<< <i>Exactly, and IF it was that bad it wouldn't be sold so casually. >>
That was what I was thinking. You could send your 8 year old kid to the hardware store, and they'd sell it to him. Not to mention the fact it's one of the main ingredients in fingernail polish remover, and although I don't have personal experience in this area, I do believe it would be unusual to wear gloves while using it.
Well, yet another opinion to throw out there, but at least based on professional and real world experience:
I use mild dish detergent and place it on obv. and rev., massage it in and then rinse thoroughly, tamp dry with clean white cotton towel Inspect, if needing more, tamp surfaces of coin with acetone-soaked white cotton towel, soak in it if more required, tamp it dry Inspect, EZest or equivalent dip for two-three seconds, immediately repeat step one with detergent, etc. Can repeat this step with post care for longer 5 or occ. even 10 secs
Bonus rounds:
May try presoaked (in the solvent to be used) Q-tips to tamp and NOT rub or grind on coin surfaces. This would include CoinSolv, MS70,etc. Follow this with the detergent & water...
The soap and water have generally removed any residual visually obvious either at that time or evidence of it later on (~10years of coins in TPGs, etc.)
PS - Baijerfan, just wondering how it is you feel that acetone does not do an adequate job of removing skin oils/compounds; I believe the fact that it has "dried" the skin has already shown that it does in fact perform that operation and that it is these very same skin oils that are most likely to have left deposits on the coin surfaces.
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
<< <i>And wear nitrile gloves if you're using acetone or any other solvent---that stuff is not only highly flammable but carcinogenic to boot! >>
I always use nitrile gloves with any chemicals. You can get them at Walmart in the pharmacy section, or home depot in the paint section. They are usually purple or blue colored.
<< <i>...And wear nitrile gloves if you're using acetone or any other solvent---that stuff is not only highly flammable but carcinogenic to boot! >>
Bullchit. Can you cite one case of anyone getting cancer from acetone exposure? >>
I thought that sounded suspicious, so I did a quick search and found this on the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency website:
"Acetone has a long history of industrial use as a solvent. To date there are no epidemiological studies demonstrating an association between exposure to acetone and increased risk of cancer." >>
>>
Exactly, and IF it was that bad it wouldn't be sold so casually. >>
Guess I stand corrected.
Sorry, but I recently read a list of commonly used solvents in the automotive painting field and their inherent dangers and toxicity levels---and I thought that acetone was up there in the middle of the list somewhere... Danged if I can find that list right now in my Favorites tab but I'll keep searching if for no other reason than to reread exactly what was said.
I'm really not one who likes inaccuracy in any case so I sincerely apologize for my apparent misinformation. But I still will be careful with acetone, regardless of what the EPA says or doesn't say.
"Gem EOR toners are tangible evidence that the Eighth Dimension does indeed exist." ---Ambrose Bierce, while attending a Heritage Auction at the 1907 Long Beach show
The method Keets posted is excellent... Although I prefer to dry with a hair dryer on low setting.... I rinse with alcohol, then two baths of DI water, then blow dry... Never had an issue. Cheers, RickO
I've never dipped a coin and after reading this thread I never will
To each is own........MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Well, yet another opinion to throw out there, but at least based on professional and real world experience:
I use mild dish detergent and place it on obv. and rev., massage it in and then rinse thoroughly, tamp dry with clean white cotton towel Inspect, if needing more, tamp surfaces of coin with acetone-soaked white cotton towel, soak in it if more required, tamp it dry Inspect, EZest or equivalent dip for two-three seconds, immediately repeat step one with detergent, etc. Can repeat this step with post care for longer 5 or occ. even 10 secs
Bonus rounds:
May try presoaked (in the solvent to be used) Q-tips to tamp and NOT rub or grind on coin surfaces. This would include CoinSolv, MS70,etc. Follow this with the detergent & water...
The soap and water have generally removed any residual visually obvious either at that time or evidence of it later on (~10years of coins in TPGs, etc.)
