<< <i>The thing is...TPG are so inconsistent that in many ways grading has become pointless as a means of knowing the true grade of a coin. Constant inconsistency, constantly changing standards and perceived preferential treatment to big customers makes grading just a game and a gamble with luck playing more a part of it than what your coin actually is.
The best in the business PCGS and NGC ought to be able to get it right 99% of the time and truthfully, if they are training everyone the same and working hard on quality control, a person should get the same grade every time he submits a coin. If they built the rules and they train their graders, a coin should tell the same story to everyone that looks at it.
Now PCGS is really being hard on coins for reasons I do not understand. You can expect virtually any coin sent in now to score one notch lower than normal and one notch lower than it actually is.
FEC >>
Very well said
"Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
<< <i>How does one "prove" that an MS66 is not really an MS66?
In the case above, resubmit the coin at least several more times. If most times it comes back a grade lower than 66 then it's not a 66. For best results, try this 10 times. The majority opinon wins. If you don't have the $200-$300 to waste in 10 grading fees and postage to try this experiment, then you'll just have to rely on the last grading event. When it finally comes time to sell the coin, the market will tell you what the grade is. If no one is willing to pay you near 66 money for the coin, it's probably not a 66. Step down a grade and repeat. Continue until the coin sells.
roadrunner >>
I guess you are assuming that the market knows how to grade the coin, which if it did then there is no need for the TPGs in the first place. Also how do you know at which point even half of the potential buyers have seen the coin? I haven't looked at 1903-S Morgans on Heritage in months so if that is your venue, you are missing me and no doubt some others too.
<< <i>The thing is...TPG are so inconsistent that in many ways grading has become pointless as a means of knowing the true grade of a coin. Constant inconsistency, constantly changing standards and perceived preferential treatment to big customers makes grading just a game and a gamble with luck playing more a part of it than what your coin actually is.
The best in the business PCGS and NGC ought to be able to get it right 99% of the time and truthfully, if they are training everyone the same and working hard on quality control, a person should get the same grade every time he submits a coin. If they built the rules and they train their graders, a coin should tell the same story to everyone that looks at it.
Now PCGS is really being hard on coins for reasons I do not understand. You can expect virtually any coin sent in now to score one notch lower than normal and one notch lower than it actually is.
FEC >>
I guess they really like seeing that green thing on their slabs.
<< <i>The thing is...TPG are so inconsistent that in many ways grading has become pointless as a means of knowing the true grade of a coin. Constant inconsistency, constantly changing standards and perceived preferential treatment to big customers makes grading just a game and a gamble with luck playing more a part of it than what your coin actually is.
The best in the business PCGS and NGC ought to be able to get it right 99% of the time and truthfully, if they are training everyone the same and working hard on quality control, a person should get the same grade every time he submits a coin. If they built the rules and they train their graders, a coin should tell the same story to everyone that looks at it.
Now PCGS is really being hard on coins for reasons I do not understand. You can expect virtually any coin sent in now to score one notch lower than normal and one notch lower than it actually is.
FEC >>
Just how good and consistent would you be if you had to grade 2500 Morgans every day, each one being somewhat different and smoe sharpie deliberately trying to set you up so you grade in his favor?
<< <i>How does one "prove" that an MS66 is not really an MS66?
In the case above, resubmit the coin at least several more times. If most times it comes back a grade lower than 66 then it's not a 66. For best results, try this 10 times. The majority opinon wins. If you don't have the $200-$300 to waste in 10 grading fees and postage to try this experiment, then you'll just have to rely on the last grading event. When it finally comes time to sell the coin, the market will tell you what the grade is. If no one is willing to pay you near 66 money for the coin, it's probably not a 66. Step down a grade and repeat. Continue until the coin sells.
roadrunner >>
I guess you are assuming that the market knows how to grade the coin, which if it did then there is no need for the TPGs in the first place. Also how do you know at which point even half of the potential buyers have seen the coin? I haven't looked at 1903-S Morgans on Heritage in months so if that is your venue, you are missing me and no doubt some others too. >>
First off, the market is non-existent for 1956 to 1964 Washington quarters except for what the TPG's list in their price guides and obvious MS67's. If there were a market, then "perceived" MS66 Washington quarters would sell for MS66 money.
However, nobody will pay (not may) MS66 money for a non-TPG slabbed Washington Quarter. Why should they since there are plenty of TPG graded Washingtons to choose from? Therefore, the TPG's not only "report on the market" but they more or less "control" the market just by the fact that they are slabbing coins and stating that the coin is a specific "guaranteed" grade and it should sell for between x and y dollars.
Secondly, roadrunners response does not address my question which was "How does one "prove" that an MS66 is not really an MS66?"
The answer is simple.
NOBODY can "Prove" an MS66 is not an MS66 but most of the folks could "Agree" that its not an MS66. Grading is a "mutual agreement" on grade between at least two people. It may not always be the "same" two people the "agree" on the grade which accounts for some of the wild swings seen lately.
PCGS has a published grading standard for MS/PR66:
"MS/PR-66 = Few minor marks/hairlines not in focal areas, good strike "
The above words leave a lot open for technical "interpretation" and ultimately "agreement on grade".
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
I am sick of hearing people complain about cracking their coins out and getting a downgrade. For some reason no one writes to thank PCGS when their coin upgrades, or to offer us part of the profit they just made.
PCGS offers a safe alternative to the crackout game. It's our "Regrade Service" under which you can send your coin in for grade review, and possible upgrade. Under the Regrade Service, PCGS guarantees that your coin will not be downgraded. A risk free alternative that I highly recommend for all collectors. So what's the problem?
If someone thinks they are a good enough grader to play the crackout game then they shouldn't complain when it doesn't go their way.
Edited to add: When a coin is sent in under the Regrade Service it is cracked out and given to the graders raw. They do not know the difference between a "Regrade" submission and a "Raw" submission. Just in case you were wondering.
Just wondering, in a regrade situation if the grader thinks that 66 is really a 65 or 64, does PCGS automatically insist on a buy back??? or will they stick it back in a 66 holder and move along???
