Fellow collector very peeved! NO! He is SOME Mad!!!
Boom
Posts: 10,165 ✭
A friend has been submitting & making then re-submitting known PCGS coins for regrade,
and has enjoyed results that till lately has had him coming back for more.
He succeeded in making some 66s and even had some regrade higher to 67.
He cracked out known PCGS 66s and submitted them RAW hoping to score again
but right now he's fit to be tied because beautiful no brainer 66s that are "shot 67"
now reside in PCGS 64 slabs.
Why the inconsistancy is anybody's guess!
Anyone know for sure if a different crew of graders do the "freebies"?
I feel for the guy because he's definitely not stupid.
*Edit spelling*
and has enjoyed results that till lately has had him coming back for more.
He succeeded in making some 66s and even had some regrade higher to 67.
He cracked out known PCGS 66s and submitted them RAW hoping to score again
but right now he's fit to be tied because beautiful no brainer 66s that are "shot 67"
now reside in PCGS 64 slabs.
Why the inconsistancy is anybody's guess!
Anyone know for sure if a different crew of graders do the "freebies"?
I feel for the guy because he's definitely not stupid.
*Edit spelling*
0
Comments
Camelot
It is NOT very wise to crack out known PCGS 66
trying to go 67 especially with the series in question.
just like shootin craps - hope the roll is in your favor..
into those very new, vogue Genuine/Net holders.
They really are the newest in coin fashion these days.....
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
I'm sure he'll realize it and will get back in the Game.
I NEVER submit coins for re-grade having cracked them out of existing PCGS holders.
NO WAY!
I feel for the guy because he's definitely not stupid.
He cracked out a 66 and it came back a 64, and he's not stupid??
<< <i>I feel for the guy because he's definitely not stupid.
He cracked out a 66 and it came back a 64, and he's not stupid??
Nah, more like unlucky or jinxed.
<< <i>You runs the risk, you takes your chances. >>
<< <i>A friend has been submitting & making then re-submitting known PCGS coins for regrade,
and has enjoyed results that till lately has had him coming back for more.
He succeeded in making some 66s and even had some regrade higher to 67.
He cracked out known PCGS 66s and submitted them RAW hoping to score again
but right now he's fit to be tied because beautiful no brainer 66s that are "shot 67"
now reside in PCGS 64 slabs.
Why the inconsistancy is anybody's guess!
Anyone know for sure if a different crew of graders do the "freebies"?
I feel for the guy because he's definitely not stupid.
*Edit spelling* >>
There is absolutely NO WAY such a thing could happen...I refuse to believe such nonsense... it flies in the face of everything I have ever believed... renders all my kool aid tasteless...
PCGS is the best grading service on the entire planet... no in the known universe... and they are the most consistant grading service of all time... this type of talk must caese and desist... it is pure blasphemey...
I will now close my eyes and stick my fingers in my ears... I will listen to no more of this vile talk...
Hoard the keys.
<< <i>I know that coins I sent in last year that went MS-66 and if I sent them in today they will now be 65 and 4's so I know there is new blood in the room. >>
New blood? Maybe more like a change in philosophy...
Collector of Early 20th Century U.S. Coinage.
ANA Member R-3147111
is much more money, PCGS tends to be a bit tighter on the grading.
At MS-66, It becomes risky today to crack it out in the hope of a
MS-67. Remember, PCGS grade guarantee makes any mistake rather
expensive. Remember, even crack out artests are getting burned playing
the game today.
Camelot
<< <i>A friend has been submitting & making then re-submitting known PCGS coins for regrade,
and has enjoyed results that till lately has had him coming back for more.
He succeeded in making some 66s and even had some regrade higher to 67.
He cracked out known PCGS 66s and submitted them RAW hoping to score again
but right now he's fit to be tied because beautiful no brainer 66s that are "shot 67"
now reside in PCGS 64 slabs.
Why the inconsistancy is anybody's guess!
