallen into rebellion against the Uraeus, the of Re, even she who makes the Two Lands content.
Behold, the secret of the land whose limits were unknown is divulged, and the Residence is thrown down in a moment.
Behold, Egypt is fallen to pouring of water, and he who poured water on the ground has carried off the strong man in misery.
Behold, the Serpent is taken from its hole, and the secrets of the Kings of Upper and Lower Egypt are divulged.
Behold, the Residence is afraid because of want, and [men go about] unopposed to stir up strife.
Behold, the land has knotted itself up with confederacies, and the coward takes the brave man's property.
Behold, the Serpent [VII/2] the dead: he who could not make a sarcophagus for himself is now the possessor of a tomb.
Behold, the possessors of tombs are ejected on to the high ground, while he who could not make a coffin for himself is now [the possessor] of a treasury.
Behold, this has happened [to] men; he who could not build a room for himself is now a possessor of walls.
Behold, the magistrates of the land are driven out throughout the land: are driven out from the palaces.
Behold, noble ladies are now on rafts, and magnates are in the labour establishment, while he who could not sleep even on walls is now the possessor of a bed [VII/3].
Behold, the possessor of wealth now spends the night thirsty, while he who once begged his dregs for himself is now the possessor of overflowing bowls.
Behold, the possessors of robes are now in rags, while he who could not weave for himself is now a possessor of fine linen.
Behold, he who could not build a boat for himself is now the possessor of a fleet; their erstwhile owner looks at them, but they are not his.
Behold, he who had no shade is now the possessor of shade, while the erstwhile possessors of shade are now in the full blast of the storm.
Behold, he who was ignorant of the lyre is now the possessor of a harp, while he who never sang for himself now vaunts the Songstress-goddess [VII/4].
Behold, those who possessed vessel-stands of copper not one of the jars thereof has been adorned.
VIII
Behold, he who slept wifeless through want [finds] riches, while he whom he never saw stands making dole.
Behold, he who had no property is now a possessor of wealth, and the magnate praises him.
Behold, the poor of the land have become rich, and the [erstwhile owner] of property is one who has nothing.
Behold, serving-men have become masters of butlers, and he who was once a messenger now sends someone else.
Behold, he who had no loaf is now the owner of a barn, and his storehouse is provided with the goods of another.
Behold, he whose hair is fallen out and who had no oil has now become the possessors of jars of sweet myrrh.
Behold, she who had no box is now the owner of a coffer, and she who had to look at her face in the water is now the owner of a mirror.
Behold, .
Behold, a man is happy eating his food. Consume your goods in gladness and unhindered, for it is good for a man to eat his food; God commands it for him whom He has favoured .
[Behold, he who did not know] his god now offers to him with incense of another [who is] not known [to him].
[Behold,] great ladies, once possessors of riches, now give their children for beds.
Behold, a man [to whom is given] a noble lady as wife, her father protects him, and he who has not killing him.
Behold, the children of magistrates are [ the calves] / of cattle [are given over] to the plunderers.
Behold, priests transgress with the cattle of the poor .
Behold, he who could not slaughter for himself now slaughters bulls, and he who did not know how to carve now sees .
Behold, priests transgress with geese, which are given [to] the gods instead of oxen.
Behold, maidservants offer ducks; noblewomen .
Behold, noblewomen flee; the overseers of and their [children] are cast down through fear of death.
[Behold,] the chiefs of the land flee; there is no purpose for them because of want. The lord of .
IX
[Behold,] those who once owned beds are now on the ground, while he who once slept in squalor now lays out a skin-mat for himself.
Behold, noblewomen go hungry, while the priests [IX/1] are sated with what has been prepared for them.
Behold, no offices are in their right place, like a herd running at random without a herdsman.
Behold, cattle stray and there is none to collect them, but everyone fetches for himself those that are branded with his name [IX/2].
Behold, a man is slain beside his brother, who runs away and abandons him to save his own skin.
Behold, he who had no yoke of oxen is now the owner of a herd, and he who could find for himself no ploughman is now the owner of cattle.
Behold, he who had no grain is now the owner of granaries, and he who had to fetch loan-corn for himself is now one who issues it.
