Not a genuine coin and seller won't agree.
konsole
Posts: 795 ✭✭✭
I messaged the seller telling them that this is not a genuine mint struck coin from 1911 seeing how it doesnt look like they sell that many coins, atleast gold coins anyway. I thought it might be possible they just didnt know.
ebay auction
What does it look like to you guys. A terrible fake or a third party legal reproduction or what?
ebay auction
What does it look like to you guys. A terrible fake or a third party legal reproduction or what?
0
Comments
peacockcoins
Highly polished ex-jewelery.
Dan
<< <i>The coin looks real to me..........
Highly polished ex-jewelery.
Dan >>
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
<< <i>IF real, it's a heavily re-engraved, heavily polished ex-jewerly piece. >>
ya thats probably it.
heres an auction for what looks like an authentic "seemingly untouched" of the same piece.
real 1911 $5?
hes selling it as authentic which it probably is but he doesnt feel the need to mention that it has been heavily re-engraved (to hide its wear) and polished.
Dear cardsandcoins,
it was not....
- wedgles303
Let the seller deal with some other unhappy buyer...
"Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."
~Wayne
<< <i>Dear cardsandcoins,
it was not....
- wedgles303 >>
Hahaha. E-mail him back "it was"
Have him weigh it, it appears that with that much retooling he could have lost a couple pounds(or grains)
<< <i>IF real, it's a heavily re-engraved, heavily polished ex-jewelry piece. >>
Agree. I wouldn't even pay melt for that POS.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>The seller said that the reason why their coin looks difference from the other coin is because his coin is simply more "worn" and was used as a pendant, LOL
hes selling it as authentic which it probably is but he doesnt feel the need to mention that it has been heavily re-engraved (to hide its wear) and polished. >>
eBay is a free market environment where many different sellers have many different agenda's which all revolve around making money. If the seller on this particular coin has little knowledge with regard to selling coins yet wishes to extract as high a possible return on the sale, why should he modify his auction to meet your needs? After all, your original message to the seller has already been shot down.
"I messaged the seller telling them that this is not a genuine mint struck coin from 1911"
The coin has obviously been messed with so you should probably just leave it alone. The item will sell itself for its own price.
The name is LEE!
(Yeah, I know it's "Wedgle's", but first impression was to the contrary, and it just sounds better.)
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Yet, people seem to be saying it does appear to be genuine and is "just" a problem coin. So, did you apologize to the seller for getting on him for the authenticity of the coin?
(then you can always harp on a problem coin being sold, if you want, but that's a different story
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>
<< <i>The seller said that the reason why their coin looks difference from the other coin is because his coin is simply more "worn" and was used as a pendant, LOL
hes selling it as authentic which it probably is but he doesnt feel the need to mention that it has been heavily re-engraved (to hide its wear) and polished. >>
eBay is a free market environment where many different sellers have many different agenda's which all revolve around making money. If the seller on this particular coin has little knowledge with regard to selling coins yet wishes to extract as high a possible return on the sale, why should he modify his auction to meet your needs? After all, your original message to the seller has already been shot down.
"I messaged the seller telling them that this is not a genuine mint struck coin from 1911"
The coin has obviously been messed with so you should probably just leave it alone. The item will sell itself for its own price. >>
Exactly!!!
<< <i>Thread Title: Not a genuine coin and seller won't agree.
Yet, people seem to be saying it does appear to be genuine and is "just" a problem coin. So, did you apologize to the seller for getting on him for the authenticity of the coin?
(then you can always harp on a problem coin being sold, if you want, but that's a different story
Ya I guess he can call it an authentic 1911 $5 gold, atleast the coins former self. Then denying that the coin had been altered to me just screams deception.
<< <i>
<< <i>Thread Title: Not a genuine coin and seller won't agree.
Yet, people seem to be saying it does appear to be genuine and is "just" a problem coin. So, did you apologize to the seller for getting on him for the authenticity of the coin?
(then you can always harp on a problem coin being sold, if you want, but that's a different story
Ya I guess he can call it an authentic 1911 $5 gold, atleast the coins former self. Then denying that the coin had been altered to me just screams deception. >>
Explain how it has been altered.
that you are interested in the coin?
if not what is your interest?
<< <i>re-engraved, polished ex-jewelry. It has a good shot at being genuine. >>
I highly doubt re-engraving. The devices are incuse, are they not??
Again, JMO, but that's the way it looks to me.
Will’sProoflikes
<< <i>
<< IF real, it's a heavily re-engraved, heavily polished ex-jewelry piece. >>
Agree. I wouldn't even pay melt for that POS. >>
<< <i>To me, it does appear re-engraved, though this is nowhere near my series. Look at the depth of incusity (hey, I just trademarked that word), and it looks much greater on the obverse than the reverse, from the pics.
Again, JMO, but that's the way it looks to me. >>
Well, if it was on a pendant, the chances are that one side was usually worn out, thus making for more wear on one side than the other.
<< <i>Well, if it was on a pendant, the chances are that one side was usually worn out, thus making for more wear on one side than the other. >>
I doubt use in a pendant made the feathers and stars deeper and more detailed. Nor would pendant use make the date look like it was drawn on the coin by a child. The re-engraving is quite obvious on this piece.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>Here's one for comparison-
Now add the e-bay version:
My take is either fake or altered surfaces. If it is altered surfaces the old surface was completely destroyed to tool those god awful lines into it.
and thinking of suing anyone thought that it represented how I engraved the coin.
If it's gold, and not in a PCGS/NGC/ANACS holder, I PASS.
