What should I get next - UHR or other U.S. gold coin for daughter

Moonbiter · July 24, 2009 3:48AM

Ok, I've hit a wall with what to get my daughter next, An Ultra High Relief from the mint or some other U.S. gold coin. Right now I've been shifting from buying bonds for my daughter to buying gold (I have ZERO confidence in the economy atm). After finding out that the bonds are 30 year type, I've shifted to U.S. gold coins for her. I already have an 1856 N/M PCGS AU-50 tagged for her also, but I have some more money to spend on her and was considering the UHR. However I'm not sure if the price on that piece is going to yo-yo around with the price of gold, or if a small enough will be minted for it to actually hold value close to what I would pay for it. I know my daughter would love the UHR because it's shiny and pretty, but she like any gold and I could buy some very nice pieces that would not lose to much if any value over the years.

If you had to make a choice, what road would you travel? I can still get other U.S. gold coins even if I purchase the UHR for her. Her current gold collection is as follows, all purchased by her.

1/10th oz American Eagle
1/10th oz Australian (Year of the Dragon)
1844 N/M PCGS AU-53
1882-S ANACS MS-61

adamlaneus · July 24, 2009 3:54AM

Get her a kilogram Silver coin.

Let her know that there is another metal for coinage. And give her a coin that requires two hands to hold.

Kilo kook

Robb · July 24, 2009 3:54AM

Because you compared the coins to bonds I'm assuming that this is more for investing than collecting. If that is the case, I would go the bullion route.

Moonbiter · July 24, 2009 4:04AM

It's not really an investment per say. If she wants to sell or keep them later that is fine. Instead of me getting her what I consider potentially worthless paper, I want to get her something that will have value down the road. I'm not looking for anything to rise in value after 15 years, but at least be somewhat steady. My daughter is a YN so she enjoys coins.

HalfStrike · July 24, 2009 4:13AM

1/10 certified gold panda to fit with the others.

Longacre · July 24, 2009 4:13AM

Personally, I would get a generic numismatic gold coin, like the slightly better date $20 Libs or $20 Saints, which don't trade for much of a premium over the common dates. I will leave it to the experts in those series to suggest the dates to get (I did a thread on this about a year ago, but I cannot seem to find it).

zeebob · July 24, 2009 4:58AM

If you want gold for the sake of holding gold bullion, Krugerands trade the closest to spot of any of the issues (so I'm told)

I can't remember which is next, but I have purchased AU-55 and AU-58 US gold at spot or slightly above. There is a slight numismatic value there, but mostly the gold value. Common date US gold in AU is treated mostly as bullion unless you find just the right buyer that needs the coin for a type set or year set, then they'll pay a bit over spot.

I have two sets of Chinese gold pandas set aside for my daughter. One is from the year we adopted her (important to me), one is from her birth year (presumably important to her).

I have paid to slab all of these so that if my wife or daughter has to sell them (with out me) then there will be less change some unscrupulous dealer (yes, yes, I know most dealers are saints) will rip off my loved ones with the line of "oh its too bad these are counterfeit."

While I have no interest in this last option... I have seen damaged gold in genuine PCGS holders trade for less than spot. This might be a good way to pick up gold below melt and then resell it latter as scrap.

The folks on the PM forum probably have some good ideas and interesting opinions on the whole subject of gold as an investment.

Edited for grammar.

ttown · July 24, 2009 5:50AM

Start her collecting the modern $5 gold comm's, most are near spot and even the less common ones aren't really that high in the series. I like changing designs in coins.

DorkGirl · July 24, 2009 5:55AM

Ask her.......maybe she would surprise you.

Moonbiter · July 24, 2009 11:24AM

I think I'm going to get her the UHR and a $20 Lib or Saint along with the 1856 $5 I'll be getting soon.

drfish · July 24, 2009 1:23PM

For the price of the UHR you could get a PCGS/NGC ms61-62 Indian $5 and $10 off Heritage or ebay.Close to an ounce and much cooler US coins.Another favorite is a earlier date Mexican 50 gold pesos-1.2 ounces of gold certified ms63/64 for less than a UHR-check out Broken cc coins for these in PCGS holders

MsMorrisine · July 24, 2009 1:28PM

<< Because you compared the coins to bonds I'm assuming that this is more for investing than collecting. If that is the case, I would go the bullion route. >>

I agree, or a fund that holds physical.