Anyone know for sure if a different crew of graders do the "freebies"?
I feel for the guy because he's definitely not stupid.
*Edit spelling* >>
Well, it appears this person was counting on the inconsistency of PCGS to reward the 66 purchase with a 67 slab, so why should the reverse be any different?
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>Well, it appears this person was counting on the inconsistency of PCGS to reward the 66 purchase with a 67 slab, so why should the reverse be any different? >>
Bingo
what type of coins is he sending in exactly because i find this very
hard to believe with most types.
where are some pics or proof of this.
on the other hand this makes for a good weekend post to stir the
pot.
the difference between a 66 compared to a 64 with half eagles for
example is a night and day difference.
<< <i> NEVER submit coins for re-grade having cracked them out of existing PCGS holders. >>
No GUTS,,,,,, No GLORY
GrandAm
<< <i>Ouch! A bird in the hand is better than 2 in the bush, Isn't a PCGS 66 like the same as a ACG 72?
Careful or folks might begin to wonder if you really ARE a newbie.....................ACG hasn't been dissed like this for about 3 and a half years.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>You runs the risk, you takes your chances. >>
No pity here either. But aren't we being a bit too easy on PCGS. IMO it is an outrage that a once holdered 66 can find its way into a 64 holder. Collectors deserve better and the only way this happens is because of the BS games the TPGs play with their tightening and loosening cycles. Either that or their grading frankly sucks.
I couldn't have said it any better, Fats!
Barring coins being damaged each time they are handled, if the top tpgs are truly this inconsistant it's enough to dishearten even the most astute, experienced collector.
Personally, I'd like to see the Before & After pics of the coins in question.
I've no reason to doubt him but I'll ask him if he has taken such pictures.
All the TPG's, led by the very biggest (PCGS) are currently in an 'ultra-strict' mode of grading.
It's too bad really (and totally unforgivable), but is a result of their 'loosening' of grading standards 2 to 5 years ago.
I have lost a good deal of respect for all these companies because they have shown that they have put 'making a dollar' much ahead of the collector and should have made it their number 1 goal to maintain a level grading standard throughout the years.
I'm in Canada, but if I was in the US, I'd go to every coin show and buy up all these undergraded recently graded ms64 coins I could find.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>What a maroon!!! >>
Are you refering to the submitter or the grading service who is inconsistent?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
It shouldn't be.
A coin IS what it is and should be EVERY time it's graded!
Barring damage from handling.
Futhermore a MS 67 what's that? Haven't seen to many in Morgans or other types of old coinage, that table is usually for the big spenders.
The differences in MS64 to MS66 Washington Quarters, or other coins from the saved roll era are relatively minute imo. The coins were saved heavily in roll quantity and typically only a few scattered marks/scuffs make the difference between grades of 63 to 66. The variations in luster, strike, and toning tend to be smaller than coins minted decades earlier. Pre-1930 coins, and especially 19th century coinage varies widely with respect to luster, strike, toning, amount of cleaning, and marks. Typically the difference between a MS64 to MS66 seated, bust, or Barber coin is fairly large, esp in the luster department. I compare MS64 to MS66 walkers, washingtons, mercs, etc and find the differences to be much smaller. I've picked up many a 64 Walker and wondered why it wasn't a 65 or better. I've also picked up 66 Walkers and Washingtons and wondered why they weren't 65's or 64's. I've rarely picked up a MS66 seated half and wondered why it wasn't a 64. So I'm not surprised that MS66 Washingtons could regrade 64 the next time around. Anyone expecting a coin to grade the same grade every time in is not being realistic. You can't put the top 20 graders in the world together with unlimited grading time and achieve a 90% concensus on grading. It just won't happen. They will disagree and in some cases up to 2 or more mint state points.