<< <i>How could anyone who knows what this type of coin looks like view that POS and think the lines in the feathers are anything but reengraved? If I were Bela Pratt, the designer, I'd be crying about the coin ...
and thinking of suing anyone thought that it represented how I engraved the coin.
Yes its exactly like a couple people have said, a good portion of the obverse is re-engraved and heavily polished. The headdress and the star alterations are waaaaay too obvious with the broadened/deppened lines in the headdress and the completely dugout stars, along with a good portion of the rest of the obverse. The reverse looks like it may have just seen the heavy polishing/cleaning.
If it kinda baffling me how people in here with thousands of posts don't see anything wrong with the coin.
My original concern here is about a seller selling something that has had heavy alterations yet they don't want to admit the coin has had anything done to it. It's not really a big deal since it doesnt appear that they consistently sell coins.
Not an expert on the type either but it seems to be way off in regards to the date not all there and the stars around the inside of the rim.Now maybe being worn as jewelry would explain that but I would rather spend my money on a coin that has all these things intact.Just MHO
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
I bought a Bust half that was advertised as a experimental reeded edge. I know someone at one time took bits out of the edge coin with a file.
<< <i>Ya I guess he can call it an authentic 1911 $5 gold, atleast the coins former self. Then denying that the coin had been altered to me just screams deception. >>
I don't think it's fair to jump to conclusions that the seller is being intentionally deceptive here. Judging by his other listings, it is obvious that coins are not his specialty. From the seller's point of view, the idea that someone would purposely re-engraved a coin probably doesn't make any logical sense to him, which is why he was so quick to dismiss the accusation. Perhaps it would be more helpful if you gave the seller a detailed explanation as to how you came to the conclusion that the coin was re-engraved, rather than just making a one-sentence assertion.
<< <i>
<< <i>How could anyone who knows what this type of coin looks like view that POS and think the lines in the feathers are anything but reengraved? If I were Bela Pratt, the designer, I'd be crying about the coin ...
and thinking of suing anyone thought that it represented how I engraved the coin.
Yes its exactly like a couple people have said, a good portion of the obverse is re-engraved and heavily polished. The headdress and the star alterations are waaaaay too obvious with the broadened/deppened lines in the headdress and the completely dugout stars, along with a good portion of the rest of the obverse. The reverse looks like it may have just seen the heavy polishing/cleaning.
If it kinda baffling me how people in here with thousands of posts don't see anything wrong with the coin.
My original concern here is about a seller selling something that has had heavy alterations yet they don't want to admit the coin has had anything done to it. It's not really a big deal since it doesnt appear that they consistently sell coins. >>
Here's the thing as I looked at the auction.....you are looking at it, I believe, from a numismatic POV. I see it being sold as " a 5 dollar gold coin". I hear "it is in very good condition" and "the mint can be seen" (or something along that line).
I don't hear "it is a VF30", or even "G4". I don't hear anything about price guides nor TPGS.
Now, this part may be blasphemy for some to hear, but I think it could look good to a person who wants it as a pocket piece or jewelry piece (which is previously was it appears), and can get it for a good price (melt or less) and who likes the look. In that case, so what if it were tooled/re-engraved to make the feathers stand out more...it is already out of numismatic contention, right?
So, given that, IF that is the thought behind it, how should the seller sell the coin to make people happy? Particularly if they aren't into coins much or just recognize that a good picture will sell it for what it's worth without a lot of work on their part to uncover more? They likely paid a bit behind melt themselves, so they will still make money with a quick flip.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>How could anyone who knows what this type of coin looks like view that POS and think the lines in the feathers are anything but reengraved? If I were Bela Pratt, the designer, I'd be crying about the coin ...
and thinking of suing anyone thought that it represented how I engraved the coin.
Yes its exactly like a couple people have said, a good portion of the obverse is re-engraved and heavily polished. The headdress and the star alterations are waaaaay too obvious with the broadened/deppened lines in the headdress and the completely dugout stars, along with a good portion of the rest of the obverse. The reverse looks like it may have just seen the heavy polishing/cleaning.
If it kinda baffling me how people in here with thousands of posts don't see anything wrong with the coin.
My original concern here is about a seller selling something that has had heavy alterations yet they don't want to admit the coin has had anything done to it. It's not really a big deal since it doesnt appear that they consistently sell coins. >>
<< <i>If it kinda baffling me how people in here with thousands of posts don't see anything wrong with the coin. >>
I'll admit, I can see where it has been altered, after someone put up pics for comparison. It's kinda baffling to me how you feel that post count could mean that someone should be an expert on everything.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>The coin looks real to me..........
Highly polished ex-jewelery.
Dan >>
me too
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
<< <i>The coin is a POS, but how anyone here can be 100% certain that it is not authentic is beyond me. Additionally, the seller guarantees authenticity, and there is a return privilege if you do not like it. There are much bigger fish to fry on ebay than this one. If I were looking to save the world, this ebay auction is not where I would start. >>
A little gold talk will drive the RYKster out from lurking. Nice hearing from an expert on the subject.
<< <i>
<< <i>The coin is a POS, but how anyone here can be 100% certain that it is not authentic is beyond me. Additionally, the seller guarantees authenticity, and there is a return privilege if you do not like it. There are much bigger fish to fry on ebay than this one. If I were looking to save the world, this ebay auction is not where I would start. >>
A little gold talk will drive the RYKster out from lurking. Nice hearing from an expert on the subject. >>
Actually, I have very little experience with Indian gold, but from a practical standpoint, this is a relatively low risk situation, IMO. Crappy coin? Yes. Huge rip-off? Does not look that way.
BTW, if you found the coin, acquired it as part of a larger deal, or your four year old took your MS-65 Indian $5 and turned it into that, what would you do with it?