<< <i>I am sick of hearing people complain about cracking their coins out and getting a downgrade. For some reason no one writes to thank PCGS when their coin upgrades, or to offer us part of the profit they just made.
PCGS offers a safe alternative to the crackout game. It's our "Regrade Service" under which you can send your coin in for grade review, and possible upgrade. Under the Regrade Service, PCGS guarantees that your coin will not be downgraded. A risk free alternative that I highly recommend for all collectors. So what's the problem?
If someone thinks they are a good enough grader to play the crackout game then they shouldn't complain when it doesn't go their way.
Edited to add: When a coin is sent in under the Regrade Service it is cracked out and given to the graders raw. They do not know the difference between a "Regrade" submission and a "Raw" submission. Just in case you were wondering. >>
Don, I fully understand and accept that there could always be a 'one grade' difference when re-submitting a coin.
I respectfully submit that it's not the 'one' grade difference that bothers me, but rather the 'two' grade difference. (or more)
When I appraised diamonds, I preferred to grade the diamond's color with two grades, such as G-H. Thereby allowing me in future to still grade it correctly as G-H or if I was a little off, I'd grade it either an 'F-G' or an 'H-I', thereby still grading it with a 'G' or 'H' color. I would still be consistent and I usually was, over my 20 span of appraising.
You have to admit, when there's a two grade difference (ie, an ms66 being graded as an ms64) then someone was definitely wrong, either the first time or the last time.
This is the frustrating part, especially when we're dealing with the number 1 company in the world for grading coins.
"Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
and the coin is a 1946 I know just send it back and we will fix it $$ there and back with Ins I'll just keep it nice to look at. I was saying the date when it was graded not the date of the coin.
and the coin is a 1946 I know just send it back and we will fix it $$ there and back with Ins I'll just keep it nice to look at. I was saying the date when it was graded not the date of the coin. >>
Yassuh, I know. Dintcha ketch my winky?
I'm thinkin they don't want sellers trying to make up stories about a coin being more or less strickly graded based upon being graded during a particular day or time. I'm sure that some would do this to try and one-up some new or inexperienced collector.
Well, it appears this person was counting on the inconsistency of PCGS to reward the 66 purchase with a 67 slab, so why should the reverse be any different?
this is the part of the "game" that gets little attention. guys just love to brag about how smart they are, how much of a hot-shot grader they are and how they "clean-up" at the crack out game. they need to learn how to take their lumps with grace instead of this typical whine-moan-bitch-complain when things don't go according to plan. it's just a bit pathetic.
<< <i>Well, it appears this person was counting on the inconsistency of PCGS to reward the 66 purchase with a 67 slab, so why should the reverse be any different?
this is the part of the "game" that gets little attention. guys just love to brag about how smart they are, how much of a hot-shot grader they are and how they "clean-up" at the crack out game. they need to learn how to take their lumps with grace instead of this typical whine-moan-bitch-complain when things don't go according to plan. it's just a bit pathetic. >>
........Smotimes you feel like a nut ..smotimes you don't...
<< <i>I am sick of hearing people complain about cracking their coins out and getting a downgrade. For some reason no one writes to thank PCGS when their coin upgrades, or to offer us part of the profit they just made.
PCGS offers a safe alternative to the crackout game. It's our "Regrade Service" under which you can send your coin in for grade review, and possible upgrade. Under the Regrade Service, PCGS guarantees that your coin will not be downgraded. A risk free alternative that I highly recommend for all collectors. So what's the problem?
If someone thinks they are a good enough grader to play the crackout game then they shouldn't complain when it doesn't go their way.
Edited to add: When a coin is sent in under the Regrade Service it is cracked out and given to the graders raw. They do not know the difference between a "Regrade" submission and a "Raw" submission. Just in case you were wondering. >>
Thanks for the clarification Don and the piece of information regarding re-grades. I never knew this.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>Well, it appears this person was counting on the inconsistency of PCGS to reward the 66 purchase with a 67 slab, so why should the reverse be any different?
this is the part of the "game" that gets little attention. guys just love to brag about how smart they are, how much of a hot-shot grader they are and how they "clean-up" at the crack out game. they need to learn how to take their lumps with grace instead of this typical whine-moan-bitch-complain when things don't go according to plan. it's just a bit pathetic. >>
That's a good way to put it. People who want to play the crackout game must walk the walk and accept the consequences when things don't go their way.
Aspiring crackout players should take the opportunity to watch and learn from more famous crackout guys. The vast majority of those guys seldomly complain nor become angry when their coins don't grade the way they expected them to.
In the opening post it doesn't sound like the submitter ever took the time to thank PCGS for upgrading his MS66 quarters to MS67's yet he found the opportunity to sulk in anger when the results went the other way.
Follow me on Twitter @wtcgroup Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
<<I am sick of hearing people complain about cracking their coins out and getting a downgrade. For some reason no one writes to thank PCGS when their coin upgrades, or to offer us part of the profit they just made.>>
Sounds like the President of PCGS is a little testy here.
not really, i think he's just keeping it real. i recall several years ago at the F.U.N. Show luncheon hosted by PCGS that HRH stated from the podium that the best thing for us to do is submit in the holder for a regrade, and he outlined things exactly as DW did when he echoed the fact that the coin is graded raw during a regrade and the graders no nothing of the grade. the paranoid conspiracy theorist in us all sometimes refuses to believe that.
for my own part, i always try for a cross or regrade in the holder first, then if i really feel strongly about a coin i'll crack it out. most of the time when i fail i can see the reasons when i look at the coin more objectively.
"Barring coins being damaged each time they are handled, if the top tpgs are truly this inconsistant it's enough to dishearten even the most astute, experienced collector."
You spend years trying to figure out grading standards and then all of a sudden coins go south by 2 points. Yes it is a situation that disheartens a collector and I probably think some dealers also. This IMO is not only with crack outs but also with standard submissions. It seems very strange to me that a coin can be shown to the president of a TPG and he likes it but when it is sent in it does not cross or grade worth a darn. I guess the graders are a lot sharper than the pres.
I for one have been disheartened one too many times. The process of selling all slabs and dropping Registry Sets has already begun. Playing the game and being a "Maroon" will end.