MsMorrisine · July 24, 2009 1:29PM

<< Ask her.......maybe she would surprise you.

>>

so true!

but leave out that economy stuff.

JungleFever · July 25, 2009 4:01AM

<< For the price of the UHR you could get a PCGS/NGC ms61-62 Indian $5 and $10 off Heritage or ebay.Close to an ounce and much cooler US coins.Another favorite is a earlier date Mexican 50 gold pesos-1.2 ounces of gold certified ms63/64 for less than a UHR-check out Broken cc coins for these in PCGS holders >>

Once again, I have to say that the UHR may be pretty to look at, but the premium is silly. $500 over spot is just goofy.

As a collector/investor of gold coins, I wouldn't own one. Libs/Saints/GAE all good value, common dates.

OTOH, for fun, I'm going to collect one each of the US gold type coins the remainder of this year, just to have something else to look at

JungleFever · July 25, 2009 4:28AM

Would this be too much trouble for your YN daughter to enjoy........500 coins to a box?? Takes up very little space in your house.

Foxer · July 25, 2009 4:34AM

Maybe some first spouse gold coins? You can find the older ones for near melt.

Being your daughter she might relate better to those coins.

OPA · July 25, 2009 4:52AM

<< Once again, I have to say that the UHR may be pretty to look at, but the premium is silly. $500 over spot is just goofy. >>

I have no idea from whom you've been buying your UHR's ... the premium is and has been, about $300 over spot from the Mint, and as far as I'm concerned, much nicer looking than the generic so called classic double eagles.

US Mint

DennisH · July 25, 2009 4:59AM

Get her a $50 California territorial "slug" from the 1850s.

BillJones · July 25, 2009 5:18AM

The last I heard the mintage on the Ultra High Relief was getting pretty high and the mint was getting ready to drop the ordering restrictions. I think that the premium is too high over melt and that it come down if people keep buying them. I'd look to more generic gold with a smaller premium over melt.

CollectorMan · July 25, 2009 5:26AM

I say get her a nice $20 St. Gaudens ranging from AU to MS 64. Stay with a common date this first time, so as to wet her appetite. She and you will love it.

PerryHall · July 25, 2009 10:21AM

<< I say get her a nice $20 St. Gaudens ranging from AU to MS 64. Stay with a common date this first time, so as to wet her appetite. She and you will love it. >>

Agree. An MS63/64 Saint would be a good choice.

stinkinlincoln · July 25, 2009 10:28AM

Fist Spouse Proof. The one with Miss Liberty gracing the obverse...

JungleFever · July 25, 2009 2:29PM

<< 

<< Once again, I have to say that the UHR may be pretty to look at, but the premium is silly. $500 over spot is just goofy. >>

I have no idea from whom you've been buying your UHR's ... the premium is and has been, about $300 over spot from the Mint, and as far as I'm concerned, much nicer looking than the generic so called classic double eagles. US Mint >>

Haven't bought a UHR........$350 over spot at the mint today....around $500 on ebay selling ok.

I'm with you 100%, the Am. Eagle is not a piece of art like the UHR. Sometimes you buy art and the premium doesn't matter.....esp if it's for your daughter. It appears to
be holding the 'art spread' well in this economy, too.

Best........

GAT · July 25, 2009 2:53PM

You can buy a lot of rarity in dark side gold near melt which is where I am purchasing. Premiums are just too high on common date U.S. gold.

derryb · July 25, 2009 3:36PM

California state IOU would be something unique

DIMEMAN · July 25, 2009 4:00PM

Anything but bullion!!!!!

JungleFever · July 27, 2009 4:03AM

<< You can buy a lot of rarity in dark side gold near melt which is where I am purchasing. Premiums are just too high on common date U.S. gold. >>

What is dark side gold ??????

thanks.....

