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PCGS Gave This 1909 Lincoln a 66BN Grade, Do You Agree...

OneCentOneCent Posts: 3,561 ✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
Do you concur with a 66BN grade and why?

imageimage

My coin, Sellers Pics.
Pop 7/0 (Brown Designation)







imageimage
Collector of Early 20th Century U.S. Coinage.
ANA Member R-3147111

Comments

  • mike92694mike92694 Posts: 1,068
    are you asking with the objective of going up or going down?
    looks like a nice brown coin, with a mark on the side of lincoln's face, but ... probably a 66

  • Steve27Steve27 Posts: 13,274 ✭✭✭
    A 66 usually only has one noticeable tick, that coin has three, so I would disagree.
    "It's far easier to fight for principles, than to live up to them." Adlai Stevenson
  • tahoe98tahoe98 Posts: 11,388 ✭✭✭


    ........jumps at me as a 65BN...................BUT! quite nice!image
    "government is not reason, it is not eloquence-it is a force! like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." George Washington
  • joecopperjoecopper Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭
    Is the spot carbon?, if so I would not agree with 66, but then again I could be wrong. I admit I have a hang up on carbon spots. Plus 2 or 3 of other fairly noticable nicks.
  • 19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,491 ✭✭✭✭
    Yes, I agree.

    Edited to add the why: Because PCGS says so.
    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
  • ksteelheaderksteelheader Posts: 11,777 ✭
    Yes, I agree, also.
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That seems to have an awful lot of red tinge to be just a brown. I was looking at a small group of original 1909 Reds this weekend just back from PCGS (64-66's) and most were quite mellowed. The grading seemed to be pretty much consistent and accurate. Too bad they were priced at 2X CDN.

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,421 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If offered to me as a 66 I would reject it.
    All glory is fleeting.
  • stinkinlincolnstinkinlincoln Posts: 2,733 ✭
    65RB.

    The spot should keep it out of a 66 holder, and way too much red for a Br only desig. JMO

  • LeeGLeeG Posts: 12,162 ✭
    Some great points brought up so far. image Not the best image to make reasonable assessments from, but I'll give it a shot. Can't tell if any lustre in this image. I'd say it's a given for the 66 grade from PCGS. Can't tell if the spot is carbon or not? I looked at some of my early Lincoln's and they have that same mark on the cheek so may be from the die? Some weakness in strike on the reverse around the "O" in ONE and E PLURIBUS.
  • stinkinlincolnstinkinlincoln Posts: 2,733 ✭
    Not sure if the spot Im talking about is the same as everyone else, so Ill just put it here which one Im speaking about.

    Theres a small spot on the left side of the field directly above L in Liberty.

    Also, theres a small gash on Lincolns bust, right above his beard on the cheekbone.

    Also looks to have a small staple scratch running up the bust.



    Please dont take any of that as me beating up this coin, Im not. Just stating what Im seeing.
    image


    Now, for the reverse.

    Looks like O of ONE has a small hit, and the O in OF has a small hit on the top of the letter.

  • icsoccericsoccer Posts: 1,339 ✭✭✭
    66 seems OK to me...brown mainly seems due to the reverse..
    image
    Successful BST transactions to date: Coindeuce, Cohodk, dantheman984, STONE, LeeG, jy8s, jkal, SeaEagleCoins, Hyperion, silverman68,Meltdown,RichieURich,savoyspecial,Barndog
  • SwampboySwampboy Posts: 13,025 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I love that cent.
    Beautiful.
    I'm leaning towards calling that one a 65 because of the carbon spot. Otherwise it sure looks like a 66 to me. I once started a thread about 66BNs and that's as nice as any I remember seeing.

    "Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    65BN.... however, the TPG graders are more experienced than I... so they are likely correct. Cheers, RickO
  • 66RB66RB Posts: 2,516 ✭✭✭
    The few, tiny hits are certainly commensurate with the 66 grade. The touch of flatness on the upper left reverse, which is usually a negative, is a normal progression of the wear the die takes from striking thousands and thousands of coins, and if there are other outstanding attributes of the coin this weakness can be cancelled out or overlooked. I'm also gonna guess that the spot along the rim above LIBERTY is not so prominent in-hand, as photos always tend to magnify imperfections. At times, with copper, the TPG's will either bump the designation or the grade, it looks to me like this one may have been a coin flip between 65RB and 66BN.

    I would have agreed with either grade, and I do really like that coin Pete, looks like it has nice sparkling luster!image
    Rob
    Lincoln set Colorless Set
    image
  • 19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,491 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>65BN.... however, the TPG graders are more experienced than I... so they are likely correct. Cheers, RickO >>



    At the very minimum, they are "financially" responsible for their consensus decision.
    With regard to that, I could state emphatically some other grade all day long but would my wallet back up the grade?
    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
  • mozeppamozeppa Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭
    It fails the 66 grade due to the "solidly struck" issue.

    the "O" in "ONE CENT" AND "E. PLURIBUS UNUM"....must be well struck up to even make a 65 ....look at it!...its weak!



    edit: it is nice ...just not a 66 or 65 maybe a 64.

    truley i have an "S-VDB" graded 63 r/b that looks better and far fewer ticks.


  • droopyddroopyd Posts: 5,381 ✭✭✭
    65BN at best. Too many "little things" going on.
    Me at the Springfield coin show:
    image
    60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
  • PCcoinsPCcoins Posts: 3,354 ✭✭✭
    Must be the luster that bumped it up a point!
    "It is what it is."
  • SeattleSlammerSeattleSlammer Posts: 10,032 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If offered to me as a 66 I would reject it.