However, nobody will pay (not may) MS66 money for a non-TPG slabbed Washington Quarter. Why should they since there are plenty of TPG graded Washingtons to choose from?
That statement is incorrect since myself and many others will happily pay MS66 money for raw coins (in our opinion) that are clearly of MS66 or better quality....even 1956-1964 Washingtons. (If you have some pq 66 raw pieces for no premium please PM). We pay those premiums because we feel it's worth more than the price being asked. Those that can grade technically will always take their risks. It's what drove the coin market long before there were TPG's. Are you saying the TPG's have replaced 2 way transactions where there is no need for both buyer and seller to evaluate the coins to their own standards? Buyers at auctions of fresh older collections do this all the time....just like the old days! Gee, we actually paid for coins on their own merits!
Therefore, the TPG's not only "report on the market" but they more or less "control" the market just by the fact that they are slabbing coins and stating that the coin is a specific "guaranteed" grade and it should sell for between x and y dollars.
I think it's quite clear by events over the past year that the TPG grade guarantee on a slab does not determine minimum or maximum market values. If the coin is a dog, it brings a big deduction assuming it can be sold in the first place. The TPG grading guarantee cannot possibly apply to all such coins graded since it would bankrupt the TPG rather quickly if even 1-5% of the total coins graded showed up at their doorstep all at once.
NOBODY can "Prove" an MS66 is not an MS66 but most of the folks could "Agree" that its not an MS66. Grading is a "mutual agreement" on grade between at least two people. It may not always be the "same" two people the "agree" on the grade which accounts for some of the wild swings seen lately.
Grading is not a mutual agreement on grade between 2 people unless they are technically knowledgeable and competent in that series. Big difference. 99+% of all coin buyers don't meet that requirment. What they do agree on is the market price transaction. Even that doesn't mean the coin is worth that price but only that they agree to transact at that level. Get enough experts in the room to achieve a concensus for a grade and that IS the market grade of the coin. But it doesn't mean it will end up in a slab with that grade or sell for market graded price. The problem is that we can't afford the 10 or 20 experts to review every coin out there. And just because 2 people trade a MS66 Washington between them doesn't mean they both know what they are doing.
PCGS has a published grading standard for MS/PR66: "MS/PR-66 = Few minor marks/hairlines not in focal areas, good strike " The above words leave a lot open for technical "interpretation" and ultimately "agreement on grade".
Agreed. But a single verbal definition is of no help when trying to define a single grading point where the amount of variations within that one point are technically infinite. 2 people can always agree on perceived market value by completing a transaction but it doesn't mean they agree on the grade of the coin, in fact more often than not they would probably disagree on the coin's technical grade/merits if they actually discussed it. More than likely they don't see the coin the same way and hence the transaction is completed because both think they are getting something beyond fair value (or some added benefit at no cost). It's basically impossible for them to agree to the exact value/grade of the coin (ie both agree it's a "MS66.5 and worth exactly $305"). If everyone agreed to exactly what a coin was there would be very few transactions, and no need for dealers.
i would challenge any member here to grade coins with the consistency that either PCGS or NGC do and to come close to the "true" grade of coins as often as either of those two services do. it is easy to criticize them when nothing is at risk, much more difficult to perform when something is. the "true" grade is the fly in the ointment.
I'am sorry BAJJERFAN I did not see the wink. I was Just venting I sent in 10 of the nices 1962 with full steps and most of them came back MS64FS and only 2 MS65FS and I see that same coin in the big auctions in MS66FS that look all mushey with worn out dies state and the ones I sent in are nice sharp dates and strikes if you open a mint set in 1962 and look at the nickels you will see what I am talking about the 1st pic is what I find most of the time when looking in rolls and mint sets I found 2 bag that had 50 new rolls in ea sealed bag and on the tag it says rolls 1962 10/14/63 and the 2nd is a MS65FS the 3rd is MS64FS I just dont get it 8 of what I sent in came back 64FS I dont know why.
MS65FS
MS64FS
And if I would have sent them in a year ago 66EZ not right.
Sometimes I feel like it is the person sending them in.
As Vinny Gambino (or is that Jerry Callo with a "C") said, "win some; lose some."
<< <i>I'am sorry BAJJERFAN I did not see the wink. I was Just venting I sent in 10 of the nices 1962 with full steps and most of them came back MS64FS and only 2 MS65FS and I see that same coin in the big auctions in MS66FS that look all mushey with worn out dies state and the ones I sent in are nice sharp dates and strikes if you open a mint set in 1962 and look at the nickels you will see what I am talking about the 1st pic is what I find most of the time when looking in rolls and mint sets I found 2 bag that had 50 new rolls in ea sealed bag and on the tag it says rolls 1962 10/14/63 and the 2nd is a MS65FS the 3rd is MS64FS I just dont get it 8 of what I sent in came back 64FS I dont know why.
MS65FS
MS64FS
And if I would have sent them in a year ago 66EZ not right. >>
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
<< <i>i would challenge any member here to grade coins with the consistency that either PCGS or NGC do and to come close to the "true" grade of coins as often as either of those two services do. it is easy to criticize them when nothing is at risk, much more difficult to perform when something is. the "true" grade is the fly in the ointment. >>
I mostly agree with Keets. It amazes me that one person reports a single second-hand story about a submission of a few coins and folks are all in a tizzy, a few seemingly ready to give up their registry sets and that part of the hobby. Folks, give me a break. This is one second hand story about a few coins. It may true, may be partially true, or may not be true at all. It is a second hand story on the Internet, anyone can write anything they want. The first hand source was described as "angry," when a person is angry they tend to skew the facts and stray far away from the truth. It may be about coins that are very tough to grade. Who knows what the actual course of events were? Certainly no one on this thread, not even the original poster.
Anyone that isn't a raw newbie that ever had the illusion of 100% consistency is a fool. Sorry that is just the truth. On how many threads have folks reported inconsistencies on various submissions, some minor, some perhaps major? How many times have I and others, implored folks to learn to grade, to avoid high grade coins if they can't grade them for themselves, to avoid trying to play the quality game, until they at least learn the basics of grading.
