How real of a problem is counterfeit silver bullion?

SilverEagles92

On another forum, a poster said that he preferred to buy Silver American Eagles because, more than likely, they are authentic. This is what was said:

"One reason to buy SAE or GAE is simple. Counterfeiting SAE or GAE is Federal Prison time. Counterfeiting bars or rounds is at most a minor fraud charge, that would be extremely hard to prove before counterfeiter jumped bail.
So belief that an SAE is 1 ounce of silver is easier.

I have some very nice counterfeit bars. Outer 2 mm .999 silver over 25% silver core. Most quick assays only go deep enough to verify that it is not plated or layered. I keep them as a reminder that need to always buy direct as possible.

If you offered me a SAE in trade I would accept that it is probably real. You offer me a silver round I would pass unless had time to thoughly test it."

He mentions that he owns some counterfeit bars - is fake/filled/plated silver a problem, or is it so uncommon that we need not worry about it?

mkman123

uncommon, don't worry about it. He could be more paranoid on this than the rest of us.

PerryHall

I'd be more worried about buying a genuine silver bar that's been hollowed out and filled with lead.

SilverEagles92

<< <i>I'd be more worried about buying a genuine silver bar that's been hollowed out and filled with lead. >>

I mention filled bars in the post, if only briefly. Are those a common problem? (By common, I mean if you bought say 1,000 bars what are the chances one would be lead-filled?)

gecko109

<< <i>

<< <i>I'd be more worried about buying a genuine silver bar that's been hollowed out and filled with lead. >>

I mention filled bars in the post, if only briefly. Are those a common problem? (By common, I mean if you bought say 1,000 bars what are the chances one would be lead-filled?) >>




I wouldnt worry about that until silver hits $30. Then all bets are off!

PerryHall

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>I'd be more worried about buying a genuine silver bar that's been hollowed out and filled with lead. >>

I mention filled bars in the post, if only briefly. Are those a common problem? (By common, I mean if you bought say 1,000 bars what are the chances one would be lead-filled?) >>




I wouldnt worry about that until silver hits $30. Then all bets are off! >>



The one's that I read about were 100 oz bars. There was a pic of one sawed in half and you could see where someone drill three holes in the end of the bar and filled the holes with a lead alloy. This was probably from the Hunt Bros era where silver eventually hit $50 per oz. I don't think this is a big problem now but could be in the future.

SaorAlba

Yes, the older cast style bars were a lot easier to modify by hollowing them out and filling them with lead. Put it on a scale though and it is not going to weigh 100 ozs because lead is denser than silver so the bars would be overweight. I remember back when I was a kid during the 1980 price run up seeing a bar that someone brought into a coin shop that they had cut into because of suspicion of it being lead filled, turned out it wasn't and the guy was stuck with scrap metal.

PerryHall

<< <i>Yes, the older cast style bars were a lot easier to modify by hollowing them out and filling them with lead. Put it on a scale though and it is not going to weigh 100 ozs because lead is denser than silver so the bars would be overweight. I remember back when I was a kid during the 1980 price run up seeing a bar that someone brought into a coin shop that they had cut into because of suspicion of it being lead filled, turned out it wasn't and the guy was stuck with scrap metal. >>



People who do this alteration would usually be smart enough to use a lead alloy of the proper specific gravity (density) since it's too easy to weigh these bars to detect the deception.

Weiss

seems like you could use lead shot mixed with a resin of some type. Saw off the end of the bar, use a drill press and drill out 1" holes length-wise. Weigh the sawed off end, weigh the remaining bar. Fill with the appropriate amount of lead+resin, solder and polish the end back in place.

What could you remove? 40 ounces? 50? At $15 an ounce, that's worth an hour of your time, isn't it?

Just saying

Weiss

PerryHall

Balance a bar on a pencil and tap if with a small hammer. If you heat a melodious ring, it's probably an unadulterated bar. If you hear a dull thud, it's either an adulterated bar or an unadulterated bar with some air bubbles trapped inside when it was originally poured.