PS - Baijerfan, just wondering how it is you feel that acetone does not do an adequate job of removing skin oils/compounds; I believe the fact that it has "dried" the skin has already shown that it does in fact perform that operation and that it is these very same skin oils that are most likely to have left deposits on the coin surfaces. >>
Never said that acetone doesn't remove skin oils, tho I think its superficial at best. 5 minutes after contact you skin looks pretty much normal. I have been a hands on chemist for the better part of 40 years and in that time I have handled tens of thousands of gallons of the stuff. I have probably spilled more on my hands and fingers than the 10 most prolific dippers here could ever dream of. To make the broad statement that it is a good general solvent for fats and oils is in my experience not very true. If it should ever get below the skin's surface, it is more likely that the acetone will dissolve in the fat than the other way around.
I respectfully counter with a number of points regarding dipping. First, dipping does not rate is cleaning per se. Certainly anything acidic will strip something from the surface of a coin, but it is very much a matter of degree, and if the right coin is dipped correctly, very little of the surface will be stripped/damaged. I believe that a fairly small percentage of older U.S. silver coinage has NOT been treated at some point, and that a majority of coins in TPG holders have been dipped somewhere along the line. It's just a reality of numismatics. The very best coins have NOT been dipped, but they fortuitously were stored in a manner that preserved them well. Many, many coins were just not preserved as well, and acquired types of oxidization/haze that absolutely can stand to be removed. I just don't go along with the ultra high-minded notion that all dipping is a crime against numismatics, and humanity. We've all seen coins that have suffered from REPEATED dipping, but a modest dipping done rarely does not hurt a coin, while presenting an opportunity to improve its appearance and bring out the luster that lurks beneath the gunk. No. 1: Be prepared. Have your stations--dip, water, baking soda--set up in advance so you don't fumble or rush. Run the process through your mind before performing it, and prepare yourself to do things quickly but orderly. The dipping solution: Don't use full strength. I prefer EZest; dilute 50% with water. Dip the coin quickly in and out (flash dip), a quick swish and then immediately move under running water--faucet going strong. Turn the coin quickly as you rinse; don't rinse the obverse for 10 seconds and then the reverse, as the reverse will be holding on to that acid. Turn the coin back and forth, and blast the doggone acid off of there. Baking soda: I'm for it. I have dipped coins and rinsed coins very thoroughy in running water, only to find that the coins take on a rather ugly brownish sort of coloring here and there a month or two later--sometimes in the holder, after the coin has come back from grading. This coloring tends to occur around the lettering and lowest relief points of the coin. Conversely, when I swish the coins briefly in a blend of water and baking soda and let the soak 2-3 minutes more, the coins do NOT take on that browning coloring. It absolutely seems to neutralize the acid. Two other points: (1) Do not use a paper towel for blotting; use toilet tissue and lightly press into the coin. Paper towels are simply too abrasive and not as absorbent as tissue. Toilet tissue is a wood product to be sure, but it is much less coarse. (2) Rinse in COLD water, not warm water. I like the coin to be cool and cold beforehand; it makes the surfaces expand less and you don't want the surfaces to absorb the acid in the dip. Cold water is better at working the dip (acid) off the coin. I just don't like the idea of introducing heat into the equation at any point. Last steps: I believe that a bit of acetone, or alcohol, used in the last step ensures a good final result. Actually, I like one last trip under the faucet as the last step--there are many acetones advertised as 100%, when it just isn't so. I like water as the last step. Dipping is a topic people tend to get very exercised about. I personally believe it is like treating a headache in that, while an aspirin or two can be good, certainly you don't want to swallow the whole bottle. And certainly you don't take aspirin for a migraine, if you get my drift. I believe if you're cautious and choose your spots, judicious dipping can be a good thing. Guy
I experimented with dip on different types of inexpensive coins to see what effect the dip had. I tried an uncirculated steel cent that had large rust spots - the dip ate the surface right off, foamed up and turned the coin an ugly dark color. Oh well, at least the rust doesnt show as much! Lol - do not use dip on steel cents or on copper coins - seems to remove the luster and give bright fake appearance.
BF, yes that is what I was getting at - that the goal was to remove the surface skin oils on coins. In fact I commonly do it on coins that have been in either plastic or [suspicious for] PVC containing holders. Actually I don't try to get in pissing matches but will simply say that I have a substantial background in chemistry as well as an additional 30 years of practical experience (hint, three college degrees & a couple having something to do with an old tree).
Unrelated, many coins treated as per the abridged version above have been encapsulated by PCGS & 'cross the street. V-E-R-Y careful with bronze or copper naturally and no EZest/equivalents on them.