Don't come back to the TPGs, I believe that anger is misdirected. Consistency of grading is likely as high as it has ever been, if not, then its probably very close to an all time high. A single anecdotal second hand story means close to nothing in terms of consistency. To quote Shakespeare, the fault lies not in the stars, but in ourselves. If folks buy coins that they can grade for themselves, there isn't a problem. If folks want to play crack out games for big bucks, there is no crying for those folks. A lot of folks are playing the game, and some of them are going to be losers. That is just reality.
As always, collect what you like, enjoy the hobby. If it isn't fun, find another hobby, hobbies are supposed to be fun.
<< <i> As always, collect what you like, enjoy the hobby. If it isn't fun, find another hobby, hobbies are supposed to be fun. >>
So true. personally, I won't even buy MS coins on the internet because there has been too many "loose" periods with the TPGs and a person needs to see the coin in person, in hand, in the right light. Like Grishams law, only different and modified to make my point funny somehow -- bad slabs drive the good slabs back to be regraded for the hopeful upgrade. Now in the tightening period, it is karmic payback for those slab game profiteers.
Personally I feel there should be some type of coin judiciary (like the supreme court) that any person can nominate an ugly ass TP slab to be forced off the market place (or the coin back to the nether regions of swap meet status where some belong), and regraded, and the grader publicly caned on his bare buttocks. I am not talking caning for a point or two misgrade, but those coins that are so obviously cleaned and ugly that they make the grading pros look like meth smoking crack addicts.
The last time I looked, an MS-66 was a pretty good grade. Why throw it away chasing a long shot MS-67? MOO TD
Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Author "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or in January on Amazon.
Let me try to cap my original post by saying that although my fellow collector is presently peeved, hopefully Good will have come from this and he'll get over it. I feel certain that though he has learned a somewhat hard lesson he will benefit from it, move on & continue to grow as a collector.
I'm equally confident that he now knows he can get PCGS coins, which he strongly feels have a shot at regrading higher, done in a much safer manner - by sending them to PCGS in the existing PCGS holders. Prior to Don's post many here were unaware of this.
He is not the first to feel the sting of a backfire nor will he be the last. Many collectors talk amongst themselves about inconsistancies we've all seen. Many hold this frustration in, allow it to fester or simply quit and walk away.
Everyone here will find that our President, Don Willis, is quite accessable and easy to speak with. If any collector or dealer has issues I think it would be best to communicate directly with him.
Submitting coins to PCGS is definitely a learning experience. Learning to look at one's own coins in an unbiased manner, prior to submitting, will save one time and money. I've been working on a submission ALL DAY LONG and still, I'm not done!
Well ... back at it. Thanks for all the posts and to PCGS for hosting this forum.
<<When a coin is sent in under the Regrade Service it is cracked out and given to the graders raw. They do not know the difference between a "Regrade" submission and a "Raw" submission. Just in case you were wondering. >>
So in Boom's friends case PCGS would have cracked it out for him
Then they grade it raw and determine the grade to be 64
Since it didn't grade 66 or higher it get's to go back into a new 66 holder even though they think it's a 64 today
I actually think this stinks....Probably just me
Carry on.............MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i><<When a coin is sent in under the Regrade Service it is cracked out and given to the graders raw. They do not know the difference between a "Regrade" submission and a "Raw" submission. Just in case you were wondering. >>
So in Boom's friends case PCGS would have cracked it out for him
Then they grade it raw and determine the grade to be 64
Since it didn't grade 66 or higher it get's to go back into a new 66 holder even though they think it's a 64 today
I actually think this stinks....Probably just me
Carry on.............MJ >>
But in the regrade service if they really think it's a 64, would they put it back into a 66 holder or would they demand the submitter accept a buyback under the guarantee???
<< <<When a coin is sent in under the Regrade Service it is cracked out and given to the graders raw. They do not know the difference between a "Regrade" submission and a "Raw" submission. Just in case you were wondering. >>
So in Boom's friends case PCGS would have cracked it out for him
Then they grade it raw and determine the grade to be 64
Since it didn't grade 66 or higher it get's to go back into a new 66 holder even though they think it's a 64 today
I actually think this stinks....Probably just me
Carry on.............MJ >>
<<But in the regrade service if they really think it's a 64, would they put it back into a 66 holder or would they demand the submitter accept a buyback under the guarantee???>>
Man, I can't see how this would be practical and that would open up another whole can of worms me thinks...................MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I'm totally with Don Willis. I never crack out my own coins. I trust Don when he says PCGS cracks the coins sent for regrade. I do not believe or trust the folks who think PCGS has a holder bias when doing regrades.
I see no downside to letting PCGS take the downgrade risk.
However there are plenty of people who crack out coins. I've learned about several Washington Quarter crack out attempts recently: Poor Washie crack out results..
The fact that the coins come back with different grades says something about grading consistency. It is one of the reasons I support dating the grading opinion on the holder. It would help us analyze if PCGS was being stricter than usual or not.
I am constantly amazed at the emotions evoked over TPG grades/regrades etc... You are paying for a professional OPINION, and it is given in a fair and professional manner. Which also brings me to the point, if you do not know how the grading process works, find out or keep quiet. Learn to grade yourself - it is a process and has standards, albeit somewhat soft standards. Hundreds of thousands of coins are graded each year, and the process will undoubtedly produce some anomalies. There is a process for redress. If you are going to spend your money in this game, stop b*tching. Reminds me of the people that go to Vegas - if they win, all is well, if they lose, the games are rigged. What a load of bovine excrement. Listen to Keets and RedTiger or get out of the game. Cheers, RickO
Many collectors' feel just like this (copied & pasted) and is a major reason for declining interest in submitting coins to PCGS and "The Registry".
<< "Barring coins being damaged each time they are handled, if the top tpgs are truly this inconsistant it's enough to dishearten even the most astute, experienced collector."
You spend years trying to figure out grading standards and then all of a sudden coins go south by 2 points. Yes it is a situation that disheartens a collector and I probably think some dealers also. This IMO is not only with crack outs but also with standard submissions. It seems very strange to me that a coin can be shown to the president of a TPG and he likes it but when it is sent in it does not cross or grade worth a darn. I guess the graders are a lot sharper than the pres.