Behold, he who had no dependents is now an owner of serfs, and he who was [a magnate] now performs his own errands.
Behold, the strong men of the land, the condition of the people is not reported [to them]. All is ruin!
Behold, no craftsmen work, for the enemies of the land have impoverished its craftsmen.
[Behold, he who once recorded] the harvest now knows nothing about it, while he who never ploughed [for himself is now the owner of corn; the reaping] takes place but is not reported. The scribe [sits in his office], but his hands [are idle] in it.
Destroyed is in that time, and a man looks [on his friend as] an adversary. The infirm man brings coolness [to what is hot ] fear [ / . . .]. Poor men [ the land] is not bright because of it.
X
Destroyed is their food is taken from them [ through] fear of his terror. The commoner begs messenger, but not time. He is captured laden with goods and [all his property] is taken away. men pass by his door the outside of the wall, a shed, and rooms containing falcons. It is the common man who will be vigilant, the day having dawned on him without his dreading it. Men run because of [ for] the temple of the head, strained through a woven cloth within the house. What they make are tents, just like the desert folk.
Destroyed is the doing of that for which men are sent by retainers in the service of their masters; they have no readiness.
Behold, they are five men, and they say: "Go on the road you know, for we have arrived."
Lower Egypt weeps; the king's storehouse is the common property of everyone, and the entire palace is without its revenues. To it belong emmer and barley, fowl and fish; to it belong white cloth and fine linen, copper and oil; to it belong carpet and mat, flowers and wheat-sheaf and all good revenues If the it in the palace were delayed, men would be devoid [of ].
Destroy the enemies of the august Residence, splendid of magistrates in it like ; indeed, the Governor of the City goes unescorted.
Destroy [the enemies of the august Residence,] splendid . [Destroy the enemies of] that erstwhile august Residence, manifold of laws . [Destroy the enemies of] that erstwhile august [Residence ].
Destroy the enemies of that erstwhile august Residence none can stand [. . .].
Destroy the enemies of that erstwhile august Residence, manifold of offices; indeed .
Remember to immerse him who is in pain when he is sick in his body; show respect because of his god that he may guard the utterance his children who are witnesses of the surging of the flood.
edited to fix link and delete some of the text; the rest is available here.
As long as we have trees, cotton and ink we will never be in trouble...
<< <i>Can we just give the Chinese California and call it good?
As long as we have trees, cotton and ink we will never be in trouble...
Now adays, all we need are Zeros and Ones.
OK, let's say the "recognized" balance sheet debt is X; approximately how much does it need to be increased to account for the off-balance sheet amount? Then, can we compare the total to GDP to get a comparative figure to other countries/economies that rely on central banks and fiat? I think that might be instructive.
Cohodk (?) seems to think that, in comparative terms, we are not in as bad shape as other industrialized countries.
I have talked to a lot of people whose opinion I greatly respect, and they seem to be throwing up their hands. To me, this lends credence to the people who follow Prechter's ideas about the industrialized countries entering a long period of pessimism.
While the debt is worrisome now, just wait until the powers that be at the fed decide to jack up interest rates.
Japan and the US are tied for last place. Trust me. Like the Browns vs Lions. MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Can the US government fix this debt? Of course, we put men on the moon, so the debt is relatively easy to fix.
Would the dollar become worthless? You won't see this in your lifetime, or you'll be too old to care! But let assume the worse for the dollar in the next few years when the dollar becomes worthless and you don't have silver or gold to buy food? Are you in serious trouble? Of course not! Has anyone thought of work? Instead of working for money, now you work in exchange for food!
If it happens that we (Americans) have to work for food, obviously the cost of labor in the US will dramatically decreased, thus cheaper labor in the US will bring most factories and jobs back to its homeland! This is only a theory in global demension of business, but it's pausible!
Look at Germany, after WWI, the Weimar Republic suffered hyperinflation, so German has to bring a wheelbarrow of cash to buy a loaf of bread; and look at them now! They are fine, and so we'll be fine!
Every dollar created is debt essentially, man this suff is confusing.
Bear, I'll add to your survival list, a magnesium stick, and a magnifying glass.
A couple of ways to create fire without a match.
scott