Norseman88 · August 19, 2009 10:33AM

I saw a really neat Moby Dick 55.6 oz. proof Silver coin at my local dealer's shop. I can't remember which country issued it but the big white whale was on the front and captain Ahab and his crew were in a whale boat on the back, perhaps this is something that might interest her???

coindeuce · August 19, 2009 10:51AM

If you're quite serious about projecting a fifteen year hold, I'm quite serious about recommending a Three Dollar Gold type. With the exception of the 1854 Dahlonega issue, the unique 1870-S and the Proof issues, they are all obtainable and are strong performers in the market of the past two decades.

tightbudget · August 19, 2009 10:53AM

Generic MS Saint. I have one of those UHRs and they look blah.

Spiff · October 1, 2009 6:57AM

Maybe you need glasses then.. The UHR is easily the best gold coin out there and the most beautiful. Why would he want to piss his money away on the old double eagles that isn't nearly as nice as the new ones? If he is certain his daughter would love the new one and ( who wouldn't ) then why would the UHR not be the obvious choice? Especially considering he mentioned he can afford the high premium for this coin. Plus it comes with with a gorgeous book and display box... IMO if your buying for someone who loves gold and gold coins then he knows what the answer is..

Sure he can wait till the mint stops making them and then hope and expect (like some others) that the value of the UHR to magically crash in value in a year or two (like our crappy dollar) and just buy a ms70 for the price of melt value RIGHT!?!!??! Yeah that makes plenty of sense to me...

RYK · October 1, 2009 7:01AM

<< Maybe you need glasses then.. The UHR is easily the best gold coin out there and the most beautiful. Why would he want to piss his money away on the old double eagles that isn't nearly as nice as the new ones? If he is certain his daughter would love the new one and ( who wouldn't ) then why would the UHR not be the obvious choice? Especially considering he mentioned he can afford the high premium for this coin. Plus it comes with with a gorgeous book and display box... IMO if your buying for someone who loves gold and gold coins then he knows what the answer is..

Sure he can wait till the mint stops making them and then hope and expect (like some others) that the value of the UHR to magically crash in value in a year or two (like our crappy dollar) and just buy a ms70 for the price of melt value RIGHT!?!!??! Yeah that makes plenty of sense to me... >>

Spiff, out of curiosity, how many UHRs do you own?

telephoto1 · October 1, 2009 7:10AM

<< 

<< Once again, I have to say that the UHR may be pretty to look at, but the premium is silly. $500 over spot is just goofy. >>

I have no idea from whom you've been buying your UHR's ... the premium is and has been, about $300 over spot from the Mint, and as far as I'm concerned, much nicer looking than the generic so called classic double eagles. >>

I wonder if he'll still think they're nice when he finds he can only get spot or not much over for one when he goes to sell these overrated and overpriced bullion issues...

OP, I'd get her a nice $20 Saint rather than a bullion piece... but if you still want to go bullion (or not much over) for a young girl, she might like the first spouse pieces... or perhaps another smaller gold type coin. I'd definitely wait on the UHR, especially at spot + $300...after christmas they'll be available on the aftermarket at much cheaper premiums over spot.

And I don't buy things based on how pretty the book and display box happen to be, because they won't bring you one cent extra when it comes time to liquidate.

JupitarCoins · October 1, 2009 7:19AM

<< 

<< Maybe you need glasses then.. The UHR is easily the best gold coin out there and the most beautiful. Why would he want to piss his money away on the old double eagles that isn't nearly as nice as the new ones? If he is certain his daughter would love the new one and ( who wouldn't ) then why would the UHR not be the obvious choice? Especially considering he mentioned he can afford the high premium for this coin. Plus it comes with with a gorgeous book and display box... IMO if your buying for someone who loves gold and gold coins then he knows what the answer is..

Sure he can wait till the mint stops making them and then hope and expect (like some others) that the value of the UHR to magically crash in value in a year or two (like our crappy dollar) and just buy a ms70 for the price of melt value RIGHT!?!!??! Yeah that makes plenty of sense to me... >>

Spiff, out of curiosity, how many UHRs do you own? >>

I bet he owns none.

PerryHall · October 1, 2009 7:23AM

<< Spiff, out of curiosity, how many UHRs do you own? >>

I bet he owns none.

>>

What difference does it make? Isn't he entitled to express an opinion?