I for one have been disheartened one too many times. The process of selling all slabs and dropping Registry Sets has already begun. Playing the game and being a "Maroon" will end.
Countless threads written by a broad spectrum of collectors & dealers express due concern over tight grading and blatant inconsistancies.
When providing a Service, for which one is compensated handsomely, realistically there should be a given set of standards that applies to ALL submitters.
No company will continue to exist for long once Confidence is lost. People DO get tired of having their intelligence insulted. No one is asking for favors.
Simply set standards/ guidelines and apply them equally to EVERYONE! It's not that difficult and needs to be addressed as opposed to poofing or sweeping
under the rug - particularly IF you really care about the Life of your Company.
JMHO, FWIW! No accusations or Malice intended. Remember, I LIKE PCGS!
Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Author "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or in January on Amazon.
Now, children...everyone go outside and play...it is much too nice to stay inside...
Re: Slabbed coins - There are some coins that LIVE within clear plastic and wear their labels with pride... while there are others that HIDE behind scratched plastic and are simply dragged along by a label. Then there are those coins that simply hang out, naked and free
Comments
<< <i>The thing is...TPG are so inconsistent that in many ways grading has become pointless as a means of knowing the true grade of a coin. Constant inconsistency, constantly changing standards and perceived preferential treatment to big customers makes grading just a game and a gamble with luck playing more a part of it than what your coin actually is.
The best in the business PCGS and NGC ought to be able to get it right 99% of the time and truthfully, if they are training everyone the same and working hard on quality control, a person should get the same grade every time he submits a coin. If they built the rules and they train their graders, a coin should tell the same story to everyone that looks at it.
Now PCGS is really being hard on coins for reasons I do not understand. You can expect virtually any coin sent in now to score one notch lower than normal and one notch lower than it actually is.
FEC >>
Very well said
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
If 'normal' coins grade a point lower now, I wouldn't want to resubmit any of the OBH coins
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
<< <i>How does one "prove" that an MS66 is not really an MS66?
In the case above, resubmit the coin at least several more times. If most times it comes back a grade lower than 66 then it's not a 66. For best results, try this 10 times. The majority opinon wins. If you don't have the $200-$300 to waste in 10 grading fees and postage to try this experiment, then you'll just have to rely on the last grading event. When it finally comes time to sell the coin, the market will tell you what the grade is. If no one is willing to pay you near 66 money for the coin, it's probably not a 66. Step down a grade and repeat. Continue until the coin sells.
roadrunner >>
I guess you are assuming that the market knows how to grade the coin, which if it did then there is no need for the TPGs in the first place. Also how do you know at which point even half of the potential buyers have seen the coin? I haven't looked at 1903-S Morgans on Heritage in months so if that is your venue, you are missing me and no doubt some others too.
<< <i>The thing is...TPG are so inconsistent that in many ways grading has become pointless as a means of knowing the true grade of a coin. Constant inconsistency, constantly changing standards and perceived preferential treatment to big customers makes grading just a game and a gamble with luck playing more a part of it than what your coin actually is.
The best in the business PCGS and NGC ought to be able to get it right 99% of the time and truthfully, if they are training everyone the same and working hard on quality control, a person should get the same grade every time he submits a coin. If they built the rules and they train their graders, a coin should tell the same story to everyone that looks at it.
Now PCGS is really being hard on coins for reasons I do not understand. You can expect virtually any coin sent in now to score one notch lower than normal and one notch lower than it actually is.
FEC >>
I guess they really like seeing that green thing on their slabs.
The overwhelming % of what I sell on & off eBay is PCGS product,
usually Washington Quarters - sometimes other US Type.
I freely choose to buy & sell their product and to submit the
vast Majority of my coins to them.
They have graded my coins quite fairly, whether sent in RAW
for x-over or for regrade. No complaints here.
My friend, that is slightly disheartened hopefully will learn from this
and NOT give up & Quit! He still has a lot to learn.
<< <i>The thing is...TPG are so inconsistent that in many ways grading has become pointless as a means of knowing the true grade of a coin. Constant inconsistency, constantly changing standards and perceived preferential treatment to big customers makes grading just a game and a gamble with luck playing more a part of it than what your coin actually is.
The best in the business PCGS and NGC ought to be able to get it right 99% of the time and truthfully, if they are training everyone the same and working hard on quality control, a person should get the same grade every time he submits a coin. If they built the rules and they train their graders, a coin should tell the same story to everyone that looks at it.
Now PCGS is really being hard on coins for reasons I do not understand. You can expect virtually any coin sent in now to score one notch lower than normal and one notch lower than it actually is.
FEC >>
Just how good and consistent would you be if you had to grade 2500 Morgans every day, each one being somewhat different and smoe sharpie deliberately trying to set you up so you grade in his favor?
<< <i>
<< <i>How does one "prove" that an MS66 is not really an MS66?
In the case above, resubmit the coin at least several more times. If most times it comes back a grade lower than 66 then it's not a 66. For best results, try this 10 times. The majority opinon wins. If you don't have the $200-$300 to waste in 10 grading fees and postage to try this experiment, then you'll just have to rely on the last grading event. When it finally comes time to sell the coin, the market will tell you what the grade is. If no one is willing to pay you near 66 money for the coin, it's probably not a 66. Step down a grade and repeat. Continue until the coin sells.
roadrunner >>
I guess you are assuming that the market knows how to grade the coin, which if it did then there is no need for the TPGs in the first place. Also how do you know at which point even half of the potential buyers have seen the coin? I haven't looked at 1903-S Morgans on Heritage in months so if that is your venue, you are missing me and no doubt some others too. >>
First off, the market is non-existent for 1956 to 1964 Washington quarters except for what the TPG's list in their price guides and obvious MS67's. If there were a market, then "perceived" MS66 Washington quarters would sell for MS66 money.
However, nobody will pay (not may) MS66 money for a non-TPG slabbed Washington Quarter. Why should they since there are plenty of TPG graded Washingtons to choose from? Therefore, the TPG's not only "report on the market" but they more or less "control" the market just by the fact that they are slabbing coins and stating that the coin is a specific "guaranteed" grade and it should sell for between x and y dollars.
