What I don't understand is the responses from members that have no interest in these errors, other than to tell us how stupid we are for bothering with them. As if we plan on sending our kids to college with our fabulous ROI.
HSN has not been hawking these on the air. They showed them once, that I know of, back in NOV '09, getting close to a year ago, yet they continue to sell. The item remained on their website until it recently sold out. Sold Out without any TV sales pitching.
Honestly, I don't mind the differences of opinion. It's the assumption, by the poo-poo’ers, that the only reason we are discussing these is monetary, that I find distressing.
Where should we sell these again? Oh yeah, at the Worlds Fair. >>
They all come running when someone posts a new idea, or question or any post about these.
They all come running when someone posts a new idea, or question or any post about these. >>
Well... I'm not seeing how two or three contrary opinions can be considered "they all come running"....but, since we're unfairly generalizing... how about this one?
On the flipside, "they" all have to post a new thread (or bump the old dead one) every time there's anything that could even remotely be construed as validation in hopes the redbook editor will come a-calling to recognize them. And it's not about the money... but oh, by the way, these were now selling for $X and HSN sold out at $XX so that's very significant... oh, and ebay's not a good indicator of value or acceptance (unless they're bringing larger amounts, of course, in which case it's a great indicator of value and acceptance)...LMAO
<< <i>What I don't understand is the responses from members that have no interest in these errors, other than to tell us how stupid we are for bothering with them. As if we plan on sending our kids to college with our fabulous ROI.
HSN has not been hawking these on the air. They showed them once, that I know of, back in NOV '09, getting close to a year ago, yet they continue to sell. The item remained on their website until it recently sold out. Sold Out without any TV sales pitching.
Honestly, I don't mind the differences of opinion. It's the assumption, by the poo-poo’ers, that the only reason we are discussing these is monetary, that I find distressing.
Where should we sell these again? Oh yeah, at the Worlds Fair. >>
They all come running when someone posts a new idea, or question or any post about these. >>
I have no issue with people COLLECTING these. I post to these threads when I see them because I believe many of the people who start them seem have a financial interest in whether these are widely accepted by the hobby, and will then command large premiums.
I have almost 30 years of experience collecting varieties. I can tell you unequovically that if a variety becomes popular and valuable, it has nothing to do with it being promoted in Coin World, eBay 'L@@K' listings, or HSN. What I see going on with these coins, much like the extra trees, is extensive promotion. Where is the extensive promotion for the Duke Ellington DDR Quarter? This coin has managed to maintain a high premium mostly on it's own, IMHO. It's done this because 1- it's rare, and 2- it can be easily seen. The extra thumb varieties have proven to be the opposite of both. In the OPINION of this variety collector, the extra digit cents are duds. From their performance price-wise since their discovery, it looks like a lot of other variety collectors feel the same way.
My concern, which I've stated in other threads, is for what happens when someone does buy one of these, after falling for the hype and overpaying, especially if it's someone who is wanting to get into the hobby. When the time comes to sell, they will lose money, and may blame the hobby for this.
They are only worth what someone will pay for them, and while they may have been worth $89.95 on HSN, they are worth a tenth of that or less now, as illustrated by the auction records here. Serious collectors simply don't buy from TV sellers because they know better.
I didn't see this post the first time it was up, and would've posted to it the same way then. Starting a thread touting what these are selling for on HSN in an attempt to get these varieties taken seriously, is, to me, just more hype.
You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 9/2022 1888-O VAM-1B3 H8 Morgan | Senior Regional Representative- ANACS Coin Grading. Posted opinions on coins are my own, and are not an official ANACS opinion.
<< <i>These must be naysayers who do not own any! >>
I don't own any beachfront property a mile off the coast fo Florida either.
But I do own a plot of New Mexican Desert just outside of Taos! These were sold at the Seattle Worlds Fair for about $20 apiece. A big enough plot for perhaps a single wide mobile home but I'd have to supply my own water buffalo, sewage and electricity. Costs me $5.00 a year in property taxes but someday, someone will come along and purchase ALL the plots to build a WalMart Distribution Center and then its...........................Ca-Ching! >>
Have you ever been to Taos, N.M., I have and can think of no worse place in the world for an investment. There will never be a Wal Mart distribution center there I guarantee you, so find some sucker to pass you investment off to.
I do not need to make a dime on these coins as I already have my money I invested back.
I like them and find them fun in this boring year of coin collecting.
The boards are very boring.
I am sorry people are so against us even having a conversation about these coins.
Don't read the article's about them and I won't read article's about what you are interested in either and we will get along just fine.
If we make mistakes they will be our mistakes, not yours.
Get a job, get a life, get lost , but leave us alone.
People that are interested in these coins: Don't answer these knotheads, ignore them and we will continue talking about our coins.
If for any reason I may have gotten wrapped up into the "hypers" or whatever you would like to call them, I would like to sincerely make one thing clear:
I have NEVER touted these errors in the hopes of making a profit. I have never even in my touted them but only wanted to express my interest in these coins with fellow collectors on this board. I have a small collection of them because early on I knew how and where to find the key rolls and have enjoyed every second of cataloguing them. Any one of you could buy my 2009 FY DDR collection and all I would do is buy another coin either from one of you or another dealer. Please, there is no hyping for a get rich scheme in any of my posts.
All along, I have expresed my interest in these coins because I find the error to be dramatic, significant, unique, and limited. Part of what fuels my posts over this time has been personal curiousity as to why others find them boring. But maybe that is just it. We can't all like the same stuff. But it sure does seem like there is growing camp that likes to bash these. Now I guess that one of the remaining nay sayer arguments is that collectors of these coins are writing about them to hype and make profit. Well, sure greed is every where, certainly on HSN too, but not from me, and I can tell that it isn't from many of the posters on this board too.
The bottomline here is that there has been quite a bit of posts regarding the 2009 FY DDRs on this board. Actually, I think a ton and over a long period of time. As a whole, the motiviating factor I do not believe has been hype for profits. But genuine interest and the continual dialogue between those who are interested and those who are naysayers. Funny though, that even those of you who are not interested in them still post. They do have their charm!!!!
I wonder if HSN bought these to resell for $189.95 and $289.95 since HSN's MS65's went for $89.95 and they obviously have suck.. er...... I mean buyers?