BTW, buried ancient bronze is a completely different story
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
I don't dip coins, but if I did the first thing would be an acetone dip in acetone that I know was distilled. Air dry and then dip using gloves or plastic forceps. Immediate rinse in 2-3 clean portions of distilled water. Thorough rinse in tap water, then a final rinse or 2 in distilled water. Rinse in fresh 91% IPA if needed. I'd imagine different procedures might be needed for different metals.
I would add too that depending on the type of glove, acetone can dissolve off substances from the glove and carry it back into the bulk acetone itself. If you can get one, I would recommend using a wash bottle like these.
Comments
<< <i>Exactly, and IF it was that bad it wouldn't be sold so casually. >>
That was what I was thinking. You could send your 8 year old kid to the hardware store, and they'd sell it to him. Not to mention the fact it's one of the main ingredients in fingernail polish remover, and although I don't have personal experience in this area, I do believe it would be unusual to wear gloves while using it.
I use mild dish detergent and place it on obv. and rev., massage it in and then rinse thoroughly, tamp dry with clean white cotton towel
Inspect, if needing more, tamp surfaces of coin with acetone-soaked white cotton towel, soak in it if more required, tamp it dry
Inspect, EZest or equivalent dip for two-three seconds, immediately repeat step one with detergent, etc. Can repeat this step with post care for longer 5 or occ. even 10 secs
Bonus rounds:
May try presoaked (in the solvent to be used) Q-tips to tamp and NOT rub or grind on coin surfaces. This would include CoinSolv, MS70,etc.
Follow this with the detergent & water...
The soap and water have generally removed any residual visually obvious either at that time or evidence of it later on (~10years of coins in TPGs, etc.)
PS - Baijerfan, just wondering how it is you feel that acetone does not do an adequate job of removing skin oils/compounds; I believe the fact that it has "dried" the skin has already shown that it does in fact perform that operation and that it is these very same skin oils that are most likely to have left deposits on the coin surfaces.
Well, just Love coins, period.
<< <i>And wear nitrile gloves if you're using acetone or any other solvent---that stuff is not only highly flammable but carcinogenic to boot! >>
I always use nitrile gloves with any chemicals. You can get them at Walmart in the pharmacy section, or home depot in the paint section. They are usually purple or blue colored.
Krueger
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>...And wear nitrile gloves if you're using acetone or any other solvent---that stuff is not only highly flammable but carcinogenic to boot! >>
Bullchit. Can you cite one case of anyone getting cancer from acetone exposure? >>
I thought that sounded suspicious, so I did a quick search and found this on the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency website:
"Acetone has a long history of industrial use as a solvent. To date there are no epidemiological studies demonstrating an association between exposure to acetone and increased risk of cancer." >>
>>
Exactly, and IF it was that bad it wouldn't be sold so casually. >>
Guess I stand corrected.
Sorry, but I recently read a list of commonly used solvents in the automotive painting field and their inherent dangers and toxicity levels---and I thought that acetone was up there in the middle of the list somewhere... Danged if I can find that list right now in my Favorites tab but I'll keep searching if for no other reason than to reread exactly what was said.
I'm really not one who likes inaccuracy in any case so I sincerely apologize for my apparent misinformation. But I still will be careful with acetone, regardless of what the EPA says or doesn't say.
---Ambrose Bierce, while attending a Heritage Auction at the 1907 Long Beach show
To each is own........MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Well, yet another opinion to throw out there, but at least based on professional and real world experience:
I use mild dish detergent and place it on obv. and rev., massage it in and then rinse thoroughly, tamp dry with clean white cotton towel
Inspect, if needing more, tamp surfaces of coin with acetone-soaked white cotton towel, soak in it if more required, tamp it dry
Inspect, EZest or equivalent dip for two-three seconds, immediately repeat step one with detergent, etc. Can repeat this step with post care for longer 5 or occ. even 10 secs
Bonus rounds:
May try presoaked (in the solvent to be used) Q-tips to tamp and NOT rub or grind on coin surfaces. This would include CoinSolv, MS70,etc.
Follow this with the detergent & water...
The soap and water have generally removed any residual visually obvious either at that time or evidence of it later on (~10years of coins in TPGs, etc.)
PS - Baijerfan, just wondering how it is you feel that acetone does not do an adequate job of removing skin oils/compounds; I believe the fact that it has "dried" the skin has already shown that it does in fact perform that operation and that it is these very same skin oils that are most likely to have left deposits on the coin surfaces. >>
Never said that acetone doesn't remove skin oils, tho I think its superficial at best. 5 minutes after contact you skin looks pretty much normal.
