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3 Raw Morgans need your grading expertise.....

DoubleEagle59DoubleEagle59 Posts: 8,341 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
I'd like your opinion on these three Morgans.

None are slabbed.

My opinion is as follows:

1880-O ms63 (longshot at ms64)

1899-O ms64 (good chance at ms65)

1904-O ms65 (good chance at ms66)

image
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"Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)

"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)

"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)

Comments

  • Cam40Cam40 Posts: 8,146 ✭
    they all look close,if not spot-on,to the grades you listed.
  • SamByrdSamByrd Posts: 3,131 ✭✭✭✭
    first 63 or 64, second 64 , third way 65.
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,219 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'd grade them all as MS-64.

    You will not get an MS-66 on the 1904-O because the strike is typical with the breast feathers on the eagle flat. That date does come fully struck, and those are the coins that get the honor grades, like MS-66.

    The 1880-O could slab as low as MS-63 for lack of luster, but it shouldn't.

    The 1899-O has too many small marks to make MS-65.

    With common dates like this the TPGs don't spend much time agonizing over the grades. The grades can be inflated, but more often they end up on the conservative side.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • Steve27Steve27 Posts: 13,274 ✭✭✭
    I agree with Bill, all MS64 (the 1904-O is a really nice coin but the lack of feathers limits it to a 64 in a PCGS slab).
    "It's far easier to fight for principles, than to live up to them." Adlai Stevenson
  • MORGANHUNTER2MORGANHUNTER2 Posts: 4,473 ✭
    80-O= 62 tough to get a 3 or 4
    99-O= 64 tops
    04-O= 64 maybe a 5, but I see it as a 4.

    Not really worth sending in for grade unless you have a few freebies to use.

  • JJMJJM Posts: 8,039 ✭✭✭✭✭
    64-64-shot 65
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  • icsoccericsoccer Posts: 1,339 ✭✭✭
    80-o Genuine Rim Dinger is a loser
    other 2 64's although the last one I would have to see what all the black spots showing are as well as the foggy cheek...
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  • sweetwillietsweetwilliet Posts: 2,315 ✭✭✭
    62
    64
    65
    Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
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  • cheezhedcheezhed Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭✭✭
    63
    64CAC
    64CAC
    Many happy BST transactions
  • SeattleSlammerSeattleSlammer Posts: 10,032 ✭✭✭✭✭


    How anybody can call the 80-O a 62 is beyond me?!? Please show me all of your PCGS 62s that are as clean as this 80-O!!!


  • SamByrdSamByrd Posts: 3,131 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>How anybody can call the 80-O a 62 is beyond me?!? Please show me all of your PCGS 62s that are as clean as this 80-O!!! >>



    agreed but I wear glasses so I am no authority lol
  • metalmeistermetalmeister Posts: 4,587 ✭✭✭✭✭
    63
    64
    65
    email: ccacollectibles@yahoo.com

    100% Positive BST transactions
  • cinman14cinman14 Posts: 2,489 ✭


    << <i>How anybody can call the 80-O a 62 is beyond me?!? Please show me all of your PCGS 62s that are as clean as this 80-O!!! >>



    I have a few 62's that do not have a huge hit taken out of the rim. And it looks like there is graffiti above the right side feathers..

    JMHO
  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 23,357 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I do not see the 1880-O going higher than 63 and even 62 is possible on a bad day... the 99-O is not a 65 and I do like the 1904-O as a 65. I doubt that helps... but I think it is the most probable outcome

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • SeattleSlammerSeattleSlammer Posts: 10,032 ✭✭✭✭✭
    << How anybody can call the 80-O a 62 is beyond me?!? Please show me all of your PCGS 62s that are as clean as this 80-O!!! >>



    I have a few 62's that do not have a huge hit taken out of the rim. And it looks like there is graffiti above the right side feathers..



    I don't think that's graffiti.
    Remember also that these are BIG pics, exaggerating minor hits.

    Once again, please show me all of your PCGS 62s that are as clean as this 80-O.................



  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,162 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>How anybody can call the 80-O a 62 is beyond me?!? Please show me all of your PCGS 62s that are as clean as this 80-O!!! >>



    Morgans with impaired luster are absolutely slammed by the TPGs since so many with full flowing luster are around.
    Early Dollar Set
  • SeattleSlammerSeattleSlammer Posts: 10,032 ✭✭✭✭✭
    TDN, show me some!



    (seriously, regardless of luster, if anybody has some PCGS 62s that are this clean, I want to see them.....they could very well be out there, but this isn't the first time I've asked people to post some and received no examples..............................)

  • anablepanablep Posts: 5,137 ✭✭✭✭✭
    64
    63
    65

    I think they are nice, but too white for my tastes...

    image
    Always looking for attractive rim toned Morgan and Peace dollars in PCGS or (older) ANA/ANACS holders!

    "Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."


    ~Wayne
  • cinman14cinman14 Posts: 2,489 ✭


    << <i>TDN, show me some!