That was uncalled for Lyds! >>
That WASN'T uncalled for, Lee. How many people buy the plated SHQ's from these bums, turn around and go to a dealer, then get more for the folder (or 'Cherrywood boxes') than the quarters themselves, which lose collector value the moment these 'Gem BU' coins touch the 'precious metals' that allegedly make them 'family heirlooms'? Sure, SOME of their shoes, clothing, Invicta watches, etc, MIGHT be a bargain, but those are about the only categories you can find a decent pricetag in. 99% of the stuff they sell is quality merchandise, it's just WAY overpriced.
I actually DID rip ShopNBC when they began selling the '08 Rev '07 ASE's when they were selling them at $99 (doesn't it seem like it was decades ago, already?). I bought 20 of them (all NGC MS69 'Early Release' labels), got them a week later, turned around and sold them for over $400-$450 each on the 'bay (by then the TV hucksters raised their prices to, I think it was over $700). In less than 3 weeks, I was able to make almost $6,000 profit, but there are VERY VERY few of those stories, especially in the coin category.
One would think that word would EVENTUALLY get out about their overpriced items (I can't be the only one that tells people NO, don't EVER buy coins over the TV). How many of you out here have staunchly said 'no' to people that see these coin shows on TV, even the gold layered Indian gold coin replicas, sold on CNBC, etc....then they ask someone, like us, that know at least enough about coins to make an educated decision about 'those Platinum layered SHQ's'?
I've already noticed fewer and fewer hours dedicated to 'coin shows' (HSN, ShopNBC...even The Coin Vault, when they went to satellite, began buying time on the ION network...started out at a 3 1/2 hour block on Sunday late-night, but no more Coin Vault on ION now). I hope the lack of these shows is due to the real truth coming out about the 'wares' these bloodsuckers sell.
In regard to the WDDR-002's on TT last night....even though I am not a fan of them, and I, personally, don't see them being much in the years to come, and don't hold hope for these being as 'big' as many of you do....maybe they WILL be worth at least what HSN charges now (no knocks to those of you do think they'll be 'future stars'....alot of modern coins started that way), I would've taken every one of them had I not forgotten about the 10pm 'last call'. The hammer's may have cost a few bucks more (I can't see being THAT much more), but I would have grabbed them all (well, at the VERY LEAST the MS68)......'just to cover my bases'. Though, I don't think we'll be seeing many of these back on TT, given the prices realized.
I wonder what posessed the consignor to just give them away? At a $5 sellers fee, TT has to cut a check for all of what, $23 for this lot (if my math serves me correctly)? NOONE can tell me these coins are worth making $23 on 5 sales....not even computing shipping to/from ANACS, grading fees (even if they were FREE gradings, with the shipping to TT, ANACS, insuring.....the seller took a loss, no two ways about it (and I thought I took a beating on my FDOI Prez dollars on TT....I did lose $$ overall...but I was NOT in the negative column)
Thank you Pitboss, Constantine, Not Sure, and others......
Thank you for typing my thoughts.
Now to Cmerlo1
<< <i>Starting a thread touting what these are selling for on HSN in an attempt to get these varieties taken seriously, is, to me, just more hype. >>
I am the original poster of this thread. My purpose was purely informational. I listed the link with the sales price; so?
Take the time to read all the posting before suggesting an ulterior motive.
Never once did I, nor did anyone else responding to this thread, ever say or suggest that we were on the road to riches.
So, whom am I trying to manipulate, persuade, or convince by posting information on coins being sold by HSN?
<< <i>My concern, which I've stated in other threads, is for what happens when someone does buy one of these, after falling for the hype and overpaying, especially if it's someone who is wanting to get into the hobby. When the time comes to sell, they will lose money, and may blame the hobby for this. >>
Perhaps your sole motivation for collecting coins is monetary gain.
I believe others buy coins because the find them interesting.
Perhaps we should check with the FTC to see how many people feel they're being ripped off by the unscrupulous opportunists at HSN.
Finally
<< <i>Serious collectors simply don't buy from TV sellers because they know better. >>
Serious collectors, such as yourself, should know better than to post to a thread for which the subject matter is of no interest to them, or not worth their time.
Funny; flip through the about 20 pages of subjects on here. Count how many have over 100 postings and tell me these are not worth discussing.
I think the resistance to the acceptance of these by, as someone said, "mainstream numismatists", is the coin size and detail.
If this were a quarter, half, or dollar; the extra finger would jump off the coin, and the poo-poo'ers would be leaping over each other for them.
It's because the penny is small, and design intricate, that makes it hard to see without a glass. Copper doesn't help either, it absorbs more light than it reflects.
<< <i>I think the resistance to the acceptance of these by, as someone said, "mainstream numismatists", is the coin size and detail.
If this were a quarter, half, or dollar; the extra finger would jump off the coin, and the poo-poo'ers would be leaping over each other for them.
It's because the penny is small, and design intricate, that makes it hard to see without a glass. Copper doesn't help either, it absorbs more light than it reflects. >>
You one funny fellow!
I wish what you said was actually true but unfortunately, it's not. Otherwise, so many other "true rarities" in the Lincoln series would sell for half if not one quarter of their selling price because they are so small.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>Otherwise, so many other "true rarities" in the Lincoln series would sell for half if not one quarter of their selling price because they are so small. >>
They would sell for less because they would be easier to see on a larger coin?
Maybe I read too many negative remarks, like;
"too hard to see", "can't see without a microscope", "too small to be important", "if you can't see it with the naked eye".....blah blah blah
Well, I've never implied to know-it-all. So, please explain the humor in what I said.
<< <i>What they are selling for on ebay will be a joke in a couple of years. There are not as many of these things as everyone thinks. The Lincoln penny has such a huge market that these will go up in price. What gets me on these coins on coin collector are only MS65's. What will happen when they decide to sell their 67's?
Who are the "Damn Fools"; the people buying on HSN or the people NOT buying cheap on Ebay now?
They need more of these to really make a splash on tv. This would get more attention to these coins.
I have a lot of them but am not going to give them away to anybody. If hsn wants them they will have to pay for them at my price. I have a lot of 50 WDDR 001's and 75 WDDR 002's on ebay now in case anybody decides they want some. These will be worth good money sometime and I am willing to wait.
