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When a quick, light dip is beneficial - what is the best way to neutralize the acid in the dip?
Boom
Posts: 10,165 ✭
I don't endorse dipping however there ARE times when a light dip DOES benefit some coins.
I am asking & posting this for the benefit of the many collectors that do not know that IF
you DO choose to dip you need to rinse THOROUGHLY and or neutralize the acid or risk the
coin turning unsightly dark colors and stink like rotten eggs.
For the benefit of all here, please share and describe what you personally feel to be the BEST
way to "dip" correctly, including method of neutralizing said acid.
Thanks!
I am asking & posting this for the benefit of the many collectors that do not know that IF
you DO choose to dip you need to rinse THOROUGHLY and or neutralize the acid or risk the
coin turning unsightly dark colors and stink like rotten eggs.
For the benefit of all here, please share and describe what you personally feel to be the BEST
way to "dip" correctly, including method of neutralizing said acid.
Thanks!
0
Comments
If however, you know the right way for other metals - feel free to share.
Thanx again!
I tried acetone then warm water (maybe some light soap), then distilled water. That should take care of any acidity (especially the warm water and light soap which is a base.)
I did as a kid once clean some Wheaties with Ketchup which made them very shiny.
<< <i>Thanks for the invite via PM Boom but in all my years I've NEVER dipped a coin so I can not aid this thread.
I did as a kid once clean some Wheaties with Ketchup which made them very shiny. >>
Oh yes I did ketchup (vinegar) which some grimy Indian cents and it totally got rid of all the dirt but made the coin lusterless and just a boring dull color.
But like I said I only did this experimentally. Try it with a lesser expensive coin first.
<< <i>Thanks for the invite via PM Boom but in all my years I've NEVER dipped a coin so I can not aid this thread. >>
What he said.
to loosen up the crud and then a quick dip in acetone ending with a final final water rinse
.
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I lean toward 91% isopropyl alcohol since it dries easily and there isn't much
problem with spotting. Acetone is usually a second choice unless I'm trying to
clean it as well and then it's a first choice.
I usually rinse dipped coins in running water before stabilizing them.
that I felt could & wouldn't mind contributing to this thread, posted for educational purposes.
It's been pretty boring here lately and it struck me that it may be a good idea to actually share
experiences for the benefit of the many novice and Yes, even old-tyme collectors that actually may
have tried and ruined coins because they simply never were taught the right way.
As stated, I am very much "Old School" and much like Broadstruck I was taught not to mess
with coin surfaces. Once we do we forever remove the Original skin and the Life History
of the given coin and a potentially destructive, irreversible process is started.
I thought we might use this forum for the very purpose for which it was created...
to share experiences and Knowledge as collectors, particularly with those in mind who otherwise
are clueless and inadvertantly ruin coins forever.
Thanx.
do not fit together unless highly diluted, IMHO. What is important is the composition and type of problem one is faced with. A silver piece with a blemish should be treated differently then a copper piece. Depending on the problem.
The piece pictured below, copper, devices were filled with what appeared to be a sticky felt fuzz. Still a long way to go with conserving this piece but miles from what she looked like at purchace. Plastic toothpick to remove the chuncks. Short bath in 10 to 1 dish detergent, and still a long ways to go yet.
Interesting thread. I look forward to responces.
- Marcus Tullius Cicero, 106-43 BC
that has accumulated within letters on very old coins!
This is an age old technique however impatience leads to possibly damaging/ scratching a coin with the thorn.
This is a tedious process and effective - to a degree. Many times there is still leftover crud in which case methods
using acetone, and as DUIGuy has mentioned, that work really well.
That copper looks super BTW!
Never used acetone before and would only consider it if I had some older proof sets w/ really hazy coins. Other than that, I'd rather just leave a coin as is.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
I will attempt to answer your question as best as I can.
I started collecting coins when I was around 11-12 years old and my dad and I dipped a few Morgans that he gave me around that time.
We always rinsed them in running water and blotted them dry after a brief dip.
We were not aware back in those days of the actual minute but irreversible damage caused by dipping in thiourea but we always preferred BU over "tarnished" silver coins anyway. At least we rinsed well and washed our hands, too.