Secondly, roadrunners response does not address my question which was "How does one "prove" that an MS66 is not really an MS66?"
The answer is simple.
NOBODY can "Prove" an MS66 is not an MS66 but most of the folks could "Agree" that its not an MS66. Grading is a "mutual agreement" on grade between at least two people. It may not always be the "same" two people the "agree" on the grade which accounts for some of the wild swings seen lately.
PCGS has a published grading standard for MS/PR66:
"MS/PR-66 = Few minor marks/hairlines not in focal areas, good strike "
The above words leave a lot open for technical "interpretation" and ultimately "agreement on grade".
The name is LEE!
coins to screen for submission, tight or not!
Later dudes!
PCGS offers a safe alternative to the crackout game. It's our "Regrade Service" under which you can send your coin in for grade review, and possible upgrade. Under the Regrade Service, PCGS guarantees that your coin will not be downgraded. A risk free alternative that I highly recommend for all collectors. So what's the problem?
If someone thinks they are a good enough grader to play the crackout game then they shouldn't complain when it doesn't go their way.
Edited to add: When a coin is sent in under the Regrade Service it is cracked out and given to the graders raw. They do not know the difference between a "Regrade" submission and a "Raw" submission. Just in case you were wondering.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
<< <i>I am sick of hearing people complain about cracking their coins out and getting a downgrade. For some reason no one writes to thank PCGS when their coin upgrades, or to offer us part of the profit they just made.
PCGS offers a safe alternative to the crackout game. It's our "Regrade Service" under which you can send your coin in for grade review, and possible upgrade. Under the Regrade Service, PCGS guarantees that your coin will not be downgraded. A risk free alternative that I highly recommend for all collectors. So what's the problem?
If someone thinks they are a good enough grader to play the crackout game then they shouldn't complain when it doesn't go their way.
Edited to add: When a coin is sent in under the Regrade Service it is cracked out and given to the graders raw. They do not know the difference between a "Regrade" submission and a "Raw" submission. Just in case you were wondering. >>
Don, I fully understand and accept that there could always be a 'one grade' difference when re-submitting a coin.
I respectfully submit that it's not the 'one' grade difference that bothers me, but rather the 'two' grade difference. (or more)
When I appraised diamonds, I preferred to grade the diamond's color with two grades, such as G-H. Thereby allowing me in future to still grade it correctly as G-H or if I was a little off, I'd grade it either an 'F-G' or an 'H-I', thereby still grading it with a 'G' or 'H' color. I would still be consistent and I usually was, over my 20 span of appraising.
You have to admit, when there's a two grade difference (ie, an ms66 being graded as an ms64) then someone was definitely wrong, either the first time or the last time.
This is the frustrating part, especially when we're dealing with the number 1 company in the world for grading coins.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
Hoard the keys.
<< <i>Why not put a date in the holder when the coin was graded or is there a way to find out when it was graded?
They do LOL, this one was graded in 1922. All ya gotta do is read the label.
they are so busy they have the president working on a Sunday
I may be interested in buying your friends new 64's
<< <i>give em a break
they are so busy they have the president working on a Sunday
>>
He may be home on his laptop sipping on a martini....
<< <i>
<< <i>give em a break
they are so busy they have the president working on a Sunday
>>
He may be home on his laptop sipping on a martini....
Dat's da best idea I've heard all day!
Later!!!
and the coin is a 1946 I know just send it back and we will fix it $$ there and back with Ins I'll just keep it nice to look at. I was saying the date when it was graded not the date of the coin.
Hoard the keys.
<< <i>This date on the lable.
and the coin is a 1946 I know just send it back and we will fix it $$ there and back with Ins I'll just keep it nice to look at. I was saying the date when it was graded not the date of the coin.
Yassuh, I know. Dintcha ketch my winky?
I'm thinkin they don't want sellers trying to make up stories about a coin being more or less strickly graded based upon being graded during a particular day or time. I'm sure that some would do this to try and one-up some new or inexperienced collector.
this is the part of the "game" that gets little attention. guys just love to brag about how smart they are, how much of a hot-shot grader they are and how they "clean-up" at the crack out game. they need to learn how to take their lumps with grace instead of this typical whine-moan-bitch-complain when things don't go according to plan. it's just a bit pathetic.
<< <i>Well, it appears this person was counting on the inconsistency of PCGS to reward the 66 purchase with a 67 slab, so why should the reverse be any different?
this is the part of the "game" that gets little attention. guys just love to brag about how smart they are, how much of a hot-shot grader they are and how they "clean-up" at the crack out game. they need to learn how to take their lumps with grace instead of this typical whine-moan-bitch-complain when things don't go according to plan. it's just a bit pathetic. >>
<< <i>I am sick of hearing people complain about cracking their coins out and getting a downgrade. For some reason no one writes to thank PCGS when their coin upgrades, or to offer us part of the profit they just made.
PCGS offers a safe alternative to the crackout game. It's our "Regrade Service" under which you can send your coin in for grade review, and possible upgrade. Under the Regrade Service, PCGS guarantees that your coin will not be downgraded. A risk free alternative that I highly recommend for all collectors. So what's the problem?
If someone thinks they are a good enough grader to play the crackout game then they shouldn't complain when it doesn't go their way.
Edited to add: When a coin is sent in under the Regrade Service it is cracked out and given to the graders raw. They do not know the difference between a "Regrade" submission and a "Raw" submission. Just in case you were wondering. >>
Thanks for the clarification Don and the piece of information regarding re-grades. I never knew this.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Well, it appears this person was counting on the inconsistency of PCGS to reward the 66 purchase with a 67 slab, so why should the reverse be any different?
this is the part of the "game" that gets little attention. guys just love to brag about how smart they are, how much of a hot-shot grader they are and how they "clean-up" at the crack out game. they need to learn how to take their lumps with grace instead of this typical whine-moan-bitch-complain when things don't go according to plan. it's just a bit pathetic. >>
That's a good way to put it. People who want to play the crackout game must walk the walk and accept the consequences when things don't go their way.