Does anyone need help doing the math? 200 x $90 = $18,000 How long are these going to be poo-poo'd, regardless of who or where they're being sold?
I am not sure exactly what I have left. I still have about 40 prime date boxes that I have not even opened. The only errors I have kept track of so far is the WDDR 001 which I have in raw form stands at 250 and the WDDR 002 I have about 400. I have 25 MS 67 of the WDDR 001 and 24 MS 67 WDDR 002's. Some MS66's and 65's. I have hundreds of assorted errors put aside to be looked at when they are worth looking at. So I guess I am in pretty good shape if they become worth some money later on.
I think you'll be kicking yourself in a few years for not doing what you're criticizing them for........not buying them cheap on Ebay NOW.
I still say we here on the forum,even the naysayers have some, are going to benefit big time from these coins in the future. There are millions of lincoln cent collectors out there just wailing to hear about these coins. >>
I am a collector, above all, and I love coins. Especially varieties. Having said that, I want to be sure that when the time comes to sell my coins, I get a fair price that reflects their market value. So yes, I do have a financial interest in my collection as well.
After reading the entire thread (and, YES, I did read it before my post), containing the posts above, I don't see how anyone could come away from it not feeling that the coins are being touted for anything other than their potential for monetary gain. If I were an amateur collector reading posts like those, I'd be kicking myself for not buying all 200 of them at $89.95 last night.
I stand by my opinion: The hyping of these varieties (not the collecting of them) is detrimental to the coin hobby, because inexperienced new collectors are paying way too much for them, and will end up leaving the hobby with a bad taste in their mouth. These are the people paying $89.95 for these on TV, and when they eventually walk in to a coin shop to sell them, I predict they are going to have a very bad day.
To start a post here about how anything numismatic is performing on a TV coin show (in my opinion to say "See? People are paying good money for these. PCGS should recognize them and they should be in the red book.") is opening yourself up to criticism. Most of the people here consider these shows to be a blight on the hobby. Anything sold there is instantly cheapened in the eyes of many serious collectors, and lumped right in with colorozed American Eagles and gold-plated state quarters. I spend a lot of time at the local B&M, and not a day goes by that someone doesn't show up to sell something they bought from one of these TV shows, and leave disappointed when they find out just how much money they lost. No need to check with the FTC, just google "home shopping network coins" and read the great feedback they've gotten.
You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 9/2022 1888-O VAM-1B3 H8 Morgan | Senior Regional Representative- ANACS Coin Grading. Posted opinions on coins are my own, and are not an official ANACS opinion.
<< <i>Otherwise, so many other "true rarities" in the Lincoln series would sell for half if not one quarter of their selling price because they are so small. >>
They would sell for less because they would be easier to see on a larger coin?
Maybe I read too many negative remarks, like;
"too hard to see", "can't see without a microscope", "too small to be important", "if you can't see it with the naked eye".....blah blah blah
Well, I've never implied to know-it-all. So, please explain the humor in what I said. >>
Making the statement "I think the resistance to the acceptance of these by, as someone said, "mainstream numismatists", is the coin size and detail." is simply not true and to have read that statement coming from you made me giggle.
Coin Size and detail has nothing to do with rarity. These coins are simply not rare. Nice varieties but not Rare Varieties.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>I will agree to discussing but not slamming someone else's views or likes.
Next time it may be your turn and I can get very nasty if this continues.
We are all here for knowledge not criticism. We get enough of that in our daily life. >>
I would like to add, I have never promoted these to anyone. I collect odd ball low value and high $ varities. See the key word "collect". I enjoy reading others thoughts on these be it, new finds, sales were ever they maybe, and general discussion. I do not come here wanting to read all the what nay sayers have to say. But it is your right. One more thought why don't you nay sayers start your own thread?
<< <i>These coins are simply not rare. Nice varieties but not Rare Varieties. >>
Ok, so they have to rare to be collectible? Or they have to be rare to be accepted by the "mainstream"?
They have to be rare to be worth discussing?
Wisconsin Leaf Quarters are not rare. How many "Skeleton Fingers" are out there? Far less than Leaf Quarters, I think.
FOR THE LAST TIME.
I don't think I am, or anyone else, is going to get rich; never did.
I don't think discussing these is going to change any purist's mind about these. I don't think that HSN is a market indicator.
I like them, and I'd like to discuss them with others that like them.
So please, if you have no interest in these, stop posting to this thread. Stop reading something into this discussion that's simply not there. >>
Sorry Papi!
I lost control of myself when I thought you were "hyping these" when you said: "I'm not sure how many 001's and 002's I have, because I haven't opened any of my 200+ prime date boxes. No BS, I have over 200 sealed boxes."
and
"I think you'll be kicking yourself in a few years for not doing what you're criticizing them for........not buying them cheap on Ebay NOW."
and
"The point is, if you got in on these at a relatively small investment; you'll make some money."
and
"I've sold 5 cents worth of pennies for over $200. That's good enough money for me."
I thought there for an instant that you have a hoard of these and even 200+ unopened prime date boxes that you're keeping for some reason or other and simply need to be sure that you're not keeping them for the wrong reason.
In all this mis-reading I've done, I felt it was my duty to offer a little kick back and logic just to perhaps add a different view so that newbies understand that hoarding these may not be a good idea and investing money in a hoard, even though they are right there for the picking, may not be a real good idea. Picking them up for their collectibility is fine but it just didn't sound like your posts were promoting these as varieties as much as "investments".
Again, my apologies.
So, what cha' gonna do with them 200+ boxes? You got an eBay id? You gonna sell them to HSN? What?
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
I enjoy being able to buy these coins with my retirement income being what it is. It is all I can really afford to do at this point.
If I make a little money on them in the future, great. If not, oh well, but I do know what I am getting into and do not need somebody else telling me I need to wear a seat belt if I don't want to. It's my business. Yes I have several hundred of these, so what. I paid for them and will continue to do so in the future.
I was fortunate enough to get 13 08/07 reverse's from the mint and have been selling them off as I need to. I even got a first strike MS70 out of them.
