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What are the pros and cons of having your bullion coins slabbed?
RYK
Posts: 35,799 ✭✭✭✭✭
For the sake of this discussion, I am considering SAEs, AGEs, APEs, First Spouses, and Gold Buffaloes to be bullion coins, in whatever iteration they occur (excluding the copper FS medals).
There is probably no blanket, one-size-fits-all answer, so feel free to wax eloquent on the issue.
Also, a related topic, what do you consider the pros and cons of using PCGS vs. NGC (? vs. anyone else)? Are there bullion coins that are worth slabbing at PCGS but not NGC? Or vice versa?
There is probably no blanket, one-size-fits-all answer, so feel free to wax eloquent on the issue.
Also, a related topic, what do you consider the pros and cons of using PCGS vs. NGC (? vs. anyone else)? Are there bullion coins that are worth slabbing at PCGS but not NGC? Or vice versa?
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it and probably buy two rounds unslabbed doubling your bullion amount.
Cons: You might not get a 70
Pro: if you do get a 70 you made money.
There they are, sitting on the mahogany table beside my overstuffed chair, near my expensive cigars, my cognac, my bowl of frothy frenzy foam. I love the look of the austere Original Mint Packaging.
it's not a counterfeit
I am talking about gold
not so much for the grade.
<< <i>perhaps some reassurance that
it's not a counterfeit
I am talking about gold
not so much for the grade. >>
one could simply buy directly from a mint reseller if you are really
worried instead of ebay for example. no slab needed at that point.
and if you do not trust an actual reseller of AGEs from the mint you
might as well not trust the mint either.
Storage of numerous slabs is a hassle.
Sending in your own bullion for grading - if a coin makes 70, so much the better.
This may sound odd, but the original intent of TPGs and of slabbing was to facilitate the marketing and sale of sight-unseen coins.
Slabbed bullion, since the grades don't deviate much - seem to be a practical application of the original idea, without the risks inherent in slabbed classic coins that sometimes cannot be truly appreciated (or not appreciated) sight unseen.
As you know, prices can vary with how a coin looks in hand, graded or not. With slabbed bullion it is not as big an issue. The value is pretty much "what you see (or buy sight unseen) is what you get."
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Con: The very nice mint packaging they use for proofs.
There they are, sitting on the mahogany table beside my overstuffed chair, near my expensive cigars, my cognac, my bowl of frothy frenzy foam. I love the look of the austere Original Mint Packaging. >>
You drink cognac?
and smoke ceegars?
hmmmmm
don't open the mint package when smoking ceegars..
Of course I love to buy them slabbed if at melt and will price the 70's higher LOL.
2008-W Gold Proof $50 Buffalo.....came back from PCGS PR70DCAM.
Cost: $1025
PCGS Guide: $3200
2006-W Statue of Liberty $100 Unc. Platinum...came back from PCGS MS70FS
Cost: $1395
PCGS Guide: $3500
Gold and Silver are more well known and easier to pawn than platinum.
bob
<< <i>
<< <i>perhaps some reassurance that
it's not a counterfeit
I am talking about gold
not so much for the grade. >>
one could simply buy directly from a mint reseller if you are really
worried instead of ebay for example. no slab needed at that point.
and if you do not trust an actual reseller of AGEs from the mint you
might as well not trust the mint either. >>
point well taken,
however I was thinking
there is some additional safety
if buying on ebay
if they are slabbed.
also, when selling, perhaps it's easier as well,
assuming that you pay little or nothing for the slabbed coin.
good question. I don't think many know the right answer to it.
I've been selling a large number of MS70FS bullion buffalos for 3 years now. I get a lot of action from buyers searching ebay for bullion, seeing my PCGS MS70FS coin and offering me raw bullion price for it. I explain to them the difference and some of them decide to step up. After they own one or two and watch the prices, I've had some decide to buy in qunatity. It seems that the MS70FS buffalo falls in a pretty sweet spot of relative bullion and numismatic value. When gold goes up, they tend to appreciate. When gold goes down, the numismatic appeal props up the price.
For example, in 2008 gold was around $1000 oz in Jan at release so the initial price on these coins was higher than in the past. During the year we saw some gold weakness and the sales slowed down but prices didn't change much.
I think this is part of the strong demand for MS70FS gold buffalos. Those who offer melt for them probably don't have to worry about owning many but if you end up with any that you ripped off a poor heir to a collector, please give me a call. I'm always a strong buyer.
--Jerry
<< <i>You drink cognac?
and smoke ceegars?
hmmmmm
don't open the mint package when smoking ceegars.. >>
and don't light the cognac by mistake.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Cons: It's stupid.
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
<< <i>one could simply buy directly from a mint reseller if you are really
worried instead of ebay for example. no slab needed at that point.
and if you do not trust an actual reseller of AGEs from the mint you
might as well not trust the mint either. >>
True that this would give you the "warm fuzzy" when you buy it.
But at some point, you may want to sell it.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
<< <i>Pros: It's stupid.
Cons: It's stupid. >>
I don't know. I could see a lot of people getting "Shanghaied" by fake raw gold bullion.