Aspiring crackout players should take the opportunity to watch and learn from more famous crackout guys. The vast majority of those guys seldomly complain nor become angry when their coins don't grade the way they expected them to.
In the opening post it doesn't sound like the submitter ever took the time to thank PCGS for upgrading his MS66 quarters to MS67's yet he found the opportunity to sulk in anger when the results went the other way.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
and have used it several times with exactly 60% success ratio <regrading higher>.
It makes no sense to crack a sure thing out when you can have them regraded risk-free.
PCGS has been very fair to me in this department.
Thanks for clarifying for those that did not know, Don.
Sounds like the President of PCGS is a little testy here.
for my own part, i always try for a cross or regrade in the holder first, then if i really feel strongly about a coin i'll crack it out. most of the time when i fail i can see the reasons when i look at the coin more objectively.
You spend years trying to figure out grading standards and then all of a sudden coins go south by 2 points. Yes it is a situation that disheartens a collector and I probably think some dealers also. This IMO is not only with crack outs but also with standard submissions. It seems very strange to me that a coin can be shown to the president of a TPG and he likes it but when it is sent in it does not cross or grade worth a darn. I guess the graders are a lot sharper than the pres.
I for one have been disheartened one too many times. The process of selling all slabs and dropping Registry Sets has already begun. Playing the game and being a "Maroon" will end.
Ken
That statement is incorrect since myself and many others will happily pay MS66 money for raw coins (in our opinion) that are clearly of MS66 or better quality....even 1956-1964 Washingtons. (If you have some pq 66 raw pieces for no premium please PM). We pay those premiums because we feel it's worth more than the price being asked. Those that can grade technically will always take their risks. It's what drove the coin market long before there were TPG's. Are you saying the TPG's have replaced 2 way transactions where there is no need for both buyer and seller to evaluate the coins to their own standards? Buyers at auctions of fresh older collections do this all the time....just like the old days! Gee, we actually paid for coins on their own merits!
Therefore, the TPG's not only "report on the market" but they more or less "control" the market just by the fact that they are slabbing coins and stating that the coin is a specific "guaranteed" grade and it should sell for between x and y dollars.
I think it's quite clear by events over the past year that the TPG grade guarantee on a slab does not determine minimum or maximum market values. If the coin is a dog, it brings a big deduction assuming it can be sold in the first place. The TPG grading guarantee cannot possibly apply to all such coins graded since it would bankrupt the TPG rather quickly if even 1-5% of the total coins graded showed up at their doorstep all at once.
NOBODY can "Prove" an MS66 is not an MS66 but most of the folks could "Agree" that its not an MS66. Grading is a "mutual agreement" on grade between at least two people. It may not always be the "same" two people the "agree" on the grade which accounts for some of the wild swings seen lately.
Grading is not a mutual agreement on grade between 2 people unless they are technically knowledgeable and competent in that series. Big difference. 99+% of all coin buyers don't meet that requirment. What they do agree on is the market price transaction. Even that doesn't mean the coin is worth that price but only that they agree to transact at that level. Get enough experts in the room to achieve a concensus for a grade and that IS the market grade of the coin. But it doesn't mean it will end up in a slab with that grade or sell for market graded price. The problem is that we can't afford the 10 or 20 experts to review every coin out there. And just because 2 people trade a MS66 Washington between them doesn't mean they both know what they are doing.
PCGS has a published grading standard for MS/PR66:
"MS/PR-66 = Few minor marks/hairlines not in focal areas, good strike " The above words leave a lot open for technical "interpretation" and ultimately "agreement on grade".
Agreed. But a single verbal definition is of no help when trying to define a single grading point where the amount of variations within that one point are technically infinite. 2 people can always agree on perceived market value by completing a transaction but it doesn't mean they agree on the grade of the coin, in fact more often than not they would probably disagree on the coin's technical grade/merits if they actually discussed it. More than likely they don't see the coin the same way and hence the transaction is completed because both think they are getting something beyond fair value (or some added benefit at no cost). It's basically impossible for them to agree to the exact value/grade of the coin (ie both agree it's a "MS66.5 and worth exactly $305"). If everyone agreed to exactly what a coin was there would be very few transactions, and no need for dealers.
roadrunner
MS65FS
MS64FS
And if I would have sent them in a year ago 66EZ not right.
Hoard the keys.
instead of wondering why more of the coins didn't grade MS65FS perhaps you should be grateful for the "gift" you have pictured in that grade.
As Vinny Gambino (or is that Jerry Callo with a "C") said, "win some; lose some."
<< <i>I'am sorry BAJJERFAN I did not see the wink. I was Just venting I sent in 10 of the nices 1962 with full steps and most of them came back MS64FS and only 2 MS65FS and I see that same coin in the big auctions in MS66FS that look all mushey with worn out dies state and the ones I sent in are nice sharp dates and strikes if you open a mint set in 1962 and look at the nickels you will see what I am talking about the 1st pic is what I find most of the time when looking in rolls and mint sets I found 2 bag that had 50 new rolls in ea sealed bag and on the tag it says rolls 1962 10/14/63 and the 2nd is a MS65FS the 3rd is MS64FS I just dont get it 8 of what I sent in came back 64FS I dont know why.
MS65FS
MS64FS
And if I would have sent them in a year ago 66EZ not right. >>
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
<< <i>i would challenge any member here to grade coins with the consistency that either PCGS or NGC do and to come close to the "true" grade of coins as often as either of those two services do. it is easy to criticize them when nothing is at risk, much more difficult to perform when something is. the "true" grade is the fly in the ointment. >>
I mostly agree with Keets. It amazes me that one person reports a single second-hand story about a submission of a few coins and folks are all in a tizzy, a few seemingly ready to give up their registry sets and that part of the hobby. Folks, give me a break. This is one second hand story about a few coins. It may true, may be partially true, or may not be true at all. It is a second hand story on the Internet, anyone can write anything they want. The first hand source was described as "angry," when a person is angry they tend to skew the facts and stray far away from the truth. It may be about coins that are very tough to grade. Who knows what the actual course of events were? Certainly no one on this thread, not even the original poster.