Hype and hope is different. I don't doubt that any of us who have a handful of these coins hope that they may have increased value down the road. I do not think there is any shame or inappropriateness in hoping that a collectible that we put time, energy, and money finding, researching, and collecting in the ground floor will become established and more valuable in time to come.
Take the above statement and change the subject matter to any numismatic item. If I spend $1000 on a coin, I purchased it because it brought me joy, I thought it was a nicer example than others, I maybe feel I am getting a pretty good price, and I HOPE it may have increased value in years to come as the hobby and appreciation for coins grows. If I put that $1000 in the bank, I sure as heck hope it is worth more money in time. No shame in admitting any of that.
Take the Ike series, there are many interesting varieties in this series that people are discovering and working on getting them recognized by the TPGs, hobby guides, publications etc. Some may even laugh at them for blowing up giant pictures of Earth on the Ike reverse and pointing out different relief islands. Or peg legs, or all that stuff. Do I think that is hype? No not really actually. I understand that collectors get passionate about what they collect and they get involved in the micro world of a particular series. I think there is plenty of interest in the Ike series for collecting purposes. I also think that there is a parallel here, and what some on this board may be doing on posting about the 2009 FY DDRs is trying to help establish interest and understanding similarly to someone who is interested in Ikes and feels the same way. That is not hype, but hope. Hope for further interest, and we all know that can also translate to increased value. But once again, no shame for hoping.
OK... before I vacate this thread...so what makes one person's opinion more valid than that of someone with an opposing opinion? Because they or one of their buddies created the thread? My earlier comments were just that, my opinion as to HSN not being a valid indicator of value, acceptance or desirability of these items, and I said as much...without vitriol I might add, unlike the postings of others who instructed me (apparently) and anyone else with a dissenting opinion to "get a job, get a life, get lost", etc....or were making vague albeit rather lame threats like "Next time it may be your turn and I can get very nasty if this continues."...I found that one particularly interesting- not to mention a trifle hypocritical, since it came one sentence after an admonishment about "slamming someone else's views...".
It appears that "having a discussion" in the context of the followers of these particular coins evidently translates to "having an opinion in lockstep with ours". Any opinion to the contrary is dismissed with little buzzwords like "naysayer" or poo-pooer", etc. Well, lesson learned. I won't be posting further to "your" thread about "your" coins (which I own boxes of myself btw as stated previously).
Perhaps your next thread could be titled "2009 Formative DDR Mutual Admiration Society" or something similar; that way those of us (well, me anyway- I won't presume to speak for others) who actually thought that people could come to these threads to discuss something without it turning into childlike banter and threats can simply recognize it for what it is and ignore the whole freaking thing.
Things like this are why I seldom post here anymore.
I have not gone off the deep end yet and usually don't. I know you have a bunch of these coins and hopefully you will be able to do something with them in the future. I am just tired of all the complaining that has been done about them. I also know that you will follow threads on these coins for as long as they exist.
I did find a gentleman today that is selling me 10 of the WDDR006's for $85. This gives me 70 of these. I did not start out saving the 006's but did know I had some.
My opinions regarding these coins, are just that; my opinions. >>
Then please, welcome other opinions without applying poopooer or naysayer labels. There are folks that have witnessed this type of stuff before and we're simply sharing our opinions. Like it or not, they're just opinions.
<< <i>If I say, "you'll be kicking yourself later for not buying these on Ebay now", it's hope. And probably a response to one of the naysayers. >>
There's that naysayers label again but, in response to the first part of this statement, us "naysayers" (if you must) are simply stating our opinions that we've seen this before and once the interest dies, very little can be done to revive it so try not to get your hopes too high.
I specifically remember the hype about the 2008 Rev 07 SAE coin and cautioned folks to not invest a bunch of money into them. That earned me another "naysayer" title. It turned out, I was right. Prices did not continue to rise, even into the Christmas Season and even after these got listed in the Greysheet. Despite all the wrangling and wrestling with the facts about how these were super rare, it did little once the interest was lost and prices fell back. Those folks that invested $4,000 to $5,900 into the First Strike MS70 coins have lost their butts.
<< <i>I am, personally, getting a great deal of joy from these coins. And I simply try to play devils advocate to the poo-poo'ers. >>
Who in turn are devils advocating you.
<< <i>I laugh that some feel I have the power to alter peoples opinions about these. >>
You'd be surprised how many folks actually read the boards yet never post and some of those just might have gotten into those HSN sales. Anybody that paid $90 for one of these is sure to lose his/her butt and there are folks that simply want to bring that to everybodies attention.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>You'd be surprised how many folks actually read the boards yet never post and some of those just might have gotten into those HSN sales. Anybody that paid $90 for one of these is sure to lose his/her butt . >>
Oh, poor poor Poo-Poo-Lee......... Hmm.......sounds like a song.......... Lyrics anyone?
Amateur collectors; do what?............. What, they just happen to stumble on this site, read one post and run right to HSN?......... Ridiculous
<< <i> It turned out, I was right. >>
Boy, why doesn't that statement surprise me?......
<< <i>and there are folks that simply want to bring that to everybodies attention >>
... Pat yourself on the back...Polish up your badge..look into your crystal ball... and keep on the watch.
"Here he comes to save the day!!"
Thanks Lee.........Please keep perusing these posts to protect us from the evil posters....... like these
As Bugs would say....."What a Maroon".........
I apologize to the rest of you, but I just can't stand it any longer.
Comments
HSN has not been hawking these on the air. They showed them once, that I know of, back in NOV '09, getting close to a year ago, yet they continue to sell. The item remained on their website until it recently sold out. Sold Out without any TV sales pitching.
Honestly, I don't mind the differences of opinion. It's the assumption, by the poo-poo’ers, that the only reason we are discussing these is monetary, that I find distressing.
Where should we sell these again? Oh yeah, at the Worlds Fair. >>
Successful Trades: Swampboy,
Well... I'm not seeing how two or three contrary opinions can be considered "they all come running"....but, since we're unfairly generalizing... how about this one?
On the flipside, "they" all have to post a new thread (or bump the old dead one) every time there's anything that could even remotely be construed as validation in hopes the redbook editor will come a-calling to recognize them. And it's not about the money... but oh, by the way, these were now selling for $X and HSN sold out at $XX so that's very significant... oh, and ebay's not a good indicator of value or acceptance (unless they're bringing larger amounts, of course, in which case it's a great indicator of value and acceptance)...LMAO
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>What I don't understand is the responses from members that have no interest in these errors, other than to tell us how stupid we are for bothering with them. As if we plan on sending our kids to college with our fabulous ROI.