    (seriously, regardless of luster, if anybody has some PCGS 62s that are this clean, I want to see them.....they could very well be out there, but this isn't the first time I've asked people to post some and received no examples..............................) >>



    I think the pics are a little deceiving.. It's not as "clean" as you think..

    imageimage

    image
  • DennisHDennisH Posts: 13,996 ✭✭✭✭✭
    AU58
    MS64
    MS65
    When in doubt, don't.
  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 23,357 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The 1880-O is graded tight... the lustre needs to be very strong to get a 64. This coin does not exhibit what is required for a 64.

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • SeattleSlammerSeattleSlammer Posts: 10,032 ✭✭✭✭✭
    cinman14, nice try, but that baby has some pretty obvious gashes between the cheek and eye. I would hope it wouldn't go past 62.
    At least from DE59's pics, the 80-O has nothing that distracting on it....and certainly nothing big in the prime focal areas.

  • relicsncoinsrelicsncoins Posts: 8,030 ✭✭✭✭✭
    63
    64
    65
    Need a Barber Half with ANACS photo certificate. If you have one for sale please PM me. Current Ebay auctions
  • cinman14cinman14 Posts: 2,489 ✭


    << <i>cinman14, nice try, but that baby has some pretty obvious gashes between the cheek and eye. I would hope it wouldn't go past 62.
    At least from DE59's pics, the 80-O has nothing that distracting on it....and certainly nothing big in the prime focal areas. >>



    I was immediately drawn to the gouge on the rim. And as soon as I seen the reverse the initials H.S stood out above the feathers.

    But I guess this is why I only buy certified Morgans.. That way I don't have to guess...image
  • SeattleSlammerSeattleSlammer Posts: 10,032 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Now here's one that could cause problems:
    image

    PCGS 62.....currently on sale on Ebay

    image


  • cinman14cinman14 Posts: 2,489 ✭
    image
    image
    image
    image
  • golfer72golfer72 Posts: 3,588
    3,4,4
  • SeattleSlammerSeattleSlammer Posts: 10,032 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Much better, thanks cinman! image
    But I still see some sig hits on the first and third ones, and possibly on the second (although those are OGHs, too, and perhaps undergraded by today's standards).
    The last (86-S) sure does look clean for a 62!.........especially since the mirrors usually exaggerate hits. Most 62DMPLs don't look that good.


  • cinman14cinman14 Posts: 2,489 ✭
    I guess on the flip side.. I have seen worse in a 63 holder....image

    I just can't get over the rim ding and the reverse....image

    But then again, I don't really fully understand what they look for to make the grade..
  • garsmithgarsmith Posts: 5,894 ✭✭
    63
    64
    64
  • ConnecticoinConnecticoin Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭✭
    62, 64, 65.

    Like others said, the 04-O needs a full strike for a 66.
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  • DoubleEagle59DoubleEagle59 Posts: 8,341 ✭✭✭✭✭
    interesting discussion on what makes an ms62.

    regarding the graffitti on the 80-O, that is just an optical illusion caused by the photo.

    The marks are still there, but they are definitely not initials, just small surface 'ding' marks.
    "Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)

    "“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)

    "I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
  • cinman14cinman14 Posts: 2,489 ✭
    It is pretty cool how it looks like H.S image
  • direwolf1972direwolf1972 Posts: 2,076 ✭✭✭


    << <i>How anybody can call the 80-O a 62 is beyond me?!? Please show me all of your PCGS 62s that are as clean as this 80-O!!! >>



    I also think that the 80 O is going to go at least 62 or lower. They are super tough on 80 O's and with it having a rather flat luster I cant see them giving it MS63.

    I'll see your bunny with a pancake on his head and raise you a Siamese cat with a miniature pumpkin on his head.

    You wouldn't believe how long it took to get him to sit still for this.


  • kryptonitecomicskryptonitecomics Posts: 9,185 ✭
    MS63
    MS65
    MS65

    I may change my mind in hand due to the amount of luster but grading from a marks standpoint alone I think folks always grade too low on here. How folks can assess luster from the images is beyond me image
    Kryptonitecomics Ebay Auctions
  • TorinoCobra71TorinoCobra71 Posts: 8,054 ✭✭✭
    64's across the board.....

    image
  • direwolf1972direwolf1972 Posts: 2,076 ✭✭✭


    << <i>MS63
    MS65
    MS65

    I may change my mind in hand due to the amount of luster but grading from a marks standpoint alone I think folks always grade too low on here. How folks can assess luster from the images is beyond me image >>



    I am going under the assumption that the same lighting was used for all three coins.

    You dont think that the 80 O looks flat in comparison to the other two???

    If three coins are photo'd in the same lighting and two of them seem to have normal luster and the third looks flat that leads me to think that the flat looking one in fact does have less luster and a flat look to it.
    I'll see your bunny with a pancake on his head and raise you a Siamese cat with a miniature pumpkin on his head.

    You wouldn't believe how long it took to get him to sit still for this.


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