The last grading event does not necessarily define the coin's true grade. It only tells you what it graded during the last grading event. If a 1932 Wash Qtr grades MS65 on 8 out of 10 submissions and 64 and 66 on the other 2, it is properly graded as a 65. The market "should" value it as a MS65 whether raw or slabbed. But in a 64 holder go and try to get even 70% of MS65 money on such a coin. We are all eager buyers of the 64 of course (at bid) but might not be happy having to pay double 65 money for the 66 grade. If the last grading event on the coin was a 64, it doesn't define the grade just as the 66 would not. Such a coin is destined to end up in a 66 holder until such a time that a crackout genius comes along and thinks it has a 67 shot and gets bad news when it grades 65. It's at that time that the above grading process repeats itself up to 9 more times until the coin once again ends up in a 66 holder...waiting for the next genius to appear.
roadrunner
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>You runs the risk, you takes your chances. >>
No pity here either. But aren't we being a bit too easy on PCGS. IMO it is an outrage that a once holdered 66 can find its way into a 64 holder. Collectors deserve better and the only way this happens is because of the BS games the TPGs play with their tightening and loosening cycles. Either that or their grading frankly sucks. >>
Just to play Devil's Advocate here, but what is the difference between a high end 64 and low end 66? The difference is just over one grade point, which most folks would think is pretty darn consistent.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>come on people, if everyone was happy with the grades they got, there would be no reason to keep re-submitting them for a higher grade. re-submissions = revenue. the grading game (and yes it is a game) sounds too much like buying from the mint, people that do it, hate doing it and beech about the result, but they still continue doing it. im one of the lucky few that doesnt need a chunk of plastic or a piece of paper to like what i collect. >>
I totally agree with you.
However, if you want to sell any coins, then you have to have them entombed in plastic and are therefore drawn into the perilous game of TPG grading.
For collectors who never sell, then plastic is not necessary.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
depends on what you collect
ive sold off many coins in the last few years, none of them in slabs. and im not talking $20-$30 coins, while i agree that it is much easier to sell a slabbed 14d cent than raw, i cannot buy into the re-sub game, maybe if there was some measure of consistency, alas, there is not. for now my coins are happy in vinyl flips
How does one "prove" that an MS66 is not really an MS66?
The name is LEE!
<< <i>I need to ask a question.
How does one "prove" that an MS66 is not really an MS66? >>
it takes a series of steps.
the first step is to write down and document your standards for grading each
grade in descriptive and affirmative language. No beating around
the bush with the description. If a full strike is needed for 66 that
should be listed and made to be necessary for consideration. Etc...
Only then can one start the process of identifying what a coin should
grade.
"Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."
~Wayne
Alas, if this is true then every Professional golfer is insane
as is every other athlete on every level, every musician etc
that practices and aspires to better him or herself.
<< <i>Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results. >>
It's not insane to resubmitt a coin because you frequently will get different results.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
In the case above, resubmit the coin at least several more times. If most times it comes back a grade lower than 66 then it's not a 66. For best results, try this 10 times. The majority opinon wins. If you don't have the $200-$300 to waste in 10 grading fees and postage to try this experiment, then you'll just have to rely on the last grading event. When it finally comes time to sell the coin, the market will tell you what the grade is. If no one is willing to pay you near 66 money for the coin, it's probably not a 66. Step down a grade and repeat. Continue until the coin sells.
roadrunner
will inevitably achieve some degree of skill at whatever that one thing happens to be.
Everyone has a starting point and begins to learn, eventually gaining experience.... unless they quit.
This would be true regardless what that one thing happens to be.
When someone does it enough & turns "Pro" <becomes Professional> .... well, you get the picture, I'm sure!
The best in the business PCGS and NGC ought to be able to get it right 99% of the time and truthfully, if they are training everyone the same and working hard on quality control, a person should get the same grade every time he submits a coin. If they built the rules and they train their graders, a coin should tell the same story to everyone that looks at it.
Now PCGS is really being hard on coins for reasons I do not understand. You can expect virtually any coin sent in now to score one notch lower than normal and one notch lower than it actually is.
FEC