HSN has not been hawking these on the air. They showed them once, that I know of, back in NOV '09, getting close to a year ago, yet they continue to sell. The item remained on their website until it recently sold out. Sold Out without any TV sales pitching.
Honestly, I don't mind the differences of opinion. It's the assumption, by the poo-poo’ers, that the only reason we are discussing these is monetary, that I find distressing.
Where should we sell these again? Oh yeah, at the Worlds Fair. >>
I have no issue with people COLLECTING these. I post to these threads when I see them because I believe many of the people who start them seem have a financial interest in whether these are widely accepted by the hobby, and will then command large premiums.
I have almost 30 years of experience collecting varieties. I can tell you unequovically that if a variety becomes popular and valuable, it has nothing to do with it being promoted in Coin World, eBay 'L@@K' listings, or HSN. What I see going on with these coins, much like the extra trees, is extensive promotion. Where is the extensive promotion for the Duke Ellington DDR Quarter? This coin has managed to maintain a high premium mostly on it's own, IMHO. It's done this because 1- it's rare, and 2- it can be easily seen. The extra thumb varieties have proven to be the opposite of both. In the OPINION of this variety collector, the extra digit cents are duds. From their performance price-wise since their discovery, it looks like a lot of other variety collectors feel the same way.
My concern, which I've stated in other threads, is for what happens when someone does buy one of these, after falling for the hype and overpaying, especially if it's someone who is wanting to get into the hobby. When the time comes to sell, they will lose money, and may blame the hobby for this.
They are only worth what someone will pay for them, and while they may have been worth $89.95 on HSN, they are worth a tenth of that or less now, as illustrated by the auction records here. Serious collectors simply don't buy from TV sellers because they know better.
I didn't see this post the first time it was up, and would've posted to it the same way then. Starting a thread touting what these are selling for on HSN in an attempt to get these varieties taken seriously, is, to me, just more hype.
<< <i>
<< <i>These must be naysayers who do not own any! >>
I don't own any beachfront property a mile off the coast fo Florida either.
But I do own a plot of New Mexican Desert just outside of Taos! These were sold at the Seattle Worlds Fair for about $20 apiece. A big enough plot for perhaps a single wide mobile home but I'd have to supply my own water buffalo, sewage and electricity. Costs me $5.00 a year in property taxes but someday, someone will come along and purchase ALL the plots to build a WalMart Distribution Center and then its...........................Ca-Ching! >>
Have you ever been to Taos, N.M., I have and can think of no worse place in the world for an investment. There will never be a Wal Mart distribution center there I guarantee you, so find some sucker to pass you investment off to.
I do not need to make a dime on these coins as I already have my money I invested back.
I like them and find them fun in this boring year of coin collecting.
The boards are very boring.
I am sorry people are so against us even having a conversation about these coins.
Don't read the article's about them and I won't read article's about what you are interested in either and we will get along just fine.
If we make mistakes they will be our mistakes, not yours.
Get a job, get a life, get lost , but leave us alone.
People that are interested in these coins: Don't answer these knotheads, ignore them and we will continue talking about our coins.
Steve
I have NEVER touted these errors in the hopes of making a profit. I have never even in my touted them but only wanted to express my interest in these coins with fellow collectors on this board. I have a small collection of them because early on I knew how and where to find the key rolls and have enjoyed every second of cataloguing them. Any one of you could buy my 2009 FY DDR collection and all I would do is buy another coin either from one of you or another dealer. Please, there is no hyping for a get rich scheme in any of my posts.
All along, I have expresed my interest in these coins because I find the error to be dramatic, significant, unique, and limited. Part of what fuels my posts over this time has been personal curiousity as to why others find them boring. But maybe that is just it. We can't all like the same stuff. But it sure does seem like there is growing camp that likes to bash these. Now I guess that one of the remaining nay sayer arguments is that collectors of these coins are writing about them to hype and make profit. Well, sure greed is every where, certainly on HSN too, but not from me, and I can tell that it isn't from many of the posters on this board too.
The bottomline here is that there has been quite a bit of posts regarding the 2009 FY DDRs on this board. Actually, I think a ton and over a long period of time. As a whole, the motiviating factor I do not believe has been hype for profits. But genuine interest and the continual dialogue between those who are interested and those who are naysayers. Funny though, that even those of you who are not interested in them still post. They do have their charm!!!!
<< <i>MS67 WDDR-002 for $6 bid + $8 buyers fee + Sales Tax and Shipping.
MS67 WDDR-002 for $9 bid + $8 buyers fee + Sales Tax and Shipping
MS67 WDDR-002 for $6 bid + $8 buyers fee + Sales Tax and Shipping
MS67 WDDR-002 for $9 bid + $8 buyers fee + Sales Tax and Shipping
MS68 WDDR-002 for $18 bid + $8 buyers fee + Sales Tax and Shipping
I wonder if HSN bought these to resell for $189.95 and $289.95 since HSN's MS65's went for $89.95 and they obviously have suck.. er...... I mean buyers?
That was uncalled for Lyds!
That WASN'T uncalled for, Lee. How many people buy the plated SHQ's from these bums, turn around and go to a dealer, then get more for the folder (or 'Cherrywood boxes') than the quarters themselves, which lose collector value the moment these 'Gem BU' coins touch the 'precious metals' that allegedly make them 'family heirlooms'? Sure, SOME of their shoes, clothing, Invicta watches, etc, MIGHT be a bargain, but those are about the only categories you can find a decent pricetag in. 99% of the stuff they sell is quality merchandise, it's just WAY overpriced.
I actually DID rip ShopNBC when they began selling the '08 Rev '07 ASE's when they were selling them at $99 (doesn't it seem like it was decades ago, already?). I bought 20 of them (all NGC MS69 'Early Release' labels), got them a week later, turned around and sold them for over $400-$450 each on the 'bay (by then the TV hucksters raised their prices to, I think it was over $700). In less than 3 weeks, I was able to make almost $6,000 profit, but there are VERY VERY few of those stories, especially in the coin category.