Since those early days of dipping a few coins I have occasionally dipped other silver coins in my collection whenever I felt there would be a benefit in eye appeal. But I've also employed the technique of selectively dipping a coin with a Q-tip dipped in a DILUTE solution of water and dip and then ROLLED over the part of the coin's surface (instead of dunking the whole coin).
I would always rinse well, blot dry with a clean towel and store the coin in a Saflip thereafter. No problems thereafter whatsoever. I suppose the best way to neutralize thiourea would also include a dip in a solution of water and baking soda before the final rinse in running water---but like I say, I've never had a problem with my water-only rinses before.
Although I now generally prefer toned coins over white coins I agree with your premise that there are times when a brief dip are beneficial to a coin (at least as far as eye appeal, removing haze or unattractive toning goes).
---Ambrose Bierce, while attending a Heritage Auction at the 1907 Long Beach show
<< <i>I have never dipped a coin but do have one nice morgan with some PVC I would like to get off of it someday. Any info how to do this right when the time comes is appreciated. >>
Acetone, and do it sooner than later before it is too late.
First, I feel that I must give some advice. Please do not dip expensive or irreplaceable pieces - this is best left to the pro's, i.e., NCS.
To start, buy a jar of EZest (Jewel Luster). Also buy a pair of the blue plastic tongs to hold the piece securely. You will also need distilled water, paper napkins, and a quart of ammonia.
My process is as follows - wear safety glasses and ventilate properly:
Grab the coin by the edge with tongs and lock them:
Rinse coin under almost hot running water - this puts a bit of heat in the coin.
Dip in EZEst - about 2 seconds. (You can always dip again)
Immediately rinse in the almost hot running water - 5 seconds per side
Rinse in a cup of distilled water - 5 seconds
Rinse in a second cup of distilled water - 5 seconds
Dip in ammonia for at least 10 seconds - this neutralizes the EZEst - ammonia is highly basic and will passivate the silver surface. (Longer does not hurt here)
Dip in a third cup of distilled water
Dip in a fourth cup of distilled water
Blot water off between paper napkins. Do this several times to remove all water. DO NOT RUB. Blot only. I usually use three or so layers of napkins.
Repeat if necessary.
One thing you might want to try first: If the coin exhibits alot of haze or grunge, I usually try MS70 first instead of dipping. Many coins respond fine to this treatment and you don't risk running the coin thru a dipping that does strip metal. The process is similar, but you will need some Q tips and acetone.
Process is:
Grab coin with tongs - wear safety glasses and ventilate properly (acetone is highly flammable)
Use Qtip to GENTLY swab the surfaces with a solution of 3 parts water to one part MS70. This will remove most haze and grunge. If you press hard, you will get hairlines.
Rinse liberally under warm water
Dip in acetone - this removes all remnants of MS70.
Rinse in a cup of distilled water
Rinse in a second cup of distilled water
Blot as above.
I would recommend practicing on a few sacrificial pieces to get the technique down. Dip one for a longer period and you can see how the mirrors get dull.
A dip gone bad:
I'd advise to wear rubber gloves or use a plastic tweezers/forceps. Get the coin immediately into some distilled water in a cup. Rinse under warm tap water and then again with some distilled water. Finally a rubbing alcohol rinse and air/pat dry with a soft cloth.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
FWIW has anyone ever tried washing his/her eyes with water for 15 minutes? I have never seen ANY evidence that 15 minutes is better than 1. Also it is a rare individual who could stand ice cold tap water on/in his eyes for that amount of time.
I have used quite a bit of acetone over the past couple yrs. Just to protect against anything nefarious that might develop from improper storage. The acetone evaporates so quickly, I haven't felt the need to rinse with anything but acetone.
I then put the coin in some paper towels and pat dry.
Never had any problems so far.
<< <i>The acid/s used in dips are quite water soluble and there really is no need to neutralize with baking soda. Anyone who has ever dipped their pinkies into soda solution or a caustic like lye, knows that it has that slimy feel that seems like it takes forever to wash off. My normal lab practice after I clean up equipment with caustic solutions is to chase with a little dilute acid to ensure that all of the caustic is gone. >>
I didn't realize that a little baking soda disolved in water was caustic. Also, I've seen plenty of dipped and rinsed coins that later turned in their slab so I'm not sure that rinsing is enough unless you rinse it for a very long time.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Dip it.