RYK · October 1, 2009 7:44AM

<< 

<< Spiff, out of curiosity, how many UHRs do you own? >>

I bet he owns none.

>>

What difference does it make? Isn't he entitled to express an opinion? >>

Sure, a newcomer comes and bumps a 6 week old thread with a rather abrasive tone and dogmatic rhetoric, and it does not matter what his position is? Okay, if you say so.

Edit: Actually, anytime anyone voices such a strong recommendation, it is wise to know their position.

PerryHall · October 1, 2009 7:46AM

I suggested a traditional slabbed Saint but the UHR wouldn't be a bad choice.

telephoto1 · October 1, 2009 8:18AM

I'm in the "it makes no difference" camp personally, but... If I was a betting man, I'd bet Spiff owns at least one UHR... he's obviously hoping the prices stay strong. He could also be a mint employee I suppose...

illini420 · October 1, 2009 8:27AM

<< Fist Spouse Proof. The one with Miss Liberty gracing the obverse... >>

That would be my vote. You can get a Jefferson's Liberty for near melt... the others, Jackson and Van Buren will probably cost 10%+ over melt.

JazzmanJAB · October 1, 2009 10:08AM

Or wait for the 2009 Buffalo.

BloodMan · October 1, 2009 11:01AM

Better date Type 3 Liberty Head Twenties in AU58 would be a good choice. The more common date Type 2’s in AU58 are another option. Expect to pay about $100-$200 over spot. When deciding on a double eagle, you need to be choosy since AU58 coins in this series can look very different. Some have large, distracting bag marks, others look like MS62 coins with a touch of wear on the high points.

Type 3 Libs range from very rare (many Philadelphia dates in the 1880’s) to very common (1904, 1900, 1907, 1899, 1894-97, 1904-S and 1898-S).

Better dates that you might find in AU at a reasonable price over spot include: 1906, 1905, 1898, 1890, 1890-S, 1889-S, 1889, 1888, 1887-S, 1882-S, 1881-S, 1880-S, 1879, 1879-S, 1878, 1878-S, 1877, and 1877-S.
1902 and 1880 would be out of reach in nice AU for less than $200 over spot.

Spiff · October 1, 2009 1:31PM

<< Or wait for the 2009 Buffalo. >>

good choice!! maybe a proof if they ever make some this year..

Spiff · October 1, 2009 2:47PM

RYK I own 3 of UHR so far 1 ms70, and 2ms69 and I'm hoping to scrape up enough change to get one more before the mint is done with them but i doubt that will happen..

Sorry to be a bit snappy in prveious posts but to be honest. I'm slightly just really suprsied by the fact that some people really think this coin will be utterly worthless in the future just because it has a mintage of over 80 to 90k+..
Don't get me wrong people are definetly intitled to there own opinions but I just don't see how anyone would want any of the old double eagles out there besides maybe the super rare dates like the 1933s or 1907s as opposed to owning this one, when it has so much potential and historical significance and best of all some of us have waited many many years for the mint to finally be able to make the UHR $20 as Augustus and Rosevelt intended and (never thought we would live to see the day) and because the mint managed to pull off mastering the high relief of the coin (even though it took them over 100 years to do so) that it's just another coin and will be valueless in the future..

I know the book and box obviosuly means nothing as far as adding value to the coin but please correct me if im wrong but I'm pretty sure the mint doesn't usally add all the bells and whistles and a big opening ceramony for any coin or replica for that matter... I know some of you may think (well gee Spiff ever heard of a marketing scheme or hype ) well sure but maybe others have forgetten why they are in this hobby to begin with...

Sorry for Rambling!! I just need to vent a little..

Artist · October 1, 2009 3:46PM

I do not think the mintage will matter much on the UHR - it will always be a popular coin just like the originals.

If I were going to spend $1.5K on a gold coin for my daughter, what would I get? I would probably buy something old - but I would connect it to her world somehow - for example, I just took her to the Ronald Reagan library this past weekend and she really enjoyed herself, so maybe I would get her a Saint from 1911 so that I could tell her it was made the year he was born - or maybe a 1903 Liberty which was made the year the first airplane flew - something like that.

What should I get next - UHR or other U.S. gold coin for daughter

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