One would think that word would EVENTUALLY get out about their overpriced items (I can't be the only one that tells people NO, don't EVER buy coins over the TV). How many of you out here have staunchly said 'no' to people that see these coin shows on TV, even the gold layered Indian gold coin replicas, sold on CNBC, etc....then they ask someone, like us, that know at least enough about coins to make an educated decision about 'those Platinum layered SHQ's'?
I've already noticed fewer and fewer hours dedicated to 'coin shows' (HSN, ShopNBC...even The Coin Vault, when they went to satellite, began buying time on the ION network...started out at a 3 1/2 hour block on Sunday late-night, but no more Coin Vault on ION now). I hope the lack of these shows is due to the real truth coming out about the 'wares' these bloodsuckers sell.
In regard to the WDDR-002's on TT last night....even though I am not a fan of them, and I, personally, don't see them being much in the years to come, and don't hold hope for these being as 'big' as many of you do....maybe they WILL be worth at least what HSN charges now (no knocks to those of you do think they'll be 'future stars'....alot of modern coins started that way), I would've taken every one of them had I not forgotten about the 10pm 'last call'. The hammer's may have cost a few bucks more (I can't see being THAT much more), but I would have grabbed them all (well, at the VERY LEAST the MS68)......'just to cover my bases'. Though, I don't think we'll be seeing many of these back on TT, given the prices realized.
I wonder what posessed the consignor to just give them away? At a $5 sellers fee, TT has to cut a check for all of what, $23 for this lot (if my math serves me correctly)? NOONE can tell me these coins are worth making $23 on 5 sales....not even computing shipping to/from ANACS, grading fees (even if they were FREE gradings, with the shipping to TT, ANACS, insuring.....the seller took a loss, no two ways about it (and I thought I took a beating on my FDOI Prez dollars on TT....I did lose $$ overall...but I was NOT in the negative column)
Thank you for typing my thoughts.
Now to Cmerlo1
<< <i>Starting a thread touting what these are selling for on HSN in an attempt to get these varieties taken seriously, is, to me, just more hype. >>
I am the original poster of this thread. My purpose was purely informational. I listed the link with the sales price; so?
Take the time to read all the posting before suggesting an ulterior motive.
Never once did I, nor did anyone else responding to this thread, ever say or suggest that we were on the road to riches.
So, whom am I trying to manipulate, persuade, or convince by posting information on coins being sold by HSN?
<< <i>My concern, which I've stated in other threads, is for what happens when someone does buy one of these, after falling for the hype and overpaying, especially if it's someone who is wanting to get into the hobby. When the time comes to sell, they will lose money, and may blame the hobby for this. >>
Perhaps your sole motivation for collecting coins is monetary gain.
I believe others buy coins because the find them interesting.
Perhaps we should check with the FTC to see how many people feel they're being ripped off by the unscrupulous opportunists at HSN.
Finally
<< <i>Serious collectors simply don't buy from TV sellers because they know better. >>
Serious collectors, such as yourself, should know better than to post to a thread for which the subject matter is of no interest to them, or not worth their time.
Funny; flip through the about 20 pages of subjects on here. Count how many have over 100 postings and tell me these are not worth discussing.
I will agree to discussing but not slamming someone else's views or likes.
Next time it may be your turn and I can get very nasty if this continues.
We are all here for knowledge not criticism. We get enough of that in our daily life.
<< <i>I will agree to discussing but not slamming someone else's views or likes.
Next time it may be your turn and I can get very nasty if this continues.
We are all here for knowledge not criticism. We get enough of that in our daily life. >>
I'm not sure if this was directed towards me.
What I meant when I included you, Constantine, and Not Sure, was.............
I think you misread what I wrote.
Cmerlo1 was the intended
If this were a quarter, half, or dollar; the extra finger would jump off the coin, and the poo-poo'ers would be leaping over each other for them.
It's because the penny is small, and design intricate, that makes it hard to see without a glass. Copper doesn't help either, it absorbs more light than it reflects.
<< <i>I think the resistance to the acceptance of these by, as someone said, "mainstream numismatists", is the coin size and detail.
If this were a quarter, half, or dollar; the extra finger would jump off the coin, and the poo-poo'ers would be leaping over each other for them.
It's because the penny is small, and design intricate, that makes it hard to see without a glass. Copper doesn't help either, it absorbs more light than it reflects. >>
You one funny fellow!
I wish what you said was actually true but unfortunately, it's not. Otherwise, so many other "true rarities" in the Lincoln series would sell for half if not one quarter of their selling price because they are so small.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Otherwise, so many other "true rarities" in the Lincoln series would sell for half if not one quarter of their selling price because they are so small. >>
They would sell for less because they would be easier to see on a larger coin?
Maybe I read too many negative remarks, like;
"too hard to see", "can't see without a microscope", "too small to be important", "if you can't see it with the naked eye".....blah blah blah
Well, I've never implied to know-it-all. So, please explain the humor in what I said.
<< <i>What they are selling for on ebay will be a joke in a couple of years. There are not as many of these things as everyone thinks. The Lincoln penny has such a huge market that these will go up in price. What gets me on these coins on coin collector are only MS65's. What will happen when they decide to sell their 67's?
Who are the "Damn Fools"; the people buying on HSN or the people NOT buying cheap on Ebay now?
They need more of these to really make a splash on tv. This would get more attention to these coins.
I have a lot of them but am not going to give them away to anybody. If hsn wants them they will have to pay for them at my price. I have a lot of 50 WDDR 001's and 75 WDDR 002's on ebay now in case anybody decides they want some. These will be worth good money sometime and I am willing to wait.
Does anyone need help doing the math?
200 x $90 = $18,000
How long are these going to be poo-poo'd, regardless of who or where they're being sold?
I am not sure exactly what I have left. I still have about 40 prime date boxes that I have not even opened. The only errors I have kept track of so far is the WDDR 001 which I have in raw form stands at 250 and the WDDR 002 I have about 400. I have 25 MS 67 of the WDDR 001 and 24 MS 67 WDDR 002's. Some MS66's and 65's. I have hundreds of assorted errors put aside to be looked at when they are worth looking at.
So I guess I am in pretty good shape if they become worth some money later on.