Anyone that isn't a raw newbie that ever had the illusion of 100% consistency is a fool. Sorry that is just the truth. On how many threads have folks reported inconsistencies on various submissions, some minor, some perhaps major? How many times have I and others, implored folks to learn to grade, to avoid high grade coins if they can't grade them for themselves, to avoid trying to play the quality game, until they at least learn the basics of grading.
Don't come back to the TPGs, I believe that anger is misdirected. Consistency of grading is likely as high as it has ever been, if not, then its probably very close to an all time high. A single anecdotal second hand story means close to nothing in terms of consistency. To quote Shakespeare, the fault lies not in the stars, but in ourselves. If folks buy coins that they can grade for themselves, there isn't a problem. If folks want to play crack out games for big bucks, there is no crying for those folks. A lot of folks are playing the game, and some of them are going to be losers. That is just reality.
As always, collect what you like, enjoy the hobby. If it isn't fun, find another hobby, hobbies are supposed to be fun.
<< <i>
As always, collect what you like, enjoy the hobby. If it isn't fun, find another hobby, hobbies are supposed to be fun. >>
So true. personally, I won't even buy MS coins on the internet because there has been too many "loose" periods with the TPGs and a person needs to see the coin in person, in hand, in the right light. Like Grishams law, only different and modified to make my point funny somehow -- bad slabs drive the good slabs back to be regraded for the hopeful upgrade. Now in the tightening period, it is karmic payback for those slab game profiteers.
Personally I feel there should be some type of coin judiciary (like the supreme court) that any person can nominate an ugly ass TP slab to be forced off the market place (or the coin back to the nether regions of swap meet status where some belong), and regraded, and the grader publicly caned on his bare buttocks. I am not talking caning for a point or two misgrade, but those coins that are so obviously cleaned and ugly that they make the grading pros look like meth smoking crack addicts.
Anyway, some blasphemous thoughts on the hobby.
Tyler
Why throw it away chasing a long shot MS-67?
MOO
TD
and he'll get over it. I feel certain that though he has learned a somewhat hard lesson he will benefit from it, move on & continue to grow
as a collector.
I'm equally confident that he now knows he can get PCGS coins, which he strongly feels have a shot at regrading higher, done in a
much safer manner - by sending them to PCGS in the existing PCGS holders. Prior to Don's post many here were unaware of this.
He is not the first to feel the sting of a backfire nor will he be the last. Many collectors talk amongst themselves about inconsistancies we've
all seen. Many hold this frustration in, allow it to fester or simply quit and walk away.
Everyone here will find that our President, Don Willis, is quite accessable and easy to speak with. If any collector or dealer has issues I think
it would be best to communicate directly with him.
Submitting coins to PCGS is definitely a learning experience. Learning to look at one's own coins in an unbiased manner, prior to submitting,
will save one time and money. I've been working on a submission ALL DAY LONG and still, I'm not done!
Well ... back at it.
So in Boom's friends case PCGS would have cracked it out for him
Then they grade it raw and determine the grade to be 64
Since it didn't grade 66 or higher it get's to go back into a new 66 holder even though they think it's a 64 today
I actually think this stinks....Probably just me
Carry on.............MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>
<< <i>You runs the risk, you takes your chances. >>
Successful Trades: Swampboy,
<< <i><<When a coin is sent in under the Regrade Service it is cracked out and given to the graders raw. They do not know the difference between a "Regrade" submission and a "Raw" submission. Just in case you were wondering. >>
So in Boom's friends case PCGS would have cracked it out for him
Then they grade it raw and determine the grade to be 64
Since it didn't grade 66 or higher it get's to go back into a new 66 holder even though they think it's a 64 today
I actually think this stinks....Probably just me
Carry on.............MJ >>
But in the regrade service if they really think it's a 64, would they put it back into a 66 holder or would they demand the submitter accept a buyback under the guarantee???
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
So in Boom's friends case PCGS would have cracked it out for him
Then they grade it raw and determine the grade to be 64
Since it didn't grade 66 or higher it get's to go back into a new 66 holder even though they think it's a 64 today
I actually think this stinks....Probably just me
Carry on.............MJ >>
<<But in the regrade service if they really think it's a 64, would they put it back into a 66 holder or would they demand the submitter accept a buyback under the guarantee???>>
Man, I can't see how this would be practical and that would open up another whole can of worms me thinks...................MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I see no downside to letting PCGS take the downgrade risk.
However there are plenty of people who crack out coins. I've learned about several Washington Quarter crack out attempts recently: Poor Washie crack out results..
The fact that the coins come back with different grades says something about grading consistency. It is one of the reasons I support dating the grading opinion on the holder. It would help us analyze if PCGS was being stricter than usual or not.
Many collectors' feel just like this (copied & pasted) and is a major reason for declining interest in submitting coins to PCGS and "The Registry".
<< "Barring coins being damaged each time they are handled, if the top tpgs are truly this inconsistant it's enough to dishearten even the most astute, experienced collector."
You spend years trying to figure out grading standards and then all of a sudden coins go south by 2 points. Yes it is a situation that disheartens a collector and I probably think some dealers also. This IMO is not only with crack outs but also with standard submissions. It seems very strange to me that a coin can be shown to the president of a TPG and he likes it but when it is sent in it does not cross or grade worth a darn. I guess the graders are a lot sharper than the pres.
I for one have been disheartened one too many times. The process of selling all slabs and dropping Registry Sets has already begun. Playing the game and being a "Maroon" will end.
Ken >>
***************************************************************************************************************************************************************
Countless threads written by a broad spectrum of collectors & dealers express due concern over tight grading and blatant inconsistancies.
When providing a Service, for which one is compensated handsomely, realistically there should be a given set of standards that applies to ALL submitters.
No company will continue to exist for long once Confidence is lost. People DO get tired of having their intelligence insulted. No one is asking for favors.
Simply set standards/ guidelines and apply them equally to EVERYONE! It's not that difficult and needs to be addressed as opposed to poofing or sweeping
under the rug - particularly IF you really care about the Life of your Company.
JMHO, FWIW! No accusations or Malice intended. Remember, I LIKE PCGS!
Respectfully,
B00M ~
Now, children...everyone go outside and play...it is much too nice to stay inside...