Now, try your rinse process on it.
Many of you, I suspect, will find your rinse process is wanting.
Bright new bronze medals will react almost immediately if you do not rinse correctly.
Can you dip one and have it look shiny one month later?
The neutralization process is important and plain old water will not do it.
If you are gonna hafta dip, do this experiment and see for yourself just how difficult it is to keep a bronze medal non-reactive after a dip.
After this experiment, think about all of that silver and gold that has been dipped but not rinsed properly. Scary. Colored splotches on a coin will have a new meaning to you.
Dipping destroys coins. I reserve its use for cheap, tarnished ASEs and spotted bronze spouse medals.
This post is meant as discouragement. Love your coins as they are. Don't destroy them! But if you do destroy your coins...remember that my coins will get that much rarer and more valuable. Hahahahaha!
<< <i>
<< <i>The acid/s used in dips are quite water soluble and there really is no need to neutralize with baking soda. Anyone who has ever dipped their pinkies into soda solution or a caustic like lye, knows that it has that slimy feel that seems like it takes forever to wash off. My normal lab practice after I clean up equipment with caustic solutions is to chase with a little dilute acid to ensure that all of the caustic is gone. >>
I didn't realize that a little baking soda disolved in water was caustic. Also, I've seen plenty of dipped and rinsed coins that later turned in their slab so I'm not sure that rinsing is enough unless you rinse it for a very long time. >>
Alkaline in nature would be a better descriptor than caustic. I'll still maintain that with adequate rinsing no other neutralization is necessary.
No residue and no chances to add hairlines.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
Many of my coins have been dipped by others, but my coins are all in TPG holders.
99% of coins do not need to be dipped, but every once in awhile a coin comes along that needs a face lift.
Should anyone else care to offer any more personal insight, by all means do feel free.
Once again, it's my personal opinion that generally speaking, most coins should NOT be "dipped"
however there are times, for an array of reasons, when a quick dip can prove to be beneficial if
done correctly but REMEMBER - dipping is a somewhat "destructive" process that is irreversible.
I think it fair to say that thus far we've concluded that one of, if not THE most important step in
conducting the "proper" dip IS to THOROUGHLY RINSE THE COIN and to do so using distilled water
to prevent spotting.
The next or equally important step is the actual drying process. Pat excess water off the coin and
use a hand held hair dryer to make sure ALL WATER is removed from the coin's surfaces.
If going full strength, dip the coin quickly and BE SURE to rinse thoroughly otherwise very unpleasant
results will occur. The use of 90+% alcohol is an option and many who advocate this process drive home
the importance to use the highest % of alcohol as opposed to the lower %, which has an oily base and
can cause yet more needless issues.
I hope this helps those who wanted to know because, afterall - no one wants to inadvertantly ruin their
coins forever by not following very basic, simple steps.
Practice on low valued coins before even thinking of dipping coins potentially worth a Premium.
Good luck and be careful.
Use a clean cotton towel, normally washed (no fabric softener sheets or such in the dryer!)
Only dip AU or Unc silver or gold coins that really need it.
while you're waiting for the E-Z-Est to arrive dip the Morgan in acetone which may remove the haze and preclude anything further. if that fails, follow this tried and true formula:
i use glass bowls from K-Mart(big enough to hold about eight ounces of liquid), acetone, distilled water, 91% alcohol, E-Z-Est, Canned air for cleaning electronics and cloth diapers. the list of ingredients may seem obsessive, but the key is to remove contaminants and to not risk re-toning or re-contaminating the coins you dip.
Bowl 1. 50% Distilled water and 50% E-Z-Est. Hold the coin by the edges and swirl it for no more than five seconds.
Bowl 2. 91% alcohol to rinse/nuetralize the dip. At least one full minute, shifting you fingers so nothing remains in the reeding.
Bowl 3. Distilled water rinse for one full minute, shifting you fingers so nothing remains in the reeding.