I think you'll be kicking yourself in a few years for not doing what you're criticizing them for........not buying them cheap on Ebay NOW.
I still say we here on the forum,even the naysayers have some, are going to benefit big time from these coins in the future. There are millions of lincoln cent collectors out there just wailing to hear about these coins. >>
I am a collector, above all, and I love coins. Especially varieties. Having said that, I want to be sure that when the time comes to sell my coins, I get a fair price that reflects their market value. So yes, I do have a financial interest in my collection as well.
After reading the entire thread (and, YES, I did read it before my post), containing the posts above, I don't see how anyone could come away from it not feeling that the coins are being touted for anything other than their potential for monetary gain. If I were an amateur collector reading posts like those, I'd be kicking myself for not buying all 200 of them at $89.95 last night.
I stand by my opinion: The hyping of these varieties (not the collecting of them) is detrimental to the coin hobby, because inexperienced new collectors are paying way too much for them, and will end up leaving the hobby with a bad taste in their mouth. These are the people paying $89.95 for these on TV, and when they eventually walk in to a coin shop to sell them, I predict they are going to have a very bad day.
To start a post here about how anything numismatic is performing on a TV coin show (in my opinion to say "See? People are paying good money for these. PCGS should recognize them and they should be in the red book.") is opening yourself up to criticism. Most of the people here consider these shows to be a blight on the hobby. Anything sold there is instantly cheapened in the eyes of many serious collectors, and lumped right in with colorozed American Eagles and gold-plated state quarters. I spend a lot of time at the local B&M, and not a day goes by that someone doesn't show up to sell something they bought from one of these TV shows, and leave disappointed when they find out just how much money they lost. No need to check with the FTC, just google "home shopping network coins" and read the great feedback they've gotten.
<< <i>
<< <i>Otherwise, so many other "true rarities" in the Lincoln series would sell for half if not one quarter of their selling price because they are so small. >>
They would sell for less because they would be easier to see on a larger coin?
Maybe I read too many negative remarks, like;
"too hard to see", "can't see without a microscope", "too small to be important", "if you can't see it with the naked eye".....blah blah blah
Well, I've never implied to know-it-all. So, please explain the humor in what I said.
Making the statement "I think the resistance to the acceptance of these by, as someone said, "mainstream numismatists", is the coin size and detail." is simply not true and to have read that statement coming from you made me giggle.
Coin Size and detail has nothing to do with rarity. These coins are simply not rare. Nice varieties but not Rare Varieties.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>These coins are simply not rare. Nice varieties but not Rare Varieties. >>
Ok, so they have to rare to be collectible? Or they have to be rare to be accepted by the "mainstream"?
They have to be rare to be worth discussing?
Wisconsin Leaf Quarters are not rare. How many "Skeleton Fingers" are out there? Far less than Leaf Quarters, I think.
FOR THE LAST TIME.
I don't think I am, or anyone else, is going to get rich; never did.
I don't think discussing these is going to change any purist's mind about these. I don't think that HSN is a market indicator.
I like them, and I'd like to discuss them with others that like them.
So please, if you have no interest in these, stop posting to this thread. Stop reading something into this discussion that's simply not there.
<< <i>I will agree to discussing but not slamming someone else's views or likes.
Next time it may be your turn and I can get very nasty if this continues.
We are all here for knowledge not criticism. We get enough of that in our daily life. >>
I would like to add, I have never promoted these to anyone. I collect odd ball low value and high $ varities. See the key word "collect". I enjoy reading others thoughts on these be it, new finds, sales were ever they maybe, and general discussion. I do not come here wanting to read all the what nay sayers have to say. But it is your right. One more thought why don't you nay sayers start your own thread?
Successful Trades: Swampboy,
Look at the source who posted it?
Successful Trades: Swampboy,
<< <i>
<< <i>These coins are simply not rare. Nice varieties but not Rare Varieties. >>
Ok, so they have to rare to be collectible? Or they have to be rare to be accepted by the "mainstream"?
They have to be rare to be worth discussing?
Wisconsin Leaf Quarters are not rare. How many "Skeleton Fingers" are out there? Far less than Leaf Quarters, I think.
FOR THE LAST TIME.
I don't think I am, or anyone else, is going to get rich; never did.
I don't think discussing these is going to change any purist's mind about these. I don't think that HSN is a market indicator.
I like them, and I'd like to discuss them with others that like them.
So please, if you have no interest in these, stop posting to this thread. Stop reading something into this discussion that's simply not there. >>
Sorry Papi!
I lost control of myself when I thought you were "hyping these" when you said: "I'm not sure how many 001's and 002's I have, because I haven't opened any of my 200+ prime date boxes. No BS, I have over 200 sealed boxes."
and
"I think you'll be kicking yourself in a few years for not doing what you're criticizing them for........not buying them cheap on Ebay NOW."
and
"The point is, if you got in on these at a relatively small investment; you'll make some money."
and
"I've sold 5 cents worth of pennies for over $200. That's good enough money for me."
I thought there for an instant that you have a hoard of these and even 200+ unopened prime date boxes that you're keeping for some reason or other and simply need to be sure that you're not keeping them for the wrong reason.
In all this mis-reading I've done, I felt it was my duty to offer a little kick back and logic just to perhaps add a different view so that newbies understand that hoarding these may not be a good idea and investing money in a hoard, even though they are right there for the picking, may not be a real good idea. Picking them up for their collectibility is fine but it just didn't sound like your posts were promoting these as varieties as much as "investments".
Again, my apologies.
So, what cha' gonna do with them 200+ boxes? You got an eBay id? You gonna sell them to HSN? What?
The name is LEE!
<< <i>So, what cha' gonna do with them 200+ boxes? You got an eBay id? You gonna sell them to HSN? What? >>
You know, the criticism and cynicism is unnecessary and tiring.
If I want to buy 1000 boxes, what's it to you?
If I respond to someone saying how many they have, by telling them how many I have; what's it to you?
Why do you feel you need to protect us fools from parting with our money; what's it to you?
Honestly, I don't know what you collect personally, and I don't care. If you like it, collect it; more power to you.
I think rainbow toning is ugly, and I think buying an LP1 set for $90 because it's wrapped in mint paper is stupid.
But I don't tell people not to do it.