If you are an investor, there is no reason to slab.
If you are a gambler, there is the reason to slab (with good odds as long as there is a market with a premium for MS70 items).
Why are people looking for MS70 bullion, to flip to someone who is looking for MS70?
I think that the long range demand of MS70 bullion will diminish over time.
Con --- wasting your money... unless you score a 70 or two and are able to flip it to the next "bigger fool"...
Just my opinion... anyone cares to flame me for it... go right ahead... I'm way too cool to be bothered by some flame thrower...
The same thing might be said for any coin, Classic or Modern, or Bullion - slabbed or unslabbed.
I knew it would happen.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
1. The cost to value ratio is relatively low.
2. I find the slabs easier to store and organize than the mint capsules or, heaven forbid, those stupid presentation boxes.
3. There is the chance, but not likelihood, of getting a 70 which increases the value to some collectors such that, as fc suggests, you might even end up paying for all of the slabbing costs and/or getting bullion for free.
4. The slabbed coins, while probably not more valuable (unless in a 70 holder), appear to be more liquid on venues like the BST and ebay.
Of course, I am only going to send these to PCGS. My reasoning is that while the 70 at NGC is easier and more plentiful, the incremental value bump is often considerably smaller. Plus, I am a PCGS homer and like the slab design better.
I do not think that the silver coins warrant slabbing. I am going to get a Dansco for my SAE set one of these days.
Slabbing assures the customer it is not counterfeit, easier sell.
Slabbing ( from PCGS ) stops most fighting about what the grade is.
And the first strike label definitly sells for a higher price in a 70 Grade. so I always get FS on all my eligible Coins. as time goes on i think FS will command a premium on 69`s also. when first strike, first came out I thought it was a fad. But now I think it is here to stay!!
STORAGE, I can't stand all the nice presentation boxes and packaging the mint has for all these products. They are not all the same size and difficult to store.
My pro is for simplistic storage, I like being able to stack them with the rest of my collection in those blue PCGS boxes. I then toss the mint packaging and storage boxes.
Also as stated, if in a pinch to sell they are more liquid in the slab and there is the potential benefit of a 70 here and there to justify the costs.
However, I bought most of them in plastic so they'll stay that way.
Sure would like to have a chance at the '09s.
JT
I collect all 20th century series except gold including those series that ended there.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>It's stupid to pay the slabbing fees for bullion. All those slabbing fees add up and can be used to buy more bullion. >>
It's even more stupid to tell other people how to spend their own money.
<< <i>It's even more stupid to tell other people how to spend their own money.
Like telling someone they are crazy for giving their life savings to Bernie Madoff?
I like the idea, for purposes of type. There are many nice bullion designs world wide, the USA being obvious top tier material. I have more than once thought of doing a collection of different 1 oz golds PCGS TPG'd.
<< <i>
<< <i>It's even more stupid to tell other people how to spend their own money.
Like telling someone they are crazy for giving their life savings to Bernie Madoff?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>It's even more stupid to tell other people how to spend their own money.
Like telling someone they are crazy for giving their life savings to Bernie Madoff?
I do not see the parallel...unless you think that PCGS won't return my coins to me.
<< <i>I do not see the parallel...unless you think that PCGS won't return my coins to me.
There is none -- I'm just being a little silly. (I'm off today -- I can do that.)
Pro:You may get MS/PR70's.
(a little play on words for my 20,000th post)
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
The con is most of the bullion coins I've seen were well made, Mint State and high grade, which makes the slab an unnecessary expense.
While you should collect and slab what you enjoy, I would be concerned about the quantity that exists, surviving population in high grade and the lost opportunity to buy other coins that have greater numismatic value that are truly tough to acquire
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Cons: Odds are against a 70 why waste the money
CoinSpace.com Founder
www.coinspace.com
<< <i>Pros: Possible 70
Cons: Odds are against a 70 why waste the money >>
These 2 PR70DCAM's sure pay for a lot of submissions!!!.
***Two of my best bullion slabbings, RYK.............
2008-W Gold Proof $50 Buffalo.....came back from PCGS PR70DCAM.
Cost: $1025
PCGS Guide: $3200
2006-W Statue of Liberty $100 Unc. Platinum...came back from PCGS MS70FS
Cost: $1395
PCGS Guide: $3500***
<< <i>RYK-
While you should collect and slab what you enjoy, I would be concerned about the quantity that exists, surviving population in high grade and the lost opportunity to buy other coins that have greater numismatic value that are truly tough to acquire >>
Best answer in the thread, imo, and I will add...ditto.
Cons - When you go to enjoy your coin, it is encased in a hard plastic covering.
The reason bullion coins sell at consistent bullion prices is because the coins themselves are uniformly coined and found in about the same uniform condition of grade. Secondly, anyone who collects coins recognizes this truism and slabbing at the bullion level is about...hmmm, not sure what is about to tell you the truth. Maybe people just need an excuse to visit the post office to mail off to PCGS or NGC and/or they want to give their credit card some activity?