What's driving the generic gold coin boom?
291fifth
Posts: 24,529 ✭✭✭✭✭
A few weeks ago we read reports that the market for generic gold coins was very, very slow. Now we read that they are very hot once again. What has changed to cause this turnaround?
All glory is fleeting.
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Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
.......glenn beck!!
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Gold Supply "Runs Out"
Dollar Continues Decline
Treasury confident Congress will increase debt limit
Trade deficit jumps most in a decade
<< <i>.......glenn beck!!
Yep! I bet he has had a profound impact on the market. He reaches multiple millions of people daily and his constant rants and raves about the security of gold are sure to influence many people. I am just glad I didn't listen to him when he was ragging on the stock market and basically telling people to pull all their money out of stocks. Since then the market has risen 50%. You are kicking yourself if you did.
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Capital investment depends on confidence. - Martin Armstrong
<< <i>It's those MONEX adds on TV with the seductive blond that draws me in.
Gordon Liddy?
Capital investment depends on confidence. - Martin Armstrong
easily converted hard assets (metals) have a place when hyper inflation takes off
Poster 1: "Wow! Gold is at $20 an ounce!"
Poster 2: "Hoo boy! Climb that cliff!"
...
ten years later, in 1911, things progress thusly:
...
Poster 1: "Woo hoo! Gold is at $20 an ounce!"
Poster 2: "We really need a separate forum for this."
<< <i>
<< <i>.......glenn beck!!
Yep! I bet he has had a profound impact on the market. He reaches multiple millions of people daily and his constant rants and raves about the security of gold are sure to influence many people. I am just glad I didn't listen to him when he was ragging on the stock market and basically telling people to pull all their money out of stocks. Since then the market has risen 50%. You are kicking yourself if you did. >>
I remember him saying that at the end of 2007 around 13,000. I got out around then, not at his recommendation...that would be stupid. He's just a "rodeo clown.". I saved myself a 40% drop and made some on the way up from March. Not as much as I like because I don't trust it.
As far as gold it seems like Goldline has cornered the radio market.
and seem to want out ,when prices are low. This mob mental state
could be a danger signal, as It means it could collapse on a moments
notice.
Camelot
<< <i>A combination of speculation and lemmings. >>
This lemming got on the gold wagon about 80% ago....
Camelot
<< <i>How about the govt printing press going full bore with no backing? The more dollars there are the less each is worth. This country is bankrupt. The debts can never be paid off. Gold is the only way to protect your wealth. Yeah sure the market has gone up. But you have not really made any money because the dollar has dropped so far. Do you need any more reasons? >>
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>It's those MONEX adds on TV with the seductive blond that draws me in.
No but this one will do it for me.
Hoard the keys.
But I also will buy an ounce every time it comes down $100, so unless it goes straight up with no pull backs, I don't expect to be completely goldless any time soon. And if it does go straight up to $2,500 without any pullbacks, I'm probably going to more concerned about making sure I have enough ammo.
Greg Hansen, Melbourne, FL Click here for any current EBAY auctions Multiple "Circle of Trust" transactions over 14 years on forum
WS
Favoured resident of the Hall of Gold, a 24 karat gold lavatory handcrafted and displayed in a showcase of gold artifacts by Hong Kong-based jewelry company Hang Fung Gold Technology, may be royally flushed for good should the price of the precious metal hit $1000 an ounce.
That's the most accurate answer yet. Most of the people that want gold coins at today's big prices would have never thought to buy these coins if it weren't for the efforts of the promoters.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Sometimes it's as simple as that............MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Rising prices increase demand.
My show inventory of gold coins is priced at full retail. They can pay the money or take a hike. I take cash only - I have found the people who have the money know how to find an ATM.
When I can buy nice gold at wholesale (or lower) I am a buyer.
For buying I like the following, as I am looking for nice coins relatively close to melt or that offer good basal value in that grade:
$20 Saints MS 65
$20 Libs MS 63
$10 Indians MS 63
$10 Libs MS 62
$5 Indians MS 62
$2.50 Indians MS 62
Some dealers are touting MS 66 Saints - This may be too much money above melt. I don't like USG where the next higher grade is a tremendous price jump above the previous grade column unless I can get them way back of bid.
Bear and andy have the most accurate answers IMHO.Promotors tell us daily on the media buy buy buy.The result is as stated the mob buys at the high.Any reasonable person has to know that there will be a pullback sooner or later.When or at what level NOBODY knows.As for me I am buying the coins that interest me , some bullion but also some coins with numismatic value.
Good luck finding those Gem Saints for close to melt.
My show inventory of gold coins is priced at full retail. They can pay the money or take a hike. I take cash only - I have found the people who have the money know how to find an ATM.
You can run your museum, er, business any way you want. To protect my account, I have a maximum of $400 daily withdrawal from my ATM card. All reputable dealers I know accept checks. Good thing for me.
It's not coin collectors driving this boom, I think that is safe to assume.
I knew it would happen.
It boils down to how much non-paper gold is still out there and how available it is. The paper gold game is getting longer in the tooth and the players who hold the biggest short postitions are getting squeezed hard. Generic gold coins are just one tiny part of the gold market. I still feel that a Gem MS65 saint that sells for 2.2X melt value is a bargain vs. things like a BU wheat cent that sells for 5-6X melt. Where does one find 80-100 year old sovereign issued choice to gem BU gold/silver coins at 2-3X melt? The monthly fluctuations up and down that affect the pog and hence the price of generic gold coins is coming from fluctuations in fiat currencies. Look no further than fiat for the source of volatility though in reading media articles they would have you believe that commodities/gold are the volatile elements.