I assume that all members of this forum are knowledgeable in the areas that interest them.
I guess I should be honored that you feel I have the ability to persuade others into seeing things as I do.
Maybe I should apply to HSN. Even better, run for political office.
I enjoy being able to buy these coins with my retirement income being what it is. It is all I can really afford to do at this point.
If I make a little money on them in the future, great. If not, oh well, but I do know what I am getting into and do not need somebody else telling me I need to wear a seat belt if I don't want to. It's my business. Yes I have several hundred of these, so what. I paid for them and will continue to do so in the future.
I was fortunate enough to get 13 08/07 reverse's from the mint and have been selling them off as I need to. I even got a first strike MS70 out of them.
Take the above statement and change the subject matter to any numismatic item. If I spend $1000 on a coin, I purchased it because it brought me joy, I thought it was a nicer example than others, I maybe feel I am getting a pretty good price, and I HOPE it may have increased value in years to come as the hobby and appreciation for coins grows. If I put that $1000 in the bank, I sure as heck hope it is worth more money in time. No shame in admitting any of that.
Take the Ike series, there are many interesting varieties in this series that people are discovering and working on getting them recognized by the TPGs, hobby guides, publications etc. Some may even laugh at them for blowing up giant pictures of Earth on the Ike reverse and pointing out different relief islands. Or peg legs, or all that stuff. Do I think that is hype? No not really actually. I understand that collectors get passionate about what they collect and they get involved in the micro world of a particular series. I think there is plenty of interest in the Ike series for collecting purposes. I also think that there is a parallel here, and what some on this board may be doing on posting about the 2009 FY DDRs is trying to help establish interest and understanding similarly to someone who is interested in Ikes and feels the same way. That is not hype, but hope. Hope for further interest, and we all know that can also translate to increased value. But once again, no shame for hoping.
Well put !!!
My opinions regarding these coins, are just that; my opinions.
If I say, "you'll be kicking yourself later for not buying these on Ebay now", it's hope. And probably a response to one of the naysayers.
I am, personally, getting a great deal of joy from these coins. And I simply try to play devils advocate to the poo-poo'ers.
I laugh that some feel I have the power to alter peoples opinions about these.
My earlier comments were just that, my opinion as to HSN not being a valid indicator of value, acceptance or desirability of these items, and I said as much...without vitriol I might add, unlike the postings of others who instructed me (apparently) and anyone else with a dissenting opinion to "get a job, get a life, get lost", etc....or were making vague albeit rather lame threats like "Next time it may be your turn and I can get very nasty if this continues."...I found that one particularly interesting- not to mention a trifle hypocritical, since it came one sentence after an admonishment about "slamming someone else's views...".
It appears that "having a discussion" in the context of the followers of these particular coins evidently translates to "having an opinion in lockstep with ours". Any opinion to the contrary is dismissed with little buzzwords like "naysayer" or poo-pooer", etc. Well, lesson learned. I won't be posting further to "your" thread about "your" coins (which I own boxes of myself btw as stated previously).
Perhaps your next thread could be titled "2009 Formative DDR Mutual Admiration Society" or something similar; that way those of us (well, me anyway- I won't presume to speak for others) who actually thought that people could come to these threads to discuss something without it turning into childlike banter and threats can simply recognize it for what it is and ignore the whole freaking thing.
Things like this are why I seldom post here anymore.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
I have not gone off the deep end yet and usually don't. I know you have a bunch of these coins and hopefully you will be able to do something with them in the future. I am just tired of all the complaining that has been done about them. I also know that you will follow threads on these coins for as long as they exist.
I did find a gentleman today that is selling me 10 of the WDDR006's for $85. This gives me 70 of these. I did not start out saving the 006's but did know I had some.
<< <i>Thank you Constantine, well put. Bravo!!
My opinions regarding these coins, are just that; my opinions. >>
Then please, welcome other opinions without applying poopooer or naysayer labels. There are folks that have witnessed this type of stuff before and we're simply sharing our opinions. Like it or not, they're just opinions.
<< <i>If I say, "you'll be kicking yourself later for not buying these on Ebay now", it's hope. And probably a response to one of the naysayers. >>
There's that naysayers label again but, in response to the first part of this statement, us "naysayers" (if you must) are simply stating our opinions that we've seen this before and once the interest dies, very little can be done to revive it so try not to get your hopes too high.
I specifically remember the hype about the 2008 Rev 07 SAE coin and cautioned folks to not invest a bunch of money into them. That earned me another "naysayer" title. It turned out, I was right. Prices did not continue to rise, even into the Christmas Season and even after these got listed in the Greysheet. Despite all the wrangling and wrestling with the facts about how these were super rare, it did little once the interest was lost and prices fell back. Those folks that invested $4,000 to $5,900 into the First Strike MS70 coins have lost their butts.
<< <i>I am, personally, getting a great deal of joy from these coins. And I simply try to play devils advocate to the poo-poo'ers. >>
Who in turn are devils advocating you.
<< <i>I laugh that some feel I have the power to alter peoples opinions about these. >>
You'd be surprised how many folks actually read the boards yet never post and some of those just might have gotten into those HSN sales. Anybody that paid $90 for one of these is sure to lose his/her butt and there are folks that simply want to bring that to everybodies attention.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>You'd be surprised how many folks actually read the boards yet never post and some of those just might have gotten into those HSN sales. Anybody that paid $90 for one of these is sure to lose his/her butt . >>
Oh, poor poor Poo-Poo-Lee......... Hmm.......sounds like a song.......... Lyrics anyone?
Amateur collectors; do what?............. What, they just happen to stumble on this site, read one post and run right to HSN?......... Ridiculous
<< <i> It turned out, I was right. >>
Boy, why doesn't that statement surprise me?......
<< <i>and there are folks that simply want to bring that to everybodies attention >>
... Pat yourself on the back...Polish up your badge..look into your crystal ball... and keep on the watch.
"Here he comes to save the day!!"
Thanks Lee.........Please keep perusing these posts to protect us from the evil posters....... like these
As Bugs would say....."What a
I apologize to the rest of you, but I just can't stand it any longer.
-D
-Aristotle
Dum loquimur fugerit invida aetas. Carpe diem quam minimum credula postero.
-Horace