    291fifth, I'm shocked!
  • DropdaflagDropdaflag Posts: 808 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I like the coin. Some here do not. It really only matters what the OP thinks. If you like it, keep it. If you don't, send it back or sell it and get one you do like.

    https://www.smallcopperguy.com

  • OneCentOneCent Posts: 3,561 ✭
    Appreciate the opinions. Not much of a consensus here other than some agree with the grade, more than a few don't.

    My opinion is that the coin has the technical merits for a 66, although barely. I think that the exceptional luster and eye-appeal for a brown example of the date carried the coin to a 66. Otherwise, it would have been graded a 65. There is a carbon spot but it is miniscule and the O of One on the reverse is not as flat as the photo may suggest.

    image


    I happen to like the coin and find it to be a very high-end example of a Mint State Brown Lincoln.

    imageimage
    Collector of Early 20th Century U.S. Coinage.
    ANA Member R-3147111
  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 23,357 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think a 66 Brown needs to be seen in hand first

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • ACactionsACactions Posts: 372
    that was a nice pick up off the bay. I was watching the coin and spoke to the owner a few times but the carbon spot kept me off of it...
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,162 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>My opinion is that the coin has the technical merits for a 66, although barely.


    I happen to like the coin and find it to be a very high-end example of a Mint State Brown Lincoln. >>



    Make up your mind - which is it? image
    Early Dollar Set
  • OneCentOneCent Posts: 3,561 ✭


    << <i>

    << <i>My opinion is that the coin has the technical merits for a 66, although barely.


    I happen to like the coin and find it to be a very high-end example of a Mint State Brown Lincoln. >>



    Make up your mind - which is it? image >>





    image Yes, my observations were contradictory so I will try again.


    I am extremely pleased with my purchase of this coin and I believe that it fits the PCGS definition of an MS66 Brown Lincoln.


    Sheesh, guy must be a lawyer. image


    imageimage
    Collector of Early 20th Century U.S. Coinage.
    ANA Member R-3147111
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,441 ✭✭✭✭✭
    pi_tures sure don't do _ _oin justice.

    fill in the blanks
  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 23,357 ✭✭✭✭✭
    How is doing the cross on this anyway?image

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • golfer72golfer72 Posts: 3,588
    65 BN
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,284 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Appreciate the opinions. Not much of a consensus here other than some agree with the grade, more than a few don't.

    My opinion is that the coin has the technical merits for a 66, although barely. I think that the exceptional luster and eye-appeal for a brown example of the date carried the coin to a 66. Otherwise, it would have been graded a 65. There is a carbon spot but it is miniscule and the O of One on the reverse is not as flat as the photo may suggest.

    image


    I happen to like the coin and find it to be a very high-end example of a Mint State Brown Lincoln. >>




    I actually "made" this coin in May 2008. Honestly I was surprised at the 66 grade, thinking a solid 65 instead. Luster is very good.

    This is my grade report. 1 1 12616409 2429 1909 1C Lincoln US MS66BN
    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • droopyddroopyd Posts: 5,381 ✭✭✭


    << <i>[ Luster is very good. >>



    Unfortunately it doesn't show in the photos.
    Me at the Springfield coin show:
    image
    60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
  • TomBTomB Posts: 21,456 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I grade coins myself and then check the TPG label to see if the TPG agrees with me. My interpretation of these images makes me believe that I could view that coin 100 times and never come up with a grade as high as 66.
    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • commoncents123commoncents123 Posts: 2,648 ✭
    I like it as a 65BN myself
  • eggboneeggbone Posts: 615 ✭
    I think 66 is generous. Lots of hits; tics; flics.
    Not enough red for RB.

    image
  • tightbudgettightbudget Posts: 7,299 ✭✭✭
    I like it more as a 65BN.
  • CoppercolorCoppercolor Posts: 1,475 ✭✭✭
    65BN

    My observation of all the 66BN lincolns I've seen is that they have the surface preservation of at least a 67/68RD (hits, carbon, rub, luster). That means they've had standout strike, standout luster, and have few or no ticks or hits or scratches and zero noticable carbon, zero. A number of them also had standout toning. There is a much larger range in 65 though and so I think this fits in there mostly limited by the carbon speck and the mellowing of the surfaces which I'm guessing i see evidence of in the photos.

    Jeff
    I'd like my copper well done please!
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,219 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There are a few too many marks to call this an MS-66 IMO. I'd grade it MS-65.

    NGC graded this one MS-65, red. I like it more.

    imageimage
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • OneCentOneCent Posts: 3,561 ✭


    << <i>I grade coins myself and then check the TPG label to see if the TPG agrees with me. My interpretation of these images makes me believe that I could view that coin 100 times and never come up with a grade as high as 66. >>




    While that may be the case and I do appreciate your informed opinion, at least 2 out of 3 professional graders concurred that the coin met the standards of a PCGS 66 Brown Lincoln.
    imageimage
    Collector of Early 20th Century U.S. Coinage.
    ANA Member R-3147111
  • TomBTomB Posts: 21,456 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I grade coins myself and then check the TPG label to see if the TPG agrees with me. My interpretation of these images makes me believe that I could view that coin 100 times and never come up with a grade as high as 66. >>




    While that may be the case and I do appreciate your informed opinion, at least 2 out of 3 professional graders concurred that the coin met the standards of a PCGS 66 Brown Lincoln. >>


    That's okay. Not only are the PCGS standards sometimes more lax than mine, but the PCGS graders don't always get it right.
    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image

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