Bowl 4. Distilled water rinse for one full minute, shifting you fingers so nothing remains in the reeding.
Bowl 5. Acetone rinse for one full minute, shifting you fingers so nothing remains in the reeding.
Bowl 6. Acetone rinse for one full minute, shifting you fingers so nothing remains in the reeding.
after Bowl 6 hold the coin about 2-4 inches away from the canned air and blow it dry. it's important not to agitate the can which will result in droplets being sprayed which will harm the coin. also, try to avoid breathing on it. after you're satisfied that it's dry place the coin on a sterile diaper, flip the diaper over so it's covered and place it where it won't be disturbed. i go back and turn the coins over every day for about a week, checking to be sure no tone has started from an improper rinse/dip. after that it's safe to place in a Safety Flip, folder or send for grading.
remember to dispose of the used chemicals in a safe way, not down the sink drain.
Keets' is also a good recipe, except using your fingers is a bad idea. Human fingers are full of oil.
Use plastic coin tongs designed for the purpose. (And certain tongs can not be used with acetone, while some can. Test your tongs w/o coin first to see if they are acetone compatible.)
And canned air beats blotting everytime.
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
<< <i>believe me, after a few seconds in acetone there is no oil on your fingers. >>
Very true. In fact acetone is such an effective solvent for fats and oils that it actually dissolves your subcutaneous fat... not a healthy thing to do if you do it frequently. At any rate that acetone is now contaminated with skin oil that can deposit on your coins, so keep your finger defatting bowl separate from your coin rinse bowl!
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
Russ, NCNE
---Ambrose Bierce, while attending a Heritage Auction at the 1907 Long Beach show
<< <i>As noted by a couple of others, isopropyl alcohol, (91% or 99%), is the best substance to use for neutralizing the dip. Baking soda is a bad idea.
Russ, NCNE >>
Rubbing alcohol IS NOT a neutralizing agent, but sodium bicarb is. 91% IPA is merely a diluent/washing solvent and there is little reason to believe that it is any better than pure water for that purpose. If you add a drop of sulfuric acid solution to bicarb in water you get sodium sulfate thus you have "neutralized" the SA. If you add a similar drop of SA to the 91 proz IPA you now have a solution of SA in 91% IPA.
<< <i>
<< <i>believe me, after a few seconds in acetone there is no oil on your fingers. >>
Very true. In fact acetone is such an effective solvent for fats and oils that it actually dissolves your subcutaneous fat... not a healthy thing to do if you do it frequently. At any rate that acetone is now contaminated with skin oil that can deposit on your coins, so keep your finger defatting bowl separate from your coin rinse bowl! >>
Not true at all. In my experience of 40 plus years as a hands on chemist, acetone is a poor choice of solvent for fats or oils. It will leave your fingers white after exposure, but that doesn't last long. It is not a threat to wipe out your subcutaneous fats either. Chloroform or perc or carbon tet or other halogenated hydrocarbon solvents are WAY more effective degreasers than acetone ever will be.
<< <i>...And wear nitrile gloves if you're using acetone or any other solvent---that stuff is not only highly flammable but carcinogenic to boot! >>
Bullchit. Can you cite one case of anyone getting cancer from acetone exposure?
<< <i>
<< <i>...And wear nitrile gloves if you're using acetone or any other solvent---that stuff is not only highly flammable but carcinogenic to boot! >>
Bullchit. Can you cite one case of anyone getting cancer from acetone exposure? >>
I thought that sounded suspicious, so I did a quick search and found this on the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency website:
"Acetone has a long history of industrial use as a solvent. To date there are no epidemiological studies demonstrating an association between exposure to acetone and increased risk of cancer." >>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>...And wear nitrile gloves if you're using acetone or any other solvent---that stuff is not only highly flammable but carcinogenic to boot! >>
Bullchit. Can you cite one case of anyone getting cancer from acetone exposure? >>
I thought that sounded suspicious, so I did a quick search and found this on the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency website:
"Acetone has a long history of industrial use as a solvent. To date there are no epidemiological studies demonstrating an association between exposure to acetone and increased risk of cancer." >>
>>
Exactly, and IF it was that bad it wouldn't be sold so casually.