I have been a hands on chemist for the better part of 40 years and in that time I have handled tens of thousands of gallons of the stuff. I have probably spilled more on my hands and fingers than the 10 most prolific dippers here could ever dream of. To make the broad statement that it is a good general solvent for fats and oils is in my experience not very true. If it should ever get below the skin's surface, it is more likely that the acetone will dissolve in the fat than the other way around.
First, dipping does not rate is cleaning per se. Certainly anything acidic will strip something from the surface of a coin, but it is very much a matter of degree, and if the right coin is dipped correctly, very little of the surface will be stripped/damaged. I believe that a fairly small percentage of older U.S. silver coinage has NOT been treated at some point, and that a majority of coins in TPG holders have been dipped somewhere along the line. It's just a reality of numismatics. The very best coins have NOT been dipped, but they fortuitously were stored in a manner that preserved them well. Many, many coins were just not preserved as well, and acquired types of oxidization/haze that absolutely can stand to be removed. I just don't go along with the ultra high-minded notion that all dipping is a crime against numismatics, and humanity. We've all seen coins that have suffered from REPEATED dipping, but a modest dipping done rarely does not hurt a coin, while presenting an opportunity to improve its appearance and bring out the luster that lurks beneath the gunk.
No. 1: Be prepared. Have your stations--dip, water, baking soda--set up in advance so you don't fumble or rush. Run the process through your mind before performing it, and prepare yourself to do things quickly but orderly.
The dipping solution: Don't use full strength. I prefer EZest; dilute 50% with water. Dip the coin quickly in and out (flash dip), a quick swish and then immediately move under running water--faucet going strong. Turn the coin quickly as you rinse; don't rinse the obverse for 10 seconds and then the reverse, as the reverse will be holding on to that acid. Turn the coin back and forth, and blast the doggone acid off of there.
Baking soda: I'm for it. I have dipped coins and rinsed coins very thoroughy in running water, only to find that the coins take on a rather ugly brownish sort of coloring here and there a month or two later--sometimes in the holder, after the coin has come back from grading. This coloring tends to occur around the lettering and lowest relief points of the coin. Conversely, when I swish the coins briefly in a blend of water and baking soda and let the soak 2-3 minutes more, the coins do NOT take on that browning coloring. It absolutely seems to neutralize the acid.
Two other points: (1) Do not use a paper towel for blotting; use toilet tissue and lightly press into the coin. Paper towels are simply too abrasive and not as absorbent as tissue. Toilet tissue is a wood product to be sure, but it is much less coarse. (2) Rinse in COLD water, not warm water. I like the coin to be cool and cold beforehand; it makes the surfaces expand less and you don't want the surfaces to absorb the acid in the dip. Cold water is better at working the dip (acid) off the coin. I just don't like the idea of introducing heat into the equation at any point.
Last steps: I believe that a bit of acetone, or alcohol, used in the last step ensures a good final result. Actually, I like one last trip under the faucet as the last step--there are many acetones advertised as 100%, when it just isn't so. I like water as the last step.
Dipping is a topic people tend to get very exercised about. I personally believe it is like treating a headache in that, while an aspirin or two can be good, certainly you don't want to swallow the whole bottle. And certainly you don't take aspirin for a migraine, if you get my drift. I believe if you're cautious and choose your spots, judicious dipping can be a good thing.
Guy
<< <i> But I still will be careful with acetone, regardless of what the EPA says or doesn't say. >>
A good practice indeed.
Unrelated, many coins treated as per the abridged version above have been encapsulated by PCGS & 'cross the street. V-E-R-Y careful with bronze or copper naturally and no EZest/equivalents on them.
BTW, buried ancient bronze is a completely different story
Well, just Love coins, period.
Equally important IS neutralizing the dip, to get it to STOP eating away at the coin!
Far too many coins have been ruined by improper dipping.
Never dip a coin unless it's beneficial to do so -
usually because someone has already done so the wrong way.
The dip will continue eating away at a coin and it will stink the rotten eggs
or tone in a very unattractive manner till it eventually turns Black.
NEVER dip an "Original skinned" coin! It's Blasphemous.
JMHO - FWIW!