And if one wants to look back at the late 1960's or early 1970's when gem saints and Morgans could be bought for slightly above the melt price that was an era when currencies were still backed by something. Today's paper asset regime is light years away from anything ever seen in world history. The entire world is in competition to see who can devalue their currency to zero the fastest in order to improve their trade status and pay off debt more cheaply. Consequently, gold's reaction to it (along with other hard assets/commodities) will also be unlike anything ever seen before.
This 38 year experiment with unregulated fiat/credit has run into heavy turbulence with the otc derivatives being the defining event that pushed things over the edge. Unfortunately 80-90% of all otc derivatives are still with us. Our 5 too-big-to-fail banks hold $203 TRILLION themselves with 85% of those in interest rate swaps. Look no further than that to understand how rates have been kept artificially low for a decade and caused massive capital misallocations throughout the economy. The rest of the world was ok with the US exporting inflation for a few decades. Inflation was a minor pain to bear to be provided protection and a steady source of buyers for their exports. But our exportation of worthless derivatives has taken things to an exponentially higher level of pain that our trade partners are no longer willing to accept.
roadrunner
<< <i>ttown - what do you consider as "stupid money?" >>
It's hard to define isn't it the way were living beyond our means by printing money. If we were on the gold standard or promoting the stong dollar still $1100 would be stupid money to me. Right now protecting your wealth in dollars is stupid. At some point the US will be made to live within it's means by Asia with very little credit given to it's citizens. When the tide starts to turn and we get into trying to balance/managing our currency again then that would be near peak and stupid money. That could be $1500, $2500, $5000, or $10000 dollars an ounce when people quite buying our T-Bills and we have to do something about it it's time to sell and wait to repurchase them at a much lower price in the future. These cycles always have and end but it's too soon to see how long the world will support us. When it hits over $1500 I might sell some just to pay off all my debts but it won't be just to covert to the dollar just to see it fall year after year in purchasing power. Really I don't have a dup in my collection so I really don't care if I ever sell them it's insurance for me at this point in hard times but if I lost my job and couldn't get a good paying one then it would be time to sell rather I wanted to or not just to pay off all my debts and stay afloat. I'm sure "stupid money" is different for everyone depending on the reality of your world.
<< <i>My personal favorite for current market conditions is the not-so-generic Type I $20 Liberty. You can get a big 1 oz. hunk of gold, in a 150 or so year old coin in dirty XF-40 for about the price of a UHR. These have not been promoted for a while, so the prices have remained fairly stable while the value of the gold content has climbed. >>
I guess it doesn't matter much but this isn't quite an oz. It is .9675 or something like that--about $40 difference at today's prices. --Jerry
<< <i>. I don't like USG where the next higher grade is a tremendous price jump above the previous grade column unless I can get them way back of bid. >>
Hmmm. I think the more common attitude is that people like the grade just below the big jump. This gets a coin one point below a big dog for a lot less money. Given that popularity I don't think you're likely to get them way below bid unless you manage a Rip. --Jerry
<< <i>
<< <i>My personal favorite for current market conditions is the not-so-generic Type I $20 Liberty. You can get a big 1 oz. hunk of gold, in a 150 or so year old coin in dirty XF-40 for about the price of a UHR. These have not been promoted for a while, so the prices have remained fairly stable while the value of the gold content has climbed. >>
I guess it doesn't matter much but this isn't quite an oz. It is .9675 or something like that--about $40 difference at today's prices. --Jerry >>
Close enough for government work.
roadrunner
Velocity of money is reported to be quite low right now. If the economy does start to pick up, inflation could be a much more significant factor than it is right now, unless interest rates start to rise. Of course, that would put a crimp in any recovery. That is why people are betting on gold in anticipation of inflation before it actually heats up.
Do you think that unemployment and credit markets are bad now? They both will suffer with higher interest rates. There are no other ways out of this one than to loosen credit (again), print money (again) and to "hope" (no comment).
And then, there's taxes......................don't even get me started.
I knew it would happen.
if you got in on the rally back then, how much you
would be worth today. Of course you would be quite
quite old.
Camelot
$20 Saints MS 65
$20 Libs MS 63
$10 Indians MS 63
$10 Libs MS 62
$5 Indians MS 62
$2.50 Indians MS 62"
You're looking for these close to melt (if I'm understanding you correctly)? Please tell me that you were just making a funny.
10-4,
My Instagram picturesErik
My registry sets
Speculative gold should be in bullion coins.
Libs, Saints, etc. belong as a "onesie" in your collection.
The LIQUIDITY is in bullion coins. Generics can and will turn on a dime and their desirability (price) will "swap ends" every time the bullion hiccups.
Spreads are higher and telemarketers love em.
<< <i>"For buying I like the following, as I am looking for nice coins relatively close to melt or that offer good basal value in that grade:
$20 Saints MS 65
$20 Libs MS 63
$10 Indians MS 63
$10 Libs MS 62
$5 Indians MS 62
$2.50 Indians MS 62"
You're looking for these close to melt (if I'm understanding you correctly)? Please tell me that you were just making a funny. >>
I noticed that. I think he's dreaming if he thinks he can buy these coins anywhere near melt.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
speculation and bubbles to form in the commodity markets. it is not
just gold that this is taking place in.
when interest rates rise the money will not be as "easy" and these
bubbles will pop spectaculary.
<< <i>Gold Hits Record High
Gold Supply "Runs Out"
Dollar Continues Decline
Treasury confident Congress will increase debt limit
Trade deficit jumps most in a decade
Can you say "ALL OF THE ABOVE!"
https://www.smallcopperguy.com
Surely you jest!
Hmm. The ever decreasing value of the American Dollar.